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Richard Nelson, photo taken at his home on February 20, 2014; Richard Nelson and his musical group ; The New Zion Community Advocates worked with community members age 80 years and older to have contributed to the history of Ogden city. The interviews looked at the legacy of the interviewees through armed services, work, social life, church, NAACP and educational systems in an environment where their culture was not predominant. This program has received funding from the Utah Humanities Council and the Utah Division of State history. ; The following is an oral history interview with Richard Nelson, conducted on February 20, 2014 by Deborah George. ; 30p.; 29cm.; 2 bound transcripts; 4 file folders. 1 sound disc: digital; 4 3/4 in. ; Oral History Program Richard Nelson Interviewed by Deborah M. George 20 February 2014 Oral History Program Weber State University Stewart Library Ogden, Utah Richard Nelson Interviewed by Deborah M. George 20 February 2014 Copyright © 2014 by Weber State University, Stewart Library Mission Statement The Oral History Program of the Stewart Library was created to preserve the institutional history of Weber State University and the Davis, Ogden and Weber County communities. By conducting carefully researched, recorded, and transcribed interviews, the Oral History Program creates archival oral histories intended for the widest possible use. Interviews are conducted with the goal of eliciting from each participant a full and accurate account of events. The interviews are transcribed, edited for accuracy and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewees (as available), who are encouraged to augment or correct their spoken words. The reviewed and corrected transcripts are indexed, printed, and bound with photographs and illustrative materials as available. Archival copies are placed in Special Collections. The Stewart Library also houses the original recording so researchers can gain a sense of the interviewee's voice and intonations. Project Description The New Zion Community Advocates worked with community members age 80 years and older to have contributed to the history of Ogden city. The interviews looked at the legacy of the interviewees through armed services, work, social life, church, NAACP and educational systems in an environment where their culture was not predominant. This program has received funding from the Utah Humanities Council and the Utah Division of State history. ____________________________________ Oral history is a method of collecting historical information through recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account. It reflects personal opinion offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ____________________________________ Rights Management Special Collections All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to the Stewart Library of Weber State University. No part of the manuscript may be published without the written permission of the University Librarian. Requests for permission to publish should be addressed to the Administration Office, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, Utah, 84408. The request should include identification of the specific item and identification of the user. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Nelson, Richard, an oral history by Deborah M. George, 20 February 2014, WSU Stewart Library Oral History Program, Special Collections, Stewart Library, Weber State University, Ogden, UT. iii Richard Nelson, photo taken at his home on February 20, 2014 Richard Nelson and his musical group Abstract: The following is an oral history interview with Richard Nelson, conducted on February 20, 2014 by Deborah George. DG: Alright we're in the home of Richard Nelson today and we're going to find out how he came to Ogden. So the first thing we want you to tell us is what is your name, full name? RN: My name is Richard Nelson. DG: And when were you born? RN: I was born April the 14th 1923. DG: Okay and how are we related? We usually ask that question because sometimes we have relatives interviewing relatives. RN: Yeah, I'm not related to you. DG: And what are you doing now? RN: Nothing, I'm retired and just going different places, enjoying myself. DG: Okay can you tell us about some of the important lessons you learned in life? RN: What kind of lessons? DG: Just any kind of lesson you want to share. RN: Well here in Utah you mean? DG: Just life in general. RN: Okay, before I got here I went to Detroit, Michigan. I worked at Ford Motor Company and my brother Jesse was a Barber here in Utah. He asked me, why don't you come to Utah? You can get a good job. I said okay, so I got a ticket on the Greyhound bus and was on my way to Utah. I got here on the 16th of October 1 1952. I went to Ogden on the next day on October 17th and went 24th street, where I completed an application for the Hill Air Force Base. So I got there and was interviewed for the job the next day and I started working on October 17th. Yes, the next day I got here I got a job at Hill Air Force Base and that's where I started working. After I was hired they sent me back to 24th Street. That's when the office/administration building was there. They sent me from there to Hill Air Force Base and my old mean supervisor was named Arley Bitton. The Office/Administration sent me to Hill Force Base to start at a Grade 9 but every time I'd go there Arley Bitton would turn me down. He said, "No you can't get that job." So, I went back to the Administration office on 24th Street and they sent me back again for the same reason. (I don't see why he couldn't give you the job if you're qualified for it.) He said, "Nope you can't get it." He said, "If you want a job you better take this or else you won't have one." I said, "Okay." You know, I kind of gave him a mean look then because I think I should've gotten the job. I said, "Well, okay I'll take it." So I started working as a painter in, what I think was building number 2 or 4; the big hanger there at Hill Air Force Base. I started working there, painting parts and doing many other jobs. Finally, I was promoted and I left there and went to the paint shop where I painted aircrafts. We were there painting those aircrafts and after I got there he (Arley Bitton) was still my boss. He still wouldn't let me have the job that I qualified for. So a friend of mine said, "I'll tell you what, they're hiring down at Building 1/ Hanger 1. "Why don't you go down there and be interviewed?" I went there and the guy 2 interviewed me and he hired me the same day. But the old guy, Arley Bitton wouldn't let me leave or release me to go to my new job. I said, "My goodness, what's wrong with this man?" He won't let me go to my new job. So I had to stay there until I got promoted. He kept me for two weeks before my new supervisor could get me into his department. Not long after that I got promoted to supervisor. I was working at Hill Field painting aircraft until I was promoted as a Grade 8 Supervisor for painting aircrafts. I stayed there for a total of 36 years at Hill Air Force Base. I enjoyed it all until I said, "Well I've had enough time here so I'll let somebody else have the job." So I retired. I retired 27 years ago. Since I've been retired, I've been traveling and going different places, enjoying myself. I also cut hair with my brother, Jesse, for a while down in Ogden. DG: Does your brother still cut hair? RN: No, my brother passed about five years ago. I worked at the Clearfield Job Corps Center and got a barbering position cutting the students hair. I cut hair there for 11 years. After I retired from Job Corps as a barber, I accepted a job working in another place. I worked at the National Warehouse where I was a Grade 9. I worked there, oh gosh, about 11 years. Those people there wanted me to stay. But I said, "Well I've done enough of this, I have to go somewhere and enjoy myself. So I retired from there and now I just relax. Enjoying life and traveling. I went to California and was there for 11 days. While I was there, I had a chance to go to the Price is Right. DG: Did you? 3 RN: Yes. We were on the Price is Right and won a trip to Hawaii. We were in Hawaii, me and my two sons for 3-4 days. One of my sons was actually the one who had the opportunity to go on the Price is Right and won the trip for us. Yes, I always watch the Price is Right every day. Anyway, my oldest son said I'll give you a trip there. So I went and that's what we won, a trip to Hawaii. We really had fun there. DG: So what do you think is the proudest in your lifetime? When were you the proudest? RN: The proudest? When I retired. DG: You survived it all. RN: Yeah I enjoyed that, everything. I enjoyed some of the people I met but some of them weren't too good, but most of them I enjoyed. I joined church at New Zion in 1952 when I got here to Utah. Then it was called, Wall Avenue Baptist Church do you remember that? DG: Was it Wall and 28th? Is that where it was? RN: 27th. DG: 27th okay. RN: Across the street from Sloppy Joe's if you ever heard of that. DG: Oh yes the Sloppy Joe's. RN: Yes it was across the street from there. So, I'm still here in Utah. I'm still here and why not? I had some run-ins with different people though and from different places that I've gone. People who called you names that you didn't like. I've been to stores and was the first one in line when the person behind the register would 4 say, "Who was next?" They didn't have to ask who was next. I was the one standing there first. And I said, "Hey you know who was next." Then they would say, "Oh I'm sorry." You know how they are when they're like that. They shouldn't do things like that. I came from a family of 18. I had 10 brothers and 8 sisters. "No, 9 brothers if I exclude myself." I'm the third youngest. DG: Third youngest. RN: The third youngest. My oldest brothers' kid is one month younger than I am. That's all. DG: Younger than you? Oh my goodness. RN: Yes my birthday in April and my nephews' birthday is in May. DG: So how long have you lived in Ogden for? RN: How long have I lived, in Utah period? DG: In Ogden. RN: 62 years in Utah total. But I didn't live in Ogden for a long period of time. DG: 62 years okay. And you told us what brought you to Ogden was the job. RN: The job at Hill Air Force Base that's what brought me to Utah. I was working at Ford Motors. I was married and my wife and I already had one kid and she was expecting another. I said I have to get out of Detroit because I was just working three days a week at the Ford Motor Company. So like I mentioned before, I got a job because my brother called me and told me to come here to Utah. That's where I got my beginning. DG: Well how has Ogden changed over the years? 5 RN: Well it has changed quite a bit now. But when I first came here it was different. In Ogden you lived here but there was not much visiting or partying. You could cross the street where you lived, but you couldn't go into a restaurant to eat. They'd sell you a lunch but they wouldn't let you come in. You had to eat across the street. That was on 25th street. They wouldn't let you come in to sit. It was just segregated. That's the way it was. Nothing else was integrated, it was segregated on one side. They wouldn't let you go in and eat but they would sell the food to you and you had to go elsewhere to eat it. That's terrible. I couldn't stand it but I had to live with it. Everybody else was living with it. Yes that's the way it was. DG: What do you miss about the way it used to be here? Is there anything you miss? RN: Yeah I miss places we used to go and enjoy ourselves. DG: Can you name some of those places? RN: Oh yes, like the Elks Club in Salt Lake that's not there anymore. The American Legion is not there anymore, Sloppy Joe's is not there anymore, the Disco Lounge is not there anymore. The only place that is left there now is Willie Moore's Barber Shop. That's the only black place that we had was the barber shop. So you knew where to go. But you didn't always want to only go there because you'd get your hair cut and then you'd leave. DG: What are some of the great characters you remember from here? Is there anybody in particular that you know you, they just kind of had a reputation or there was just something about them? RN: Good or bad? 6 DG: Can be good or bad. Whatever you want to say. RN: Well when I came to Utah, I had relatives here, who were my brother and his wife. So that's who I knew and also my niece and her husband were here. We lived in Sahara Village. DG: Okay where's that? RN: That's up right across the street from Hill Air Force Base. We used to go there to drink beer or talk and we enjoyed that. We would go to the Elks Club and we would have fun over there. You know, we would just get together. DG: So there was nobody that really stood out? RN: No, nobody stood out. Well let me see Milo Savage he was a boxer there in Utah. DG: Really? RN: Yeah, Milo Savage was a boxer in Ogden. DG: Was he good? RN: Yes, he was good. Yes he was number one in Utah. Yes, I remember all those guys. I used to go watch them box. DG: Do you have a nickname? RN: Yes I do. DG: What's your nickname? RN: Oh my goodness. DG: You don't have to tell if you don't want too. RN: I'll tell you, I don't care. When I first came here…. I don't know if you knew A.J. Keller did you? DG: I don't know. 7 RN: Do you know his daughter? DG: Maybe. RN: Anyway, nobody knew my nickname. He got here and he said hey there's old Ditty Nelson. That's my nickname, Ditty. DG: Ditty? RN: Yes. Ask my pal, see that's what he calls me sometimes now. He got that name from some of the old people. DG: And so how did that come to be? RN: Ditty? My sister. She said I was trying to talk or do something and so they started calling me Ditty. I was born and raised on a farm and that's where all of us kids grew up, on the farm there. DG: Now where was this farm? RN: This farm is in Mississippi. Yes, McCall Creek, Mississippi. We lived out in the country with 100 acres of land. We still have it back there. DG: That's still in the family? RN: Yes, it's still in the family. My nephew lives on the land. He takes care of everything. Such as the taxes. He's tax exempt. One of my brothers sons bought land from Charlie, my other brother. After he bought one acre of land, it's the one we have to pay taxes on. But the other property, we don't have to pay taxes on it, 99 acres. DG: So who were some of your best friends? RN: Some of my best friends? James Dixon is number one. Deacon English, he's a Deacon in my church. He's my friend and so is Griffin. All three of those guys we 8 get along very well. We all sing together in church… Yes, they are good friends of mine, really good friends. DG: Alright, so what do you do for fun? RN: Well, I travel. Anywhere I can go. I'm going to Alaska this year. DG: Ah, are you cruising? RN: I'm going to fly there. Then when we get there, I'm going fishing. I want to go fishing. I always hear people talk about fishing over in Alaska so I want to go. I don't want to go see the mayor. What's her name? Sarah? DG: Sarah Palin. RN: Yeah Sarah Palin. DG: I don't think she's there. RN: I don't think so. She's might be gone now. DG: So tell me what are some of your best memories of grade school or high school? RN: Grade school? Okay, before I graduated from high school I was drafted into the service and I went to the European Operation in WWII. I met…Before I went to the service, I was going to high school. DG: Were you in the army/navy? RN: Army and I met two of my brothers there overseas. One brother was in the Pacific and my other brother was in Europe. There were five of us in the service at the same time. Five of us were in WWII. I used to drive on the Redball Express highway hauling troops to the front line. I would come back, load again and go back to the front line and take them and none of us got hurt. We didn't get not a wound out of all five of us. 9 DG: And what country you said you were in? RN: Amsterdam, France, Germany, England and Belgium. All of those places over there. DG: Now when you came back from serving in the military did you have any problems with getting housing or anything like that? RN: Yes, I had a lot of problems. I had problems here getting housing also. DG: Did you? RN: Yes, I didn't want to live in Mississippi anymore because there was nothing to do. Anyway, I did stay there for a while. So that's why I went to Detroit first and came here. Yeah because otherwise there just wasn't any work down there to do. The kind of work that we did, it was work but the work you didn't want to do. I didn't want to do the kind of work people were doing. DG: What kind of work was that? RN: They were hauling pulpwood and paperwood. They were cutting with jigsaws. We would saw down a tree and my brothers and I hauled it on the truck. My dad had his own pulpwood trucks and so we were working for him. That's what I did. I was on the farm before I went into service. Then I got out of the military that's what I did once more. DG: You met your wife when? RN: I met my wife when I got out of service. It was down at a little old club in Bude, Mississippi, that's where she lived. She was on her way to church. Anyway we were sitting there and I said to some guys that I was singing with, "Boy look at her. I want to talk to that lady when she comes back through here." Sure enough, 10 when she came back through, I stopped her. I said, "We are going to Fort Gibson, Mississippi next weekend to sing, do you want to go?" She said, "I'm going to have to ask my mom." She was a grown girl, but yet they were living with their mom and they did what their mom told them to do. So she asked her mom and her mom told her that she could go with me. So we picked her up and we had so much fun! DG: You wooed her with your singing huh? RN: Oh yeah. DG: Did you still sing here? RN: Oh yeah. I sing at church now. DG: Did you have a group? RN: Yeah, I had a group here in Utah, the Utah Travelers. We won awards and many things singing here in Utah. The governor gave us awards for singing; we were number one in Utah. DG: And so how long was that group together? RN: We were together about twenty something years. Yes, we did a lot of singing. DG: Well I see now how you met your wife. RN: Oh yes I met my wife. After we were married, we had one boy and she was expecting another when we left Mississippi. Then we had two more. Two more boys, one lives with me now. That one up there on the picture, he's the one that's in the Marines. He passed away about ten years ago. DG: Oh wow. RN: Yeah, he was a Marine. 11 DG: Was it in the line of duty? RN: No, he had a heart attack. He was 49 years old. I have one who played professional football. He's in Logan. I have all the pictures and things downstairs. My youngest son lives with me now. Yes, he keeps up the house. DG: Tell me when you were growing up what did you think you wanted to do? What did you want to be? RN: Well when I was growing up I wanted to be a teacher in the beginning. That's what I thought I wanted to do. I went to Alcorn College; an extension college in Brookhaven, Mississippi. I was going to school there and I didn't finish because I got married. I completed only 36 credit hours in college, that's it. I met my wife and we got married and so I have four boys and a girl. My daughter she's the oldest. DG: You know you talked about being on the front lines. How did war change you if any? RN: Well it didn't change me too much but it really made me mean when I got out of the service. I thought I was going to get killed anyway, so I became mean. You just didn't care what happened and you didn't take anything off anybody. If anybody messed with you, you're ready for them…. and I was ready for them. I couldn't help it because it was in me from being in the war. Every time I think about the war…. it just makes me think about what happened. Me and my brothers used to go fishing and while we were on our way some guys, white guys grabbed me and held me by my hands holding me up not letting me go. My other two brothers kept going. I told them, those boys, "I'm 12 going to get you if I can." "If I ever live to see it… I'm going to get you." My aim was to get them when I got out of the service. But the Lord took them away. He'd taken them away before anything happened, because I would have probably gotten into trouble. I know I would have, because I was going to do some crazy things. So when people did things like that, it just gets on your nerves. It's bad when people mess with you and you're not doing anything to them. You shouldn't have to go through all of those kinds of things. You just don't feel good. I'll never forget it, never. I think about the same thing, the Lord took them away before I had a chance to do anything to them. I was going to have to fight them. That's what I was going to do, I was going to fight. But it didn't happen. I got out of the military and I started getting better. I did the right thing. I had a brother who used to have a group down in Mississippi and they let me sing with them. DG: What was the name of their group? RN: Yeah they used to sing gospel all the time. Yes, my sisters, four sisters were singing. I can't think of the name of their group but it was all four of them singing. DG: Was your parents, did they sing too? RN: Yeah my mom and dad. My dad was a choir director. My mom played a guitar my dad played a guitar. My brother, Andrew played a guitar, my brother Charlie played the piano and my other brother Jesse played a guitar and I played nothing. DG: But you sang. RN: Not then, but it was fun. I enjoyed when we would go to church and sit down. They would be at choir practice. I wanted to sing so bad. They made me sit down 13 and I didn't do anything. So I would just sit over there and wait until they would get through with practice and were ready to go home. But I said, "One day I'll get to sing," and so I did. Yes, when I came to Utah I put a group together. The Utah Travelers Gospel Singers. You haven't seen any pictures have you? No, you haven't seen any of my pictures. DG: Of your Utah Travelers Gospel Singers if you have some you'd like to share with us. RN: I think I have got one. Let me show it to you. That's me, Babe Ruth, the Spearman twins and we had so much fun singing together. DG: Do you have a copy or anything? Is that the only photograph you have? RN: I have some with the whole group but it's in one of those photo albums. Just a minute let me see. That's my nephew, he sang with them. DG: The originals. RN: Yes, the originals. He's the only living one. That's my nephew George. He's my sister's youngest son. DG: Yeah if you wouldn't mind we'll make sure we get those back to you. RN: Okay. DG: And scan whichever one's you'd like. RN: Well I'll let you take them. I'll let you take this one. DG: Out of that group are they still here? RN: No, some of them passed. DG: Okay. 14 RN: Yeah that's my group. We went to California, and different places. We had fun trips. Yeah there are my boys right there. DG: So what lessons did you learn from this time in your life? All this adventure traveling and the singing. RN: Well I learned to enjoy life. You know many times I tried to buy a house but no one would sell me a house. DG: Now this is in Ogden? RN: Yes, this is in Ogden. DG: Okay. RN: Yes, Layton and in Ogden. Well, first they took me to North Ogden. Up there off Monroe Boulevard, what's the name of those houses over there? What street is that? DG: Wasn't it called Ron Clare? RN: Yes, Ron Clare. The guy took us all the way up there to show us houses. We went in the houses and they had water marks all over. I said, "I don't want that. I don't want to see any more houses." That's exactly what I told him, his name is Ed Higley. Did you ever know Glen Edward? Anyway, he used to be a police officer in Ogden. He started selling real estate and he found some land. So he bought his property right across the street there. I bought mine here. They brought us here at night to show it to us. He wouldn't let us come during the day to see the house or the land that we selected for the house. Anyway after I got—I had a direct loan from the military service, but I lost it because I couldn't get a place. Nobody would sell me the land, the house or 15 anything. There were four acres of land up Church Street, a guy and his wife had separated. The guy said it was four acres of land. His wife found out that he was selling it to black people and she told him, "No you're not selling it." That fell through. So we had nothing. Across from the bowling alley in Layton you know where that is? Okay, there was a guy that I called on the phone who said he had some houses there. He said, "Oh yeah come on up, come on up, we got houses to sell." He didn't know we were Black. When I got to the place and went inside, he said, "Can I help you?" I said "I'm the one who talked to you on the phone. I talked to you on the phone about a house." He said, "Oh we just sold it." That's what he said, "We just sold it." Boy, you know that makes you feel so bad. Here I am, you know I thought things were going well and that I was going to buy a house. It fell through. So a guy talked to Ed Higley and said, "You've got to sell to these guys too." Anyway, he told them you've got to finish this because I gave it to you to finish it. Ed Higley got up and came over to the table where we were. He said, he was sick then he said, "I'm sorry." He apologized. He said, "I'm sorry that I couldn't sell you that house." He said, "I have my reasons and you know the reason." He told us he couldn't sell us that house because they'd ruin him, kick him out of church or whatever. He said, "If you don't have that house built in a certain time, you're going to have to pay for it." He built it and that's how we got these two houses back then. My brother-in-law and I. We wouldn't have had these houses if it hadn't been for that. DG: From the government. 16 RN: The government yeah. The GI Loan that's what we had. Only two houses, that one across the street and this one. In 1967, that's when we bought them. Oh boy, we were some happy guys because we bought our homes. My kids were all going to high school then. Later, I had three boys at Utah State going to school at the same time. I had three boys and I had a grandson going to school up there. I also had a granddaughter going to school up there. The one I told you about it. He played professional football. He went to college there and now he lives in Logan. That's where they all went to school. So that's what makes me feel good. Because I got a house and my kids went to college. Things started working out better for us then. We can go places, and nobody bothers us. We enjoy ourselves and one another. My boys still hang around with their same friends. They've all been their friends ever since high school. Yes, they are real good friends too. I don't think they'll ever change now. DG: Is there anything else you want to talk about that we didn't cover in our questions? RN: Not necessarily. LR: So when you moved from Mississippi to Detroit about how old? RN: 22 years old. LR: So you were married, you had your wife. Did you have any kids when you moved to Mississippi? RN: Just one boy and she was expecting another one. I left there and came here. LR: Why do you think your brother came here to Utah? 17 RN: He came here for a job at Hill Air Force Base. LR: Oh same thing then, okay and he got you to come here. RN: Yes, he did. LR: I'm curious as to why you think this happened, the supervisor who kept being such a—I can think of a few words. RN: Yeah I know what you're saying. LR: I'll keep those words to myself. RN: I know. LR: Why do you think he was being so… RN: Because he didn't want me to be a supervisor in that building. I think he was hateful I can tell you that right now. He was hateful, he was. He was hateful he just didn't want anything to go well for me. LR: Do you think he would have been that way if you were white? RN: If I had been white? No, he wouldn't have been that way. I'm going to tell you the reason why I know this. At lunch time we were all sitting in the lunch room eating and everything was fine. We had a little game that we played called Uno. He came in there and said, Hey it's time for Richard Nelson. That's what he said, "Richard Nelson it's time for you to go to work." I said, "What did he say?" Sorenson said, "He said it's time for you to go to work." I walked up to him, and I said, "All of us are sitting in here and you're going to tell me it's time to go to work." I looked at him said, "You must be prejudice or something." He didn't know what to say. He looked at me, he walked away and asked the other guy, "Hmm I must have made Richard Nelson mad about something." What else would he 18 make me mad about? He pointed me out and told me to get back to work. I wasn't the only one in there, but I was the only Black one. There were four white guys and me. I think I was the only black guy that worked on the crew. And he called me out like that. That burned me up. I wanted to do something but I didn't want to lose my job. I really wanted to do something. LR: I can tell even now how upsetting it was to you. Kind of as a followup, when do you think things starting getting better? I mean you couldn't even buy a home until 1967. When do you think things started to get better? RN: So tough like that? LR: Yeah. RN: Well about 10 years after that. After we got our house or maybe less, about 8 or 9 years it started getting better. People were beginning to get houses then. Yes, they still didn't want it to happen but they didn't have any other choice. They had to let it go through. LR: So do you think, forgive me this fascinates me to no end from a historical perspective because I don't know much about it nor do I understand it. RN: I know. LR: I have many questions but I'm trying to form the one that's important to me. RN: Go ahead, take your time. LR: As things started to get better… RN: With Martin Luther King? That's some of it. LR: Yeah. RN: Before that you mean. 19 LR: But no I'm talking about in you told me 1967 and I'm thinking that's after Martin Luther King and yet you were still struggling. I'm trying to understand how you managed to make such, I can tell you wanted to just lash out and get upset and yet you managed to kind of keep it all in and I look at you now and you're happy. It's so much fun to sit here and talk to you. I wonder how you managed to do that. How you managed to become the man you are today despite everything. That's my question, how did you manage to… RN: To be as I am now? LR: Yes given everything. RN: Because you forget about all the bad things that happened to you. You know I had all these kids who were raised up here. They're doing well and that makes me feel real good. When your family is doing well, you know what I mean? They went many places and they had lots of friends. They were true friends because they are still together today. Nobody bothers them and that makes me feel good. It makes me feel real good because when I was growing up it was different. It was terrible I was born in Mississippi. LR: I spent some time there. RN: It was terrible. You couldn't get anything you wanted. I worked the same job down there and other people were getting more money than I was and I was given the worse job. I used to get paid for cutting the timber and different things. They paid the other people who weren't doing anything. But they paid him about 2 dollars more than I was getting. I told them I was quitting. When I told the guy that I was going to quit, he did give me more than I was getting but I still didn't get as much 20 as the other guy. I think about those things when I was growing up. I said, "I don't want my kids to grow up like that too." When I got out here to Utah, things changed and that made me happy. It made me feel much better. LR: Well seeing your kids having more success than you were able too kind of helped you, okay I think I understanding. RN: Oh yeah keep on asking what you want to know. LR: No I'm trying to make sure I understanding what you're saying without making this about me. I'm getting emotionally involved in this and I shouldn't. I should be, I'm supposed to be the professional one asking questions and I'm getting emotionally involved. So what you're saying is you've become the man you are today because your kids were able to obtain everything you didn't have and that was, you felt this joy in watching that. RN: Yes, yes. LR: Okay. RN: Yeah it made me feel real good because they got what I wanted to have. All of them have an education and they have good jobs. So what more would you want? My family grew up and they were going somewhere. That was my heart. That was my heart. LR: How long were you married? RN: Oh, 58 years. LR: Oh wow that's fantastic. RN: 58 years, yes. We had fun. I told my wife that I wanted her to see what I've been through and to see the different places that I saw during WWII. So we went to 21 Europe for 11 days and I took her to Amsterdam, England, Holland, that's a different place. It's wild, I'll put it that way, it's wild. LR: I've heard stories. RN: Yes it's wild, but I took her over there and she said wow, "I'm glad you're taking me over to England and London all of those different places." We had fun. DG: And you're still having fun. You can just see, I mean you are just one happy man. RN: I am. DG: And you just enjoy life. RN: I am. I am enjoying myself. That's the only way to be. LR: Right. RN: That's the only way to be. I don't have anything against anybody. I don't. 22

Purpose: Enrolling traumatic brain injury (TBI) patients with an inability to provide informed consent in research is challenging. Alternatives to patient consent are not sufficiently embedded in European and national legislation, which allows procedural variation and bias. We aimed to quantify variations in informed consent policy and practice. Methods: Variation was explored in the CENTER-TBI study. Policies were reported by using a questionnaire and national legislation. Data on used informed consent procedures were available for 4498 patients from 57 centres across 17 European countries. Results: Variation in the use of informed consent procedures was found between and within EU member states. Proxy informed consent (N = 1377;64%) was the most frequently used type of consent in the ICU, followed by patient informed consent (N = 426;20%) and deferred consent (N = 334;16%). Deferred consent was only actively used in 15 centres (26%), although it was considered valid in 47 centres (82%). Conclusions: Alternatives to patient consent are essential for TBI research. While there seems to be concordance amongst national legislations, there is regional variability in institutional practices with respect to the use of different informed consent procedures. Variation could be caused by several reasons, including inconsistencies in clear legislation or knowledge of such legislation amongst researchers.

The global lockdown to mitigate COVID-19 pandemic health risks has altered human interactions with nature. Here, we report immediate impacts of changes in human activities on wildlife and environmental threats during the early lockdown months of 2020, based on 877 qualitative reports and 332 quantitative assessments from 89 different studies. Hundreds of reports of unusual species observations from around the world suggest that animals quickly responded to the reductions in human presence. However, negative effects of lockdown on conservation also emerged, as confinement resulted in some park officials being unable to perform conservation, restoration and enforcement tasks, resulting in local increases in illegal activities such as hunting. Overall, there is a complex mixture of positive and negative effects of the pandemic lockdown on nature, all of which have the potential to lead to cascading responses which in turn impact wildlife and nature conservation. While the net effect of the lockdown will need to be assessed over years as data becomes available and persistent effects emerge, immediate responses were detected across the world. Thus, initial qualitative and quantitative data arising from this serendipitous global quasi-experimental perturbation highlights the dual role that humans play in threatening and protecting species and ecosystems. Pathways to favorably tilt this delicate balance include reducing impacts and increasing conservation effectiveness. ; The Canada Research Chairs program provided funding for the core writing team. Field research funding was provided by A.G. Leventis Foundation; Agence Nationale de la Recherche, [grant number ANR-18-32–0010CE-01 (JCJC PEPPER)]; Agencia Estatal de Investigaci; Agência Regional para o Desenvolvimento da Investigação Tecnologia e Inovação (ARDITI), [grant number M1420-09-5369-FSE-000002]; Alan Peterson; ArcticNet; Arkadaşlar; Army Corp of Engineers; Artificial Reef Program; Australia's Integrated Marine Observing System (IMOS), National Collaborative; Research Infrastructure Strategy (NCRIS), University of Tasmania; Australian Institute of Marine Science; Australian Research Council, [grant number LP140100222]; Bai Xian Asia Institute; Batubay Özkan; BC Hydro Fish and Wildlife Compensation Program; Ben-Gurion University of the Negev; Bertarelli Foundation; Bertarelli Programme in Marine Science; Bilge Bahar; Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation; Biology Society of South Australia; Boston University; Burak Över; California State Assembly member Patrick O'Donnell; California State University Council on Ocean Affairs, Science & Technology; California State University Long Beach; Canada Foundation for Innovation (Major Science Initiative Fund and funding to Oceans Network Canada), [grant number MSI 30199 for ONC]; Cape Eleuthera Foundation; Centre National d'Etudes Spatiales; Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique; Charles Darwin Foundation, [grant number 2398]; Colombian Institute for the Development of Science and Technology (COLCIENCIAS), [grant number 811–2018]; Colombian Ministry of Environment and Sustainable Development, [grant number 0041–2020]; Columbia Basin Trust; Commission for Environmental Cooperation; Cornell Lab of Ornithology; Cultural practices and environmental certification of beaches, Universidad de la Costa, Colombia, [grant number INV.1106–01–002-15, 2020–21]; Department of Conservation New Zealand; Direction de l'Environnement de Polynésie Française; Disney Conservation Fund; DSI-NRF Centre of; Excellence at the FitzPatrick Institute of African Ornithology; Ecology Project International; Emin Özgür; Environment and Climate Change Canada; European Community: RTD programme - Species Support to Policies; European Community's Seventh Framework Programme; European Union; European Union's Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme, Marie Skłodowska-Curie, [grant number 798091, 794938]; Faruk Eczacıbaşı; Faruk Yalçın Zoo; Field research funding was provided by King Abdullah University of Science and Technology; Fish and Wildlife Compensation Program; Fisheries and Oceans Canada; Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, [grant numbers FWC-12164, FWC-14026, FWC-19050]; Fondo Europeo de Desarrollo Regional; Fonds québécois de la recherche nature et technologies; Foundation Segré; Fundação para a Ciência e a Tecnologia (FCT Portugal); Galapagos National Park Directorate research, [grant number PC-41-20]; Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation, [grant number GBMF9881 and GBMF 8072]; Government of Tristan da Cunha; Habitat; Conservation Trust Foundation; Holsworth Wildlife Research Endowment; Institute of Biology of the Southern Seas, Sevastopol, Russia; Instituto de Investigación de Recursos Biológicos Alexander von Humboldt; Instituto Nacional de Pesquisas Espaciais (INPE), Brazil; Israeli Academy of Science's Adams Fellowship; King Family Trust; Labex, CORAIL, France; Liber Ero Fellowship; LIFE (European Union), [grant number LIFE16 NAT/BG/000874]; Mar'a de Maeztu Program for Units of Excellence in R&D; Ministry of Science and Innovation, FEDER, SPASIMM,; Spain, [grant number FIS2016–80067-P (AEI/FEDER, UE)]; MOE-Korea, [grant number 2020002990006]; Mohamed bin Zayed Species Conservation Fund; Montreal Space for Life; National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Earth and Space Science Fellowship Program; National Geographic Society, [grant numbers NGS-82515R-20]; National Natural Science Fund of China; National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration; National Parks Board, Singapore; National Science and Technology Major Project of China; National Science Foundation, [grant number DEB-1832016]; Natural Environment Research Council of the UK; Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada (NSERC), Alliance COVID-19 grant program, [grant numbers ALLRP 550721–20, RGPIN-2014-06229 (year: 2014), RGPIN-2016-05772 (year: 2016)]; Neiser Foundation; Nekton Foundation; Network of Centre of Excellence of Canada: ArcticNet; North Family Foundation; Ocean Tracking Network; Ömer Külahçıoğlu; Oregon State University; Parks Canada Agency (Lake Louise, Yoho, and Kootenay Field Unit); Pew Charitable Trusts; Porsim Kanaf partnership; President's International Fellowship Initiative for postdoctoral researchers Chinese Academy of Sciences, [grant number 2019 PB0143]; Red Sea Research Center; Regional Government of the Azores, [grant number M3.1a/F/025/2015]; Regione Toscana; Rotary Club of Rhinebeck; Save our Seas Foundation; Science & Technology (CSU COAST); Science City Davos, Naturforschende Gesellschaft Davos; Seha İşmen; Sentinelle Nord program from the Canada First Research Excellence Fund; Servizio Foreste e Fauna (Provincia Autonoma di Trento); Sigrid Rausing Trust; Simon Fraser University; Sitka Foundation; Sivil Toplum Geliştirme Merkezi Derneği; South African National Parks (SANParks); South Australian Department for Environment and Water; Southern California Tuna Club (SCTC); Spanish Ministry for the Ecological Transition and the Demographic Challenge; Spanish Ministry of Economy and Competitiveness; Spanish Ministry of Science and Innovation; State of California; Sternlicht Family Foundation; Suna Reyent; Sunshine Coast Regional Council; Tarea Vida, CEMZOC, Universidad de Oriente, Cuba, [grant number 10523, 2020]; Teck Coal; The Hamilton Waterfront Trust; The Ian Potter Foundation, Coastwest, Western Australian State NRM; The Red Sea Development Company; The Wanderlust Fund; The Whitley Fund; Trans-Anatolian Natural Gas Pipeline; Tula Foundation (Hakai Institute); University of Arizona; University of Pisa; US Fish and Wildlife Service; US Geological Survey; Valencian Regional Government; Vermont Center for Ecostudies; Victorian Fisheries Authority; VMRC Fishing License Fund; and Wildlife Warriors Worldwide.

1. EinleitungAls im Frühjahr viele Menschen auf die Straße gingen, um gegen die von der Regierung beschlossenen Einschränkungen zur Eindämmung der Verbreitung des Coronavirus zu demonstrieren, fühlten sich nicht wenige an die Pegida-Proteste - beginnend im Dezember 2014 - erinnert, bei denen vor allem in Dresden, aber auch in anderen deutschen Städten tausende Menschen auf die Straße gegangen sind, um ihrem Unmut hinsichtlich der Einwanderungspolitik der Regierung Ausdruck zu verleihen.Den Teilnhemer:innen der Pegida-Proteste wird oftmals vorgeworfen, 'rechts' oder gar Neo-Nazis zu sein, während die "Querdenker" als Verschwörungstheoretiker:innen und Maskenverweigerer dargestellt werden. Entsprechend konnten einschlägigen Medien die folgenden Überschriften entnommen werden:Pegida-Teilnehmer beschimpfen Hotel-Gäste rassistisch (Abendzeitung am 03.08.2016) [1]Typischer Pegida-Anhänger ist 48, männlich und gut gebildet (Berliner Zeitung am 04.02.2020) [2]"Querdenker"-Demo in Leipzig: Journalisten angegriffen, Grünen-Politiker belästigt (Frankfurter Rundschau am 08.11.2021) [3]Angriff auf Reichstag: 40 mutmaßliche Randalierer bislang ermittelt (ntv.de am 16.01.2021) [4]Aber wer sind diese Leute wirklich, die auf die Straße gehen, welche Motive haben sie und wie rechts sind sie? Mit dieser Frage beschäftigten sich verschiedene Forscherteams, die mit Hilfe von Befragungen versucht haben, dies herauszufinden. In der vorliegenden Arbeit werden diese Studien aufgegriffen und miteinander verglichen. Da die Ereignisse, insbesondere die Pegida-Proteste, bereits einige Jahre zurückliegen, wird in einem ersten Schritt die Entstehung und Chronologie der Proteste beschrieben, bevor im zweiten Teil die Pegida-Proteste mit denen der Querdenker verglichen werden.Dabei beschränkt sich die hier vorliegende Arbeit darauf, die Querdenker-Demonstrationen und die Pegida-Proteste hinsichtlich der Teilnehmer:innen und den Motiven für die Teilnahme zu untersuchen und vergleichen. Zudem soll das rechtextremistische Potential analysiert werden. Bei den ausgewählten Kategorien werden die jeweiligen Protestphänomene zunächst getrennt voneinander betrachtet und in einem zweiten Schritt miteinander verglichen, um Gemeinsamkeiten und Unterschiede herauszuarbeiten. 2. Chronologie der Proteste2.1 Chronologie der Pegida-ProtesteVersetzt man sich in das Jahr 2014, dem Beginn der Pegida-Proteste zurück, ist in Deutschland und insbesondere in Sachsen eine anhaltende negative Stimmung gegenüber Geflüchteten zu beobachten. Immer wieder kommt es zu Protesten gegen geplante Unterkünfte für die temporäre Unterbringung von Flüchtlingen, wie beispielsweise im November 2013 in Schneeberg, wo sich rund 2000 Menschen versammeln, um gegen die Unterbringung von rund 250 aus Syrien geflüchteter Menschen zu demonstrieren (Röpke 2013; Antifa Reche Team Dresden 2016, S. 35).Von dieser allgemeinen Stimmung angeregt, gründete Lutz Bachmann später eine Facebookgruppe "Patriotische Europäer gegen die Islamisierung des Abendlandes", woraus schließlich der eingetragene Verein 'Patriotische Europäer gegen die Islamisierung des Abendlandes' kurz 'Pegida' hervorging (Geiges, Marg & Walter 2015, S. 19), welcher am 20. Oktober 2014 zu einem sogenannten Abendspaziergang in die Dresdner Innenstadt aufrief (Vorländer, Herold & Schäller 2016, S. 109).Unter der Bezeichnung 'Spaziergang' fanden diese Demonstrationen fortan jeden Montag in Dresden statt, um gegen Glaubens- und Stellvertreterkriege auf deutschem Boden sowie gegen die 'Islamisierung des Abendlandes' zu protestieren (Geiges, Marg & Walter 2015, S. 12), wobei am 8. Dezember 2014 zum ersten Mal die Marke von 10.000 Teilnehmenden überschritten wurde (Antifa Reche Team Dresden 2016, S. 35).In den darauffolgenden Wochen konnte ein weiterer Zustrom zu den wöchentlich montags stattfindenden Protesten beobachtet werden. Den Höhepunkt der Demonstrationen bildete der Spaziergang am 12. Januar 2015, der unter den Eindrücken des Anschlags auf das französische Satiremagazin 'Charlie Hebdo' stand und an dem sich nach offiziellen Angaben der Polizei rund 25.000 Menschen beteiligten (ebd.; Geiges, Marg & Walter 2015, S. 18).Angeregt von dem großen Zuspruch der Dresdner Spaziergänge gründeten sich in ganz Sachsen, aber auch in viel anderen Städten der Bundesrepublik, wie München, Würzburg, Kassel, Hannover und Bonn, Ableger, die allerdings mit wenigen Ausnahmen in Sachsen nicht annähernd so großen Zulauf hatten wie die Proteste in Dresden und an denen teilweise nur wenige Dutzend Menschen teilnahmen (Antifa Reche Team Dresden 2016, S. 36).Im Frühjahr und Sommer flachte, auch aufgrund anhaltender Konflikte innerhalb des Organisationsteams, der Zulauf zu den Demonstrationen merklich ab. Bisweilen versammelten sich nur noch weniger als 2.000 Menschen zu den Spaziergängen in Dresden. Jedoch fanden insbesondere im Umland von Dresden nahezu täglich Demonstrationen, organisiert von Pegida Ablegern, statt (Antifa Reche Team Dresden 2016, S. 47, Geiges, Marg & Walter 2015, S. 21).Auch unter dem Einfluss des anhaltenden Zustromes von Flüchtlingen konnte über den Sommer hinweg wieder eine Steigerung der Teilnehmerzahl beobachtet werden. Waren es im Juli noch rund dreitausend Teilnehmende, waren es Anfang September bereits über fünftausend, was sich bis Ende September auf neuntausend Teilnehmende steigerte (Antifa Reche Team Dresden 2016, S. 47). Zum einjährigen Bestehen von Pegida am 19. Oktober 2015 versammelt sich bei einer stationären Kundgebung in der Dresdener Innenstadt 15.000 bis 20.000 Menschen (ebd.).Bei den folgenden Kundgebungen konnte eine immer aufgeladenere Stimmung beobachtet werden, die zunehmend auch zu gewaltsamen Ausschreitungen führte. Beispielsweise wurden am Rand des Pegida-Weihnachtssingens am 21. Dezember 2015 gezielt Menschen von Nazis und Hooligans angegriffen, die sich unter die Pegida-Anhänger gemischt hatten (ebd.; Jacobsen 2015).Vorläufiger Höhepunkt sollte eine europäische Vernetzung der Pegida-Demonstrationen am 6. Februar 2016 sein, bei der in vielen europäischen Städten wie Graz, Amsterdam, Dublin und Antwerpen gleichzeitig Kundgebungen abgehalten und so die 'Festung Europa' symbolisiert werden sollte. Der Zuspruch blieb aber selbst in Dresden weit hinter den Erwartungen zurück (Antifa Reche Team Dresden 2016, S. 50; Zeit online 2016).Insbesondere in Dresden kam es dennoch bis weit ins Jahr 2017 hinein zu weiteren Protestkundgebungen mit bis zu zweitausend Teilnehmenden. Die bisher letzte größere Protestaktion fand anlässlich des fünfjährigen Bestehens der Organisation am 20. Oktober 2019 statt, bei der sich rund dreitausend Menschen versammelten, um erneut gegen die Migrationspolitik zu demonstrieren (Tagesschau 2019). 2.2 Chronologie der Querdenker-ProtesteErste Meldungen, nach denen in der Provinz Wuhan in China ein vermutlich tödliches, hoch ansteckendes Virus entdeckt wurde, konnten den Medien bereits Ende 2019 entnommen werden. Der erste bestätigte Fall wurde in Deutschland schließlich am 27. Januar 2020 in Bayern gemeldet (Imöhl & Ivanow 2021). Nachdem die Bundesregierung zunächst eher zurückhaltend reagiert und sich gegen striktere Maßnahmen ausgesprochen hatte, wurde schließlich beginnend mit dem 22. März 2020, zunächst befristet bis zum 19. April, der erste Lockdown verhängt, der mehrmals verlängert wurde und schließlich nach sieben Wochen am 7. Mai. 2020 endete (Bundesministerium für Gesundheit 2022).Unter dem Begriff der 'Hygienedemos' fanden bereits im April erste Protestaktionen gegen die von der Bundesregierung beschlossenen tiefgreifenden Einschränkungen des öffentlichen Lebens statt. Nachdem anfänglich ein Schwerpunkt der Proteste in Berlin beobachtet werden konnte, fanden bereits kurze Zeit später ähnliche Aktionen in anderen deutschen Großstädten und ebenfalls im ländlichen Raum statt (Frei & Nachtwey 202, S. 1).Die Proteste gewannen dabei schnell an Zulauf und breiteten sich immer weiter aus. Im Anschluss an eine Großkundgebung am 9. Mai 2020 in Stuttgart mit über 20.000 Teilnehmenden gründete sich schließlich unter der Federführung von Michael Ballweg die Initiative 'Querdenken 711' (ebd.). Hierbei wurde auch der Begriff 'Querdenken' geprägt (Bundesstelle für Sektenfragen 2021, S. 5).Bundesweit gründeten sich nach dem Stuttgarter Vorbild weitere Querdenken-Initiativen, sowohl in größeren Städten als auch im ländlichen Raum. Zudem gelang es den Organisatoren der Querdenker-Bewegung innerhalb kurzer Zeit, erhebliche finanzielle Mittel zu generieren, mit denen die Protestkundgebungen finanziert werden konnten (Holzer, et al., 2021, S. 21).Den Höhepunkt erreichten die Proteste Mitte Mai 2020, ehe mit Auslaufen des Lockdowns auch die Teilnehmerzahlen an den Demonstrationen wieder abflachte (Verfassungsschutz Nordrhein-Westfalen 2022, S. 12). Initiiert von der Querdenker-Bewegung unter der Führung von Michael Ballweg vernetzten und strukturierten sich die einzelnen Protestgruppen und es wurden bundesweit Kundgebungen organisiert (Holzer, et al., 2021, S. 13).Die größten Kundgebungen fanden am 1. und 29. August in Berlin, am 4. Oktober in Konstanz sowie am 7. November 2020 in Leipzig statt (Frei & Nachtwey 202, S. 1), ehe über den Winter hinweg der Zulauf erneut abflachte. Eine weitere Protestwelle konnte im Frühjahr 2021 beobachtet werden. Vor dem Hintergrund des zweiten Lockdowns, der am 6. Januar 2021 beschlossen wurde und bis in den Mai hinein anhielt, zogen wieder vermehrt Menschen auf die Straße, um gegen die Maßnahmen zu demonstrieren (Verfassungsschutz Nordrhein-Westfalen 2022, S. 12).In diesem Zusammenhang identifizierte der Verfassungsschutz Nordrhein-Westfalen (2022, S. 12) eine positive Korrelation zwischen steigenden Infektionszahlen und Protestgeschehen. Der Bericht stellt zudem fest, dass im Lauf des Jahres 2021 eine Zunahme verbal aggressiven Verhaltens seitens der Teilnehmenden zu beobachten war und sich Ärzt:innen, Politiker sowie Wissenschaftler als Feindbild herausbildeten, die teilweise sogar angegriffen und bedroht wurden (Verfassungsschutz Nordrhein-Westfalen 2022, S. 16; S. 20).Mit Abflachen der Infektionswelle nahm auch das Protestgeschehen im Sommer 2021 zunächst merklich ab. Im Herbst veränderte sich schließlich die Form des Protestes. Die Querdenken-Organisationen verloren zunehmend an Einfluss und statt großer Kundgebungen war eine Verschiebung hin zu einer Vielzahl kleinerer Protestaktionen in kleineren Städten und ländlichen Gebieten zu beobachten (Verfassungsschutz Nordrhein-Westfalen 2022, S. 16; S. 20).Mit dem Auslaufen der meisten Corona-Maßnahmen konnte auch ein deutlicher Rückgang an Protesten gegen die Maßnahmen beobachtet werden. Zurzeit finden nach wie vor in vielen Städten noch regelmäßig Demonstrationen statt, wie beispielsweise am 13. August 2022 in Berlin ein Auto- und Fahrradkorso, um gegen das vom Bundestag beschlossene Infektionsschutzgesetz zu demonstrieren [5]. 3. Vergleich der Protestphänomene3.1 Wer nimmt an den Protesten teil?3.1.1 Pegida-ProtesteMit der Frage, wer an den Protesten teilnimmt, beschäftigt sich insbesondere eine Studie von Vorländer, Herold & Schäller aus dem Jahr 2015, bei der durch "Face-to-Face-Interviews" (Vorländer, Herold & Schäller 2015; S 13) mit Teilnehmenden an Pegida-Demonstrationen in Dresden die soziodemografische Zusammensetzung sowie die zentralen Motive der Protesttierenden ermittelt werden sollten.Ergebnisse dieser Untersuchungen zeigen, dass die Befragten durchschnittlich 47,6 Jahre alt und von den 397 Teilnehmenden der Proteste eine Mehrheit von 74,6 Prozent männlich waren (ebd., S. 43f). Zudem wurde der letzte Bildungsabschluss ermittelt. Die Mehrheit der Befragten hat demnach die Schule nach der 10. Klasse verlassen (ebd. S. 45). Ebenfalls auffällig ist der hohe Anteil an Befragten, die einen Hochschulabschluss als letzten Bildungsabschluss angaben [6]. Mit 28,2 Prozent ist der Anteil im Vergleich zum Bundesdurchschnitt doppelt so hoch (ebd., S. 46). Des Weiteren gaben 5 Prozent einen Hauptschulabschluss, 16,4 Prozent die Hochschulreife und 8,6 Prozent einen Meisterabschluss als letzten Bildungsabschluss an (ebd.). Mit rund 47,6 Prozent waren die meisten der Befragten Arbeiter oder Angestellte, gefolgt von 20,4 Prozent Selbständigen und 17,6 Prozent Rentner (ebd., S. 47). Beamte, Studierende, Auszubildende, Schüler:innen und Arbeitslose machten lediglich etwas mehr als 10 Prozent der Protestierenden aus.Auch wurde nach der Parteiverbundenheit der Pegida-Anhänger gefragt. Eine große Mehrheit von 62,1 Prozent fühlt sich demnach zu keiner der etablierten Parteien hingezogen (ebd., S. 52). Betrachtet man die Ergebnisse, geben 16,8 Prozent der Befragten an, dass ihre Einstellungen am ehesten mit den Ideen der 'Alternativen für Deutschland' (AfD) übereinstimmen. Die anderen Parteien sind weit abgeschlagen: CDU 8,9 Prozent, NPD 3,7 Prozent, Linke 3,0 Prozent, SPD und FDP 1,2 Prozent, Grüne 1,0 Prozent (ebd.). Die Ersteller der Studie vermuten zudem eine große Schnittmenge zwischen dem hohen Anteil an Nichtwähler bei der Landtagswahl in Sachsen (50,9 Prozent) und dem Anteil der Befragten an den Pegida-Kundgebungen, die sich zu keiner der etablierten Parteien hingezogen fühlen (ebd., S. 53).Die Ergebnisse der Studie lassen darauf schließen, dass es sich um eine sehr heterogene Gruppe mit überdurchschnittlicher Bildung und überdurchschnittlichem Einkommen handelt, die sich vorwiegend aus Menschen in der 'Mitte der Gesellschaft' zusammensetzt (Kocyba 2016, S. 149f). Die hier verwendeten Daten müssen allerdings mit Vorsicht betrachtet werden, Kocyba (2016, S. 151) und Nachtwey (2016, S. 305) merken an, dass beobachtet werden konnte, dass viele der Demonstrierenden nicht an wissenschaftlichen Befragungen teilnahmen und dadurch nur ein verzerrtes Ergebnis hin zur Mitte der Gesellschaft abgebildet werden konnte.3.1.2 Querdenker-ProtesteBei den verwendeten Studien handelt es sich zum einen um eine Umfrage, die im Rahmen der sogenannte Erntedank-Demonstration Anfang Oktober in Konstanz durchgeführt wurde, die von der Initiative "Querdenken 753" organisiert wurde und bei der es gelungen ist, 138 Personen zu interviewen (Koos 2022, S. 68). Dabei wurden nach dem Zufallsprinzipe gezielt Protestierende auf der Demonstration angesprochen und per Handzettel zur Teilnahme an der Umfrage eingeladen (ebd.).Bei der zweiten Studie handelt es sich um eine im Herbst 2021 durchgeführte Online-Umfrage des Schweizer Forscherteams Frei, Schäfer & Nachtwey. Bei dieser nicht-repräsentativen Umfrage wurden die Einladungen zur Teilnahme in offenen Telegram-Gruppen von Protestorganisator:innen gepostet (Frei, Schäfer & Nachtwey 2021, S. 251). Dadurch konnten 1152 Umfrageteilnehmer gewonnen werden (ebd.).Beide Studien kommen zum Schluss, dass die Teilnehmer:innen an den Protesten durchschnittlich etwa 48 (47) [7] Jahre alt sind und vorwiegend über einen höheren Bildungsabschluss verfügen (Koos 2022, S. 71). Nachtwey, Schäfer & Frei fanden dabei heraus, dass rund 34 Prozent über ein abgeschlossenes Studium verfügen, 31 Prozent das Abitur als höchsten Abschluss angaben und 21 Prozent mindestens die Mittlere Reife. Damit sind unter den Demonstrationsteilnehmer:innen Personen, die mindestens das Abitur als höchsten Bildungsabschluss angaben, überdurchschnittlich häufig vertreten verglichen mit dem Durchschnitt der deutschen Bevölkerung (ebd.).Ebenfalls überrepräsentiert sind Selbständige mit 20 (25) Prozent der Teilnehmer:innen, während die Mehrheit von 46 Prozent sich selbst als Arbeiter oder Angestellte einstuften (ebd.). Rentner:innen, Hausfrauen, Student:innen bildeten zusammen rund 20 Prozent der Teilnehmenden (Nachtwey, Schäfer, & Frei 2022, S. 8). Beide Studien kommen entsprechend zum Schluss, dass sich die Teilnehmer:innen der Querdenker-Proteste meist der Mittelschicht zuordnen lassen (Koos 2022, S. 72).Eine Mehrheit von 61 Prozent bezeichnet sich den Umfragen zufolge als politisch interessiert (ebd. S. 80). Fragt man nach dem Wahlverhalten bei der Bundestagswahl 2017, gaben die meisten (23 Prozent) an, die Grünen gewählt zu haben, gefolgt von 'Die Linke' (18 Prozent), AfD (15 Prozent), CDU/CSU (10 Prozent), FDP (7 Prozent), SPD (6 Prozent) sowie 'andere Parteien' (21 Prozent) (Nachtwey, Schäfer, & Frei 2022, S. 10).Auf die Frage, welche Partei die Teilnehmer:innen heute wählen würden, antworteten 61 Prozent 'andere Parteien' (ebd.). Die AfD käme demnach auf 27 Prozent der Stimmen, FDP 6 Prozent, die Linke 5 Prozent, Grüne und CDU/CSU jeweils 1 Prozent und SPD 0 Prozent (ebd.). Es zeigt sich hier eine deutliche Verschiebung hin zu anderen Parteien und auch zur AfD, was darauf schließen lässt, dass sich eine Mehrheit der Befragten nicht ausreichend von den etablierten Parteien vertreten fühlt.Hierbei sei bemerkt, dass die Studie von Koos die Tendenzen hin zur AfD nicht bestätigen konnte. Zwar wurden auch hier 'andere Parteien' mit 55 Prozent am häufigsten genannt, es gaben jedoch lediglich 2 Prozent der Befragten an, die AfD bei der kommenden Bundestagswahl wählen zu wollen (Koos 2022, S. 81). Diese Diskrepanz könnte darauf zurückzuführen sein, dass Koos lediglich Personen befragte, die bei der Demonstration in Konstanz teilnahmen, während Nachtwey und Kolleg:innen auf Umfrageteilnehmer:innen aus ganz Deutschland zurückgriffen, entsprechend auch aus Regionen, in denen die AfD stärker vertreten ist (Sachsen: 28,4 Prozent [8]; Thüringen: 22 [9]) als in Baden-Württemberg (9,7 Prozent [10]), was darauf schließen lässt, dass dort unabhängig von Corona die AfD eher eine etablierte Wählerklientel aufweisen kann.3.1.3 Gemeinsamkeiten und UnterschiedeDer Vergleich der Pegida-Demonstrationen und der Querdenker-Proteste zeigt, dass sich die Teilnehmenden recht ähnlich sind. Vergleicht man die beiden Protestphänomene miteinander, ist zunächst das Durchschnittsalter mit 47-48 Jahren auffällig gleich. Auch hinsichtlich des Bildungsabschlusses und der Berufstätigkeit gibt es nur geringe Unterschiede. In beiden Fällen sind die Teilnhmer:innen eher überdurchschnittlich gebildet. Der Anteil von Angestellten und Arbeitern ist jeweils am höchsten. Außerdem ist auffällig, dass ein nicht unerheblicher Teil einer selbstständigen Tätigkeit nachgeht. Unterschiede gibt es hinsichtlich der Geschlechterverteilung. Während bei den Querdenker-Protesten die Verteilung nahezu gleich ist, sind männliche Teilnehmer bei den Pegida-Kundgebungen in der Überzahl.Schaut man sich das Wahlverhalten an, stellt man fest, dass die meisten der Befragten keine der 'etablierten' Parteien bei der nächsten Bundestagswahl wählen würden. Bei den jeweiligen Befragungen kommt keine der 'etablierten' Parteien über 10 Prozent der Stimmen. Vor allem Parteien aus dem linken Spektrum überzeugen nur wenige der Protestteilnehmer:innen. Dies spiegelt die große Unzufriedenheit der Befragten mit der Arbeit von Regierung und Politikern wider, auf die im folgenden Kapitel nochmals genauer eingegangen wird.Die Rolle der AfD ist etwas undurchsichtiger. Von den etablierten Parteien findet die AfD unter den Pegida-Anhänger die meiste Zustimmung, wenngleich der Wert mit etwas mehr als 16 Prozent recht gering ist. Bei den Querdenker-Anhängern kommen die Befragungen zu unterschiedlichen Ergebnissen: Bei der Online-Befragung würden 27 Prozent bei der kommenden Bundestagswahl die AfD wählen, während dies bei der Vor-Ort-Befragung in Konstanz nur zwei Prozent tun würden.Die hier aufgeführten Aspekte zeigen eine recht große Übereinstimmung hinsichtlich demographischer, sozioökonomischer und politischer Einstellungen der Protesteinehmerenden, die im folgenden Kapitel auch hinsichtlich ihrer Motive für die Protestteilnehme verglichen werden.3.2 Welche Motive haben die Protestteilnehmer:innen?3.2.1 Pegida-ProtesteDie Motive für die Teilnahme an den Pegia-Protesten in Dresden sind vielfältig. Generell lassen sich die Motive als allgemeine Unzufriedenheit mit politischen Entscheidungen und deren Kommunikation beschreiben (Vorländer, Herold, & Schäller 2015, S. 63). Bei der Umfrage des Dresdner Forscherteams Vorländer, Herold und Schäller gaben über 71 Prozent der Befragten dies als eines der Hauptmotive für die Teilnahme an den Pegida-Protesten an. Weitere wichtige Teilnahmemotive waren Kritik an Medien und Öffentlichkeit (34,5 Prozent), grundlegende Vorbehalte gegenüber Zuwanderern und Asylbewerbern (31,2 Prozent) sowie Protest gegen religiös oder ideologisch motivierte Gewalt (10,3 Prozent) [11] (ebd. S. 59). Sonstige Motive nannten 21,9 Prozent.Betrachtet man die Antwortengruppe 'Unzufriedenheit mit politischen Entscheidungen und deren Kommunikation' genauer, waren die am häufigsten gegebenen Antworten 'Unzufriedenheit mit der Asylpolitik' und 'Allgemein empfundene Diskrepanz zwischen Volk und Politikern' mit jeweils über 25 Prozent (ebd. S. 62). Zudem wurden häufig die 'Unzufriedenheit mit dem politischen System der Bundesrepublik', 'Unzufriedenheit mit Zuwanderungs- und Integrationspolitik', 'Allgemeine Unzufriedenheit mit der Politik' sowie 'Unzufriedenheit mit der Wirtschafts- und Sozialpolitik' genannt (ebd.).Daraus resultiert, dass rund 34 Prozent (bereinigt von Doppelnennungen) der Befragten allgemein mit der Integrations-, Asyl- oder Sicherheitspolitik der Regierung unzufrieden sind (ebd. S. 63). Generell scheinen grundlegende Vorbehalte gegenüber Zuwanderung, insbesondere aus dem islamischen Raum, eines der Hauptmotive für die Teilnahme zu sein.Wirft man einen genaueren Blick auf die Kategorie 'Grundlegende Vorbehalte gegenüber Zuwanderern und Asylbewerbern', geben 15,4 Prozent der Befragten an, allgemeine Vorbehalte gegenüber Muslimen bzw. dem Islam zu haben (Vorländer, Herold, & Schäller 2015, S. 69). Die Angst vor sozioökonomischer Benachteiligung, Sorge um hohe Kriminalität von Asylbewerbern und die Furcht vor eigenem Identitätsverlust und 'Überfremdung' werden ebenfalls häufig als zentrale Motive für die Teilnahme genannt (ebd.).In einem Positionspapier fordern die Organisatoren von Pegida entsprechend eine im Grundgesetz verankerte Integrationspflicht für Geflüchtete, um einer "Islamisierung des Abendlandes" und damit verbundenen "Glaubenskriegen auf deutschem Boden" entgegenzuwirken (Antifa Recherche Team Dresden 2016, S. 45).Laut Organisator:innen gibt Pegida all den Menschen eine Stimme, die sich "überfremdet, benachteiligt und in ihrer Identität bedroht fühlen" (ebd. S. 35), um zu verhindern, dass Asylsuchende Geld vom Staat bekommen, während ein Großteil der Bevölkerung sich das alltägliche Leben nicht mehr leisten kann. Hierbei gibt es Überschneidungen zwischen den Kategorien 'Unzufriedenheit mit der Wirtschafts- und Sozialpolitik' und der allgemeinen Angst, das eigene Leben nicht mehr finanzieren zu können, sowie der 'Angst vor sozioökonomischer Benachteiligung' durch Einwanderung.Obwohl rund 34 Prozent der Antworten das Themenfeld Integrations-, Asyl- und Sicherheitspolitik als Motiv für die Protestteilnahme angeben, wurde von lediglich 24,2 Prozent der Befragten explizit der Islam, Islamismus und Islamisierung als Grund genannt (Vorländer, Herold, & Schäller 2015, S. 72).Neben den Themen Zuwanderung, Asyl und Islam ist auch die kritische bis ablehnende Haltung gegenüber Öffentlichkeit und Medien, insbesondere gegenüber dem öffentlich-rechtlichen Rundfunk eines der Hauptmotive für die Teilnahme an den Pegida-Demonstrationen. Der Begriff der 'Lügenpresse' verdeutlicht die Wut und ablehnende Haltung gegenüber Vertretern der Medien und den Medien als Institution.21,2 Prozent der Befragten äußerten entsprechend eine allgemeine Unzufriedenheit mit der Berichterstattung der Medien und 18,4 Prozent kritisieren eine diffamierende Berichterstattung über die Pegida-Proteste (Vorländer, Herold, & Schäller 2015; S. 66.). Oft wird dabei pauschalisierend Kritik an der politischen Einstellung und an der Arbeit von Medienvertretern geübt (ebd. S. 67). Anhänger der Pegida-Bewegung bemängeln zudem, dass sie zu wenig im öffentlichen Diskurs gehört werden und die Sorgen und Ängste nicht ernst genommen werden. Zudem wird beklagt, dass der Öffentlichkeit Informationen vorenthalten werden (ebd. S. 68). Am Rande der Demonstrationen ist entsprechend eine aufgeladene Stimmung gegenüber Vertretern der Medien sowie eine Weigerung, mit Medienvertretern zu sprechen, zu beobachten.3.2.2 Querdenker-ProtesteSo vielfältig wie die Protestteilnehmer:innen sind auch die Motive für die Teilnahme. Trotz der Heterogenität vereint alle der zentrale Aspekt, gegen etwas zu sein (Frei, Schäfer, & Nachtwey 2021, S. 251). Ein Hauptgrund für die Teilnahme bilden die durch die Krise hervorgebrachten sozialen Ungleichheiten und die hierdurch verursachte wahrgenommene Benachteiligung in unterschiedlichsten Bereichen (Koos 2022, S. 73).Befragungen von Koos (2022, S. 73) bei der Demonstration in Konstanz im Herbst 2022 zeigen, dass weniger die persönliche Betroffenheit Grund für die Teilnahme ist, sondern vielmehr die gesamtgesellschaftlichen Auswirkungen der getroffenen Maßnahmen ausschlaggebend sind. Lediglich rund 20 Prozent der Befragten nannten unmittelbare finanzielle Auswirkungen als ein Teilnahmemotiv (ebd.).Hauptsächlich spielt die Sorge um die eigene familiäre Situation eine Rolle. 39 Prozent (der Studie von Nachtwey, Schäfer, & Frei [2022, S. 16] zufolge rund 34 Prozent) der Befragten gaben an, dass durch die getroffenen Maßnahmen zur Eindämmung des Pandemiegeschehens übermäßig hohe Belastungen für Familien entstanden sind (Koos 2022, S. 74). Dies ist auch vor dem Hintergrund zu sehen, dass Nachtwey und Kollegen (2021, bei ihrer Umfrage eine 80-prozentige Zustimmung zur Aussage über die Willkürlichkeit der Corona-Maßnahmen ermittelten und dass rund 95 Prozent der Aussage, die Regierung dramatisiere oder übertreibe die Corona-Problematik,k zustimmten bzw. voll und ganz zustimmten (Nachtwey, Schäfer, & Frei 2022, S. 14f.).Größter Kritikpunkt an den Maßnahmen sind die temporären Einschränkungen der Grundrechte, wie Ausgangsbegrenzungen und Kontaktverbote. 80 Prozent der Befragten nannten die negativen Auswirkungen der Maßnahmen auf die eigenen Grundrechte als einen der Hauptgründe, sich an den Querdenker-Protesten zu beteiligen (Koos 2022, S. 75). Zudem stimmten 95 Prozent der Befragten der Aussage zu, dass die Corona-Maßnahmen die Meinungsfreiheit und Demokratie bedrohen (Nachtwey, Schäfer, & Frei 2022, S. 17).Als Einschränkung der Grundrechte wird auch die Verpflichtung zum Tragen von Masken gesehen. Teilnehmer:innen behaupteten hierbei, dass es durch das Tragen der Maske zu Todesfällen in Deutschland gekommen sei (Gensing 2020). Entsprechend stimmen über 88 Prozent der Befragten der Aussage zu, dass Maskenpflicht Kindesmissbrauch sei (Nachtwey, Schäfer, & Frei 2022, S. 18). Auch aufgrund der temporären Schulschließungen ist der Schutz von Kindern unter den Motiven der Demonstrationsteilnehmer:innen zu finden und rückte mit zunehmendem Verlauf des Corona-Protestgeschehens vermehrt in den Fokus der Debatte.Neben Kritik an den konkret aufgrund der Corona-Pandemie getroffenen Maßnahmen durch die Bundesregierung ist auch die allgemeine Kritik an Regierung und Parlament eine der Hauptmotivationen. So gaben 88 Prozent der Befragten an, kein Vertrauen in die Regierung zu haben (Koos 2022, S. 79). Gleiches gilt für den Bundestag. In das Parlament und die gewählten Abgeordneten haben nur 4 Prozent Vertrauen (ebd.). Eine Mehrheit von 77 Prozent hat dabei das Vertrauen in das politische System verloren (ebd. S. 80). Dennoch lehnen 94 Prozent eine Diktatur als möglicherweise bessere Staatsform ab (ebd.). Der Aussage, dass 'Medien und die Politik unter einer Decke stecken' stimmen rund 77 Prozent der Teilnehmer in der Befragung von Nachtwey, Schäfer, & Frei (2022, S. 17) zu.Entsprechend groß ist die Ablehnung gegenüber etablierten Medien (91 Prozent) (Koos 2022, S. 79). Die oftmals als einseitig empfundene Berichterstattung von den Corona-Protesten, vermeintlich tendenzielle Berichterstattung und das mutmaßliche Zurückhalten wichtiger Informationen werden oft als Hauptgründe für die ablehnende Haltung gegenüber etablierten Medien, insbesondere dem öffentlich-rechtlichen Rundfunk genannt (Frei, Schäfer, & Nachtwey 2021, S. 225). Konkret wird den Medien 'Angstmacherei' vorgeworfen mit dem Ziel, die Menschen zu verunsichern. Die Teilnehmer:innen bezeichnen sich daher oftmals selbst als besonders kritische Menschen, die Dinge hinterfragen und gegen die "mediale Desinformation" (ebd. S. 256) vorgehen und aufklären wollen.Waren im Frühjahr und Herbst 2020 noch die von der Bundesregierung getroffenen Maßnahmen und deren Auswirkungen, wie Lockdown, Schulschließungen und Maskentrageverordnung, der Hauptgrund für die Teilnahme an den Querdenker-Demonstrationen, wandelten sich die Motive im Lauf der Zeit. Mit der Entwicklung von Corona-Impfstoffen, deren Zulassung und den anschließenden, im Frühjahr und Sommer 2021 groß angelegten Impfkampagnen, wurde vermehrt auch die Kritik an einer vermeintlichen Zwangsimpfung und die Diskriminierung Ungeimpfter zum zentralen Motiv (Verfassungsschutz Nordrhein-Westfalen 2022, S. 3).Entsprechend konnten sich 70 Prozent der Befragten vorstellen, dass einflussreiche Geschäftsleute die Menschheit zwangsimpfen lassen wollen, um so persönlich davon zu profitieren (Koos 2022, S. 77). Allgemein haben Verschwörungstheorien und eine darauf aufbauende "Realität" großen Einfluss, die Motive der Teilnehmer:innen betreffend. Unter den Befragten können sich 75 Prozent vorstellen, dass Wissenschaftler gezielt manipulieren, Tatsachen erfinden oder Beweise zurückhalten, um die Öffentlichkeit zu täuschen (ebd.).Zwar haben 37 Prozent der Befragten Vertrauen in die Wissenschaft, dieser vergleichsweise hohe Wert könnte aber auch darauf zurückgeführt werden, dass sich im Lauf der Pandemie eine Vielzahl selbsternannter Experten etabliert hat, deren Wissen und Expertise gleichgesetzt wurde mit Wissen von Experten, die dem etablierten Wissenschaftssystem zuzuordnen sind (ebd. S. 79). Hauptkritikpunkt ist dabei die Nichtproduktion eindeutiger Ergebnisse und die Anpassung von Empfehlungen aufgrund neuster Erkenntnisse, die oftmals zu Verwirrung und Irritationen führten.Es bleibt festzuhalten, dass sich berechtigte Kritik an den Corona-Maßnahmen mit inhaltlich diffuser Kritik (Frei, Schäfer, & Nachtwey 2021, S. 257) mischt, was zu einer wirren Verflechtung von Tatsachen mit Verschwörungserzählungen führt, die schließlich zur Teilnahme an den Querdenker-Demonstrationen führen.3.2.3 Gemeinsamkeiten und UnterschiedeZu den Gemeinsamkeiten beider Protestgruppen lässt sich zunächst herausstellen, dass beide sehr heterogen zusammengesetzt sind und eine Vielzahl von Motiven die Menschen zur Teilnahme an den Protesten veranlasst. In beiden Gruppen ist eines der Hauptmotive die allgemeine Unzufriedenheit mit Mandatsträgern und politischen Entscheidungen im allgemeinen.Beide Gruppen unterscheiden sich hinsichtlich des konkreten Anlasses für die Proteste. Während der Hauptauslöser für die Pegida-Proteste in der Asylpolitik der Regierung, der mangelnden Kommunikation bei der Unterbringung von Geflüchteten sowie in einer vermeintlichen Überfremdung Deutschlands liegen, resultierte die Unzufriedenheit bei den Querdenker-Protesten hauptsächlich aus den Grundrechtseinschränkungen, die die Corona-Pandemie eindämmen sollten, sowie später aus der vermeintlichen Diskriminierung von Ungeimpften.Auch wenn sich die konkreten Anlässe unterscheiden, ist der Auslöser für die jeweiligen Proteste eine aktuelle Gegebenheit, die aufgegriffen und instrumentalisiert wird. Die Proteste beziehen sich dabei nicht nur auf den konkreten Anlass, sondern lassen sich als allgemeine Unzufriedenheit interpretieren. Was beide Gruppen gemein haben, ist die generelle Ablehnung von Politik und der Vertrauensverlust in Politik und Politiker. Waren es bei den Pegida-Protesten rund 71 Prozent, die angaben, mit politischen Entscheidungen unzufrieden zu sein, nannten bei der Befragung bei einer Querdenken-Kundgebung in Konstanz 88 Prozent der Teilnehmer:innen dies als Grund für die Teilnahme.Hier zeigt sich eine Zunahme der Unzufriedenheit. Dies ist vermutlich auch darauf zurückzuführen, dass die Menschen aufgrund der Corona-Maßnahmen direkter von Regierungsentscheidungen betroffen sind und diese auch das tägliche Leben betreffen. Bei beiden Umfragen zeigt sich besondere eine ablehnende Haltung gegenüber politischen Mandatsträgern, die sich nach Ansicht vieler Befragter zu weit vom einfachen Bürger entfernt haben und nicht mehr im Sinne des Volkes handeln.Bei beiden Protestbewegungen konnte zudem eine ablehnende Haltung gegenüber etablierten Medien beobachtet werden. Dies zeigte sich zum einen in der Verweigerung, mit Medien zusammenzuarbeiten, als auch in verbalen und teilweise handgreiflichen Übergriffen auf Medienvertreter:innen. Sowohl bei Querdenker-Kundgebungen als auch bei Pegida-Demonstrationen hat sich der Begriff 'Lügenpresse', als Ausdruck einer kritischen Haltung gegenüber Medien etabliert. Häufig wird zudem eine tendenziöse, abwertende Berichterstattung von den Protestkundgebungen und ein absichtliches Zurückhalten von vermeintlich wichtiger Informationen für die ablehnende Haltung genannt.Sowohl bei den Protesten der Querdenker-Bewegung gegen die Corona-Politik als auch bei den Pegida-Protesten spielt die Angst vor einer sozioökonomischen Benachteiligung eine wichtige Rolle, wenngleich die Angst unterschiedlich begründet wird. Während dies bei Pegida-Anhängern durch die Zuwanderung von Menschen mit muslimischem Glauben und damit verbundener größerer Konkurrenz um Arbeitsplätze sowie der durch Einwanderung veränderten Verteilung der zur Verfügung stehenden Mittel auf mehr Personen begründet wird, argumentieren Anhänger der Querdenker-Bewegung dahingehend, dass mit den von der Politik getroffenen Maßnahmen, die das öffentliche Leben einschränken, die Lebensgrundlage wegfällt. Auch wenn viele der Teilnehmer:innen angaben, von den Maßnahmen nicht unmittelbar betroffen zu sein, zeigt sich die Angst besonders bei Selbständigen, die aufgrund der Maßnahmen ihrer Berufstätigkeit nicht mehr nachgehen können.Auch hinsichtlich des Glaubens an Verschwörungstheorien gibt es eine Schnittmenge zwischen beiden Protestphänomenen. Zentral ist die Idee einer geheimen Machtelite, die negativen Einfluss auf das Volk nehmen möchte. Bei den Pegida-Protesten wird dieses Narrativ untermauert von dem Glauben an eine "Umvolkung", also dem Austausch der Deutschen durch zugewanderte Flüchtlinge aus dem islamischen Raum. Von der Unterdrückung des Volkes durch die getroffenen Maßnahmen und die vermeintliche Absicht, die Menschen durch die Corona-Impfung zu reduzieren oder zumindest durch das Einpflanzen eines Computerchips unter die Kontrolle einer Machtelite zu bringen, sind zentrale Erzählungen bei Querdenker-Kundgebungen.Auch wenn sich die Protestbewegungen in ihren eigentlichen Auslösern unterscheiden, gibt es die Motive betreffend erstaunlich viele Überschneidungen. Die Einwanderung bzw. der Protest gegen die Corona-Maßnahmen sind in beiden Fällen ein allgemeiner Ausdruck angestauter politischer Unzufriedenheit, der sich im Kontext der konkreten Anlässe entlädt. 3.3 Das rechtsradikale Potential der Protestbewegungen3.3.1 Pegida-ProtesteAuch wenn die Studie von Vorländer, Herold & Schäller vermuten lässt, dass die Pegida-Teilnehmer:innen vorwiegend aus der Mitte der Gesellschaft kommen, stellt dies kein Grund zur Verharmlosung dar (Kokyba 2016, S. 149). Oftmals wird dieser Studie vorgeworfen, das rechtsradikale Potenzial der Protestbewegung zu unterschätzen. Als Hauptgrund wird angeführt, dass eine Vielzahl von Teilnehmenden sich weigern, an wissenschaftlichen Umfragen teilzunehmen, und dass diejenigen, die mit wissenschaftlichen Institutionen sprechen, eher der gemäßigten Mitte zuzuordnen sind und daher das Ergebnis in Richtung gemäßigter Ansichten verzerren.Als Indiz für eine rechtsradikale Gesinnung kann allein die Teilnahme an einer Kundgebung unter dem islamfeindlichen Motto 'Patriotische Europäer gegen die Islamisierung des Abendlandes' angesehen werden (ebd. S. 152). Auch kann eine solche Gesinnung aus den Rednern und den Inhalten von Reden im Rahmen der Kundgebungen abgeleitet werden.Bei der Kundgebung zum einjährigen Bestehen von Pegida am 19. Oktober 2015 war Akif Pirinçci einer der Hauptredner. Pirinçci, der offen rechtspopulistische und islamfeindliche Positionen vertritt und zudem aufgrund diverser Äußerungen rechtskräftig verurteilt wurde, sprach bei der genannten Veranstaltung unter anderem von der "Moslemmüllhalde" Deutschland und warf Politikern vor, als "Gauleiter gegen das eigene Volk" zu agieren (Spiegel.de 2015). Wegen dieser Äußerungen und auch der Aussage "die KZs sind leider derzeit außer Betrieb" wurde die Rede schließlich nach 25 Minuten abgebrochen und Pirinçci im Anschluss wegen Volksverhetzung zu einer Geldstrafe verurteilt (ebd.).Offiziell grenzt sich Pegida zwar immer wieder von rechtsextremen Positionen ab, die Bewegung mobilisiert jedoch eine rechtspopulistisch rebellierende Bevölkerung, die sich aus der Mitte der Bevölkerung her rekrutiert und den Anspruch erhebt, das Volk zu repräsentieren (Nachtwey 2016, S. 210). Eine Studie von Daphi et al. (2015: S. 22f.) zeigt zudem, dass über 59 Prozent der Pegida-Anhänger bei der Landtagswahl in Sachsen 2014 der AfD ihre Stimme gegeben haben. Somit hat eine Partei, die zwar im Bundestag vertreten ist, aber in Teilen aufgrund von verfassungswidrigen Positionen vom Verfassungsschutz beobachtet wird, eine absolute Mehrheit unter den Pegida-Anhängern erzielen können.Vorländer, Herold & Schäller (2016, S. 116) stellen jedoch auch heraus, dass sich die rechtsradikale und ausländerfeindliche Einstellung der Pegida-Teilnehmer in Dresden nicht wesentlich von Werten in West- bzw. Gesamtdeutschland unterscheiden. Es bleibt festzuhalten, dass die Pegida-Bewegung keine "originär" (Nachtwey 2016, S 1) rechtsextreme Bewegung ist, jedoch das rechtsextreme Potenzial nicht unterschätzt werden darf.3.3.2 Querdenker-ProtesteDer Sonderbericht des nordrhein-westfälischen Innenministeriums bescheinigt der Querdenker-Bewegung, dass einzelne Personen und Bewegungen aus der rechtsextremistischen Szene Einfluss nehmen und die Bewegung für ihre eigene Agenda zu instrumentalisieren versuchen (Verfassungsschutz Nordrhein-Westfalen 2022, S. 34). Zudem wurden bei den Kundgebungen rechtsextremistische Inhalte geteilt, bei gleichzeitigem Bemühen, einen demokratischen und rechtsstaatlichen Anschein zu wahren (Stern 2021, S. 2).Der Bericht bezieht sich dabei auf eine hohe Ablehnung des Rechtsstaates, die sich jedoch laut der Umfrage von Koos (2022, S. 80) nur bedingt bestätigen lässt. 96 Prozent der Teilnehmenden widersprechen zumindest der Aussage, dass eine Diktatur eine möglicherweise bessere Regierungsform sei. Dennoch lässt sich bei den Kundgebungen eine gewisse antisemitische sowie anti-rechtsstaatliche Haltung finden, die sich vor allem in diversen Verschwörungserzählungen ausdrücken. Einer der Protagonisten in Berlin, Attila Hildmann, behauptete beispielsweise am Rande einer Kundgebung, jüdische Familien wollen die "deutsche Rasse auslöschen" (Leber 2020).Der Verfassungsschutz von Nordrhein-Westfalen schätzte im Dezember 2020 zudem, dass rund 10 Prozent der Demonstranten Rechtsextreme oder Reichsbürger sind (Grande, Hutter, Hunger & Kanol 2021, S. 22). Einer Umfrage von Grande et al. (2021, S. 22) zufolge sind 7,5 Prozent der Protestierenden dem rechten Rand zuzuordnen. Zwar ist dies nur eine Minderheit, die jedoch aufgrund ihres Mobilisierungspotentials nicht vernachlässigt werden darf, zumal 40 Prozent der Befragten rechtsextreme Positionen zustimmungsfähig finden (ebd.). Die Umfragen haben zudem gezeigt, dass sich das rechtsextreme Potenzial im Lauf der Zeit verstärkt hat. Vergleicht man die erste Protestwelle mit der zweiten, stieg der Zustimmungswert von knapp über 30 Prozent auf über 40 Prozent (Grande et al. 2021, S. 23).Dieses Potenzial zeigt sich auch, wenn Teilnehmer:innen mit Reichskriegsflaggen die Absetzung der Regierung fordern. Am Rande der Kundgebung in Berlin Ende August 2022 versuchte schließlich eine Gruppe von Corona-Gegnern, den Reichstag zu stürmen und die Regierung zu stürzen (Patenburg, Reichhardt, Sepp 2021, S. 3). Zudem sind häufig Forderungen zu hören, die Verantwortlichen für die Corona-Maßnahmen bei einer Neuauflage der Nürnberger Prozesse zur Rechenschaft zu ziehen (Virchow 2022). Diese und weitere aus der NS-Zeit abgeleitete Semantik ist ein weiteres Indiz für die Nähe von Querdenkern zu rechtsradikalen Positionen.Zu beobachten ist zudem, dass sich immer wieder bekannte Neonazis unter die Demonstranten mischen. Diese nutzen die friedlichen Demonstrationen, um unter dem Deckmantel 'Corona' rechtsradikale Thesen zu verbreiten. Hierbei besteht insbesondere die Gefahr, dass friedliche Menschen aus der Mitte der Gesellschaft für eine rechtsradikale Agenda missbraucht werden. Abschließend kann herausgestellt werden, dass der zunächst friedliche Protest zunehmend von Anhängern rechtsradikaler Bewegungen unterlaufen und zunehmend für rechte Zwecke missbraucht wurde.3.3.3 Gemeinsamkeiten und UnterschiedeSowohl die Pegida-Proteste als auch die Querdenker-Kundgebungen rekrutieren ihre Teilnehmer:innen aus der Mitte der Gesellschaft. Obwohl sie den Anschein einer bürgerlichen Protestbewegung haben, ist ein rechtsextremistisches Potenzial nicht zu unterschätzen. Forschungen zeigen, dass bei beiden Bewegungen eine rechtsradikale Minderheit unter den Teilnehmenden vertreten ist, die die Proteste für eigene Zwecke zu instrumentalisieren versucht. Entsprechend konnte bei beiden Bewegungen eine zunehmende Radikalisierung festgestellt werdenCharakteristisch für beide Bewegungen ist zudem eine allgemeine Ablehnung von Rechtsstaat und politischen Institutionen. Dies zeigt sich auch im Wahlverhalten. Bei beiden Protestphänomenen identifizieren sich nur wenige Teilnehmenden mit einer der etablierten Parteien und gaben an, bei der kommenden Wahl eine 'andere Partei' wählen zu wollen.Unter den im Bundestag vertretenen Parteien kann lediglich die AfD einen nennenswerten Stimmenanteil auf sich vereinen. Auch hierbei zeigt sich das rechtsradikale Potenzial der Proteste. Die AfD ist zwar im Bundestag vertreten, doch werden einzelne Mitglieder und Landesparteien vom Verfassungsschutz beobachtet. Diese Haltung zeigt sich teilweise auch in Verschwörungserzählungen, die oftmals als Rechtfertigung für die Proteste herangezogen werden. Zudem sind bei beiden Protesten nationalistische Symbole wie die Reichskriegsflagge zu beobachten und Reden eindeutig rechter nationalistischer Personen zu hören.Was beide Protestgruppen unterscheidet, ist die ursprüngliche Intention, mit der die Menschen auf die Straße gegangen sind. Während bei Pegida von vorneherein eine eindeutig nationalistische, auch rechtsradikale Positionierung zu erkennen war, war die ursprüngliche Intention der Querdenker-Demonstrierenden gegen die aus ihrer Sicht unsinnigen Corona-Maßnahmen zu demonstrieren. Erst später bildeten sich auch hier nationalistische und rechtsradikale Züge heraus. Hier kann als Höhepunkt dieser Entwicklung der 'Sturm auf den Reichstag' genannt werden. Es beliebt festzuhalten, dass sich bei beiden Protestgruppen legitime Anliegen mit rechtsradikalen Positionen vermischen, was die Proteste so gefährlich macht.4. Zusammenfassung und AusblickIn der hier vorliegenden Arbeit wurden die Querdenker-Proteste in Folge der Corona-Pandemie und die aus dem vermehrten Zuzug islamischer Flüchtlinge resultierenden Pegida-Proteste miteinander verglichen sowie Gemeinsamkeiten und Unterschiede aufgezeigt. In einem ersten Schritt wurde die Chronologie der Protestbewegungen dargestellt und anschließend hinsichtlich dreier spezifischer Merkmale miteinander verglichen.Im Hinblick auf demografische und sozioökonomische Aspekte sowie dem Wahlverhalten sind sich die Teilnehmenden an beiden Protestphänomenen recht ähnlich. Die im Schnitt 48 Jahre alten Demonstrationsteilnehmer:innen sind zumeist Angestellte oder Arbeiter, wobei der Anteil an Selbständigen recht hoch ist. Politisch fühlt sich eine Mehrheit nicht von den etablierten politischen Parteien ausreichend vertreten und würde daher bei der kommenden Wahl eine 'andere Partei' wählen. Es konnte zudem gezeigt werden, dass bei Pegida- und Querdenker-Protesten die AfD als einzige der im Bundestag vertreten Parteien eine nennenswerte Wählerschaft anspricht.Auch in Bezug auf die Motive zeigte sich eine erhebliche Schnittmenge zwischen Teilnehmer:innen der Pegida- und Querdenker-Demonstrationen. Beide Phänomene nehmen aktuelle politische Entscheidungen als Demonstrationsanlass, die aber lediglich als Katalysator für aufgestaute Wut und Enttäuschungen wirken. Entsprechend wurde gezeigt, dass allgemeine Unzufriedenheit mit Politik, Regierung und Mandatsträgern ein zentrales Motiv für die Proteste ist.Hinzu kommt die Kritik an Medien, tendenziöse Berichterstattung zu betreiben und voreingenommen über die Proteste zu berichten. Zudem würden zentrale Informationen gezielt nicht weitergegeben, um so die Menschen gezielt zu täuschen und wahre Beweggründe politischer Entscheidungen zu verschweigen. Hier zeigte sich auch die Anfälligkeit der Proteste für Verschwörungstheorien, die auch Einfluss auf Wissensbasis und Motive haben.Abschließend wurde das rechtsradikale Potenzial der Bewegungen aufgezeigt. Beide Bewegungen haben sich dabei aus der Mitte der Gesellschaft hin an den rechten Rand bewegt, wobei die Pegida-Kundgebungen von Beginn an eher rechts zu verorten waren. Größtes Problem ist die Instrumentalisierung der Proteste durch rechte Gruppen, die unter dem Deckmantel friedlicher Proteste mit Menschen aus der Mitte der Gesellschaft rechtsradikale Propaganda gesellschaftsfähig machen wollen.Die hier untersuchten Kategorien bilden die beiden Protestphänomene bei weitem nicht vollständig ab. Es ist daher nötig, weitere Vergleiche anzustellen. Beispielsweise wäre es noch interessant zu ermitteln, inwiefern sich die Protestkundgebungen in puncto Wahrnehmung in der Bevölkerung unterscheiden oder inwiefern sich Politik und Regierung mit den Protesten auseinandergesetzt haben. Überdies sollte noch erforscht werden, wie die Teilnehmer:innen das Vertrauen in Politik zurückgewinnen können und was getan werden muss, um bei zukünftigen politischen Krisen ähnliche Protestbewegungen zu verhindern.Abschließend bleibt festzuhalten, dass wir uns zukünftig vermutlich häufiger mit solchen Formen des Protestes auseinandersetzen müssen. Im Zuge der Energiekrise, resultierend aus dem russischen Angriffskrieg und den Sanktionen gegen Russland, haben erste Verbände und Parteien dazu aufgerufen, den Unmut über Regierungsentscheidungen auf die Straße zu tragen und gegen die Regierenden zu demonstrieren. Es bleibt also abzuwarten, ob sich in den kommenden Monaten eine Protestbewegung, ähnlich wie die Pegida- und Querdenker-Proteste, entwickelt.5. LiteraturverzeichnisAntifa Recherche Team Dresden. (2016). Pegida: Entwicklung einer rechten Bewegung. In T. Heim (Hrsg.), Pegida als Spiegel und Projektionsfläche (S. 33-54). Wiesbaden: Springer VS.Bundesministerium für Gesundheit. (06. 08. 2022). Coronavirus-Pandemie: Was geschah wann? Abgerufen am 13.08.2022 von https://www.bundesgesundheitsministerium.de/coronavirus/chronik-coronavirus.htmlBundeststelle für Sektenfragen. (2021). Das Phänomen Verschwörungstheorien in Zeiten der COVID-19-Pandemie. Bericht der Bundesstelle für Sektenfragen an die Bundesministerin für Frauen, Familie, Jugend und Integration .Wien.Frei, N., & Nachtwey, O. (2021). Wer sind die Querdenker_innen? Demokratie im Ausnachmezustand. Wie vrändert die Coronakrise Recht, Politik und Gesellschaft? (Friedrich-Ebert-Stiftung, Hrsg.).Frei, N., Schäfer, R., & Nachtwey, O. (26.06.2021). Die Proteste gegen die Corona-Maßnahmen: Eine soziologische Annäherung. Forschungsjournal Soziale Bewegungen, S. 249-258.Geiges, L., Marg, S., & Walter, F. (2015). Pegida. Die schmutzige Seite der Zivilgesellschaft? Bielefeld: transcript Verlag.Gensing, P. (09. 30. 2020). Gezielte Gerüchte über Todesfälle durch Maske. Abgerufen am 16.08. 2022 von https://www.tagesschau.de/faktenfinder/corona-kritiker-101.htmlGrande, E., Hutter, S., Hunger, S., & Kanol, E. (2021). Alles Covidioten? Politische Potenziale des Corona-Protests in Deutschland. Berlin: Wissenschaftszentrum Berlin für Sozialforschung gGmbH.Holzer, B., Koos, S., Meyer, C., Otto, I., Panreck, I., & Reichardt, S. (2021). Einleitung: Protest in der Pandemie. In S. Reichardt (Hrsg.), Die Misstrauensgemeinschaft der "Querdenker" : Die Corona-Proteste aus kultur- und sozialwissenschaftlicher Perspektive (S. 7-26). Frankfurt: Campus Verlag.Imöhl, S., & Ivanov, A. (12.06.2021). Bundesregierung bestellt 80 Millionen Dosen Omikron-Impfstoff bei Biontech. Die Zusammenfassung der aktuellen Lage seit Ausbruch von Covid-19 im Januar 2020. Abgerufen am 13.08.2022 von https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/corona-chronik-bundesregierung-bestellt-80-millionen-dosen-omikron-impfstoff-bei-biontech/25584942.htmlJacobsen, L. (23.12.2021). Selbst ihr Weihnachtsmann ist wütend. Abgerufen am 12.08.2022 von https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2014-12/pegida-weihnachten-singen-dresdenKocyba, P. (2016). Wieso Pegida keine Bewegung harmloser, besorgter Bürger ist. In K. Rehberg, F. Kunz, & T. Schlinzig (Hrsg.), PEGIDA - Rechtspopulismus zwischen Fremdenangst und »Wende«-Enttäuschung? (S. 147-164). Bielefeld: transcript Verlag.Koos, S. (2022). Konturen einer hetrerogenen 'Misstrauensgemeinschaft': Die soziale Zusammensetzung der Corona-Prosteste und die Motive der Teilnehmer:innen. In S. Reichardt (Hrsg.), Die Misstrauensgemeinschaft der 'Querdenker'. Bonn: Campus Verlag.Leber, S. (20.06.2020). Attila Hildmann gibt Juden die Schuld – und verteidigt Hitler. Abgerufen am 21.08.2022 von Der Tagesspiegel: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/themen/reportage/antisemitismus-im-netz-attila-hildmann-gibt-juden-die-schuld-und-verteidigt-hitler/25930880.htmlNachtwey, O. (2016). PEGIDA, politische Gelegenheitsstrukturen und der neue Autoritarismus. In K. Rehberg, F. Kunz, & T. Schlinzig (Hrsg.), PEGIDA - Rechtspopulismus zwischen Fremdenangst und »Wende«-Enttäuschung?(S. 299-312). Bielefeld: transcript Verlag.Nachtwey, O., Schäfer, R., & Frei, N. (2022). Politische Soziologie der Corona-Proteste. Von https://doi.org/10.31235/osf.io/zyp3f abgerufen am 21.08.2022Röpke, A. (04.11.2013). Rechter Aufruhr in Schneeberg. Abgerufen am 12.08.2022 von https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/schneeberg-in-sachsen-rechter-protest-gegen-fluechtlinge-a-931711.htmlReichardt, S., Pantenburg, J., & Sepp, B. (2021). Corona-Proteste und das (Gegen-)Wissen sozialer Bewegungen. Aus Politik und Zeitgeschichte (APuZ), 22-27.Spiegel.de. (20.10.2015). Eklat bei Pegida-Demo :"Die KZs sind ja leider derzeit außer Betrieb". Abgerufen am 22.08.2022 von https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/akif-pirincci-rede-bei-pegida-in-dresden-abgebrochen-a-1058589.html Stern, Verena (2021): Die Profiteure der Angst? - Rechtspopulismus und die COVID-19-Krise in Europa; Friedrich Ebert Stiftung, online unter https://library.fes.de/pdf-files/dialog/17736-20210512.pdf.Tageschau. (20.10.2019). Protest in Dresden: Menschen demonstrieren gegen "Pegida". Abgerufen am 12.08.2022 von https://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-610155.htmlVerfassungsschutz Nordrhein-Westfalen. (2022). Sonderbericht zu Verschwörungsmythen und "Corona- Protestlern" . Ministerium des Innern des Landes Nordrhein-Westfalen , Düsseldorf.Virchow, F. (01.03.2022). Querdenken und Verschwörungserzählungen in Zeiten der Pandemie. Abgerufen am 2021.08.2022 von Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung: https://www.bpb.de/themen/rechtsextremismus/dossier-rechtsextremismus/508468/querdenken-und-verschwoerungserzaehlungen-in-zeiten-der-pandemie/Vorländer, H., Herold, M., & Schäller, S. (2015). Wer geht zu PEGIDA und warum? Eine empirische Untersuchung von PEGIDA Demonstranten in Dresden. Dresden: Zentrum für Verfassungs­ und Demokratieforschung.Vorländer, H., Herold, M., & Schäller, S. (2016). PEGIDA – eine rechtsextremistische Bewegung? In G. Pickel, & O. Decker (Hrsg.), Extemismus in Sachsen. Eine kritische Bestandsaufnahme. Dresden/Leipzig: Sächsische Landeszentrale für politische Bildung.Zeit Online. (06.02.2016). Pegida-Aktionstag bleibt überschaubar. Abgerufen am 12.08.2022 von https://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2016-02/pegida-aktionstag-europa-fluechtlinge-dresdenFußnoten[1] https://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/muenchen/pegida-teilnehmer-beschimpfen-hotel-gaeste-rassistisch-art-354308[2] https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/studie-der-tu-dresden-typischer-pegida-anhaenger-ist-48-maennlich-und-gut-gebildet-li.24398[3] https://www.fr.de/politik/leipzig-querdenker-demonstration-eskalation-angriff-journalisten-gruene-gewalt-verletzte-news-zr-91099309.html[4] https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/40-mutmassliche-Randalierer-bislang-ermittelt-article22295508.html[5] Quelle: Demonstrationskalender der Polizei Berlin, abzurufen unter: https://www.berlin.de/polizei/service/versammlungsbehoerde/versammlungen-aufzuege/ (abgerufen am 13.08.2022)[6] Vgl. Mikrozensus 2013. https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Querschnitt/Jahrbuch/statistisches-jahrbuch-2018-dl.pdf?__blob=publicationFile (zu beachten ist, dass die Daten aufgrund der zeitlichen Verschiebung nur eingeschränkt miteinander verglichen werden können, dennoch Tendenzen davon abgeleitet werden können.[7] Die Werte in Klammern beziehen sich auf die Studie von Nachtwey, Schäfer, & Frei 2022[8] Stimmanteil der AfD bei der Landtagswahl in Sachsen am 01. September 2019. Quelle:https://wahlen.sachsen.de/landtagswahl-2019-wahlergebnisse.php (angerufen am 14.08.2022)[9] Stimmanteil der AfD bei der Landtagswahl in Thüringen am 27. Oktober 2019 Quelle: https://www.wahlen.thueringen.de/datenbank/wahl1/wahl.asp?wahlart=LW&wJahr=2019&zeigeErg=Land (angerufen am 14.08.2022)[10] Stimmanteil der AfD bei der Landtagswahl Baden-Württemberg am 14. März 2021. Quelle: https://www.statistik-bw.de/Wahlen/Landtag/02035000.tab?R=LA (angerufen am 14.08.2022)[11] Die mehr als 100 Prozent sind auf Mehrfachnennungen der Befragten zurückzuführen.

Part one of an interview with Dorothy Giadone Poirier. Topics include: Where in Italy her grandparents came from and what they were like. Her father's work history. What her parents were like. The foods her mother would prepare. What her parents thought when Dottie's first marriage ended and their acceptance of her new husband. Memories of her family. Dottie is half Italian and half Sicilian. What family meals were like when Dottie was growing up. How Fitchburg, MA has changed over time. Her family moved to Leominster, MA. Her father's activity in the community and in politics. Memories of working in her father's furniture store. How her father got into the business. What it was like when her father passed away. What the customers were like at the furniture store. ; 1 DOTTIE: Oh, I bumped into her a lot at [Shritzer] or whatever. SPEAKER 1: [Unintelligible - 00:00:09]. DOTTIE: Joe and Alice. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. DOTTIE: A lot of times they say well, come by and have a drink before, and I say no I'm going out. Uh, so I met him in the parking lot, and he said you better not say you can't meet -- you can't come for breakfast. Oh, I says, no. I'll be there. SPEAKER 1: Okay. [Unintelligible - 00:00:27] with the Center for Italian Culture 1002, and being interviewed five minutes of eleven. So thank you, Dottie. DOTTIE: Pleasure. SPEAKER 1: So you were telling me a little bit about your father, your father Bill Giadone. DOTTIE: Yes. Yes. SPEAKER 1: And just how influential he was in Fitchburg. DOTTIE: Very, very. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. Can you tell me a little bit? Mm-hmm. LINDAY: Oh yes. His grand -- his mother and father both, they were still -- I mean, they didn't die until I was, had -- I was a young adult. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. DOTTIE: Uh, his father was a very typical Italian, very stern. Mother was the salt of the earth. Just a sweet lady. In fact, one time I made a comment, I says to my husband, "Gee, sorry you didn't meet my grandmother, you would have just adored her." And then I says, "My grandfather—this is no baloney—you would have gotten along good with him." So he was man's man, my grandfather. But as a child, you don't realize that and you became frightened of him. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. DOTTIE: If he said be quiet, be quiet, except my younger sister. SPEAKER 1: Where did they come from? DOTTIE: My grandfather came from a small town in Sicily called [Pepepezzia]. 2 SPEAKER 1: Would you know how to spell…? DOTTIE: [Unintelligible - 00:01:43]. SPEAKER 1: Okay. So he came from Sicily? DOTTIE: Yes. SPEAKER 1: What about your grandma? DOTTIE: My grandmother also. They were both -- came over. I'm not sure of the exact -- well, maybe if we kind of -- my father was born in 1908, and he came here when he was six years old. So that was 1913? SPEAKER 1: Fourteen. DOTTIE: Fourteen, yeah. So that's when they came here. And they settled in Fitchburg, but I'm not sure exactly where they -- well, I guess at one time they lived on Hale Street when they were kids. I mean, I don't remember. I mean, back when my father was a kid. And my father went to -- I think he went to start the sixth grade, and then he left, and he worked around here in a bakery shop, I guess. I think it was Padua. And when he was 15, 16 years old, he [unintelligible - 00:02:40] something for a young fella to do that. And, I guess he went with some fellas, his friends from the area, and they got an apartment. And the reason he started shaving with a straight razor, which because every time he went to shave his razors were gone or dull or whatever. So he says I'll fix them. I'm going to learn how to shave with a straight razor. So he shaved with a straight razor up until the time he got an electric razor. SPEAKER 1: Really. DOTTIE: Yeah. So as a kid growing up, he shaved with a -- he had the strap and he shaved with a straight razor. SPEAKER 1: So you remember watching him do that? DOTTIE: Yes. Yes. And then he said that he worked his way up to bellboy, bell captain. He worked for the Yale Club in New York, and he said he got an education there as being a bellboy with the guys from Yale. Also, while he was in New York, he said he only did it for a while because the people were not clean at [unintelligible - 00:04:00]. I guess he tried everything, 3 and he says -- my mother tells the story, and she said, "Well, he gave that up quickly because someone came in that wasn't clean," so your father says, not doing this. So then he came back to Fitchburg for maybe a visit, and at the time they would have dances, and that's how he met my mother. He was running a dance thing. And he started an oil business and married in '32, so almost right away, and he had that oil business -- I want to say until [Audies], and that's when he started a furniture store. Actually, it was -- he was selling appliances. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. Right on Water Street? DOTTIE: Right on Water Street. And then he had a small little store, and then he bought a larger store where we lived. The bottom part was the store, and then upstairs was -- we had a fairly large apartment. SPEAKER 1: And that was at 3 -- 320 Water Street. DOTTIE: 320 Water Street. SPEAKER 1: Now, the oil business that he started, do you remember -- do you know the name of that? DOTTIE: Yes. Giadone's. And then he also had a gas station. SPEAKER 1: Now, how did he get involved in that? Do you know? DOTTIE: I don't remember. All I know is he had the gas station and he also had the oil business. I guess he started the gas business as someplace to put his trucks. So -- and he also, I guess, they delivered ice at the time too. SPEAKER 1: Okay. Do you remember…? DOTTIE: My mother, Fiona [Barzarelli], she was in Fitchburg, and it came from [unintelligible - 00:06:01]. SPEAKER 1: Okay. So they first were connected in New York? DOTTIE: Yeah, that area. That's where -- but she was very young. When she -- my mother had a very, very hard life because her mother was paralyzed, so she had to feed and clothe my grandmother, plus she had to do all the cooking. She had two brothers that she had to do the cooking and cleaning for. SPEAKER 1: And this was in Fitchburg by that time.4 DOTTIE: This was in Fitchburg, yeah. So…. SPEAKER 1: What did her father do? DOTTIE: Her father worked at a foundry in Fitchburg [unintelligible - 00:06:35] another foundry. And he worked in the Fitchburg area. And my grandfather too. I forget where he worked, but he worked in the area. SPEAKER 1: Now, did you know them also? DOTTIE: My grandmother I didn't remember. She died when I think I was two or three years old. I mean, these are the stories that -- Alice would know my grandmother better because she was older. SPEAKER 1: Okay. And Alice…. DOTTIE: Adante, yes. SPEAKER 1: Is she a [unintelligible - 00:06:59]? I don't remember. DOTTIE: Yes. Yes. Her father and my mother were brothers and sisters, so. And we were brought up close. She has -- well, she had -- there's only three now because one passed away. She had four brothers. SPEAKER 1: Okay. DOTTIE: And her mother and my mother were very close even though they were sister-in-laws. So my mother was close with my father's sister also. SPEAKER 1: So your mother had to take care of her mother? What happened when she got married? DOTTIE: Her father lived with us. My grandfather lived with us until I think I was seven or eight years old. I remember him just a little. Then my mother's brother, the other brother, went away and came home with this cousin of theirs, and he lived with us until he passed away. And he was only a cousin, and my mother would get -- 'cause men, you know, have as they get older they get a little sloppier and stuff. So my father would [unintelligible - 00:08:04] a relative. SPEAKER 1: So was that kind of expected back then…? DOTTIE: Yes. Just take care of your mother and father. They lived, like I said, they lived with us. My father, really -- today most men I don't think put up 5 with it. But my mother took care of her parents and her cousin. I mean, they never lived alone as a couple. SPEAKER 1: Ever lived alone? DOTTIE: Nope. Because when they got married she had my grandmother, and then she had my grandfather, and then we got Renaldo, which was her cousin. Excuse me. And then the kids came along. SPEAKER 1: Now, when grandparents live with their daughter or a son, what happens when…? DOTTIE: Well, see I wasn't too young to have known that, but as far as I know it's because of the way my father was. I'm sure he made the decision. When I was -- my grandfather was a very quiet man, my mother's father, so I don't know about the mother, because like I said, I was only two or three when she died, and I don't remember her. She had arthritis; her hands were closed. But my mother said she was a strong lady as far as her personality, because she would stick a broom in her hand, you know, this way, and make sure her bed was made to her satisfaction. And my mother cooked like better than most chefs. SPEAKER 1: Your mother did? DOTTIE: Not even having recipes and stuff, and she would just -- unbelievable. My friends would say, we're going to take you to a restaurant that you're not going to complain about. And I'd say, well, okay. But even today, to this day I go out and I still complain about where we've been and what we've -- you know, the food is not -- like I said, my mother was such a good cook. SPEAKER 1: Give me some examples of what she would cook. DOTTIE: Anything. I mean, we never had -- I mean, I'd come home and her dining room buffet would be covered with all kinds of pastries. I'd go, "Ma, we having company?" And she says, "No, I felt like baking," and she baked, but every night we had some form of pasta, because my father liked a little dish of pasta, or it would be soup or a little dish of spaghetti. But he always had to have his meat and vegetables and salads. We always had a balanced meal, and we didn't even know it because, we'd have the pasta 6 first, and then we'd have meat, and vegetables and we'd have salad last. And we'd have dessert. And that was -- I mean, that's how we ate. I mean, when the holidays came around, I mean, we had a little more, but every -- they would say, do you eat like that all the time? And we'd say, what do you mean? We just took that for granted because that's how my mother cooked. My father didn't like leftovers. So if he had a meeting or something, she would call my friends and say come for supper, and we're having leftovers, and my girlfriend's husband says, Fiona's leftovers are better than most restaurants' first course. So they came. I mean, she'd switch around, right. She'd call Tommy and [unintelligible - 00:11:39] and say come for supper, and my father didn't like beef stew or stuff like that. So if he was going to be away or a meeting or going to go to a convention or something, we would have that when my father wasn't around. So she would do things that. I mean, she pleased my father -- my father came first. If my father -- we would have the store closed at 6:00 so we would have dinner at 6:30. So my father got stuck with a customer, we would not eat until my father came home. So it was -- we had sat down to have dinner every night together. And when I started working at the store and then my father would say, he'd start talking about business and then I'd start clearing the table and my mother would say, "Well, I'm not done." I'd say, "Well, I am," because she would, you know, I would say, "Dad, you know what? You're a great father, but a boss, you leave a lot to be desired." SPEAKER 1: And how did he…? DOTTIE: He laughed. But he was an ace. Oh, you're lucky [unintelligible - 00:12:47]. "What are you, crazy? I can't take a day off." The day off I get is the day I have. I can't take just the day off and tell him I'm going shopping. What are you, crazy? Well, play sick. I live at home. How can I play sick? SPEAKER 1: But you stayed? 7 DOTTIE: Yeah. Stayed there until I got married. So I mean, you do what you do because -- we had a girl working for us, and she would be black and blue because my father would go -- he would start, you know, you didn't do this right, you didn't do that right, and I'd be pitching it because I didn't want to answer him. And so she'd go, "He's your father." I'd go, but he's wrong. I'd be, "Josie, if he's told you this was black and it was white and you would say, 'Yes, Bill, you're right.'" I'd go, "Josie, that's not right." And she'd say, "But he's your father and he's your boss. You've got to say yes," and I'd go, I can't do this. SPEAKER 1: But evidently he liked having you around. DOTTIE: God, yes, because we argued, but we still, you know, he would say, "Well, my daughter will -- she'll pick out the colors for you, and she'll do, you know, whatever," but he was tough. But I loved him dearly. I mean, he was, you know -- my first husband I separated from and I started to date Teddy, and I wasn't really -- your father that you're dating again. You know, I'm in my 30s now, I mean, I'm still -- but you know what they got you over here. SPEAKER 1: [Unintelligible - 00:14:35]? DOTTIE: Yep. So I go and I tell -- I said, "Dad, I'm dating," and he says, "Yes, I know." I mean, who told you? He says nobody. He says your whole personality changed. SPEAKER 1: And he waited for you to say. DOTTIE: Yes. But I, you know, if you think they don't. You think they don't know you but they do. LINSAY: Now, did you move back in with your parents when you got separated? DOTTIE: Yes, I did. But I got separated and I went back home, and then we got together again and we went back to an apartment, and then the second time I just stayed in the apartment. SPEAKER 1: What did your parents think of your getting separated? DOTTIE: Well, they were glad because they didn't really like him. Teddy, they adored. Teddy they adored, because he was wonderful to my parents. He 8 was absolutely -- if he did nothing else for me he was just wonderful to my parents. To me, it was important. I mean, he -- my father called him and said I have to go here. He'd go, "Okay, Bill. When?" and I'll pick you up and whatever. He would do that. And my mother by then was in a nursing home. Before that, he just loved her. So he, you know, would take her out to dinner, and she just loved that, because my father was always busy with other things, and so we'd take her. And she just, you know, she just thought Teddy was -- she'd say, I want to go somewhere that we don't bump into someone he knows, because he was that type of person. If he didn't know someone when we walked into the place, he knew them when we left. That's sure. I actually believe, and the reason it's felt that way is because when -- I think they had a French priest that baptized my mother, and he couldn't -- that was how he felt it. So that's how -- the only other person that has that name is a cousin. SPEAKER 1: And was she named after her? DOTTIE: I think maybe she -- her real name is Virginia. In fact when people refer to her as Virginia… but you knew her as, you know, we always called her [Bunah]. SPEAKER 1: But her first name is Virginia? JENNIEFER: Yes. SPEAKER 1: Okay. DOTTIE: And she was -- her father died before she was born, which was my mother's brother. My mother had two brothers, and the two brothers had large families. Alice comes from -- which there was five and the other was eight. And this last one that was born was the Balderelli, but she never met her father because he died before she was born. The mother was pregnant for him when he died. That's a large family. And my mother's nieces and nephews were all close. They would all stop by and see her -- not every day, but three of the girls were -- I mean, they would come at least once a week to see her. SPEAKER 1: Now, what made them so close?9 DOTTIE: My mother -- one of my mother's niece was getting married and the father didn't approve, so my mother and father did the wedding for them. And for one reason or another, she was -- but even the guys would -- one of the guys worked for my father, and we'd just -- I don't know, I just can't explain it. And my father's family too, we were close, too. I never had any brothers, and my two cousins on my father's side are the brothers that I never had. During the holidays, my father's -- not so much the Balderellis because they were such a large family and they, you know, they but on the holidays, my father's brother and sister, we would always get together on Christmas Eve, and then it got to be too much for my mother, and then one of my cousins took over on Christmas Eve over at his house. And then as we got older, everybody, you know, got their own family. So we started to go to my sister's home. SPEAKER 1: Now, did your mother work? DOTTIE: She worked at the store. UNKNOWN: She also worked at home. DOTTIE: My father never had her on the payroll until later, until the doctor says, you know what, she works as hard as anybody, in fact, when the help saw my mother come, they'd go, oh, my God. She would work as hard as anybody. She cleaned the store. She decorated the store. She did the windows until later on. I mean, she worked as hard, so when she became -- when it came time for her to collect Social Security, they came and interviewed me. I and her. So this little twirp, I said, would you fire your mother? He's such a -- he's so -- he didn't even ask for help if she came into work. I mean, we weren't lying. She worked there as hard as anybody else. SPEAKER 1: But there wasn't any record? DOTTIE: There wasn't any record until later on when he put on her the payroll, but it wasn't really a record type thing. So they said, well, she never -- I says, well she worked harder here than most of us did. SPEAKER 1: So you mentioned the doctor? 10 DOTTIE: Dr. Silva was a close friend of my father's, and he said you should have her on the books because she's there as much as anybody. And so my father said, yeah, you're right. So he put her on his, you know, in [unintelligible - 00:20:43]. SPEAKER 1: So how did you mother feel about that? Was that kind of liberating, or…? DOTTIE: No. She didn't care one way or another. I mean, my father paid for everything. You know, we would just, you know, he would -- my mother'd go uptown and she'd, you know, the [unintelligible - 00:20:58] charges all over. And so she says your father is gonna complain. I says, "Ma, if you spend $5 or $500, he's going to complain. So spend the $500. He's going to complain one way or another." I says, "Ma, he's been saying that since you've been married he's going to shut your account. Did he ever do it? No, he's not going to do it." SPEAKER 1: Before we turn the recorder on, you had mentioned that you're half Italian, half Sicilian. DOTTIE: Yes. SPEAKER 1: So tell me about that. DOTTIE: I mean, I never thought about it. I just said, if anybody asked me what I was, I would say I'm Italian. And so I still say I'm Italian. But people who live in Sicily and other -- see, they figure that's the boot part and we're close to Africa. It was just a big joke. And it still is. But I feel that I'm Italian, and in my heart I know I am. So I say I'm half [Mathogen] and half Sicilian, which I am. And I'm proud of my heritage. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. So if you could think of what attributes are given to the Sicilians? DOTTIE: I don't know. I just think that what I could -- the only thing I could see is because my mother is such a good cook, and that's one thing, and my father was forceful in his -- and that's how I perceive to be a Sicilian. They're kind of, you know, forceful. And the [Mathies] are on the quiet side because my uncles were quiet. Well, I don't remember the one that 11 died early, but my other uncle was just this solemn man and just a sweetheart. I mean, just [unintelligible - 00:22:44]. SPEAKER 1: Was there any good-natured jesting done? DOTTIE: Yes. SPEAKER 1: You know, about being Sicilian in the house. DOTTIE: Oh yes. Oh god, between my Uncle Jeff, you're lucky that my sister married you and you're Sicilian, you're up close to Africa. I mean, just jokingly, you know. But when my uncle was [unintelligible - 00:23:06] took sick, he and my father went on a trip for almost two months. They toured the United States, and my father would say, "Oh my god, if you stopped in this restaurant and your uncle looked at it, he'd say we're not eating here." He said, he'd be starving but if he didn't like the looks of it, he said we'd have to drive another 50 miles. SPEAKER 1: So food was very important? DOTTIE: Yes. SPEAKER 1: To the family? DOTTIE: Yes. My uncle married a French woman, and she cooked as good as my mother. Alice's mother is French. And she was as good a cook as my mother. SPEAKER 1: Tell me about the preparation of the food and the table, you get the impression all of that is very important, the presentation. DOTTIE: Yeah. When I tell you it's -- another thing my mother had a knack to do, if my father came home with five extra people for dinner and didn't call my mother, there was still enough food to serve these people. If he phoned after a meeting with people, my mother would put out a spread, and I'd look at sisters and say, where did she get that? She just had a knack of, you know, putting things together and making it look beautiful. In fact, my husband did all the cooking and I set the table so it looked pretty. SPEAKER 1: But did your mother also set the table each day too? DOTTIE: Well, I guess, us kids did that. But it was -- when we all sat down to dinner together, both sisters got married early so there was -- if I was 12 working she'd say, okay, and I was living in my own apartment, she says, "Well, come for supper before you go home," and I'd say, yeah okay. My sisters say, "Oh, you're lazy. You don't want to cook." I'd go, yep, you're right. So she would make sure that we stopped at least two or three nights, and most of the time if it was someone's birthday, she would have us all for dinner and cook our special, whatever we liked. And it was obvious whoever's birthday it was, and most of the time it was one of the other sisters that was there. So one night we're all there and my father says, whose birthday is it because nobody assisted, and we called everybody. But most of the time, I mean, she'd -- I mean, she could have 10 people at dinner and think nothing of it. SPEAKER 1: So there was always enough to eat? DOTTIE: Oh. If you asked my mother if you wanted her to go shopping at [Filene's] or go to a gourmet grocery store, she'd say I want to go to the gourmet grocery store. I mean, she -- I'm going into Boston in the north end and like to try different -- she says, "Okay, I got to go to the grocery store before you take me home." I said I just got to go in for a loaf of bread and she'd be in there an hour. I'd say, "Ma, Ma, you said a loaf of bread." "Well, I decided I need to get this, this, and this." Mm-hmm. Things that people consider gourmet now. We had polentas growing up. We had risotto growing up. We had baked Alaska pie growing up. I mean, we had lobster [nugood]. We had baked stuffed lobster. We had razor clams. Some people don't even know what razor clams are today. SPEAKER 1: Tell me, how would she make those? I'm familiar with them. DOTTIE: Razor clams. She would just -- what she would do is steam them first, take the, you know, the clams out and then chop them up and make stuffing with it, and then put them back in the shell and put a little bread crumbs and bake them in the oven. I think they were absolutely delicious. I'm telling my husband about razor clams, he says, "I've never hear of razor clams." We're at the [unintelligible - 00:27:18] walk in the beach 13 and I said see, see that, see that clam? That's a razor clam. Of course, I think you had to -- I hadn't seen them in years. SPEAKER 1: I never see them in the stores. I've seen them at the beach. DOTTIE: Yeah. I've never, ever seen them -- I haven't seen them in the stores for years. And another thing is that -- well, she didn't do this because there were certain things that she didn't make. Uncle did. SPEAKER 1: French uncle? DOTTIE: No, my Italian uncle on my father's sister's husband. I think he was from Poland. My middle sister was the finicky eater. I mean, my father would say, "Barbara, have a little wine." "But daddy, I don't like it." "Honey, just try the wine, it'd do you good." So, but my sister and I would, you know, we always had the wine and the champagne. We've had the, you know, he always made sure we had a little just so that when we were older that we were accustomed to drinking and we didn't go out, and you know, and the cabinets would be -- whatever was in the house would be open to all of us. All of us. So now my sister gets married and she lives upstairs from my aunt and uncle, and she called and said, "Oh, Uncle Charlie made me --" we called them "babaluccis" in Italian, and I said, oh yeah. My sister says, "That's nice, thank you. Bye," and hung up. I called and I said, "Uncle Charlie, you like Barbara better than me." He says, no honey—because he had an accent—I like you both the same. I said nope. Oh no, he says, I like you both. I said, well, you make Barbara babaluccis and I didn't get any. The next day I had a pair. SPEAKER 1: What are babaluccis. DOTTIE: They're the snails. They're little snails -- he used to do them in a sauce that was absolutely delicious. And another thing my mother never made was tripe. And I never had it because I didn't like the smell. My grandmother would cook it and it was ugh. It was bad. They bought it and they had to clean it, and it was terrible. So now I used to have to go with Teddy, and we'd go out and they have tripe. I got ugh. So he goes, try it. So I say okay. I tried it. Delicious. Now, my aunt's sister-in-law 14 comes from New Jersey, and she makes a whole batch for my husband, but my mother still never cooked that. That was one thing she never cooked, and baccala. But 99 percent of everything else, she did, so. My favorite was that she used to do this roast pork with the center cut that she used to have, then we cut the bone so that we could have the bone. We would fight for the pork, so she'd make sure that we'd all get a piece of it. But that was my favorite, favorite dish that she did. SPEAKER 1: Now, I know that everyone would sit at the table. Was your father given priority, first serving? DOTTIE: He was given the first serving, but we all had -- the only thing that we didn't have that he had because we didn't like it was liver, because he liked liver occasionally. But he was served first. But whatever he had, we had. And the other thing, I don't think as kids, we didn't like lamb chops, so my mother would make something else for us. But now lamb is my favorite meal now. But you know, like I said whatever my father had, we had. Nothing was taken from us. I mean, he would serve for us. But if he had steak, we had steak. I mean, we'd choose not to have it. That was because didn't want it. But I have a friend that came from a family of nine, and father would have butter and the kids would have margarine, and so we said that if he could have steak and the kids would have something else, and so we had a brother, so this brother says, "When am I going to have this steak and butter?" He says when you start to work, and you know, contribute. They came home and he says, well, here's my money I want steak and butter or whatever, and the father says, oh no, some of it's for your room, some of it's for the clothes, and some of it's for this. You still don't have enough money for steak. SPEAKER 1: Now, who served the food at the table? DOTTIE: My mother never sat down. She did. I should say she was always on the edge. My father -- we always ate in the dining room in Leominster because we'd -- I'd say 90 percent of the time -- we had a large kitchen but my father felt claustrophobic, so 90 percent of the time we ate in the 15 dining room because it was it the stove and this thing was here and the dining room was here. So it was actually closer to the dining room than it was to go across the kitchen to the other part. But my mother served. SPEAKER 1: Now, would your father…? DOTTIE: It didn't matter. No. It didn't matter. SPEAKER 1: You know what I want to do? It's because just that you're… DOTTIE: Sure. I'm sorry. SPEAKER 1: No, right here, because you're… DOTTIE: Oh, I'm sorry. SPEAKER 1: No. It's all right. I'm just afraid it will [unintelligible - 00:33:02]. Okay. Back to your father. Do you have any idea why his parents chose Fitchburg? DOTTIE: They must have had friends here. Not really. No. I don't know why they really, no, I don't -- no, I don't. No, I don't remember hearing why they choose here. SPEAKER 1: And also, but I think the recorder wasn't on; you were talking about an experience… DOTTIE: They just said that it was tough growing up because they originally -- they lived in the patch, which is considered Italian when they were growing up. First it was Irish, and then they moved out and then the Italians moved in, and they moved out. Now I think it's the Puerto Ricans that live mostly in that area. I don't think there's anybody left even down, you know, beyond it, because this is Water Street, and down this way almost every house was Italian. SPEAKER 1: Well, there's Doris… DOTTIE: Oh yeah, she's still there. Yeah, she's still there. I forgot. Yes, she is. She lives down Railroad Street. Yes. Lovely lady. I mean, you see her, she makes you feel she's so happy to see you. She comes and gives you -- so good to see you. SPEAKER 1: She's special. DOTTIE: Yes, she really is. 16 SPEAKER 1: So do you remember any…? DOTTIE: All I can remember is that, you know, I grew up there. I worked there, and so I was, you know, eight years ago. So I was there, you know, all my life, and you see the changes as, you know, you grow up but… SPEAKER 1: So tell me about the changes. DOTTIE: Well, you could walk down the street, and you know, you knew everybody, and it was amazing how many [unintelligible - 00:34:57] that was on that street growing up, and each one of them -- I don't know how they survived, because each one of them had a large family, and there must have been a dozen stores from 5th Street to 1st Street. And they had -- there was [colors] and there was the [Cabones], there was [Ilinestis]. There was another two Cabones. There was a [Casthetes]. There was a Gloria chain, which is -- I still, I don't know if they should have one in Leominster too, but part of the Gloria chain was in where our store is now. It was -- my father's furniture store originally was built as the garage where they would park cars. And when we were across the street, he bought this building, and he converted it into a furniture store. And one time, Coca-Cola had rented the warehouse, and they had 12 trucks on the roof of this building. The building is still standing very, very strong. Some of the parts of the building are fallout shelters. That's how -- 'cause it was built so well. And it is -- it [unintelligible - 00:36:37] Water Street up to Spruce Street up to Hale Street, 'cause when you look at the building in the front, it doesn't appear to be latched. It goes all the way up to Spruce Street and Hale. Spuce Street is the street just before the store. Okay. And Hale Street is the street that runs parallel with Water Street. So that building goes all the way up to Hale Street. SPEAKER 1: And you mentioned that it was a fall out? DOTTIE: Part of it is. SPEAKER 1: Wow. Yeah. And when did that come about? DOTTIE: Well, I think World War II. They came in and they, you know, they check out the buildings and stuff and put up these things. 1953, that's when he 17 converted the garage into the store because, well, right now, if you were to go in there the ceilings don't appear high, but there is six more feet. They dropped the ceiling. Or they dropped it to a, you know, a fall ceiling. But beyond that there's six more feet. SPEAKER 1: I thought you just mentioned -- were those grocery stores? DOTTIE: Yes, they were little groceries, and… SPEAKER 1: Your mother must have been in heaven. DOTTIE: She did -- she [unintelligible - 00:37:49] I said no. I'm going to a different store. Well, this one has this one in her [unintelligible - 00:37:53], and as they stopped, you know, maybe they'll pass away or whatever, they, you know, they spaced up, because there's nothing on there now. There's not a grocery store on Water Street now. Maybe there is, but up for a -- but after they stopped existing -- she bought very, very little meat from the supermarkets. She bought it from Sal's Grocery Store up in -- they would deliver to -- 'cause I've been everywhere in Leominster. They would deliver to the store, then we'd take it. I would say, "I want a pound of this, I want a pound of that. I want two pounds," whatever she wants, she'd give them an order and he'd deliver it. SPEAKER 1: So they still have these grocery stores, they weren't run by the -- they were run from daughters? DOTTIE: Maybe, not really, no. I can just remember just one. It was -- he adopted, but it was not even a son. It was someone that worked for him, but he ran it for a while. And it's actually a parking lot now of this [unintelligible - 00:39:04]. There was a grocery store there in the building up above it. I mean, they had like tenement houses that we needed parking lots, so then my father bought that building and tore it down. SPEAKER 1: Know everyone who lived in the patch more or less. DOTTIE: More or less. In fact, it was about -- I wanna say 12 years ago, they had a patch reunion, and it was wonderful. They had, you know, it was some people you hadn't see in years and wonderful. We should do it again, of 18 course. It's a lot of work, but no one has, you know, taken any initiative and done it again. SPEAKER 1: Did anyone take pictures? DOTTIE: But I do remember, I had this lady, this Mrs. [Impressor], was just a sweetheart of a lady and sometimes she would just come in the store just to fill her -- she was turning 100, and [unintelligible - 00:40:01] called me. She says, "Dottie, how come you haven't sent in your return?" I says, I was hurt, because one of my girlfriends got invited, and I says, I wonder why [unintelligible - 00:40:11] sisters, Dottie? How come you didn't send in the return?" I says, 'cause I didn't get -- that was when, again all Italians were there, so it was, I went to a wedding and hadn't seen people in a lot of years. SPEAKER 1: So do you remember who the organizers were of the class reunion? I may like to talk to them. DOTTIE: I'm going to say Marie Cabone had something to do with it, but that's not her married name, her married name is… SPEAKER 1: We can get it later. DOTTIE: Okay. She may have had something to do with it. I'm not sure. SPEAKER 1: So tell me about the changes in the patch. So when did… DOTTIE: Interesting. You know what? You go to work every day you're going to see some things -- I want to say it started to change -- my aunt was walking down in front of the store, someone knocked her down and stole her bag. I says, I don't this believe this happening. First of all, it's my aunt, and second of all, in front of our store, so that was heartbreaking. SPEAKER 1: When was that about? DOTTIE: I want to say maybe 30 years ago. SPEAKER 1: Wow. DOTTIE: Time goes by so fast, because my aunt's been dead since I want to say '80. Time goes by so fast, maybe it was 25 years ago. At that time they'd leave the doors open, and you know, you never locked your doors or anything. You never thought about it, never thought about having an alarm system.19 SPEAKER 1: Did you ever [unintelligible - 00:41:57]? DOTTIE: No. First of all to let the store, anything [unintelligible - 00:42:04] built a store for furniture must be, and we had it, so we just -- fortunately we had a good clientele, and things were, you know, we were all right as far as, you know, our customers would come in and we'd advertise, so it was fine up until [unintelligible - 00:42:27] and then it just wasn't fun anymore. SPEAKER 1: Did your parents continue living about? DOTTIE: No, no, we moved to Leominster when I was… and we moved to… SPEAKER 1: Why was that done? DOTTIE: Why was that done? Well, my father and mother needed -- they bought the land on I'd say Ellis Street, and at that time my uncle, who was a plasterer and bricklayer, came and said to my father and mother there's a beautiful house in Leominster that's for sale. It's only six months old, and my father and mother went to look at it, and they fell in love with it because it was -- it is a brick Tudor, I want to say an English Tudor. And it was at that time one of the nicest houses in Leominster. So they got it for a good deal so they bought it. SPEAKER 1: Did life change after moving from [unintelligible - 00:43:32] Street? DOTTIE: No, because we still went to church in Fitchburg, I still worked, all my friends were in Fitchburg, I went to school in Fitchburg. In fact, someone said to me later on in life Dottie, how do you like living in Leominster, I said I've lived here most of my life, they said you wouldn't think so. In fact, up until a few years ago, people would ask me where I was from and I would say Fitchburg, and I'd say -- now I'd tell them I'm from Leominster because things have changed you know, it's a different… it's changed immensely. It's not the small community that it was. In fact, up until I worked, because I had property in Fitchburg I voted in Fitchburg up until ten years ago. SPEAKER 1: Ten years ago.20 DOTTIE: I would say. Of course I wasn't active like I was when I was working. I belonged to the Chamber of Commerce; I belonged to the government stations. And when you retire, you get away from that, and it isn't as… see, my father was active in everything, he was active in politics, he was active in the community, he was active in the church, he was active in the Sons of Italy, he was active in politics, so he was very active in the community. In fact he and a couple of his friends were instrumental in him getting elected mayor. SPEAKER 1: So he was instrumental with that. DOTTIE: They were very good friends, yep. In fact he was instrumental in John Volpe becoming governor. SPEAKER 1: Really? Tell me about that. DOTTIE: He and John Volpe became friendly when they belonged to the Sons of Italy on a state level. So John Volpe called my father and said to him, "I am running for governor," and "Can you help?" My father said sure. So he called one of his, campaign manager called my father and he says, "We're coming into Fitchburg on Monday, can you introduce him to -- or can I introduce him to a lot of people in a short period of time?" So he actually closed the store down and had every one of us call our friends, customers that we thought would come, and he had open house at his house. And at that time, well he still, he belonged to the Rotary and he belonged to… I don't know if he belonged to [unintelligible - 00:46:19] we got the book and we just called people up and said… I'm not Republican, they said we don't care, just come, we want faces, a lot of people. So we booked. It was the early part of June so he says we'll have it outside, and at that time there was too many people and it wasn't enough time, so we had to have it catered. 21 So I called the caterer, he had all the summer furniture in the store delivered to the house and was going to have it outside. Well, it poured like you can't believe. We had tons and tons of people still and he called my father a few days later and he says Bill, if I have six friends like you throughout the state I'll be elected, and he was elected. SPEAKER 1: [Unintelligible - 00:47:07]. DOTTIE: No, the only job my father ever got for that was -- and because Joe Adante asked him to take it was to be on the Board of [unintelligible - 00:47:18] and so he took that. The only thing he go from helping so much was people would come in and say can you get me a low number plate, and he would buy the letter, and I got a low number plate. In fact because sometimes you don't think, I got my number plate is 99G, so I got that. But the woman that did it had to do some research because it was the ninth month, the ninth day in [unintelligible - 00:47:54]. And my father had -- in fact my brother-in-law still had, it's 52W, he was 52 years old [unintelligible - 00:48:03] the first time. He had 52W. So now he's running again, and Joe Ward is running against him, and he's from Fitchburg. My father, I says, "Are you crazy? You can't go out and campaign for him," I said, "It's suicide." I said, "You have a business." He said, "I also have the right to choose who I want to vote for." So he called up Joe Ward and he says to him, "Joe, I've known you for a good many years, but you know my affiliation with John. We've been friends for years. I would say that if John wasn't running I would help you campaign." He says, "I can't thank you enough for calling, and I still think you're gentleman." He also was Republican chairman in Fitchburg and Leominster area for a long time. SPEAKER 1: Who was? DOTTIE: My father. SPEAKER 1: Your father? DOTTIE: Yeah.22 SPEAKER 1: How did he get involved in politics? DOTTIE: Well, because [unintelligible - 00:49:15] like Pete Levante was running for mayor. That way, he was active with -- he'd gotten involved with John Volpe, and then he just was campaigning, he was Republican chairman for a long time in Fitchburg and Leominster area. That's how he got involved in it. And he would always take people home to the house and we got involved in it. This is changing the subject because he would say yes to you, if someone asked him something and he couldn't do, well he could do it, but to take someone somewhere he'd say yes that's fine, we'll do it. He'd say, "Dorothy, do this," and I'd get angry and I'd say I can't make a decision on my own, but I always had a -- especially with the nuns, when I was young they didn't drive, they didn't have their own car. So if they had to go somewhere, they would rely on the community of, you know, our parish to take them somewhere. Because we always had two cars, they would call my father and say I have to go such and such a place. "No problem. Dorothy, take them." I'd say, "Why do you do that?" He says, "What do you mean why do I do what?" Make decisions for me. He says "I don't make decisions, you do." But it was fun. One time he called me from Florida and said you have to be in so-and-so's wedding. I says dad, I don't know them. He said that's all right. I knew the family but I didn't really know, you know I didn't know the bride at all. He said that's all right, I do. I said but dad, I'm already in five weddings, I can't afford it. He said that's all right, I'll pay for it. So I'm in this wedding, didn't really -- well, I knew the guy that was with me because it was, you know, I knew the family, but the bride and groom. Marty's father, you know Pete Levante, was because most of them were Italian, he was invited to all of the weddings, but he says Dorothy, I says what, he says, you're doing this for a living. My sisters were quiet and 23 they never worked at the store. I should say my middle sister's quiet, my other sister, we call her Mouth because she has to have last lip Susie, she has to have the last word. SPEAKER 1: And from the church, your father was involved with the church also? DOTTIE: He was, you know he'd collect on Sundays, and also if they needed money they'd come and he'd help collect. When I was young they used to have these carnivals or you know when they have people at merry go rounds with stuff. SPEAKER 1: Like an amusement… DOTTIE: Thank you, yes. And they would run those in summer months, and he became very friendly with the pastor. In fact they would go away for a few -- you know, like to go to Florida. My mother wouldn't go because she had us kids, and so my father would go with the priest. SPEAKER 1: And what was his name? DOTTIE: Father [Campanelli]. He ended up being in Worcester, he was Monsignor Campanelli. And we had Father John Capolano who was at our parish for a long time. So one time I said can I have a new dress, not this week, "Well if Father John came and asked you for money you'd give it to him." He'd say, "Listen here, young lady, anything I gave to the church I always got back tenfold." So he was, you know [unintelligible - 00:53:00] he was involved with that. But I was baptized, communion, confirmation, got married out of there, probably die and be buried out of there. So definitely, definitely. SPEAKER 1: Do you think… DOTTIE: That generation, the men were superior. I have two cousins that my father treated, I mean he was wonderful to us, but he treated these guys like they were his sons. And he was just good to them. In fact one of them worked for him for quite awhile, and he's a multimillionaire now in Leominster. SPEAKER 1: Who's that?24 DOTTIE: Charles Tito. But he started with my father, and his brother worked for -- no, Sam never worked for us, maybe on the summer or something. I was close with them, just thought these guys were the best. SPEAKER 1: Was education? DOTTIE: Yes, but he never had it. But he thought it should be, you know, you should have -- in fact I could have gone longer but I chose not to. Then after, two or three years later I decided, I said I think I want to -- he said well if you want to go back you've got to pay. I said well if the [unintelligible - 00:54:39]. SPEAKER 1: Was it an option for you to work at the store or was it just assumed? DOTTIE: Assumed. Because first of all if I had left, when I left [Deed], I should have gone to work out of town for a few years just to get an idea of how things are run differently. But it was assumed that I would come to the store and stay there. Everything. I said it's a good thing I wasn't a boy because… no, good thing I never learned how to drive the truck, because if I did he would have sent me out on the truck too, because I did everything there. I mean, you didn't say, you know, when you go to a store today they go that's not my department or that's not my job. Those words did not exist with my father. I'll never forget one time he says to me call this person up, they owe us money. I says, okay, "Hello, Mrs. Jones or Mr. [unintelligible - 00:55:49]?" And he says, "You haven't been in for a while," and he hung up. So I said he hung up on me, I mean no one ever did that to me. So he said call him back. He says, "If you don't stop calling me back, I'm going to come down and hit you with a baseball bat." Well, I mean I started to cry. My father said, "Give me that phone." But then after a while you learn how… I mean, if he did that to me now I'd say go ahead, come, I'll have one too. 25 But as a kid, I mean first of all you wouldn't talk to anybody that way, we weren't brought up -- I mean, even to this day you know how you see policemen you get nervous, you were always brought up to respect your elders and authority. But today, you know, even like if you said the teacher said this, you never went home and said the teacher said this because they'd say whatever you did you deserved it. But today… I have a friend that's a teacher. He came in the store and his hands were all scratched. I says, "What happened to you." He says, "I was taking a second grader to the principal and he was scratching me." SPEAKER 1: That would have been unheard of? DOTTIE: You would never, ever. I mean, if the teacher said whatever, you never went home and said the teacher said or did whatever, because they were always right no matter what. SPEAKER 1: Did you ever feel that you were treated differently? DOTTIE: I'll tell you what, because all my friends were Italian. In fact, I told this to Alice just recently. I says I was blessed because there's a big difference between my sister and I, there's like almost eight years difference. I was the first girl born in the family, I was the first child born in my mother and father's close friends. So I was [unintelligible - 00:57:55]. I had grandparents that weren't my grandparents that, you know, my mother and father's friend's parents, I mean they couldn't treat me any better if I was their grandchildren. Back then grandchildren missed out because they passed away before, you know, they had kids. So I had -- everybody was my, you know, I was loved a lot, my uncles, my father's friends, my aunt. Like I said I was the first girl in the family. My aunt had two boys, but I was the only girl. And the others didn't have children until later on, so I came along and my sisters came later. And my father wasn't as busy when I was born. And as my sisters came along, he became more and more active in the community. In fact he was even 26 president -- not president, he was treasurer of the Boy Scouts in Nashoba Valley, and he never had any boys. SPEAKER 1: So it seems as though he… DOTTIE: That's right, he was always, he was president of the Chamber of Commerce a couple of times, he was involved with Rotary. SPEAKER 1: What was that about him? DOTTIE: He liked people. He liked to be active. He liked to be busy. See, that was his hobby more or less because he didn't golf, he didn't do any of those things. So he kept busy and active in politics and whatnot. SPEAKER 1: Did he ever have a talk with you as far as being [unintelligible - 00:59:42]? DOTTIE: Maybe we just kind of -- no, I don't think so. I think he just took it for granted that, you know, it was amazing how far he came, he had a lot of foresight because he took chances where, you know, it was unheard of. Like he bought this building that was like a shell, and he -- the man that built was… bought it to… he built it to park cars and it… and my father turned around and he said, "Well we could put a store there, right?" and he did. SPEAKER 1: Well, how did he get involved in the furniture business? DOTTIE: He started with the oil business, then from the oil business he started -- he went to school to learn how to install burners, you know oil burners, 'cause he was selling the oil then he needed the burners. Then from that there he started to sell appliances, and from appliances he started to -- you know, furniture, you know, little by little, and then he would go to the furniture shows and started the [unintelligible - 01:00:55]. SPEAKER 1: Did he have [unintelligible - 01:00:58]. DOTTIE: No. SPEAKER 1: No. DOTTIE: People would say, "Oh yeah, he had [unintelligible - 01:01:02]." No. One time he went to the bank to borrow money because he didn't have -- he wanted to buy I think a car load of, I don't know, refrigerators or 27 something, and he went to borrow I want to say a thousand dollars. I don't remember the exact amount. And because he was not really established, they said no. And he -- the doctor that was friendly with us, he loaned him the money. SPEAKER 1: What was his name again? DOTTIE: The house. But she was -- I said why don't you use this. Oh I can do it quicker. SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I think sometimes, you know, by the time you rent [unintelligible - 01:01:46] you know. Anyway, we just had to replace the batteries, and now we're back in business. So you said -- you were talking about your father and the furniture business, how the doctor helped him, loaned him money. DOTTIE: Yes, and he paid him back, and then they remained… he was like a brother… they were the closest thing to a brother. I mean, he was Jewish, and -- but they really remained friends until they both passed away. SPEAKER 1: Really? DOTTIE: Yes. He was -- in fact, on Christmas day my father and I would… we would go to visit them, bring a gift to both of them, he and his wife, and we would have coffee or whatever on Christmas. We would do that Christmas morning, or was it before? I can't remember if it was Christmas morning or just before Christmas, because -- I mean, they just were you know… he never ever did, never! He had, you know, basically the same friends that he had all his life. [Unintelligible - 01:03:01] too. Where I have, you know, the same friends as we had since I was a kid, I don't -- you know, you acquire a few on the way, but basically the same people I've been involved with most of my life. Well, of course I never… I never moved out of the area, so… My sister one time said that if I was on welfare, I would still be a millionaire because of my friends. Yes, yes. So like I said feel I've been blessed in 28 that respect. Priest last night says how would I want to be remembered? I want to be remembered that I loved and I was loved. SPEAKER 1: Yes, that's… DOTTIE: Well, if you really want to make money you can make money. But I think friendship is more important than anything, because you can't buy that. 'Cause once the money is gone, the people that you bought are gone. You have money going up and you don't coming down and you have true friends; your friends are going to be there for you. Not really, no, I think that's an individual thing. I don't know, 'cause I -- first of all I think because my mother and father always entertained, I tend to still do that. I don't do it as much because my husband was the one that did the cooking and stuff, so not a lot of, you know, people coming into dinner and… SPEAKER 1: You and me. DOTTIE: I mean we would have brunches like, we'd invite half the, you know, the complex. I mean… SPEAKER 1: Did you live in Maine or was that… DOTTIE: We just had a summer -- I mean, it was the condo that we would go in, in the winter months, but not like going in the summer. We would still just go on the weekends. But I would take Saturday… I'd work Saturday and leave Saturday, and then I would take Monday and Tuesday off instead of taking a -- sometimes I would take a couple of weeks, but towards the end we just would take longer weekends [unintelligible - 01:05:21]. So we had it up until… I sold it -- it's going to be three years. We were together about 25 years but legally married about 12, I guess. Eighty-four, but he was just a -- like I said, like the people that we went last night to the funeral, they said we were just talking about Teddy Christmas time. He was the type that -- like I said, he would holler and scream, but that would be over within two seconds. And I mean, he just 29 [unintelligible - 01:06:00] go get him, give him a cup of coffee, get him a drink, do this. I think so. I'm not so much as business-minded, but personality wise I think he had a lot of my father's traits because they all, they both like people. SPEAKER 1: [Unintelligible - 01:06:20] furniture store? DOTTIE: He was actually a leather [unintelligible - 01:06:25] he managed -- he was bartender and he managed it. It was at that -- right now it's where the weather vane is. It used to be called King's Corner, and he worked there for a good many -- but he looked after when my father passed away and I had to run the store so he would come in to help out, but not really work at it. But he helped out. SPEAKER 1: When did your father pass away? DOTTIE: 1984, the year I got married. SPEAKER 1: Oh. [Unintelligible - 01:06:54] DOTTIE: Yes, yes, yes. SPEAKER 1: What was that like? DOTTIE: That was not as enjoyable, because first of all I loved, I loved to wait on customers, and you know, sew and decorate. That was my forte. Than I had to worry about bills, I had to worry about hiring, I had to worry about firing, I had to worry, had to -- all the responsibilities that go with running a business, and it wasn't as fun. One time Teddy said I stopped doing that because it wasn't fun. I guess it comes to that point when you realize, 'cause I -- you know, sometimes it's "Oh, I hate going to work, I hate it, I hate it, I hate it." But you say that just to [unintelligible - 01:07:41]. Actually I enjoyed working with the customers, and even to this day if I'm out and they said, "Oh, I'm sorry you don't have the store anymore," or, "You know what? I still have the sofa that you sold me 20 years ago." So it's just a store, it was when it was time to close it. So I know what I 30 should have probably done, and I still have the building, which has been up for sale, really, for the last couple of years… of last year, but it's, you know, we should have done it two years ago. SPEAKER 1: So you were involved for so long in this store. How long did you work there about? DOTTIE: I got out at -- let's see I was 18, 19, 20… till I was about 58, so 20 to 58. SPEAKER 1: I imagine your customer base, did it change over time? DOTTIE: Believe it or not, if we started with the grandmother and father, then we got the daughter or the son, and then we got the son's kids, and so we're -- a lot of it was just the same generation. I mean, we got new customers; don't get me wrong. I think the biggest -- at one time we had Devon's, you know, Devon used to have soldiers, okay, so I said it was Fort Devon's. And I had a customer come in and said so and so sent me, and I says -- of course the name didn't hit a bell, and they says, "Oh yeah, they were in Germany." Excuse me? Yeah they said they knew we were coming here, and they said we'll need furniture, and they said to make sure they said you come see us. And we did we got a lot of word of mouth and had one customer that they would come in every week, and I would chat with them and they'd buy a chair or something small. I'd give them -- we always had coffee, we had coffee, so we'd offer my customers coffee. I mean, I would tell the girls or the people that were selling -- when they come in that door you treat them like they are coming into your home and bring me to them. So when a customer -- I would try to cultivate them. And so like this customer buys this enormous house, and now they need it furnished, and so now they also need draperies and… oh, my sister [unintelligible - 01:10:25] just had a flair for decorating. You are going to handle the drapes, you are going to -- we have this company that we 31 dealt with where, you know, on a small basis as far as if you came in and said I want some draperies, I said, "Okay, measure your walls and whatever," and we had a small company that we would deal with. So this was -- and when I tell you, this house, they called it the castle. I mean, it had -- it was unbelievable! Now she did all the draperies, and I sold them every room of furniture except I think they had already bought a dining room set, but everything else I did. Now, at the time -- this is over 20 years ago, thousand dollars, so that was a lot of money, but with the furniture, [unintelligible - 01:11:19] says, "Well, how are they going to pay for this?" I says, "I don't know." I just was going crazy. About two or three days later the lady walks in and she says, "Can we go somewhere?" "Yeah, we can go in my father's office," so she closed the door, and she goes boom-boom-boom, she whipped out $20,000 of cash. I almost had a heart attack. That was my biggest sale. I mean, one person. Did they have a complaint on anything? Nothing, except something I gave them -- the man says, "Oh, the top of the shelf is scratched." I said, "Oh, you didn't pay for that." Oh, okay. It was pebble stone base, and it was going to be [unintelligible - 01:12:07] going to put a statue on it. So I said well, I'm not going to charge you for this because it's got a few scratches on it. So he says everything's okay except, you know, the base of this is scratched. I said, "Well, you didn't pay for that." "Oh, okay. Thank you." SPEAKER 1: So how in the beginning of your involvement, how did customers pay? DOTTIE: How do they pay? On a weekly basis. They would come in, and they would -- I don't even know if we charged them interest. I guess then we started doing what we called a pre-payment plan, which was considered cash in 90 days, but it had to be broken into three payments. 32 And then we had the company that would buy the paper if, you know, rather than carry -- I forget the company we used. I don't know if it was… one of those companies. And then sometimes if it was a good customer that's been doing business they didn't want to go through that, then we would charge them the interest for the year, however long it took. And then we had customers that just paid weekly that came in for years and years and years. That was part of their, I mean, weekly… I had friends that would come in just to have coffee. I mean, they would have the day off, and they'd come in with their -- one friend had a grandmother that was -- she says, "Oh, let's go see Dottie. We'll have a cup of coffee." That like that Mrs. [unintelligible - 01:13:42], she's like, "Oh, let's go see Dottie. We'll have coffee with her." So I miss that part; I miss that closeness with the customers. Like I said, I treated my customers like they were my friends. Just because -- I did it mainly because it was easier to sell them, and then they kept coming back. And like I said, I enjoyed that part of it. Well, the trends went from outer out -- you know, they have the outer margin, and then it went to your country, which stayed in for until I almost closed, and then they had a lot of traditional, which was -- I remember one time a customer came in and said, "That sofa is down the street for $500 less," and I says, "I don't think… /AT/pa/mb/es

Transcript of an oral history interview with Angus Macaulay, conducted by Sarah Yahm on 5 May 2015, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. Angus Macaulay graduated from Norwich University in 1966. His interview focuses on his military service in Korea and Vietnam after graduation as well as his later career at McGraw-Hill, INC. Magazine, and Magazine Services, Inc. ; Angus Macaulay, NU 1966, Oral History Interview May 5, 2015 Interviewed by Sarah Yahm AM It happened in our division when I was there. SY Really? AM I want you to ask me about - most of the guys who went to Vietnam they were gone for a year I was gone for almost two years And I think a question you might want to - that may come up would be what I - the perception of change I felt had happened in the US when I came home SY You know I was going to ask you about that And keep in mind this is casual and so if there's something you want me to ask just tell me We'll just - and you know just be like "Something I've been thinking about." AM Now what do you do? Would you transcribe this eventually? SY I have an assistant who transcribes it. AM Don't you have software that transcribes it? SY It doesn't work because there's so much that's in context and so the software misses AM Ah! SY - that and they botch words and they don't do grammar AM Will I ever see a copy of it? SY Yeah so the way it works is that so we do this recording I get back to Norwich the backlog could be a couple of months AM Oh don't worry about it SY - because transcribing takes a long time Clark gets to work on transcribing it Then what you get in the mail is a copy of the transcript and a CD of the interview You review the transcript make sure things are accurate Did you know Bill Bonk? AM Oh yeah SY Yeah well he AM Bill's a good friend of mine. SY Bill still needs - if you talk to him tell him to send me back my transcript Anyway so you know I sent - I interviewed Bill I sent him his transcript We talked for hours; it was an amazing interview And but you know there are some things like I you know I try to figure out all the place names correctly but there are some you know Vietnam-era military acronyms that I might mess up etc. AM Oh okay don't worry no don't worry about it SY - so he goes through and but he - so then he has to read through it and he has to you know make sure everything is correct and then he sends it Or also there are some things he told me that might be classified that he might want out of the record So you have the opportunity at that point to AM No I don't think I have any (laughs) SY He had a couple of secret missions I think he'll be fine with keeping them in But he might want to go through and think about that right? So then - or for instance somebody on tape said something mean about her mother-in-law and she's going to want to cut that out when I send her her transcript back right? Because this is going to be available on the website right? So the idea is you get it you look through it you make sure that there's nothing - or I interviewed an Iranian woman who describes how she left Iran illegally She's going to need to edit that out so that when she tries to go back to Iran for a visit she's not going to have issues leaving. AM Now how many people from our era have you interviewed? SY Let's see I have a bunch on the list to interview (repeats herself louder) I have a bunch on the list to interview AM From class of '66? SY Yeah there's - there - because of that recent Vietnam issue that came out of the Norwich Record? AM Right. SY A couple of people came out of the woodwork. AM Right. SY But I think Bill Bonk might be one of the - yeah and other people who were in Vietnam AM Bill was in my class Bill's a pretty good friend of mine yeah. SY He's great He's great A great storyteller. AM Yeah. SY So then I have a bunch of other people who've been in Vietnam but were either behind you or ahead of you right by a couple of years So yeah So that's the way it works AM Okay SY - is we have a conversation you get it back you get to look at it and then you sign off on it And then you know eventually they'll be a searchable archive So the idea is that if a student is interested in you know in Vietnam they'll go they'll type in "Vietnam" and then all of the transcripts will come up And if they're interested in a particular thing about Vietnam they can search for those particular words or things. AM Okay. SY And they'll have this - this sample set right of Norwich graduates and they'll be able to sort of you know ascertain certain things about US foreign policy in the 20th century I mean the idea is that this will be a research tool. AM Oh okay. SY Yeah So that's - that's essentially that's the way it works. AM Go. SY All right So here we are I'm interviewing Angus Macaulay It is May 5th - AM Are we on? SY Yeah I'm on And I'll just cut out that first part where we were chatting It's May 5th - correct? Yeah and we're at his house in Maine and we're going to begin interviewing I need to check levels AM Okay SY So if you could just I don't know tell me what you ate for breakfast today AM Well this is about - how is that level? Does that level work for you? SY Yeah it's pretty good If we can get just a little closer - AM A little closer Does that level work for you? SY Yeah that's good AM All right SY Let me actually check one thing I need to make sure - I need to know which - yep okay that is number one Okay AM Okay. SY So we're just going to start out a little bit with your early life So where were you born? AM Was born in New York Actually I was born in White Plains New York but I was raised in Chappaqua New York which is just about 35 miles north of New York City and born in 1942 SY And when you were a kid did you have any idea of what you wanted to be when you grew up? AM Well as we were talking earlier I had a you know a couple of things in my life One was I had done a lot of artwork as a kid and I had several members of my family that had served in the military So those were sort of the two options that I was looking at both military and art And I applied to Norwich I also applied to a couple of art schools several art schools in fact And my father who had been an artist early in his life really thought that it would be better for me to get a four-year education And I - so I applied to Norwich I got in and that's where I went That was really the only- that was the only I think there were a couple of other schools I applied and got into but it was the only one that I was really interested in SY And had you gone up and visited beforehand? AM Yeah I think I did Yeah as a matter of fact I think I did SY Do you remember what your impression of it was? AM No I really can't remember at this time I mean I - obviously I - the impressions are all with - when you - I can't remember the highway Route 7 is that the one that comes up from the south? Or Route 9 or whatever it is? Route 9 So I always remember coming back to school The - you sort of see the lights of the school and it did look a little - a little cool particularly in the wintertime So that was my impression But it was always a very pretty campus so SY And something I actually always ask in these interviews with people who have ended up going to war is did you play war as a kid? AM Did I play war as a kid? I think anybody who was raised - born during the war and raised during - in the 50s of course we played war I mean we take a look at what was - take a look at what was playing on the movie houses Every time they ever show the movie Sands of Iwo Jima the Marine Corps goes up so yeah we all did SY Yeah AM So SY OK so - so then you get to Norwich and some people find rook week easy some people find rook week to be quite a shock How did you deal with that first moment of- AM I think I probably adapted easier than most simply because I had gone away to prep school and I had lived away from home And when I put them all - string out years away from home I probably had six six and a half seven years as a boarding student away from my - both my parents were professionals My mother was a writer my dad was an art director/consultant So I was comfortable with living away from home I'd also had an uncle and a cousin that'd gone to West Point so they kind of clued me in to what to expect in other words don't attract too much attention to yourself and get real small for your first year and stay out of trouble So I don't think I was overly shocked by what I found I think there were a lot of people in my class that were and obviously it didn't work out for them and they left The turnover in my class was exceptionally high I believe we had - we started with something like 440 and we wound up graduating about 240 So there was a culture unfortunately up there of breaking you And I think that if you're in that kind of a situation you allow yourself to bend and not break SY Do you remember any moments where you were like what the hell did I get into? AM No SY Yeah AM No SY And do you remember - AM Be sure to speak up because - SY Oh I'm sorry! AM Yeah SY Yeah so you don't remember moments of doubt? AM No SY And do you remember were there moments of - were you frightened? AM No SY Were there parts of being a rook that you enjoyed? AM That I enjoyed? I think I enjoyed the idea of being in a group and I think it's still - this is - I think it's fairly true today I noticed that at Norwich there still is a great deal of bonding within each class And I was in K Company and I - it's funny because every once in a while I'll run into somebody who was in K Company when we were freshman And I was in other companies at Norwich in subsequent years and they would always bring back that we were in K Company together So there was a great bonding as a freshman So if you want to say did I enjoy that? Yeah I enjoyed that I enjoyed the idea of bonding I come out of a prep school - a coeducational prep school I came out of a very liberal prep school I had three girls four girls in my class who went to Bennington I mean you want to talk about you know complete opposites We had kids who went to Reed out in Oregon For me to go to Norwich they all thought I was nuts But - and actually I think I felt closer to the guys I was at Norwich with than I did with the kids I was in prep school with although my politics are probably more tuned you know skew more liberal than 90% of my class In fact they probably still do today SY Yeah I'm guessing just from having talked to members of your class and having talked to you Yeah So and that's actually something that I was thinking about in the drive up You're a year you're a year younger than my parents I know they were in college when you were in college and had very different experiences For them they were you know getting actively involved in the protest culture that was going on around them So at Norwich you were sort of insulated from the 60s that was emerging around you Were you sort of aware of the - did you feel alienated from the larger context of youth culture in the US? Was that something you thought about when you were there? AM I think that - I think quite frankly I'm not sure I agree with you First of all the culture of the 60s the counterculture of the 60s which you're talking about is something that happened - SY It's a little later AM That happened a little later That happened in 1968 '69 I think we were very much aware of what was going on in the civil rights movement And I - one of the things that - perhaps one of my most vivid memories is when I was 15 years old I went by myself on a bus ride from New York to Tucson Arizona which took me through Georgia Alabama Mississippi and Louisiana And I was by myself and I saw all of the segregation that was going on in the South And my parents were both very very liberal and they warned me about being very careful about what I said That said it also - my selection at Norwich had a great deal to do with why I did not apply to either VMI or The Citadel both of which I probably would have gotten into but I had some real issues with - the whole issue with segregation And it's interesting because at Norwich we were really insulated - we were insulated from that inasmuch as there were no African-Americans in our class And I remember there was a kid - there were a couple of kids - one Brooks who is now on the Board - I think he's on the Board of Trustees He was a year be- couple of years behind me And then there was a guy by the name of Harvey But there were only two or three African-Americans in our class at Norwich when I was there so it was predominantly a very white school It was also a very blue collar school SY Can you talk about that? AM Hmm? SY Can you talk about that? AM Sure I mean I you know I - yeah it was very blue collar One of my classmates Jake Sartz used to say "It's a blue collar military school." A lot of these kids you know I was - I had a sort of biz- I was bizarre A I was a prep school kid - there weren't a lot of prep school kids there Both of my parents were college educated My grandparents were college educ- my grandfather had a PhD in romance languages So I was with guys that - you know we had one classmate of mine who remains one of my favorite people and his father was a garbage collector and he put his child through Norwich and put another kid through college I think that's the great - that's who we are as a society or who we should be as a society Unfortunately I don't think that's where we're going now I think we've gotten to the point now where college education is so prohibitively expensive that it's going to be impossible for a lot of kids who deserve an education aren't going to get them Now all of this said my roommate my senior year - his father was a doctor His sister was at Marymount down in New York and she went on to Georgetown and got her doctorate in microbiology So - and Barry had also been through prep school So there were - there were some of us that had you know whose parents were well educated Roger Bloomfield - his father had gone through the merchant - what was that state? - New York State Maritime Academy and his mother had gone to Skidmore so it's not - and he was from Wellesley so it's not just saying I was alone Predominantly most of these kids were first generation college edu- these were the first kids in the you know to go to college and it was terrific SY Yeah So you were Senior Buck which means to some degree - could you talk about that? AM Yeah I was a Senior - I was a private for my freshman year for my first half of my sophomore year I was promoted to Corporal for my second semester and I was a Senior Buck my junior - a Junior Buck and a Senior Buck I was also involved with - in those days we did a lot of you know we had all these big weekends like Junior Week and Regimental Ball Weekend and all that stuff I did all the decorating for all those things I mean you go back and look at my stuff underneath my thing I was involved in the Outing Club I was involved in Hilly Chilly- do you know what Hilly Chilly is? Mountain and cold weather training I was on the Rescue Team and that was certainly - all of the guys on the Rescue Team - I think I was the only private on the Rescue Team I'm not s- it just wasn't all that important All that rank was - it would have been nice but it wasn't critical I mean we were all going to be Second Lieutenants when we graduated so quite frankly I you know and as I said to you at lunch I thought I saw a lot - as much bad leadership as I saw good leadership I saw some guys up there that - Roger Bloomfield was one Terry Van Meter was another - Terry Van Meter loved the military I mean this guy you know morning noon and night he loved the military but he never foisted it on anyone else He did his job and whatnot On the flip side there were some guys up there that were just - who were colonels and majors and they were - to them it was - it was really political and they were jerks And by the way these are the guys that don't come back to reunions and these the guys that don't give any money to the school I'm sure SY Yeah so you said earlier that you were sort of able to separate the bullshit from what you felt was meaningful So I guess what did you find meaningful and what did you kind of think was bullshit? How did you - AM I thought the Honor Code was the most meaningful thing I got out of the school In fact I wrote to Rich Schneider after reading the book - there's a wonderful book called The Nightingale's Song and it is about John McCain James Webb John Poindexter and Bud McFarlane They were all naval academy graduates they all lived under the honor code You know the story of McCain in Vietnam you know the st- I don't know if you know much about Jim Webb but Jim Webb was a Navy Cross recipient These guys were honorable men Poindexter and McFarlane and Oliver North all got involved with you know with this thing with Iran-Contra and cover-ups and whatnot and it's all about the honor And that's what the book is about and I wrote to Rich Schneider and I said that should be required reading that if you don't have personal honor you don't have nothing SY So do you remember moments when the Honor Code was applied? (phone rings) When you ah let's pause for a moment - AM Don't worry about it SY I don't know I've interviewed other people who had ethical struggles They just - AM I did SY Could you talk about those? AM Yeah I'll tell you a funny story We had a professor that every year would - I was - I can't even remember the course - and - but he would always publish - he always asked three questions on his final exam or five questions whatever it was out of 10 questions or 20 questions And there was always the same 20 questions and he always selected five of them And somebody had figured it out and so what I did was I figured out what 20 questions were and knew what the 20 answers to 20 questions were And I passed the course and all of a sudden I said "Was that an ethical issue?" And so I went to John [Molano?] who was I mean this sounds stupid believe me it sounds - I mean I think how stupid it is I went to Molano who was the Head of the Honor Committee I said "Joe you know I may the heck I may have committed an honor code violation." And I explained it to Joe and Joe said "Get lost That's Mickey Mouse." There were yeah there were honor code violations you know that I saw up there I don't - I don't remember there wasn't any -a lot of stealing I mean it just - it worked Is that what you're asking? SY Yeah moments like that - or how you internalized it It sounds like you resonated with it right away? How was it taught I guess is my question? AM How did you what? SY How was it taught? AM Well (laughs) honestly it's real simple A cadet does not lie steal cheat or condone people who do I mean (laughs) it's not much more to it than that Now you might have a booklet that explains all the legal ramifications but that's the - it's almost like an article in the Constitution it's real simple language - SY And you bought into it right away? It resonated with you? AM I think you buy into it because quite frankly if you don't have it you got to live with yourself And there are things we all - I wrote in that book that I gave you that you did for my 25th reunion about PTSD Did you remember to - did you read what I wrote about it? That there may be instances of PTSD that were caused by people who did things that they weren't particularly proud of Now I'm not sure I haven't modified that a bit to be more empathetic and understanding of what PTSD is I think everybody suffered from it at some degree But I think there were people that if you did watch that documentary on My Lai I was struck - there were two people who were involved one person who feels no responsibility for it and another one who feels a great deal of responsibility for it And I think PTSD has - there is - there were cases of situa- I don't know how people could live with themselves if they committed the kinds of offenses that were committed in Vietnam SY So I mean a big - right I mean when you're looking at something like My Lai or when you're looking at something like Abu Ghraib right? It requires being able to not follow orders right sometimes? AM I had an instance when I first got to Vietnam where I had a platoon and I was assigned to work with an infantry company And we had taken a prisoner - actually we had two of them and both of them were badly wounded they may have been patched up - well one of them excuse me one of them was badly wounded the other one was just tied up He was tied with his hands behind his back And they brought them out to where we were They flew them out by helicopter and we were going to go search for the weapons because the guy was going to take us to where his weapons were And he - one of them was so badly wounded he was on a stretcher and they were actually putting what do you call it some fluids into him or they actually had a bottle up there and the whole trail But the other guy he took these guy- he took the infantry men over to this spider trap - these are tunnels - and he said "It's down - my weapons are down there." And one of the guys went down there and it was booby trapped with spik- with Punji sticks Do you know what they are Punji sticks? They're sharpened bamboo sticks And they pulled him out The guy was messed up badly and everybody was trying to help this guy get him out of the hole and the prisoner broke loose and ran away And fortunately somebody - it took them about a half an hour but they did find him And they brought him back and one of the Vietnamese interpreters started to really beat him up badly to try and get information from him And at one point they dragged him over to one of our armored personnel carriers and said "OK let's roll over - let's roll over him with it." And at that point I said "OK pal that's about as far as I'm going to go." I mean I - you know I was brand new and that's no excuse and this guy was obviously a captain and I was a lieutenant but at that point I saw this thing was going to go across the edge that I wasn't ready to go I think there were a lot of people that were forced into those kinds of situations throughout Vietnam And I'm not going to kid you if you think that any one of us were easy on POWs you're dreaming It was just a very very difficult time particularly when you lost people That gives no excuse to what happened at My Lai because that was his excuse was "I lost a lot of people." Well goddammit I lost a lot of people but I didn't kill people to even the score and what - how are you evening the score? That one I don't get And how do you do it by evening the score with men women and children - or with women and children? I mean that is even further afield so Does that answer your question? SY Yeah what do you think enabled you to stand up to that captain in that moment? (repeats herself louder) What do you think enabled you to stand up to that captain in that moment? AM I don't think it was a big deal I mean I just said "It ain't gonna happen sir." And that didn't happen I mean it just wasn't going to happen I was not going to put one of my vehicles or one of my kids in a position where he had to make you know where he had to be part of that SY In terms of what I've been reading about Vietnam and PTSD I think part of what happened to a lot of enlisted men was that they didn't have officers who were taking care of them right? So the fact that you were thinking about what that would do to the men in your platoon protected them and so there was still a moral universe that they were functioning within Does that make sense? AM Well I think it makes sense I - there's a film out called Platoon I don't know if you've ever seen it but if you haven't seen it I really suggest you do And in the film the platoon sergeant Sergeant Barnes literally was pushing a platoon leader a young lieutenant around you know so you're not going to do this you're not going to do that Quite frankly I had the good fortune of having served for a year in K- almost a year in Korea I'd been a company commander in Korea and I had more sergeants rep- I had you know piles of sergeants reporting to me and other officers So at that point nobody was going to talk - no non-commissioned officer was going to talk to me and no enlisted officer - no enlisted man- was going to talk to me By the same token I had a wonderful medic who worked for me who used to remind me that we all put our pants on the same way every morning one leg at a time And quite frankly it was a tough enough situation that I didn't - you didn't have to spend a lot of time saluting and whatever I must say that in - I was really quite honored of the fact that I was always shown the greatest respect The main guys were very good to me Maybe the best reward I got was I got a wonderful gold watch mailed to me by my unit after I left I don't know how the guys got those gold watches from their unit We got you know other stuff But you know when I got that that's always been a prize possession SY What do you think made you a good leader? (repeats herself louder) What do you think made you a good leader? AM I don't know that I was a good leader I just (laughs) - I was a - you know I - that's tough to say what is a good leader and what's a bad leader? I think it - it's a matter of - well there's a thing that they try and - they used to try and talk about it The most important thing to start with is the mission I mean you got a job to do And then the second most important thing is to take care of your people And then the third thing to worry about is to take care of yourself Unfortunately I used to put it this way Vietnam was full of a lot of guys who were interested in their career There were not a lot of professionals We were talking about Fran Brennan who was the Class of 1964 Fran was a consummate professional I went down and spent a day with Fran He was a company commander He had A Company- first of the 6th Infantry You could just see the way he carried himself from the way he acted around his people that this was a guy they absolutely loved and respected So you know what do I think makes a great leader? Guys like Fran Brennan they're great leaders and what you try to do is you know you try and think how would Fran Brennan have operated? I had a comp- troop commander a company commander in Korea named [Daryl Blaylock?] and he was the same kind of guy He'd been an all-American at Alabama played football career army officer - and it was just the way he treated people If you treat people with respect you know and make them p- not make them part of the decision process because it isn't a democracy You always have to remember at best it's an enlightened despotism That you just treat people with respect make them part of the process let them know what's going on try not to be too terribly - show any you know too terrible - fear because quite frankly when things start happening quickly as it did a number of times after a while you try not to show it if you can But by the way anybody who tells you you weren't scared is either a fool or crazy or doesn't know what they're talking about SY Yeah Let's go back a little bit Did you commission right after you graduated? AM Right SY You did? AM Yeah SY Yeah And you went to Korea? AM Well first I went down to Fort Knox and I spent - went down to the Armor Officers Basic course at Fort Knox And I had volunteered for Vietnam at Norwich SY Really? And did you know what was going on over there? AM Oh yeah But I - this is part of who I am I mean to be honest is that I kind of sensed what was going - I sensed the importance of what was going on I'm not sure I sens- understood exactly what was going on The Battle of Ia Drang Valley happened the month my senior year November my senior year 1965 and I volunteered not only for Vietnam but I volunteered for the First Calvary Division I'm not sure well first of all I said how the hell can you be in the army and not be where it's happening? What I didn't realize and I came to realize very quickly is that it was the defining moment of my generation I have classmates of mine who and God Bl- I love them dearly and they went to Germany and/or you know they went to Fort Polk Louisiana or Fort Benning and spent two years and got out and did nothing I mean they did their service and they're honorable veterans and they probably would have been superb guys in Vietnam but they weren't there And there was a big difference between being there and not being there So I went to Fort Knox and then when I got to Fort Knox they told me that I had to spend a year at Fort Knox before going to Vietnam but I was going They said "You're going." And I said "Well what am I going to do?" And they said "Well you're going to be an OCS TAC officer You're going to run like Officer Candidates like at Norwich." And I went I hated that stuff I hate all that nonsense of shining your shoes and running around and taking people and bossing and all that stuff And I said "I would really would rather be with troops I want to be with real troops." And so I went to see my company commander and I said "Is there a way I can find some troop duty?" And the guy said "Well not unless you're willing to go to Korea." And I said "Fine I'll go to Korea for a year." And he says "You're crazy." And I went "Yeah but I'm single and I got you know." You see when you're that single I mean you have no other responsibilities and so I got on the phone on - it was funny because there was another guy I grew up with from Pleasantville New York - actually Jimmy [Skiff?] - and Jim said "Gee that's a great idea." He wan- he was going to Vietnam too We had the same timetable And so Jim sat down and wrote a letter to somebody in the Pentagon and I sat down and somebody gave me a phone number and I called the guy - called this guy He said "You crazy?" I said "Yeah." He said "Fine I'll cut your orders this afternoon." You know and Jim had to wait four weeks to get an answer (laughs) So I went to Korea and I got to Korea And they were going to send me to a tank outfit and I went "No I'd rather go to a cav outfit." And they said "Well we got a tank outfit open we need somebody in it - cav outfit." I said "I really rather go to a cav unit." And so I went to attend cav and you know I spent almost nine months there SY What were you doing in Korea and what was your impression of Korea? AM Well you have to realize I still think Korea is even today the most dangerous place in the world We were working - the cav squadron which is a battalion was operating with the 7th Division I started out basically in staff headquarters but they immediately moved me over to B Troop And I was the First Platoon Leader of B Troop and also the Executive Officer because the guy only had - it was the Captain and myself And there were - because Vietnam you got to realize there was such a shortage of officers that it was just him and me And one day he walked in I guess this was around - I put it in my notes but it was in the spring of 1967 he came in and he said - I think I'd been in there three months three and a half months - and he said "Well I got good news and good news." I said "What's that?" He said "The good news is I'm going home early and I'm leaving in two weeks." I said "Great What's the other good news?" He says "You're the new troop commander." So what - Second Lieutenant is normally slotted for platoon and the idea that I'm running now a company and I was doing it by myself with a bunch of sergeants And these guys were terrific I mean these guys really took me under their wing and they taught me a lot of good stuff And so I did that for a year and then finally I started getting in platoon leaders - all of whom by the way had come out of OCS and all of them you know I was at that point I was older than most of these guys I was 24 25 - 24 And these guys were 18 - well no not 18 they were about 19 and 20 years old One or - one of them - two of them had two years of college but they had quit college They were very much like William Calley He was a product of you know he'd spent a year in college and gotten thrown out and. And you know OCS at one time was really one of the really premier ways of commissioning guys During Vietnam I saw a bunch of guys come out of OCS - some of them I thought were terrific and some of them I thought were just bozos because they just - and it wasn't their fault It was - they were just so young So anyway I ran the company for - until September We were basically doing everything from working - doing some work up on the DMZ Basically we were just an occupation force doing a lot of stuff out in the field a lot of training out in the field which was really great for me because by the time I got to Vietnam I was familiar with working with vehicles I was familiar with working with people I was working with - familiar with working with maps with radios and all this stuff Whereas if I had stayed at Fort Knox I would have never gotten that kind of experience Fast forward when I show up in Vietnam I said "Oh I'm up on my way to the 1st Calvary." They said "Well they've changed your orders You're going now to F Troop 17th Cav part of the 196th Light Infantry." Now two things went through my mind First of all I had been at Fort Devens when the 196th was there and they were a complete bozo outfit They were really - couldn't find their way out of a paper bag And the worst of them was this F Troop So I had a real problem and I got up there and of course they'd been in Vietnam for over a year By that time it had all of this all of the badness knocked out of them They were very very good; they were very seasoned When I got to the unit the troop commander opened my 2-0-1 file they looked at my 2-0-1 file and they said "You have more command time than I do." He said "Do you mind commanding a platoon again?" And I said "Why? I'm - I was just promoted to First Lieutenant not to Captain of the whatever-you-want-me-to-do." So I was a platoon leader for four months and then became Executive Officer just when the Tet Offensive broke out SY When you think about Vietnam do you have sense memories of Vietnam? Smells sounds? AM I don't think there's a day - there's a day that doesn't go by that I don't think about it SY How do you think about it? How does it come to you? AM That's hard to say I mean it just you know different things You know just yeah I mean your mind always sort of lies - I mean for years I couldn't go to sleep at night before without drifting back to it Now it's a lot easier I've remained very close to the people In fact this morning I wrote to - oh probably we're going to have a reunion down in Florida in October and one of the guys who actually had been a driver for me - he and I are coordinating Another guy who had been a driver for me - radio operator you know we're just trying to put it all together so you know I for some reason I will always think about it I mean it just - it comes back so I mean you have to realize that the intensity of those situations particularly the ones when there was some where people were either getting hurt or you were hurting people or you want to call it combat or whatever It's all slow motion I don't know when you talked to other people whether they've said the same thing that you - it - I can - the first big firefight I got into I felt like after you know it seemed like hours Of course I looked at my watch and we'd only been going at it for a half an hour and I felt like I'd been there for four hours or five hours So you're - this - it becomes very intense and the memories and the images become very very vivid in your mind SY Yeah Did you react to battle or combat the way you thought you would beforehand? AM Well as I say in my - in some of the stuff I've left you I mean I - yeah I guess I did No I - that's a hard question to answer I mean I don't know how the hell I thought I was going to react SY How did you react? AM Well I - we - one of the guys because we were a mobile outfit you ask me how could someone have taken pictures? Well because we had mobility and so guys could carry cameras One guy actually had a tape recorder during the middle of a firefight and I remember listening to that tape And it was a major firefight I mean it lasted all day And I think the thing that shocked me the most about that tape was the fact that I sounded reasonably cool on the radio I mean I kept hearing myself and saying "My God you know I was terrified" and I was! And I was listening to the tape and yet the person talking on the radio was not displaying - does that make any sense to you? SY It makes a lot of sense to me that you managed to sort of perform your role AM Well yeah you know - I - yes but don't overstate (laughs) my heroism because believe me it was just - I think it's also part of that if you want to call it the Norwich training or West Point training or VMI or any one of those when you come out of that there's a lot of that stuff that you - it becomes second nature to you to react to and you do it out of understanding that there are procedures that you're going to have to follow And it's very funny because I remember that we used to have this thing called Mars Stations and Mars Stations were these telephone setups where you could call the United States And I'd been overseas at that point probably 15 months and I hadn't spoken to my parents and - it's not like today with a cell phone - and so somebody set up a phone call and when you get on the radio - when you get on the phone you're actually talking on a radio that you know the guy briefing you said "Look it's just like radio procedure" you know you talk and then you say "Over." You know you use all the formality of radio procedure Well hell I get on the phone I was so excited I forgot radio procedure On the other hand my mother who had never talked on a radio in her life had been briefed similar and she was doing everything correctly So yeah I don't know SY Do you still have your letters? Does anybody have the letters you wrote? AM Yeah I have them upstairs and actually I didn't send them to you when they did that issue Yeah I have them SY Would - are you - is there any part - you want to donate them or are they too private? AM There's some things in there It's funny you should say that because when I - when that whole thing came up and they were looking for letters and I was going to send them in and I had found them and it was when I was a company commander And it was a letter I found And by the way ask me about the second letter because I want to talk about the second letter that I got Well no maybe a third one I went and read that letter and it was sort of not chatty it was sort of telling them what was going on This had to have been in the spring of '6-summer of '68 And I remember reading in a line or a paragraph about the fact that one of my people had been charged with rape which was unusual for our unit And what really shocked me today is I can't remember exactly what happened SY I suspect there was so much going on that was so awful all the time that that one just disappeared AM Well you know it's very funny - well before I get to the second letter I'll mention another one We had a - we were operating out of a - at one point in the summer of 1968 they took my company they put us out on a base camp out in the middle of nowhere in the Quế Sơn Valley a place called LZ Colt And by the way there are photographs in that CD that I'm going to give you has pictures of LZ Colt SY I'm wondering if we should look through some of this stuff because it might trigger your memories - AM No I know those photographs pretty well We were out there and we used to send guys home three days before - you came out of the field three days before your turn to rotate You know you went - or two days whatever the deal was And we sent the guy back - we sent this kid back to LZ Baldy which was our forward operating area And he was going to get on a truck and he was going to ride in a truck from LZ Baldy about 40 miles - 40 kilometers south to Chu Lai - and he was going to go through the medical thing and clear all his stuff and then fly home That is the last day That's your date you know that's it you're home and it's a cakewalk at that point He's riding in this truck and coming in the opposite direction is a tank And the guy who's riding on the tank wanted to know how f- asks the tank driver "How fast will this thing really go?" And there's an accident and this kid is killed who's on his way home - the last day! That was whatever that date is and you can look it up was the day that Martin Luther King was shot Is that '68? I think it was '68 SY It was '68 AM Yeah it was either Ja- it was either King or Kennedy I can't remember which It was Kennedy I think It was Kennedy SY Right - AM Bobby Kennedy SY - because they were in rapid succession AM And because I had been a big Kennedy pa- fan somebody radioed me and said "Bobby Kennedy has been shot." It was Bob Kennedy And on the heels of that I heard this other news and I just - I remember my reaction was I could really give a shit about Bobby Kennedy at this point The idea that this poor kid had gone through all of this and then died was ridiculous I mean it was just terrible The other one the other letter and I have the letter It was from a parent of a kid we lost and it was right after I became troop commander And the parents were writing me a letter consoling me for the loss of their own son because quote as I recall the words "they knew the kid had been well-led blah blah blah blah." And the problem is is now if we had been talking about my platoon I could remember every kid in my platoon At that point I had a company I had three platoons I remember the kid's name but I couldn't picture his face And here these parents were writing this incredible letter to me and I couldn't remember the kid's face SY Oh! AM So that's you know these are the you know I don't know And there were so many of these you know you lose one the first - last day in Vietnam We had a kid who was killed - I became troop commander when the troop commander just - I became troop commander twice but the second time which for the longest period I took over when the troop commander's vehicle hit a mine and it was made up of white phosphorous Do you know what white phosphorous is? It burned the whole thing burned the entire crew up And he got blown free and he got out and quite frankly it's too bad he got out He should have been killed because quite frankly he had put these people in a position where they should not have been You don't cross a bridge in a vehicle You know that there's going to be a mine at the end of that bridge You go find another way It's the only - but anyway I went back and looked at the vehicle The vehicle was up on its end and everything had fallen down inside And I went back and I purposely went in to look at one of the bodies because the kid had just joined the unit and nobody knew who he was And I always felt that I - I felt an obligation to see this kid if only to remember him because nobody else would And in fact he was so new to the unit that they would not allow me to positively identify him I think you had to be in the unit for seven days or six days or something like that before anybody could give you a positive ID So he was obviously shipped home and done by dental records or something like that So it was you know that was you know there was always that first day there was that last day there was the letter I mean you get these sort of bizarre things that happen to you so there SY Did you have to write letters home - AM Oh yeah SY - when a kid in your unit died? Do you remember that process? AM Yeah and that was strange because I as I said I became troop commander twice The second time- and again it's in that recollections that I wrote- my troop commander went on R&R and he went on R&R the day the Tet Offensive broke out And that in itself would have been OK except we didn't know how serious it was so he went home And he was gone - usually those R&Rs were about a week and he was gone for close to two weeks maybe even a little longer And of course part of the Tet Offensive was they were out planting mines and booby traps all over the place In the first vehicle we lost we had 13 guys on board and all of them were killed Now four of them were part of my troop and nine of them were from the infantry So somebody else had to write those other nine letters but I had to write those four letters But the last guy killed in the whole that two-week period happened to be a guy who was probably my best friend He was a buck sergeant who had been in my platoon And his name was Ron Adams just a terrific guy This was his - he had been in Vietnam with another unit had been sent to us He had had prior service He had been in - I think he had been in the Air Force or Navy I guess - married had a child And I actually got to I mean we were close enough that I knew about his wife and his children and all so And so I sat down and I wrote - I went beyond the quote "standard letter" because I thought that that's what they would want to hear from me because obviously I assumed that they knew that we were pretty good friends Then the letter got bounced back - you can't write that You have to use the form Now in 1997 I posted something about Ron on the virtual wall And I guess I left my email because the next thing I know I got an email from his niece and the next thing I know I got an email from Ron's sister And then Ron's sister called me and asked - she was coming up to Boston - we were living in Boston at the time - and so she would she asked if she could come out and see me I said "Absolutely." So we spent the whole day together talking about her brother And what was sad about it - it was she said you know when he was wounded or when he was killed he was first listed as MIA And she said "The impression we always had is that he had been missing and you all had left him." And I said "Well no nothing but - his vehicle blew up is what happened" and he and another fellow - a kid by the name of Lester Smart Mack Smart Maxwell Smart from Get Smart - remember that movie? Well that's why his nickname was Mack And I said "No no he was killed and you know we put him together and sent him back." And she said "We were always under the impression that you had left him." And I said "Well again that was not true." So. SY I wish you'd been able to send that letter AM Huh? SY I wish you'd been able to send that first letter AM Well you know listen I - you know I write better today than I did then (laughs) I prob- no I you know listen I must say that one thing that supposedly Lyndon Johnson did - are you aware that he signed every letter? SY I wasn't. AM Yeah SY That's interesting AM The way it worked from what I understood is that when someone was lost it would go - the company commander would write a letter and then the battalion commander brigade division And I think it went down to MACP [mortuary affairs collection point] and Westmoreland would sign the letter and then a letter went home But then the whole package went to the White House and he signed it Now I don't know if that's true or not but that was what I was under the impression is the way it operated But the President's letter started and yours was on the bottom But yeah I wrote - that was difficult On the other side I got a letter from one of my - I'll just say one of my company commanders - I won't identify which one But I got - because we were a separate battalion - company we had no battalion I got - somebody walked in my office one day we were back in the rear he said "Lieutenant we have a letter for the chaplain." I said "Well I suppose I'm the chaplain too." And I opened it up and it was from some woman who was obviously an extra-marital girlfriend of the Captain and she was wondering why he hadn't written (laughs) I knew he was married so I - I just - I put that one in the circular file I didn't want to touch that one so my experience of being a chaplain was very short-lived SY Very brief so the guy who you said was your best friend he was a sergeant? AM Yeah SY So was that - I somehow thought because he was technically enlisted because he was an NCO - (repeats herself louder) because he was an NCO - AM Right SY - and you were a commissioned officer would that be considered fraternizing? How did those boundaries work? AM Well I you know I don't think - that - you got to re- I mean think about that question Think about it - no it doesn't - no all that stuff go- that is f- that maybe works in the rear some place But it doesn't work in the real world when somebody is shooting at you or you're out on an operation Now I had a - there was a - I have had - I had one young guy - night we were working an operation and we were working at night and we were loggered up - "loggered up" is like we were hunkered into a position and we had a - we were being infiltrated And I was very cautious about opening fire at night primarily because tracer rounds will give you away And I was telling the guys that "Look these people were coming in so close that we can use hand grenades And the reality is is that hand grenades will leave no telltale where they came from So I want you to toss a grenade out there and scare them away." Quite frankly I didn't want to get into a firefight at that point because it all - it's too confusing but there was an American - we were on one side of a river and there was an American unit on the other side of the river And what I was terrified and actually did happen was we - two American units wound up shooting at each other And that kind of stuff happened But anyway during the course of this sort of very quiet radio talk going back and forth between myself and the sergeant the guy kept saying that he was going to open up fire and I said finally I said "Goddammit I'm the lieutenant and today I get to be the troop commander Now tomorrow if I'm dead and you are the troop commander you can make that decision." And you know but I didn't have to do that kind of stuff a lot That you know that didn't - SY There was no standing on ceremony AM No It really wasn't I will tell you I think probably one of the more amusing - we were out in the valley and there were 30 ve- we had 30-plus vehicles - and it was raining it was lousy and it had been a very uneventful trip And you have to understand everybody is plugged in Everybody has a radio set on everybody's got a microphone the whole thing So you got 30+ vehicles four men - at least four guys per vehicle so you got 120 radios operating Now my - our call - my call sign was Fox - well my call sign had been Fox 6 but my nickname became Fox So they whenever they were talking they would talk Lieutenant Fox and what have you regardless of what our real call sign was So we're crossing this very very shallow river and it was very muddy and one of the vehicles - and we were tired I mean we'd been out for da- several days and we wanted to get back into base camp I was wet I was tired everybody else was wet everybody else was tired everybody else was fed up to here And I remember all of a sudden I got a radio call I would track behind the first platoon - First A vehicle zone and on my vehicle and then there would be 16 vehicles behind me Is that right? And then essentially well essentially I said 24 there'd be two in the head if I was taking 26 out I guess And one of the vehicles behind me threw his track In other words the whole thing came on - off the tracks Does that make sense to you? OK "threw a track." And I got off on a God- because the guy had taken too sharp a turn And I got on a Goddammit! I went on a blue streak of four letter words and I stood up on my vehicle I was looking back at this guy and I'm going on and on and I hear this voice say "Fuck you Fox!" And I looked around and every eyeball in the unit was looking at me And all of a sudden I realized they were absolutely right They were just as tired they were just as wet they were just as pissed off and all I could do was laugh So I mean does that explain to you the relationship? I mean I'm going to need - I wrote an email this morning - the four guys I'm going to - the three guys I'm trying to get together - we're going to be down and - all of them were sergeants One of them lost both legs and his arm you know and we - we don't call each other lieutenant we don't call each other sergeant It's Angus it's Chris it's Jim it's Tom Tom is an interesting guy Tom is a Catholic priest and if Tom says "All those words that you used on the radio I finally learned what they meant when I got to the seminary" because they swore just as bad as you did So I don't know SY I think that story actually answers the question I asked about you as a leader right? That's a moment of you being a good leader It's a moment of you having a sense of humor about yourself It's a moment of you being able to take criticism and feedback right and respond accordingly? AM I don't know you know I think that - you - I - that's a tough one I mean I can't make any judgments about myself as a leader That's you know if you want to know who I was as a leader then call Chris [Wunzer?] up And call Jimmy [Sherslee?] up Talk to those guys That's one of the things that I think that's interesting is that these were kids who - Chris had gone to North Texas State played football Lee [Guava?] had gone to the University of Wisconsin one of the smaller University of Wisconsin Jim Sherslee actually went in the Army because the judge said "Either you go in the Army or you're going two years in the slammer." SY That was how my dad's best friend ended up going to Vietnam Yeah. AM Tom [Trippenere?] I think was always destined for the priesthood But these kids it's incredible because they all were either drafted - most of them were drafted you know they all took on the responsibilities of being young leaders And believe me being a squad leader or a section leader - or scout section leader - with two vehicles you're responsible for eight guys You know every couple of days you're going to be the first guy on the truck and if you want to look at some pictures at what happens to a truck when they hit a mine it takes a lot of guts a lot of courage So again yeah I mean I think that standing on about the ceremony of rank - but they always treated me with you know proper deference always called me "Sir" or "LT"- does that sort of. SY Yeah Was there any such thing as a standard day in Vietnam - AM No SY - or was it different every day? AM No and what there is is by the way there's no Saturdays off either no Sundays off I mean you're working seven days a week You're working 24 hours SY And are you just in sort of a heightened state of anxiety all the time? AM Yeah I'll tell you what I've tried to describe this over the years as saying - have you ever been in an automobile accident? SY Yes AM You know that funny feeling just before you hit? SY It's that feeling where you're like "Oh I might be about to die How do I feel about that?" AM Well it might not even be that It might be just so much as you know that you're going to crunch the fender and is that - SY Inevitability? AM Yeah Now that's what Vietnam was like You just ride around with that little feeling in your gut all the time SY That's a good description yeah AM Yes so I mean and by the way when you heighten your anxiety to that level that's why everything is so vivid People say "Well how the hell could you remember that?" Very simple You're walking around - if you lived your life that way every day 24/7 first of all you'd probably go mad but - and that's why you get people high I imagine you wind up with you know a certain amount of battle fatigue or what have you whatever they call it so SY Yeah Did you have nightmares when you were there? Or did you have nightmares when you came home? AM No SY No? AM No I remember going on R&R and I went up to R&R to camp - I went up to Camp Zama in Japan - was it Camp Zama? I guess it was Camp Zama in Japan and - because I knew a girl up in Tokyo that I had met on R&R - I had met between tours She was an American She was going to the American School - university in Tokyo And I thought there might be something there but there really wasn't And I you know it's - I was pretty much involved with a gal in the States but this girl was very very nice and I just thought I wanted to go back and spend some time with her But I remember getting to Camp Zama and that first night - all the enlisted guys were going to Japan They all took them over to barracks and whatnot And the officers of which there weren't very many of us took us to an officer's BOQ Bachelor Officer Quarters I got a private room and a shower and all that stuff And I remember having to - first of all I couldn't go to sleep because it was so quiet And then I remember actually pulling all my stuff and sleeping on the floor because I was so used to sleeping on the floor of an APC And on the next night I gave in and went to sleep like a regular person SY Like a regular guy So what are the incidents that you've written up? Are they particular incidents? AM Well the only one I really I mean I had written a long article about a helicopter pilot who I thought had done some extraordinary things on Thanksgiving Day in 1967 which was probably the biggest firefight I was ever in SY Do you want to tell that story? AM Hmm? SY Do you want to tell that story? AM Well it's all there I mean I - it - when I say yeah I mean when I say tell a story I was a platoon leader who - we were - we weren't supposed to be there and I didn't even know this other operation was going on And all of a sudden I got a radio call to move about four -three or four kilometers south that our second platoon was - had been amb- partly ambushed and I didn't even know they were part of a major task force And I got down there and they had been ambushed There were two I think it was two companies of Americans plus our - one of our platoons and four tanks And we had run into - and the size of the unit I'm never been - never quite sure but from what I understand it was a couple of companies of North Vietnamese And they took out the platoon leader's tank which took the task force commander and knocked him off the vehicle The vehicle ran over his arm this Major - I've gotten to know the guy very very well His name is [Gill Dorlan?] So all of a sudden I basically you better move down there and help out And so I blithefully charged in there not having a bloody idea what's going on And when we pull in there all these vehicles were sort of limp and getting shot at and there's this big wooden line on a hill and it was just very very messy And so the article I wrote about or what I had written in that article was a helicopter pilot that came in to drop off some infantry support and wound up and not through his own fault but wound up literally landing in a crossfire between us and the North Vietnamese And rather than just taking off dropping the troops he let his helicopter down and acted as a screen so the troops could come back to our line and he was just getting pasted and finally he took off and he was just you know kicking out smoke and all that stuff and went back And I - I've always thought that was probably one of the most heroic things I've ever seen because it was done on purpose I mean clearly he was trying to keep these kids from getting shot up And then the whole operation lasted I guess three or four days And so the next part of the operation was for us to assault the hill and that again is written in all the reflections that I've written about But what I - a couple of things as I was re-reading that again this morning the things I remember most were one the - when we got the orders to move and you asked me about - SY Ethics? AM No natural leadership and also - there also comes a point in time when you wind up being led because everybody's on a radio and so they heard we were moving out and going up that hill and everybody just started moving I didn't have to tell anybody to move They just started moving I always wondered to myself whether - did I really have the courage to give the order to move? And the next thing I know we're trying to - we're going up this hill That's the first thing I remember most about So I was as led as much up that hill as anybody else The second thing I remember most was it was a struggle getting up that hill because these guys were very - these North Vietnamese were dug in in bunkers and whatnot We had to take them out And then when we got to the top we took a round - an RPG round - on the side of our vehicle that hit our vehicle and did not go off It was a dud It would have killed everybody in our vehicle had it gone off And that's real pucker time when something like that happens where you all of a sudden realize you were that close SY And can you think about that afterwards or do you have to not think about it because it'll make you crazy? AM I don't think I thought about it I mean yeah you think about it I mean I th- I'll tell you what you think about it after - there is a photograph - we'll look at the photographs later but there is a photograph where you can actually see the scar on the side of the vehicle SY So you think about it later the next day AM You think about it later I mean one of the things that I - it's not in that piece is how dry my mouth was I mean it was just - for some reason I don't know why we didn't have more water with us because normally we carried - each vehicle carried five gallons of water But for some reason we didn't have a lot of water I remember that was something and I remember my mouth just tasted like it was cotton on the inside The other thing that happened was - once we cleared - got to the top of the hill and cleared that and we sort of in another - and brought some infantry in with us and they got beaten up very badly We started taking fire from behind us and all of a sudden there was that you know that moment go through your mind that "My God we're surrounded" because they were behind us they were ahead of us and all that stuff And that was pretty scary but also we had so much firepower they weren't going to take us out I mean it was just - it was sort of like a Mexican standoff a lot of shooting And again things out of my notes - I remember a couple of times thinking if everybody would just stop shooting for a few minutes so I could collect my thoughts we'd be probably far better off and I could make more rational decisions (laughs) Yeah I mean and then you know and then of course the thing went on for a couple of days And another recollection I put in there is that we were calling in - there was another village that we're getting a lot of fire from and we called - we were calling in some artillery on it And we were far enough away that I thought you could stand up and observe it until I felt a hunk of shrapnel go by my face and I could feel literally the wind when it went sailing by my head which meant if my head had been two inches three inches left or right I would have been killed And that really scared the hell out of me and I remember going back and getting inside my track and hiding That was - it was a hell of a way to spend Thanksgiving I must say And actually also in my recollections at one point a helicopter - we had been screaming for - we had been screaming for re-supply of ammunition because we'd been shooting all morning and our firing discipline was awful In other words we weren't controlling how much we were shooting and I wasn't paying much attention to it I figured "Hell Uncle Sam's running this thing and my God it's a bottomless pit Look at the Defense Department budget." And so when we started running low on ammunition I called for re-supply And this helicopter came in and it's all dusty and the crap is all flying all over the place our guys are kicking this stuff off and running over- and it was somebody's Thanksgiving dinner It wasn't ours and I don't even know who ate it because I didn't eat any of it But we didn't get any ammunition Now there is a story - a friend of mine told me it was back at brigade headquarters - I got on the radio and I said "Look I need ammunition." And he said "But when you asked for that re-supply and that screwed up" he said "you got on the radio" and he said "you used a string of four-letter words about the incompetence of people." And at that point General [Geddes?] who was Division Commander walked into brigade headquarters and there I - and this was on a loudspeaker- I was. And Geddes is supposed to have said "Somebody better get that young lieutenant some ammunition because I think he's pissed off enough to come back and shoot you guys" or words to that effect Now I don't know whether that yarn is true I'd like to believe it is SY It's a good story AM It's a good story SY I like that story So I've read about when I read - I think this might have even been on some of letters I read from Norwich alumni - I don't remember about superstitions good luck charms especially when people were "short." Right? That's the phrase when you're about to go home? Things you did to try and guarantee your safety Did you have any of those? AM No SY No? AM I will tell you that - you got to realize I'm there - I was overseas at this point for almost - over 20 months at this point That was longer than anybody and I - albeit eight of it had been in Korea And I was terrified And I was terrified that I was going to get hurt And you know it's a very - I've always felt very guilty about that because I'm now responsible for these 195 kids and I'm worried about my own personal safety and that started to bo- that did bother me We were down - we were down at a place called - we were down at LZ Ross and it was on this road that took - went into the Quế Sơn Valley And I have to say that road had more destroyed vehicles and junk on it - you could shake a stick - had probably more road - there was more damage on that road than any place in Vietnam There probably were more but it was damn near And we had been down there and we were coming back and it was the day before my ro- my turning over the troop to the new guy and he was a Captain And we rode past A Company of the 2nd or the 1st I remember that - and this old Captain was running it this great old guy he was like in his 30s and I you know I mean he was an old guy and he was in his 30s (laughs) and he had this terrible limp from one of his wounds And we went through the gate and I went "It's over man!" I got out and you know as long as I don't get hit in a car accident or shot down in a helicopter I'm cool I'm golden I'm home And we get in and we dismounted and all of a sudden a radio call comes in saying that there was a unit had started taking fire and that we were the new reaction force And I remember climbing up on my vehicle and this Captain who was going to replace me Jim Owens started to follow me And I looked at him I said "Jim would you please stay here because if I fuck up now I don't want anybody to see it." And we started to head out the gate and all of a sudden they called us back and I didn't have to go But I have to tell you that - all of a sudden it got scary Now I'm going to - I told you this and I'm going to tell you what I did next which was really stupid Get down to Chu Lai and I bump into two guys I knew One of them was a Captain - Air Force Captain - and the other one was an Army Captain And the three of us went out and got rip roaring drunk and the Air Force Captain said "I got to go make a flight in a -" what do you call it a f- he was a forward air controller in an O-2 these little tiny bird dog airplanes He says "You want to go for a ride?" I got in the airplane we went off we flew out and I said "You know we're getting awfully close to Laos." And we were and he was supposed to be making a weather flight All I know is that was the stupidest thing I could have possibly done We landed - this was maybe two days after I had turned over the troops - and my Executive Officer is standing there and he's got two bags on there I said "What are you doing?" He says "I just got you a two-day drop That's your plane you're going home." And I got on my airplane and I went home SY Do you remember the moment you turned over your command? Do you remember saying goodbye to people? AM Well actually that flag right up there is the troop guidon and I stole it And I stole it because dammit I felt I'd earned it and I figured they could find another one My Uncle Sam has this sort of bottomless pit called the defense budget and I figured hell if they can build this F-35 they can find another flag Yeah I turned the company over to this guy named Jim Owens who was a National Guard officer and he was a good guy wound up losing his leg And I remember turning the troop over to him and it was a very formal ceremony You know a brigade commander was there and the flags were passed and all that stuff And these guys starting passing out the front gate I mean literally mounted up on it right back to the field And I cried like a baby SY And what were you thinking while you were crying? AM That how much I loved those guys and how much I wished I could stay But that's a very lethal place SY Simultaneously you wished you could stay and wanted to run like hell at the same time AM Yeah You know it's very funny because I had a difficult time when I came home - SY Yeah let's talk about that AM - because I realized I was pretty - when you say I was a good leader I don't know if I was a good leader but I was good at my job And I knew what I was doing And probably the biggest thing that was wrong with that whole war was the fact that it took them a year to find a - somebody who really understood his job and all of a sudden they bring in this guy nice guy but they had to teach him that job all over again SY Right And so everybody was rotating out as soon as they got seasoned AM Yeah I mean once you understood - I mean we would have gotten out of Vietnam if somebody had said "OK we're going to send a half a million Americans to Vietnam and the only people that are - the only people that get to come home are the wounded and the dead And we're just going to keep sending replacements so anyway so those of you guys who were there you'd better win this damn thing" because that's basically the way the North Vietnamese were operating I mean these guys you know that's the thing we all seem to forget is that they were good soldiers They were hard tough soldiers and these guys A were fighting for all the values that we purportedly were fighting for and the reality is that they didn't get to go home They fought until they were either dead wounded or you know They certainly didn't go home on R&R and they didn't have you know Coca Cola they didn't have television they didn't have all that nonsense We brought too much creature comforts to it all I remember going down to Chu Lai on a stand down - we used to pull units out took them down and basically cleaned guys up because after you've been out on the field for a while they pick up all sorts of garbage And you want to get them a little life of sanity you see SY We're talking like lice fungus like all - AM Well we would take them down to the Chu Lai beach and we used to rotate a platoon down at a time And you know we'd get down there and we'd get them some steak and we'd you know beer and take them to the beach and all that stuff And there were - I guess they went to the village and played around with the girls I suppose SY I was going to say they picked up some other things too AM Yeah that's true too But I remember riding along the bunker line at Chu Lai and riding by a bunker - and I was - and when I was down in Chu Lai I actually put on my little lieutenant bar and all that stuff pretended to be an officer And I remember riding by the bunker line at night and all of a sudden I saw what looked like I thought a television screen And I stopped the guy backed up - we backed up my Jeep and drove over to the bunker And these guys were in there watching television and they were watching and laughing And I'm saying to myself "This is insanity You got kids out there -" and that by the way is the other issue And I don't know any of the other guys you talked to about - you talked to Bill Bonk - Bill was on a very [012352] (inaudible) aviation outfit and you really couldn't make a lot of mistakes in his business because not only were you getting shot at but you also had to fly an airplane We didn't have the drug problem and that's something you haven't asked about The drug problem - I imagine it went on I know that I caught one guy with - a buck sergeant early on with a guy in my platoon actually - I caught him with a - SY A joint? AM - like a baggie full of five joints He was changing a track and he was looking for a cigarette And he says "Lieutenant would you reach in my pocket and get a cigarette?" Well I reached in and grabbed a pack but I felt something else I pulled it out I looked at it and I just dropped it in the mud and stepped on it and handed him his cigarettes But I don't recall drugs being a big problem - SY So there was no heroin in your unit? AM No no But - the marijuana - but we did have situations where people would bring it up that "So-and-so is smoking dope." And this is how I handled it We had a mortar section and a mortar section is - do you know what a mortar is? SY Uh-huh AM OK We had a mortar section and we had three mortars And I guess we had maybe 10 guys and it was in our big base camp And we couldn't - we didn't carry those mortars out to the field They were too heavy and they were a pain in the neck and carried off too much ammunition shot it off too fast and a lot - too many problems associated with mortars So we just left them in and we left the crews there and we left a lot of illumination And their job was that if base camp got hit they would you know the parachute flares the illumination also So I stole an idea from a movie and it was a wonderful probably the best leadership movie I've ever seen called Twelve O'clock High where the commander of the aviation unit has - takes all the bad guys in the unit and puts them in one bomber He calls it the - what the hell did he call it? I can't remember what he called it - it'll come to me But he put all the bad eggs in one basket So I made - so I took anybody I caught smoking dope I put them down in the mortar pits All you had to do was drop rounds and pop illumination And I would tell guys you're going to you know you're going down to purgatory and you're going down there and if you go home with heroin habits that's your problem but I'm not going to have you in the field Now was it a big problem? No and only because most of the guys didn't want to go to the field with a doper SY Right What about race in your unit? That's the other thing - AM Race? SY - we haven't talked about yeah AM That's an interesting question and I'll answer it two ways One is when guys - it was called the Leper Colony I would call them the Leper Colony that's what it was I had a platoon leader who was from Tennessee and he was a real Southerner and named Larry [Beetle?] - nice guy And Larry came to me at one point and he said "You know when you get a replacement in if you say well I need a rifleman." Who needs a rifleman? "Second Platoon needs a rifleman." So I just sent him Well Larry came to me one day and he said "Well you know I know you don't think about this but I'm the only white guy in the unit in my platoon." And all of a sudden I went whoah! And I started looking around and sure enough most of the Second Platoon - I think there were maybe one or two guys - the platoon sergeant was white - actually it was platoon leader was a Cherokee Indian and all of a sudden I saw that there was a potential problem So I just quietly started moving people around The other racial issue that came up was recently I was out in - two years ago or a year and a half ago? - two years ago I was down in Washington at a reunion and I was with one of our guys named Bill [Fong?] Bill was Chinese And I said to Bill because of my family association with the 442nd we got talking about Japanese-Americans in the Second World War with the 4-4-2 and I said "How as an Asian did you feel with all the dehumanizing that we do very well in the United States when we want to get angry at an enemy -" By the way it's common practice by everybody so it's not just an American trait OK? And he said you know - I said "How did you deal with that? I mean you're out in the field with some guy who's calling - using all those pejorative terms? How do you deal with that?" And Bill said "Lieutenant you got to remember you know they're all stupid people in the world." SY It still must have been hard AM Yeah so you don't. He said "Ninety percent of the time I was dealt with as an American and not as the fact that I was Chinese-American." And he said "Ten percent of the time they're stupid." SY Do you think there is a way to fight a war without that type of deh- (repeats herself louder) Do you think there is a way to fight a war without that type of dehumanization of the enemy? AM No I wish there were It's interesting because we've allowed it - it's become more apparent in this current situation with the Islamic war than it certainly was with Vietnam I mean I you know you got to realize like in Korea they had all the different - that all worked in Korea too Slope dank you know - SY Gook? AM Gook - the whole thing It's funny is that whenever they - and Charlie and of course whenever we got screwed badly and someone would say Charles' name it was a sign of respect - we would call him Charles - Charles has been up to his hole But this whole thing with the situation in Islamic thing I hear people talk and I go I cannot believe they talk the way they do And somebody wrote to me recently - an ultra-conservative person - who said "Well we all do it." No we all don't do it I'm afraid that's no that you just don't do that You don't - and he gave me all the lists of words that people use And I said no we don't use those words - you may use them but don't try and paint me with your brush SY Yeah Have you ever been tempted to go back to Vietnam - AM No SY - to visit? No? Interesting AM Not really It - I mean it's -have you seen pictures of the place? It's absolutely gorgeous SY I have yeah AM But no no I mean I've seen it I will say that I do go back to Korea and that - I've been back to Korea three times not up to where I was But I've been to Seoul three times and I mean the difference between Seoul - when I saw Seoul in 1968 I think the highest building in Seoul was eight stories Now it's - have you ever been to Seoul? SY No but I have a close - a couple of close friends who are living there AM I mean it's a very cosmopolitan city SY It is yeah I have to run to the bathroom So let's take a little break and then - and I'm also aware that you're probably getting tired - (audio break) AM Coming home? SY I was going to ask you about coming home Let me turn this back on AM Has this been basically what you wanted? SY This is great This is exactly what I want So let's talk about coming home and let's also talk about how the anti-war movement has been building up while you were in Vietnam So is this something that you hear - AM Are we on? SY Yeah we're on Is this something that you sort of had been hearing about in Vietnam? Or is it something you have time to think about? Is it something you - AM No We have time to think about that nonsense I think this anti-war movement - I think your generation is as fascinated with the anti-war movement as my generation was fascinated with - my mother - counterculture movement of the 1920s In other words if you weren't there doing the Charleston you really don't know how to do the Charleston My impression of the anti-war movement and don't make - don't mistake what I'm saying It was terribly important and it made a great - it made an enormous impact on this country I think it had some negative impact one of which was that the first thing Nixon did was get rid of the draft And he created a quote "all volunteer army" which in my mind means that we now have a very right-wing professional military which is too closely tied to the defense industry OK? When you look at 70% of the general officers who retired going to work for a defense contractor that seriously worries me especially when you get into this whole notion of honor and ethics And some general standing up and saying "I'm pitching you to buy an F-35 fighter but oh by the way I wouldn't consult you if I didn't think it was something we needed that was the best in the world because after all I did go to West Point where duty-honor-country means everything." That's bullshit If you're paying a guy $200000 a year to sell airplanes he's working for the $200000 - not for some ethics OK? That said you have to remember that the anti-war movement whether it was the University of Wisconsin or Princeton or Harvard or Kent State - they were a small fraction of the generation Most of these people people like my wife were trying to make a living they're trying to get through school they're trying to get on with their lives Now I have a number of friends of mine who were in the anti-war movement One of my closest friends who I lost contact with and I've never been able to re-connect went to Harvard married a girl whose father was a general in the Army they became - he became very heavily involved in the anti-war movement and it cost him his marriage because when he got his notice he went to Canada and she stayed My partner at a Magazine Services in New York was in Chicago throwing rocks and he was on a rock band And we have a picture that we used to send out to clients which had a picture of me in Vietnam and it has a picture of him in his rock band and it said "Magazine Services We can do it the easy way or the hard way." So the reality is I use- I have - I think a lot of these people in the anti-war movement including Jane Fonda they paid an enormous price with their families and with their friends I sat at dinner one time with a client and there were two people running down - not running the war down but they were sort of discussing the war and finally the more senior president of this ad agency piped up and said "How you know how can you talk this way in front of Angus?" And what I found out later is his son had deserted and gone to Canada and this guy was a veteran So here was a situation where a family had been just torn apart So the anti-war movement - and my feeling about Jane Fonda - everybody always gets upset about Jane is she wrote in her book and I have no reason not to believe her that the moment she sat down at that anti-aircraft gun she knew she'd made a mistake that she was being used Do I think that it changed her views on the war? No - Tom Hayden her husband - very heavily involved in the anti-war movement At Inc Magazine one of my closest friends was Bo [Browingham?] who was one of the leaders of the anti-war movement at Princeton And when Bo and I went to China together everybody said "Boy wait till those two guys get talking." It turns out we - Bo and I have been very very good friends I think Bo's argument and my argument -that people sat on the sidelines and did nothing They took no position and they allowed by the way Richard Nixon to carry that war on for another four and a half years all of which we conveniently forget SY Yeah So what was it like to come back home? What was it like to re-introduce you to- AM It's funny I'm glad you asked that There are two - I'll give you some three things that happened One was I was lucky and that - well I'll tell you the whole trip I got into- I got separated I was still in uniform obviously traveling on boarders And I came down - went down to see my sister in Phoenix from Fort McChord Air Force base up in Washington And I remember an airline stewardess being very solicitous in taking care of me and all that stuff and she was saying something to the effect of you know I said "Geez you don't have to do that you don't have to -" giving me free drinks and all this stuff She said "Believe me they're going to treat you like trash." And I remember on the trip being a layover in Chicago and there was this - I had this feeling by being in uniform that I was - that I had - that I was - there was something wrong with me that I was almost like the plague Now the nice thing was is that when I got home my parents were there with my brothers and my s- all the - the whole family all the signs and all that stuff - "Welcome Home" blah blah blah So I had a very nice welcome home from my family Now my mother and father - my mother is I think I told you was a writer and my father was an art director/business consultant - and my parents were very - my mother was so n- she was so fearful of the military that she wouldn't even come to my graduation at Norwich She didn't come SY Fearful in what way? AM Hmm? SY Fearful in what way? AM She had a brother - she had lost someone in the First World War her brother had fought with the 442nd in Italy in the Second World War I mean she'd seen what the war had done And so when I was graduating and I kind of pretty well knew where I was going and she just said "I can't handle it." She did not want to come to graduation I mean you're looking at my class they were all in uniform everybody was going into the Army She knew what the deal was So we got home and my parents used to have these wonderful dinners My parents had a very formal dining room It's a big house in Chappaqua And so we all sat around the table and I was still in uniform and my mother had built this - she was a fabulous cook and she said "Well tell me what do they all think of Premier Kỳ?" It was at that point - and because my parents were very active pro-political people - and my father didn't like the question because there had been a demonstration in Central Park a couple of months a couple of weeks before he said where literally people were carrying the flag of the country that was trying to kill your son You know literally he was upset about the question and all The way I framed it back to my mother was saying "Look What people don't really quite understand about that is that the average South Vietnamese person doesn't even know who he is." If a local dai uy who's a local Captain - is a thief they like to say "If you're working for the people they might be sympathetic to the government." But it's you know all politics is local whether it's here or there And to realize is what you don't understand is you live in an electronic age where you can worry about what your Congressman in Washington is doing They're worrying about what their local alderman is doing in their town And most Americans didn't quite understand that What I came to find out came to realize as I started to get around the country what was going on was less of the anti-war movement- but the anti-war movement was also morphing into the Black Panther movement SY I got to change batteries but keep talking We still got a little bit of juice AM Do you have some juice in there? SY I got another battery AM Oh you got another battery? Well let's just change your battery SY All right here we go Give me 30 seconds and we're recording again AM OK The other thing that was going on in this country as much as the anti-war movement was beginning to resonate in - throughout the country the civil rights movement had morphed into something more violent and that was the Black Panther movement And one of the - and I remember telling my mom and dad that - because my mother and father I mean we - I got to tell you the other one with my mother too About 20 or 30 days into being home and by this time my sisters and - my brothers and what all they're all gone home back to their own homes but they were - they asked me what changes have you seen? And I said - because I was going into the city every day - I was interviewing for jobs and I said "I smell racial violence." And I said this country is very very close to exploding into - I said there is so much racial tension in this country I could just feel it It was completely different the way it was from what I recall when I left almost two years ago And it was more certainly than what I was feeling in Vietnam Interestingly in Vietnam nobody really - in those situations you shouldn't really be worrying about skin pigment at that point You're worrying about whether you can trust the person on either side of you But that was the first thing that was so - that really struck me was how much tension there was in this country racially Because you asked this racial question about Vietnam - I'm saying it was - it was just as tense here but I don't think people because when you're something around something day in and day out you may not necessarily see it SY Yeah you can't smell it any more AM Yeah The other thing that happened that day coming home is my parents had this you know this large home And I guess to keep my mother busy she went through everything I owned And you got to realize I'd been away at school most of my life and so she'd taken all my school team pictures and stuff like that had them all framed And she had this room done in red white and blue and all this And pennants and all this stuff and I - I went upstairs when my mom and dad said "Well I want you to go and see your room." So we went upstairs to my room my mother was still downstairs My father got into the room with me and I looked around this room and you got to realize what I - the responsibility I'd just had and I looked at her I said who does she think I am? This is not - I'm not Leave It To Beaver And that's what a mother sees her child A mother never really sees her child as an adult I don't think And my father turned to me and said "Your mother put a lot of work in this Live with it for 30 days and then make sure you get yourself out of here." And it was good advice and he was right The other thing that struck me I went to work in the training program at McGraw-Hill And I was work- I was assigned to work on a weekly magazine and I - my job was to basically go call on all the cat-and-dog little classified accounts And it was all terribly disorganized and so I remember them handing me this box full of 3x5 cards and I was supposed to file them by category and then in each category alphabetically And I'm sitting there at my desk saying to myself - now this is what I did become an officer again I said are you kidding me man? I had clerks that did this stuff for me in the Army Yeah you're going from writing letters to people's parents to doing this kind of crap? Well this went on for a while and I - the resentment in me really started to build because there was a lot of other chicken shit jobs that they had me doing And one day I went down if you know New York - do you know New York at all? SY Oh yes I grew up in - AM New York City Charlie Brown's you know Charlie Brown's at Grand Central Station? It was a great saloon in Grand - SY Oh I've walked passed it but yeah AM Anyway I went down to Charlie Brown's one Friday - I went Thursday afternoon for lunch And I went down there with this other guy in the McGraw-Hill training program who was a former Marine officer And I was terribly upset Now he had never been overseas He had just done his time and gotten out And we started drinking and I had more - too much to drink And he finally said "Well you know if you're really pissed off go tell your boss." And that was the worst advice I could have gotten because I did it And I went in and I told my boss that this was a chicken shit assignment and I said I'm out of here And I was seriously at that point - and I had been thinking about actually going back into the service at that point I was so - I thought that what was going on in the real world was so unimportant And what happened was I came in to work the next day terrible hangover and sitting in my boss's office was the Vice President of Marketing for the company and "Come on and sit down." I sat down and he said "I understand we had a little bit of an incident yesterday." And I said yeah and he said "We really don't want to lose you." And I said well and he said "But you've also pissed some people off." And he said "Now this means I got to hide you I've got an assignment in Dallas and I've got an assignment in Chicago Which one do you want?" And I said "I've never been to Dallas." So I went to Dallas I met my wife and the rest is history SY Really? AM Yeah SY And how did you meet her? AM Blind date SY In Dallas? Is she from Dallas? AM South Dakota I met her on September 6th and we were married on December 20th SY That's fast When it works it works AM I was - I think it's fast We've been married almost 45 years SY Yeah? AM Yeah SY Yeah Had you considered staying in the Army? AM Yeah I mean I did and part of the reason I went to Norwich was primarily because I probably thought very seriously about it SY But were you fed up by the end of your tour? AM I think what - I'd thought about this I think probably in some respects doing two tours was a good idea because the first tour got me really ready for the second tour far bett- I was better prepared for my Vietnam tour than 90% of the lieutenants I met because most of these guys you know were doing something other than what they would be doing in Vietnam And I at least got a chance to get some hands-on experience On the back side of that - on the flip side of it was I also stayed too long I was there too long because when I came home I was mentally exhausted SY How did that manifest itself? AM I guess I just didn't want the responsibility any more I didn't want to worry about other people And it's interesting you should say that because when I was - you asked me at lunch about "Oh you resigned from McGraw-Hill and.?" Yeah and what it was why I resigned from McGraw-Hill was I mean there were a lot of reasons I talked about market share and whatnot but when I was managing a sales staff - and I was managing a sales staff of 17 people - behind Business Week I think we were the second or third largest magazine in the company It was a big magazine It was a big deal And if you covered an ad agency and I covered the client - it was what they called split credit on billings and all this stuff and I used to get these absolute chicken shit memos from sales reps worrying about whether they got 10% of the credit or 15% of the credit on a million dollar deal In other words they were so caught up in all of the little minutiae that when I resigned and when I was asked why are you quitting? Well I think Inc is a better opportunity and it's a growing opportunity but I'm also tired of all the bullshit I'm tired of being responsible for whether Johnny so-and-so gets a $500 commission check or whether he gets a $700 commission check on a guy who's making $85000 a year - and this by the way was 30 years ago Why don't you worry about going from $85000 to $105000 rather than worrying about $750? And that was the difference at Inc At Inc. it was you know you made your own - you pack your own parachute and you made your own bonus and interestingly enough financially I made out like a bandit I mean I made more money doing this working for somebody other than McGraw-Hill Yeah I would have gotten a gold watch and they used to give out a neat tie when you worked - had been there for 25 years But hell you can go to Brooks Brothers you can get one of those for 50 bucks SY Right yeah And you don't seem like you were a company man for either the military or McGraw-Hill You didn't want to be a company man AM Well yeah but you also have to respect company Now - I - you know I look at a guy like - Fran Brennan was a - Fran Brennan was the quintessential company guy I don't think there's anybody in the military that I could find that I would respect more than Fran Brennan because Fran Brennan was the kind of guy that led from the front A guy I spoke about a few minutes ago Gill Dorlan you know they handed him the Distinguished Service Cross which right behind the Medal of Honor is the second highest award they give out you know He also I mean he was the youngest Major in his class from West Point He quit too you know he tossed it out but he was a consummate professional You understand what I'm saying? The difference between being a professional and being a career guy SY I do AM You do SY I do understand that AM I know you do I know you do SY Yeah but yeah I think it's an important distinction AM The other thing and interestingly enough one of the things that McGraw-Hill had that it lost - and it lost about the time I was leaving was McGraw-Hill had a very serious mentoring system Albeit these guys started out as ad sales guys there were some very very bright guys At one point McGraw-Hill was made up primarily of Ivy Leaguers I mean you have the - well the McGraw family they were all Princeton people but there were a lot of Dartmouth guys a lot of Yale guys whatnot And it's funny because the guy I worked for in Dallas he was a petroleum engineer and you know I always sat with him He taught me how to really listen and learn about a client's business The guy I worked for in Cleveland the guy who ran the Cleveland office taught me about how to think strategically The guy I worked with in Chicago - I wasn't particularly crazy about him as a human being but he was one of the best public speakers I've ever been around so he really showed me a lot about standup presenting skills And the guy I worked for in New York taught me a lot about the minutiae of working inside of a large corporation And McGraw-Hill was very very good on all these mentoring steps and quite frankly I always felt a responsibility that when I had my own sales staff and I hired people that I treated them and taught them all that I could possibly teach them as sort of payback to what had been invested in me And I think that's gone today I don't think people in your generation - no one cares about anybody but [015526] (inaudible) I worry about me and they don't worry about whether you're making a contribution to somebody's career. SY I think that's true I think that culture is dead AM Well one of the other things that's gone too by the way - when I went through the McGraw-Hill training program and when you read my thing it sounds like I was only in it for 6 months Actually you're a probationary employee I think for 18 months Now that was their formal training program And we used to come back every quarter all the trainees They would recruit 15 trainees a year They would interview maybe 300 people And I was an experiment where they hired five Vietnam veterans and then they hired five guys out of industry and five guys out of grad school And they put you into this class SY Ooo! What was that like? AM Oh it was terrific and I will say the Vietnam guys did better than everybody else We were all much older we weren't older mentally - physically we were older mentally We were far more mature But we all did very very well in our careers SY And was it nice to have four other men who sort of knew what you'd just gone through? AM Well yeah they were all different experience One guy had been an F-105 pilot another guy had been a medic another guy had run Swift boats like John Kerry and another guy had been a navigator on a I think it was on a B-52 So we were all sort of varied experiences of the war None of them really common The guys we hired out of industry one of them is still one of my closest friends Andy [Gandon?] He was a bench chemist and worked for BF Goodrich and they hired him on Modern Plastics magazine And Andy said something very interesting He was up here last year He said "The reason why" he says "I think you did better than most of us is that we learned how to do our jobs and then we just kept doing that same job for 30 years You kept changing the job You kept changing the parameters of the job." SY Yeah you got bored AM Yeah that's right I get bored very easily And so if you don't change - if you can't change the game change the rules SY Yeah So something I asked Bill Bonk and he had some good answers about it that I want to make sure to ask you is so you know Norwich was founded on this idea of the citizen - (repeats herself louder) Norwich was founded on this idea of the citizen-soldier AM Yeah SY Is that something that you relate to? Is that something that - AM Oh absolutely I - and I think it's something this country has lost No that's not fair We haven't lost it We've lost it in the regular Army and the Marines and the Navy and the Air Force And interestingly enough the Air Force the Navy and the Marine Corps were always voluntary services The Army was always subject to draft And by the way so was the Marine Corps During the Vietnam War the Marines actually drafted A lot of people don't know that but they did And they also did in the Second World War I think when we took away the draft we took a piece out of that citizen-soldier equation One of my favorite photographs from World War II are two guys in the Navy And they're both on bunks And one's an officer the other one's an enlisted man The officer is reading a comic book and the enlisted man is reading Tolstoy I don't sense that you have a lot of guys reading Tolstoy who are enlisted any more I think you need - I think that if we had a draft - had we had a draft we would have been very reluctant to invade Iraq. SY So you're saying if a draft works correctly it's a corrective - AM Absolutely SY - to sort of hawkish or cowboy foreign policy AM Absolutely Absolutely SY That's interesting AM Well I mean the reality is is that if all of a sudden - I'm talking about a fair draft I'm not talking about six deferments But if all of a sudden Senator so-and-so's son was at risk or more importantly the son of his largest donor was at risk - my brother said something very interesting to - of a guy who owned our company and he actually had Inc Magazine He also had owned Sail Magazine where my brother worked My brother is a Marine fighter pilot And neither Don nor I are hawks We're both politically are pretty much on the same wavelength And one night they were all hunkered up and they were drinking and the guy who owned the magazine was talking about how he managed to get out of the draft and everybody was laughing at his stories And my brother just said "I'm just curious" and the guy looked at him and said "What are you curious about?" He said "Well somebody had to take your place Do you think he survived?" If we had a true citizen-soldiery that we keep talking about it would have been - it would be based on a fair and equitable draft Now on the other side of it one of the things that people like Ford and Sullivan who had a tremendous influence on it and for whom I have a great respect - he and there's a guy by the name of Vuono and General Meyer- these guys were Chiefs of Staff of the Army When they were put into this situation of creating an all-volunteer army they built a model which depended upon the National Guard Now what you haven't asked is and you wouldn't know to I got called back twice SY Did you really? AM Oh yeah to work with the National Guard And I have to tell you that was a joke and an experience I mean to the point where it was almost insulting how bad they were But I was also in a meeting where - with a battalion of the Louisiana National Guard with the battalion commander - this is 1971 the war is still going on - and I'm quote an "advisory" with several other former officers from Vietnam And this battalion commander announces to the battalion "I know why you're all National Guard You're here to avoid the war in Vietnam." And I think he used the word "illegal" war in Vietnam or "immoral" war And everybody - the guys who'd been in Vietnam we all looked at each other saying what the hell is going on? Now we've gone from that - then I was with the New York National Guard and these guys were a bunch of stockbrokers And you know one guy asked me "Say Lieutenant can I have your Jeep? I need to go in town to call." I'm going wait a second you know We didn't get a chance in Vietnam to say hey listen hold on to the war I got to go make a phone call I got to call my broker I will say the National Guard has done a superb job You know they picked up the slack But yeah I think Norwich has an important role playing that I think unfortunately it may be losing it There's so many of these kids now who are going to Norwich with the idea they're going to make a career of the military I don't think in my class there were that many I think there were oh I think there were probably 12 or 15 guys in my class who wound up staying in the military that spent their whole career in the military. SY Yeah I think that is I think that is different I think there is a new more career (crosstalk inaudible) [020343] - AM We had a lot of colonels in my class both lieutenant colonels and a couple of full colonels I mean let's see Johnny [Otis?] Bill [Bell?] there was one or two others that were full colonels in my class SY So I'm flagging a little bit One last question I think is important because most people don't know about long-term health repercussions of Vietnam Could you talk about that? About the long-term health effects - even though you weren't wounded - the long-term health effects of having survived? AM Well I think that - well I think that yeah I have - I have maybe 40% of my hearing I have arthritis which is directly attributed to Vietnam And I've had two hip replacements I think the other thing that we - we lose sight of the fact you know there's always - in every unit there's always a wise ass no they're dozens of wise asses believe me and they're very smart kids And that's what I always loved about American GIs is they are always very very funny and they're smart They have a language of their own They just - there's a - Hemingway wrote a wonderful book during the Second World War about the language and how the language of the GIs and their humor is just incredible But it's also very black very dark And I remember we had lost a kid and we were waiting to evacuate his remains and this wise ass said something to the effect "Well that cost us another quarter of a million dollars." And I went you know and of course at that point I was you know kind of upset and I said "What do you mean?" And he said "Well look at it this way Lieutenant He's married he had a child and he started going through all the benefits." And he said "By the time we're through"- now this is 1968 "that's going to cost the United States government another quarter of a million dollars." Now fast forward to your 2015 and we look at - now I go to the VA hospitals on a pre- at least a couple of times a year and you walk in and you take a look at these broken up bodies and you realize that every time you send a kid out there and he comes back with a leg missing or an arm missing it's going to cost the United States taxpayers And I hate to put it in those kind of cold-blooded terms but I don't think we even think about those kinds of things By the way I will say that despite all the bad press about the VA I think the VA has done a pretty good job at least here in Maine I also know - I talked to my cardiologist who went to Harvard Medical School and I asked him what he thought of the VA and he said that when he was going to Harvard he used to go over to the VA And he said "You walk down the VA and you would see world-class doctors from Harvard Medical School Boston College Medical School." We're going to be on Friday with some friends of ours whose daughter was a cancer - is now a cancer research specialist All of her training came through the VA So I understand the sort of wonderful political footballs that get tossed out there about the VA and how bad it is or how incompetent it is or what a waste it is But you want to think about our system by comparison to the Russian system Imagine what happened in the Soviet Union when it collapsed in 1990 about the time the millions -I don't mean the hundreds of thousands but the millions of Soviet soldiers that went through the Second World War with what they had to do what do you think they got out of the deal? Or think about the VA system that must be going on in a place like Vietnam? It's not - yeah we have problems but by comparison - SY I think it also depends on who you are when you access the system I interviewed a Norwich alumni who - alum who served in Iraq and Afghanistan and had some head injuries and PTSD And he had a lot of trouble accessing resources because I think the VA is better with broken bones and concrete things than they are with psychological types of injuries He had a hard time getting resources AM Be careful be careful Let me tell you - it's funny you should - let's - that's a good question to ask but before you make that - come to that conclusion think about this Who do you think the hearing people in the world are? SY The best what? AM Hearing SY I don't know AM VA Why? How come? They got more of it Who do you think got the best burn research in the world? SY Right I mean it's a huge organization yeah AM OK in other words I would say the VA is probably doing a better job with PTSD and I don't know than the Defense Department is doing with IEDs The reality is is that and I will - before you leave I'll show you some photographs of what it looks like when an armored personnel carrier hits a 2000-pound bomb SY Actually let's look at those photographs now Maybe we can look at them while we're on tape? AM Here I can put up - put this on you want to leave this one? SY Yeah Let's leave it on because - AM Yeah we'll do this I got it right here SY Yeah Great AM But what I'm saying what I'm saying is that for - what's his name? - our friend Donald Rumsfeld to start talking about well you go to war with the army that you got - now let me see if I can find it That'll make it easier for you to. You know Donald Rumsfeld wants to say we go to war with the army that you got yeah well we had - this is what an armored personnel carrier looks like after it's been hit SY Hmm AM That's a hole in the ground SY Wow where is this? AM This is in the Quế Sơn Valley SY And do you remember the particular hit? AM Thirteen people were on that vehicle SY That's the story you were telling me about the 13 people - AM Thirteen people SY - including the close friend of yours AM Uh no he was killed later on he was killed about oh four or five days later Now there were 13 boys on that But that's my point is that the IED mine problem was there in 1968 and all of a sudden we had to go out and create new vehicles I don't know what they call them now but you know there's a whole new family of vehicles we had to create when we were crea- after going through this kind of nonsense did we think that IEDs and mines were going to go away? SY Yeah I don't know. AM No it's a very effective weapon That happens to be a mine that we dug up That's a small anti-personnel mine Those are Punji sticks SY Yeah we talked about those And what beach is that - do you know? AM Yeah this was taken out west of LZ Baldy and this actually was taken during a what - this became a firefight actually And you can see we just landed infantry And the sand out there was just like it was like flour SY It looks like snow AM It does look like snow And this is the helicopters coming in SY Do you remember that guy? AM Huh? SY Do you remember that guy? AM Yeah that's Sergeant [Pattengill?] That's Sergeant Patty He became a sergeant major terrific guy And that guy became a Catholic priest SY That's the guy who became a priest? AM Yep And that guy became a - went back to college and became a computer programmer He's got a masters degree in information systems and is a software developer has his own software firm And then this is the last day I was in - that's the whole unit lined up SY To say goodbye to you? AM Yep And then we were - this guy became an attorney This fellow right here is a South Vietnamese He actually had been a Vietcong He pulled us out of a minefield and I am awarding him the Bronze Star SY Really? Right here you're awarding him the Bronze Star That's what you're doing right in this picture? AM Yeah And I don't remember that guy And then that's me SY Yeah Same mustache! AM Huh? SY It looked like you with the mustache in the picture AM Yeah SY He has that same mustache AM This is a - SY Let's talk about that painting AM Well the painting - you know the story behind it? It's now in the Vietnam Veterans Museum in Chicago And I had always wanted to do a painting on Vietnam And what I appreciate most about the painting was a couple of things one is I actually went to Chicago and actually saw it hanging in the museum And I have to tell you maybe the biggest trip in the world for any painter is to actually go to a real museum and this is a - this is not a bunch of guys a bunch of old hippies - this is a real museum I mean it's spectacular It was a great facility then it's now even more spectacular So it was a big deal to see it The second thing is that there were two things I wanted to paint I wanted to paint one like this so these guys sort of hanging out You can see there C-ration cans and he's sleeping these two guys are reading a newspaper there's some beer cans one guy is on watch - because 90% 95% of Vietnam was all about boredom And I don't think enough people talk about that It's very very very boring because you're - and then of course the other 5% is stark terror Anyway when I sent this Chicago paint- painting to Chicago I went out to see it I was up on the third floor and one of the curators came up to me She said "Is this your painting?" I said yeah And she said "I want you to know we bring groups in here And the children love this painting This one always gets -" And I said "Really?" I said "How is that? Why is that?" And she said "Because all the other ones are violent and this one isn't." The other painting I wanted to do and I started it and I never finished it is you can see all these rice paddies in these dikes People were - these were all built by hand OK they were all - you've seen pictures of rice paddy docks? And it always - and you can see what happens when you run your tread over the dikes is it - actually it smashes those And I wanted to do a painting of the track going through the rice paddies and the malt spilling out and losing their water and all that stuff And I was going to call the thing "Collateral Damage" because we don't really think about how much damage we created just in the - to their - to the local agrarian environment SY Yeah So why didn't you finish it? Did you get stuck? AM Yeah I mean a lot of times you don't finish paintings I mean sometimes I work - I mean this one if I had to do it again I'd do it again And I - SY Was there - you - so what about this image felt so important to you? Because you usually paint from photographs and this isn't from a photograph AM No This is from memory SY So you remember this moment? Or is it a combination? AM Not particularly I created a moment I created a moment and of course I know the vehicle well enough that I can paint the vehicle in my sleep SY Yeah Are there other moments in Vietnam - images - that you want to put on the canvas? AM Yeah there is one I don't think I've got a photo- I used to have a photograph of it And I - whenever I thought about Vietnam it was - I can't find it - that we were up on a top of a hill and I remember staring down - in fact we were on top of that hill right there And I was staring down when I took the photograph a machine gun And I remember just - I remember the image of staring down that machine gun and it just has always stayed with me SY And what was on the other side? What did you see? AM Hmm? SY What did you see? You're staring through a machine gun? AM Well I was just staring behind a machine gun And I remember taking a photograph of it I'm just looking at an open field but that image just somehow always resonated with me SY Is it the contrast of sort of the beautiful open field and looking down a machine gun? AM Perhaps I mean I - you know it's tough to read what goes through your mind I mean you know it's funny I talked about coming - going to Vietnam - coming to V-coming home Going to Vietnam was interesting too because most of the guys they all like Bill Bonk and people like that they all would go to McChord Air Force base and they would get on a transport and they'd fly you know there would be a bus that would pick them up at I guess they were going to Tân Sơn Nhất? And you know they were all you know so they just. Not me I had to go to Japan see I was coming out of Japan So I went and picked up my orders and I was on Air Vietnam not on military flight I was just on a bigger civilian flight The government paid for it And I remember I get on this airplane and it was all these businessmen and they were all in their blue you know blue bla- you know blue pin-striped grey flannel suits or whatever they wore They all looked like a bunch of commuters going some place and here I am in uniform and I'm going to war SY Right you felt like you were - AM And we're all going to the same place SY You felt like you were in Metro North but instead you were - AM Yeah I mean I felt like I was on a commuter line and then I remember we landed We didn't land at Tân Sơn we landed at Saigon Airport which was whatever the big airport was We didn't land at a military airport We landed at a civilian airport which is like you know landing at Westchester County Airport So I get out and it was funny because all these guys you know scurry to get out and I said "I'm going to be here for a year So I'm just going to take my time." And I remember clearing the hatch and walking across the runway and thinking "Well I haven't been shot yet So far so good." And then there was a reception desk for it just said "incoming military personnel" and so I walked over and I handed the guy my orders And he said "Well we'll take you over to Long Bình" and - which is the replacement center And I said fine So they put me on this bus with a couple of other guys and I noticed that there was wire on all the windows and I realized that's so that they don't throw hand grenades into the bus - these people are serious And of course then I got over to Long Bình and I remember going into the officers' club and sitting next to a guy who had gone to Harvard It turned out he'd gone to Harvard He was going home And I said "Really?" He said "Yeah." And he said "Where you going?" I said "Oh I'm going up north." And he said "Well how do you feel?" And I said "Well I think I can handle most of it but God I hate snakes I really hate snakes." The guy said "Don't worry about it." He says "I've been here a year I haven't seen a snake I've been in the bush most of the year." He said "I have not seen a stinking snake." I'm going to tell you I saw every snake this guy never saw I must have seen dozens of snakes - God I hate them I really hate snakes (laughs) OK really it's almost like - what was that thing? Indiana Jones and all he hated is snakes live sa- (laughs) SY Here are your snakes yeah yeah AM But - and so it was that - my welcome to Vietnam was kind of you know it was really like landing in a commuter flight and it was you know going into war SY How surreal AM So it was kind of interesting SY It was a very surreal moment Whew! AM Anything else? SY I'm losing steam AM All right SY I got a drive ahead of me AM OK SY Do you have any last thoughts? This was wonderful AM No I you know I think - don't mistake what you might perceive as my liberal - being fairly liberal as a criticism of the job I think people did I think the kids who certainly in the military it's very very tough job And I - the experience has been important to me because I know I have a - who knows but I have an idea of how difficult their job is I don't have any idea how difficult the job is today but I sense how difficult the job is and I have nothing more but the utmost respect for them It's a very very tough challenging life By the way one of the best honors that I've gotten is there was a book - I think I've told - maybe I didn't tell you There's a book written about our unit and my name came up a couple of times And about three years ago four years ago the unit had morphed up to a full squadron full battalion and they were going to Iraq And so they called me and asked me if I would come out and speak to their young officers about the pressure of leading as a junior officer And I have to tell you that was a tremendous honor to be asked to - I flew to Alaska and I visited with these guys And then they asked me to stay that Saturday night to speak to the entire group at their regimental mess And I started talking about how important that unit was to me personally and quite frankly how much I wish I was going with them I remember when the first Iraq war broke out and when those kids crossed that burn that - breaking into Kuwait and I'm not a drinker I mean I did when I was younger but I don't drink normally I have a glass of wine at night I guess so I guess I am a drinker now But then I really just did not drink at all And I remember my wife was not home and they were describing them going through that burn and I went over and opened a bottle of wine and drank the whole bottle of wine because I had this sense of understanding - or at least I think I understood what they were going to be going through And I just - it just - I wanted to be numb I didn't want to imagine what these poor kids were going to go through And it's how I feel today I'm so terrified about this whole thing with Iran getting - spinning out of control And not because it makes any sense but for political expedience It's nuts It really is I don't know Any other questions? SY I don't think so I don't think so When you say - when you talk about wanting to go to war with them - I guess I do have another question - is it because you feel like you want to be supporting them through what they're going to struggle through? Is it because you miss the camaraderie? Is it because you miss that sense of purpose? Is it because you feel a sense of duty? What is it exactly? AM Oh I think it's a combination of all of that You know these were the best friends I ever had I mean I - it's funny my father said to me when I gra- when I went to Norwich he said that these would be the best friends you'll ever have And in part he's cor-he was right But it's interesting it took me four years to form a bond that it took me only a year to form with a lot of these kids in Vietnam I'll also say something else about Norwich which I think is important to be said And I don't think having not gone to Norwich you can't understand this and I'm not even sure the civilian students at Norwich can understand it My older brother went to Georgetown and when I moved back to New England he lived in Marblehead And so I would get him out to a hockey game or a Norwich hockey game or what have you And then at one point I took him up to Norwich - and he's a very bright I mean very very smart guy And I remember him you know looking around at Norwich and finally sort of saying he said "You know I've always sort of envied the relationship you had with both the school and with your classmates." He said "So much so that I finally went back to Georgetown for my class reunion and realized how much I hated the place." You - I don't think kids understand how close the relationships are Does that come through still? SY Yes that does come through still Without a doubt that comes through still. AM Yeah and I think you see this by the way at the service academies and that's the only place - you may see it at a small Catholic school like you know where the Jesuits are running it you know like a place like - is it Holy Cross? SY It is Holy Cross AM Is it Holy Cross Jesuit? SY Holy Cross Jesuit yeah AM But if you go to a Jesuit school perhaps you might see it But certainly at Annapolis and Norwich VMI - they have this same - I mean I can remember my brother's best friend in the Marine Corps was a VMI guy When he heard I went to Norwich "How come he's not going to VMI?" "Well you know" my brother said "they're all the same quite frankly." (laughs) So OK? Anything else? SY I think we've covered you know most of the known universe in this interview We talked about a lot AM Are we off now? SY Let me turn - END OF AUDIO FILE

Transcript of an oral history interview with Rollin Reiter, conducted by Jennifer Payne on 5 October 2013, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. Rollin S. Reiter graduated from Norwich University in 1950 and earned earned his master's in business administration from the Harvard Business School in 1952. In his interview, he discusses his experiences running his family's business, Reiter Dairy, as well as his military service in the Korean War and with the Army Reserve and Coast Guard Auxiliary. ; 1 Rollin Reiter, NU '50, Oral History Interview October 5, 2013 Sullivan Museum and History Center Interviewed by Jennifer Payne JENNIFER PAYNE: This is Jennifer Payne with the Norwich Voices Oral History Project. Today's date is October 5th, 2013 and I am here with Rollin—Did I say it right? ROLLIN REITER: Um-hm. JP: Good. Reiter, Class of '50. So, Mr. Reiter, thank you for being here so early this morning. RR: Okay. JP: Where are you from? RR: Born in Akron, Ohio and we live in Canton, Ohio, except eight months a years, we're in Florida. We're Florida residents now in Key Largo, Florida. JP: Nice area. RR: That's where we live. JP: And your age is? RR: I'm eighty-five. JP: Eighty five. And you attended Norwich in 19— RR: Yeah. I came here in 1946 out of high school, graduated high school at Copley, Ohio and, on the farm, and came to Norwich. I didn't know anybody here—know anything about it, but was right after the War. The War was really a defining event in my life and most people of this age. And I got a postcard in the mail that talked about Norwich University. I admired uniforms and I missed, just missed the military. I was—had my physical and was ready to go but then the bomb dropped and everything was postponed. So, I did come to—applied to Norwich and was accepted and came here. My mom and dad brought me up, dropped me off and that was it. There was another student here from Akron area named Crile. I think it was Gary Crile. In Cabot Hall, where we lived, in the basement, there were two Ohio people. So, it wasn't unusual for Ohio students to be here, but that's how I got here was very, very simple. JP: When you were—when you were here, what activities did you do? RR: I was company commander, eventually, of Troop B and I was president of SAE when they had fraternities then. And I was Russ Todd's roommate and the two of us had a lot 2 of fun. Life at Norwich for us was really interesting and fun. And then, I had very good friends here, as most people do that come to Norwich. You develop some great friendships. It was Russ Todd and Jim Ricker and the others in Troop B and SAE. Other than that, I didn't—I wasn't an athlete or any. I did ski a little bit across the hill, across the road. JP: That's great. RR: Yeah. JP: What was it like with Russ Todd as a roommate? Did you guys get in—did you do many tours? RR: I never walked a tour, never walked a tour. Never exceeded ten demerits apparently. I'm just sort of a conformist. I like the military and I like military discipline so I got along okay. Russ was—he's more aggressive. He's a different kind of guy but the two of us hit is off really well. JP: Did you have a nickname? RR: Yeah. I had a couple. My middle initial is Steese and a couple people, like Russ, used to call me Steese. And then, because of my adventures on the range at Fort Meade when we went for our summer training, I was pretty good and some of them called me Alvin. JP: Alvin? RR: For Alvin Yorke, you know? "Oh, Alvin!" JP: Oh, Alvin! RR: Yeah. JP: What was Fort Meade like? RR: That was fun. That was our junior year and we all went to Fort Meade and then we were shipped—we took buses down to A. P. Hill for tank firing because there's no range at at Meade. So we went to A. P. Hill and that was fun. We lived in tents down there for the training and the weekend off, the three of us, Ricker, Todd, and myself went down to Williamsburg and travelled that area and had a lot of fun. Russ had a car so that was an advantage. JP: What kind of car was it? RR: It was a '37 Ford. Yeah. JP: Fun.3 RR: Is that right? Yeah. That's right. Yeah. JP: How big were the tents? RR: Oh, they were two or three man, I think, down there. Most rain I've ever seen in my life occurred at A. P. Hill while we were there. JP: Really? RR: Um-hm. JP: Did you guys get washed out? RR: That's—the Boy Scouts use A. P. Hill even. That's a great place for outdoor gatherings and maneuvers and things and large groups of people. JP: So when you left Norwich, what did you do? RR: Let's see. I graduated in June and Russ took his regular commission. I was offered a regular commission. Didn't take it. I took my reserve commission and went back to Akron and worked at the company dairy—at the dairy company, milk and ice cream processing. Applied at Harvard Business School and was accepted and went to Harvard Business School that fall and graduated there in 1952. It's a two year course, MBA. That was very interesting. That was a whole other life at Harvard Business School. That was—having been at Norwich, Harvard Business School was clear the other opposite. It was Ivy League and my roommate was from Yale. He taught me what it was like to be an Ivy Leaguer. We had a lot of fun. He and I had a lot of fun like Russ and I had and we probably had more fun than we really should have but we passed. That was the business school. I was in the Reserve, the Army Reserves, and attended Reserve meetings, out at Boston Army Base during that period. Every week, I would show up and the guys in the unit would say, "You still here? You should be in Korea. How come you're still here?" That's when Korea was on. Everybody was excited about Korea. I attended there and the summer camp there was at Fort Drum, New York. Went to that. Then, I went back to Ohio after business school. Worked at the dairy. Because I had no obligation coming out of Norwich with a commission, like they do, later they had two year, one year, six year. I had no obligation, so I was in the draft. I was ready to be drafted even though I had a commission. So, the only way I could avoid going in as a private was to volunteer. I volunteered for active duty as a reservist and took a three year active duty stint. That was kind of a funny thing that you could be drafted and yet you had a commission and were ready to serve at any time you were really asked to, as an officer, reserve officer. I liked the Army. It was fun. I had—when I was at Norwich, in my senior year, somebody came up from somewhere to talk to us about the Counter Intelligence Corps and going in to Intelligence and that we could go down to Dartmouth and take a lesson or have a lecture or something 4 down there on the Counter Intelligence Corps. I went and I applied. When I went on active duty, I was sent to Fort Holabird in Maryland for the Counter Intelligence school. That had to do with security and all those sorts of things. And then, before you could go overseas, you had to go through your basic armor or arm course which would be armor and I was sent to Fort Knox for the Basic Officer's Armor Course Number One. That was their first one of a certain type of basic course from for armored officers. Because I'd been in about six months, I was the senior guy in the class and all the Class of '51 from Norwich, part of that time—he happened to be aide to General, not Taylor, but anyway, he was an aide to a general there. Shorty somebody. Yeah. Russ and I were, again, together and all these guys from Norwich and I had a car and we had a good time. Then, while we were there, the truce was declared in Korea. That was nice to hear. I was out of there in October and was shipped to Seoul, Korea. Well, to Tokyo, and then assigned to the 308 CIC in Seoul, Korea. I went over there for a year. That was interesting work. Was Counter Intelligence Corps attached to the Eighth Army Forward in Seoul and I worked with the Intelligence people at G3, so Eighth Army there. We had the detachments up on the line at all the online divisions. Then, they had an offer. If you would agree to stay in the Far East for another year, you could transfer back to Japan. So, I did that. After a year in Korea, transferred to Japan. Spent a year there with the 441 st CIC which was out of Tokyo. We were located right downtown in the former Kanpai Thai headquarters along the moat. This place we had was where a couple of Jimmy Doolittle flyers were executed in the garden there. It was a pretty little place. But that's where some of his flyers that had been shot down or captured were imprisoned and killed there in that garden. Then, that tour was up. In '56, I came back to San Francisco on E.D. Patrick Troop Ship. We flew over but we came back on a troop ship. It was full of Japanese and Korean war brides mostly. JP: Really? RR: Just full of them and that was one of the things after the truce that the CIC did a lot of was clear these people. They had to have clearances. When they married a Japanese or Korean, they had—those brides had to be cleared before they could come back to the great PX, like they called it. We had a troop full of war brides and so forth. Up in the prow of the ship, we had a lot of army prisoners, criminal types that were being shipped back to the states. Not war prisoners but criminal prisoners, including one guy had butchered his chef, his mess sergeant or something like that. We, the three of us, officers were coming back in a state room, probably the only three in the whole boat that didn't get sick all the time. It was eleven days in rough weather in December. We were supposedly in charge of these prisoners up in the prow of the ship. It got out of hand. We didn't know anything about guarding prisoners and all like that. Halfway over, we had to call on the Marine detachment that was on board and they took over the prisoners and straightened things out. I'll never forget that. That was fun. We never got above the deck, up on the deck, the whole eleven days. It was so rough. JP: What happened?5 RR: Everything slid off all the tables and it was a mess. The luggage in our state room—we had—three of us were in a little state room. The luggage would keep going back and forth across the floor all the time. Anyway, that was the trip back to Oakland and it was a great experience. I like the Army a lot. I stayed in the Reserve in Akron, was in a Reserve, military intelligence unit in Akron. Taught there in the local command and general staff school. Then, it came time to go to Fort Leavenworth, to command and general staff school and so forth. It was becoming difficult because the business that I was in—I was running the business now myself. It was hard for me to get away as much as was required. Unfortunately, I made the decision to retire from the Reserve. With eighteen years, I retired as a major from the Army Reserve. That's where that stands. I'm retired. That went on and I was very deeply involved in the milk and ice cream processing business in Ohio. We bought—I bought another plant in Springfield, Ohio and we bought branches all around the state. We grew like crazy. We were doing, oh, maybe a hundred million dollars worth of sales when, toward the end there—when I sold the business in 1986 to Dean Foods in Chicago. Then, I went to work for Dean Foods in Chicago. Meanwhile, we had built a really nice business in Ohio. We had some stores. We had a little adventure into the restaurant food business distribution. It was a good—we had a bout five hundred employees at the top. It had grown quite a bit. It was an interesting dairy for Dean Foods to acquire. I went to Franklin Park, the Dean headquarters, and I was responsible for about twenty dairies, mostly in Texas and the South and Miami and Athens, Tennessee and so forth. I had almost three billion dollars worth of sales under me there. I did a lot of travelling. But I was there for a short period because the understanding was, at Dean, when you're 65, you retire. So, on my sixty-fifth—near my sixty-fifth birthday, I was allowed to finish out the fiscal year, walked out, and that was it. That was a great experience because I was there with no obligation beyond doing what I'd been brought in to do. I wasn't concerned about my future or anything like most of the people in the company. I was sort of a free spirit. I enjoyed that a lot. Dean was a great company to work for. They have since sold out. They have been bought by a company in Dallas. It's still called Dean and it's still on the New York Stock Exchange and so forth. That was basically my business experience. I retired and we moved straight to Florida to a place called the Ocean Reef Club in Key Largo, Florida. We knew of that because my sister had married a fellow that had property there and was important in the Ocean Reef Club functioning and so forth. We used to visit them. After a few years, they said, "That's it. If you're going to keep coming down here, you've got to get a place." That was good advice. We should have gotten several places. That was 1993, I think. We moved to Ocean Reef, bought a house, became Florida residents. We spend eight months down there and four months back in Ohio, where we kept our home, which is really a nice place too because it's on a golf course and very green. It's stood empty the whole time we were in Chicago. So, that's where we are today. We're living at Ocean Reef Club in Key Largo, Florida. It's sort of a development but there's, around it, there's nothing but state and federal parks. It's not spreading out a lot. You can't go down the road and buy something cheaper like you can up, further up in the state. I became active there with the Coast Guard Auxiliary. I guess I have a thing about uniforms. We joined. My wife and I joined the Coast Guard Auxiliary. This December, we will have been in that for twenty years. I wound up commander of 6 a— the Keys, the units in the Keys, from Key Largo on down to Key West. I had five units and about four hundred volunteers in that, that division. I was the division commander. But that, of course, was all volunteer work. It was very close with the Coast Guard. It was very interesting. They—I was in on their meetings at Key West with Sector Key West. They trained with us and we trained with them. Our people even sat and ran their radio communication sections at their Coast Guard stations. It was really an interesting relationship that we had with the Coast Guard. That was twenty years of that kind of activity too. JP: All those hurricanes! RR: Yeah. I put in eighteen years with the Army Reserve and twenty with the Coast Guard. I never got any retirement because I didn't quite make it the last two years. That's what I've been doing down there, playing some golf. My wife plays tennis and golf. We belong to the local racket club. That really is our life there. They have a unique unit called OR Cat, Ocean Reef Cat. It has a, we have three hundred feral cats on the property, running around. JP: Three hundred? RR: Three hundred. There used to be more but there's three hundred. They're all neutered and spayed. There's eighty feeding stations that are serviced every day for these cats. You see them. You go down the street at Ocean Reef and you see OR Cats, walking around or hanging around the feeding station or fighting off the raccoons who also eat in the feeding station. We build a really nice room or a building to service these cats. It's a beautiful, air-conditioned building with lots of couches and every cat tree you've ever seen or heard of. There's about a hundred cats in there who can't quite make it on their own outside. We have a veterinarian. We have a groomer and five or six veterinary assistants, running this installation with these cats in there. It's like the Green Briar for cats. It's wonderful! You go in there and these cats come from all directions and climb all over you because a lot of them were probably dropped off. When somebody that mows the lawn, or paints or something has a cat they don't want, they come into Ocean Reef to work. They just drop it off and they know OR Cat will grab it and take care of it. So, there's these wonderful cats and we adopted two of them. They're part of our family. When we go to Florida, there's always the four of us. Dory and I in the front and the two cats sitting in the back, sleeping or walking around or sitting beside us on the armrest. They sort of determine how we do things. We smuggle them into motels where we're not supposed to. Dory won't stay in any place that takes pets. She wouldn't want to stay there. We smuggle our two in in a piece of luggage that looks like a nice suitcase. That's one of our activities down there. We had a boat but we sold that. We're on the water. We have a fifty foot dock. I let my neighbor use it because he's got a seventy-two foot boat and a thirty foot boat. The deal is he can use our dock but he must keep us in fish, all the fish we can eat, when he's always bringing us fresh fish when he goes out. That's the deal there.7 JP: The cats must like that too. RR: Huh? JP: The cats must like that too. RR: Yeah. Yeah. They like that. They're not allowed to go outside. That's the deal when you adopt a cat. You sign that you will not—they can't—they've got to stay in the house. They're all spayed and neutered and well-behaved. JP: That's wonderful. RR: Yeah. They spend their time chasing lizards around the pool. We have a nice pool that's all screened in. There's these lizards that get in the hole somehow. The cats chase them all day and have fun with them. JP: Catch their tails and— RR: Yeah. Yeah. They take their tails off and then they play with them, you know. They never actually kill them. We have to do that. Last—two years ago, they discovered two snakes in our house. They weren't big ones but we knew by their activity that there was something under that chair. We had a little—what they call a corn snake. The kitties discovered that and a week later was another one. You never know down there. It's a funny area for animals and things. Right now, we have a big problem with invasive species of animals in Florida, especially Burmese pythons. Oh. They're taking over the Everglades. They really have. You used to be able to go into the Everglades and see pretty birds and animals and alligators and baby alligators. Now, the pythons have just about cleaned all that out. They claim there may be a hundred thousand pythons in the Everglades. They found they've really acclimated to the Everglades. They're full of pythons now. It's a shame. They've tried to kill them or hunt them out or put bounties on them but it hasn't been very successful. We have those and we have iguanas. They're starting to spread over the area and a couple of other invasive species. It's interesting from a wildlife standpoint. They aren't in Ocean Reef yet but, well there was one python found in Ocean Reef, a big one. They get up to fifteen feet or so. They're big. JP: That's a big snake. RR: Um-hm. Yeah. That's where I am right now. JP: Wow. This business that you sold, your family dairy, this was called? RR: Reiter Dairy. JP: Reiter Dairy and—8 RR: Yeah. My grandfather had started it way back in the Depression. I used to go to work with my dad there back in the thirties. That developed. They were in the butter business and got into the bottled milk business. It was never really very big. It was home delivery in those days. That sort of fizzled out. Then, we became really big in trailer load of deliveries of milk to supermarkets, big stuff, all over the state of Ohio and a lot of private label milk in other people's names, you know, for a supermarket. Then, we got in the ice cream business. We made about five million gallons of ice cream a year, which is not a big operation but it was—it was well-equipped and a good product. We covered most of Ohio out of there. That—they have since moved most of our Akron operations to the plant I bought in Springfield, Ohio. It's still Reiter Dairy down there in a pretty big way. But I haven't been down there to look at that since they've expanded it. In back of all this, I think the basic foundation that was laid, that I achieved at Norwich University was very important in all of this, maybe more so than my MBA training at Harvard. Like Sevie said the other night, there's a secret ingredient here at Norwich University, or a special ingredient that provides, imbues the graduates with a leadership ability through a discipline achieved by military-type life. I think that's a unique thing that is so valuable to Norwich graduates. It's a unique way of life here that they never forget. It just molds the way they approach life with discipline, discipline learned through the military culture. I didn't come here to be a professional military man and I was—I was attracted by the concept of the citizen soldier. I wanted to be able to be a soldier if I was needed and when I was needed but I didn't want to be a professional soldier as opposed to Russ Todd, who went on to be a major general and a division commander. That was—it was so important, I think. Norwich was little when we came here in '46, it was—compare today— today, it was nothing. It was really pretty rough around the edges and the veterans were coming back during that period. We were, for a while, kind of mixed in with the veterans. Then the class, my class, was one of the first really Cadet Corps classes after the War. The veterans, if they were going to be there, had to be in the Cadet Corps, for the most part. That was important for that to happen, I think. They've dropped the fraternities. I don't think the fraternities were very complimentary to the military way of life. There was always a little underlying conflict there, your interests and your loyalties. They did do away with fraternities which I think was a good move. General Harmon did that. That kind of life was very important and I had some great friends. Some of whom have passed on, you know, already. Not too many of us left in our class. We've been treated real nice as old guard. I mean, they—we've been introduced. It's been a—they've taken good care of their old-timers. Yeah. Do you have other questions? JP: I would like to ask, what did advice would you give a rook on how to survive and thrive? RR: Yeah. Yeah. That was one of the questions that you asked me and that's an important question, especially today. I just read a book by Tom Friedlander. He wrote "The Earth is Flat" concept about how we're part of the world economy, which we are. A young man going out into the world today has got a real serious decision to make as to how he's going to approach his job, what he's going to do to sustain his job and not be part of the, part of the economy that doesn't make it. I'd say that to remain in their—retain their integrity and retain their interest in doing a little more than is required in your job and looking for ways to do jobs better. It's the givers who are going to succeed, not the 9 takers. I think it's important for them, going into whatever they do, to be a part for progress and for improvement in order for them to survive. To be one of the survivors, they've got to be one of the people that knows how to improve things and do things in a better way even though it may be threatening, eventually, to their own job but people that can contribute in some way with innovation is what going to be important. Of course, the peak of that would be an entrepreneur that knows how to start his own business and has that determination. That is really great too, I think. It's going to be a tough world out there, a different kind of world, but I think Norwich has prepared them for that in a much better way than a lot of other civilian universities or concepts, especially some of the academic paths that they could choose that—it's got to be pertinent, these days, if they're going to survive and be successful. I think they learn that here. I think that the sciences are going to be extremely important. Be it engineering and that sort of thing, would be a great field to follow. I was reading somewhere, I think it was Harvard Business School, about some of their graduates and where they were going. Some of the more successful have done things like join railroads, Union Pacific or something like that, positive type jobs that have room for innovation and improvement in the economy. JP: Is there anything else you'd like to add? RR: Well, I've been really lucky. I really have. Health has been, I've had some health problems but they've all been fixable. I have two new knees. I had a hip repair. I broke this knee a couple years ago on a rug, slipped on a rug and the doctor in Key Largo said it was the worst break he ever fixed. It was right where the artificial knee is. He put in a steel plate and a cadaver bone and seventeen screws and I've got a, he gave me a copy of the X-ray. It's suitable for framing. I mean, it's really neat. All these screws and wires are in there. He said he couldn't believe it when I got up and walked across the room. He said, "I didn't think you would ever walk on that leg again." JP: You're moving it like nothing's wrong with it. RR: Yeah. As I said, everything that has happened to me, I broke my arm. I broke my shoulder. They've all been fixable. Go to the garage and get it repaired. It's nothing internal that's eating away at you, at least, yet. So, I've been really lucky in that respect. My wife has been so good to put up with nursing me and pushing me around in a wheelchair or whatever has to be done. We've had a great marriage. We have two sons. One's at Arizona State. He's a vice president of Arizona State and his wife is also a vice president in development for their new school of sustainability, whatever that is. Sustainability is a big deal down there. She's set up schools in Amsterdam and Hong Kong and everything with this sustainability concept. The other one, my other son, younger son, is in Chicago at the McCormick Estate, which is called Cantigny. He's in charge of publications and speech writing and all that kind of thing at Cantigny. Cantigny's about a four hundred acre property where Colonel McCormick lived. He was one of the founders of the Chicago Tribune. Colonel McCormick was in the first division, the big red one, in the First World War, an artillery officer. The first battle they fought in France was at a town called Cantigny. So, his home in Chicago was 10 called Cantigny. There's this beautiful estate home, big mansion, home and then the property. He put a museum dedicated to the First Infantry Division on that property. It is first class. It is a beautiful museum. The First Division has meetings there sometimes. Outside, around the museum is a copy of just about every tank that the United States has ever used. They're sitting there, in the grass. Kids can climb all over them. There's an Easy Eight and all kinds of tanks, modern ones and really old ones, sitting around the museum. There's beautiful gardens. There's two eighteen hole golf courses, which are first class courses. It's all open to the public. They've had ten thousand scouts there for a Scout-A-Rama and all kinds of things and weddings. That's where he is. He loves it there, close to his home in the Glen Ellyn area. It's in Wheaton, Illinois is where Cantigny is. Anybody in the Chicago area should visit there. They'll never forget it. That's where they are. I have four grandchildren, two in each place. One of them just got his—in Arizona—one just got his master's in environmental engineering from Stanford. The other is in a discipline, a school for entrepreneurs at Arizona State, in an honors type course, doing really well. That's what they're all doing. I can't think of any other highlights to talk to you about. At Norwich, we did a lot of pranks. We probably got away with much more than we should have, Russ and I. We really did. JP: Care to talk about any of those? RR: We hid behind our authority and that was— that's not really fair. That's not nice. I remember we would take a cigarette and put it, we had M80s, a lot of M80s from having been at summer camp. We had put an M80 and a cigarette, light it, take it down the hall and put it underneath the hall door. The fire door's at the end of the hall. Then, go back in the room. Pretty soon, it be just, "Boom!" You'd dash out into the hall, "Who did that?" And get everybody all excited. Russ told about—I don't remember—when we went around at the summer camp and collected all the guidons from the various units over there with the, telling them they were needed for a wedding that was going to be held. We got away with everybody's guidon and brought them home, I guess. We did a lot of stuff like that. I was surprised. I remember when this time of year, we always had a jug of cider hanging out the window on a string. I mean, that was how you keep it cool. We always had ours hanging up. I didn't see any hanging under the barrel. I think they've straightened that out. They don't allow stuff like that anymore. JP: I've heard about those jugs. RR: Yeah. JP: You'd have a glass jug. RR: Yeah, or a plastic, milk-type jug full of cider, hanging out the window. JP: To keep it cold. RR: Yeah.11 JP: And it would ferment because it wasn't pasteurized. RR: It might. Yeah. It might. But we didn't—there wasn't any drinking problem. I don't even remember a smoking problem. Maybe there was, but I don't remember that. A lot of the things they worry about today, we didn't have those problems that we knew of. Yeah. I remember when we were rooks and the first year, in '46, and once in a while, things would get out of hand. Discipline would break down. The ultimate threat was, "If you guys don't straighten out, we'll call Jackman. Jackman would send the veterans down and straighten you guys out." They did. There were a couple veterans that were really tough and they'd come in and crack down. It was always cracking down. They'd get us out in the hall at night and dress us down and straighten us out and then go back to Jackman. Those were tough days. Discipline wasn't like it should be, like it is now. We did have horses. We had forty horses. RR: Oh, you did. JP: Yeah, my freshman year and the old, grisly cavalry sergeants to go with them. They were really old cavalry guys. The officers brought their own polo ponies with them. Some of the ROTC instructor officers had their polo ponies here. They'd play polo. Then, sophomore year, I think they took all those horses out to Fort Leavenworth or somewhere. Auctioned them off or did something. That was all gone. All the horses were gone and they brought in little tanks. I forget the name of those small tanks, Sheridan Tanks. From then on, it was tanks. The horses were fun. Some guys were better at that than others. They'd take us out there and we'd go up and down those sand hills where the National Guard thing is up here now. We'd go down those hills on our horses. JP: That's pretty hard. RR: Everybody had boots and jodhpurs. It was great. That was more the old cavalry. JP: Well, you turned out all right. RR: Yeah. I had a horse at home in Ohio. When I was at Fort Knox, I chummed around with the guys at the stables and I bought a horse down there. They helped me build a trailer and I trailed the horse home, when I was done at Fort Knox. JP: What kind of horse was it? RR: It was just a riding horse. There's lots of horses down there around Fort Knox so it wasn't hard to find one. The guys at the stables I think helped me find a horse. Meanwhile, I had gone into Louisville and bought a truck. I must have been loaded with money because I paid cash for a nice, brand new Ford pickup. That's what I trailed the horse back home with. That was fun. That's about it. JP: Okay. 12 RR: I thought you might be interested in. JP: Thank you very much for your time. RR: Oh. You're welcome. JP: Really appreciate it. RR: Okay. Track 1 ends. Track 2 begins. JP: We're back with Mr. Reiter, talking about the board of trustees. RR: Yeah. JP: Tell me about the board of trustees. RR: Addendum. When Russ came back from Europe and accepted the presidency of Norwich University. That was really an important thing. He called me and asked me if I would be on the board of trustees, which I agreed to do. I forget who the chairman was. Phil Marsilius was chairman. I was on the board for a while and then Phil resigned, retired from the board chairmanship. I became the chairman of the board of trustees for, I think, about fifteen years. JP: When was this? RR: I don't know. It was in the seventies. JP: We can check after. RR: During Russ's period of the presidency, he's the twenty second president. Twenty second or twenty third, I forget. Twenty second, I think. That was a trying time. Russ had some—was difficult to—for him, in some ways, to adjust from the military discipline for getting things done to the academic way of getting things done where everything has to be staffed around a lot and researched. Russ was used to issuing an order and it didn't always work that way. But things worked out for the better. Charlie Adamson then took over as chairman when I left that job. The biggest thing we did, I think, was search for a new president and get Rich Schneider on board. That was a big job. The board worked really hard on that. I was involved but I had people on the board that were very good at doing that search. That turned out great. I remember that, interviewing Rich and others and so forth. That was a good move and it's turned out to be a really great move. Rich has done a marvelous job. He's brought the university into a more modern time. You can see it when you walk around. It's just amazing what's been done as a result. But that was interesting work on the board. There were a lot of great people on that board. I don't 13 think there's very many of them still on there that I recognize but it's been onward and upward and hugely successful, really great. End of addendum. JP: End of addendum. Thank you.

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Importers and Jobbers of «IDRUGS,I» Nos. 16 and 18 W. German Street, BALTIMORE, Offer to the trade their large and well-selected stock of Make a specialty to have on hand everything required by Pharmacists. A complete stock can at any time be selected or wants supplied. &•&■ ALONZO L. THOMSEN,^ RACK, WINDER SHARP AND LEADENHALL STS., P. O. Box 557, Baltimore, Md. I beg to call to the attention ot the Trade that I have re-cently added to my plant a complete set ol Drug Milling Ma-chinery of the most Improved pattern. GEQirft#SP-ANGLM, )(^rrJLZr3 No. 127 Chambersburg St., GETTYSBURG, PA. JOHN E. PITZER, MEMBER POST 9, G. A. R. 4H$S S€S83tT, —DEALER IN— Hats, Shirts, Shoes, Ties, Umbrellas, Gloves, Satchels, Hose, docket (Books, Trunks, Telescopes, (Rubbers, Etc., Etc. AMOS ECKERT. 0ITY HOTEL Gettysburg, Pa. JOHD, E, iu&HES, PROPfi Tins Hotf] is situated on Main street, one square I from 1\ and R. and W. M. R. B. Depots and within one-half minute's walk of the Diamond. Every room is heated, and lighted by electricity. 1'arlors on first and second floors. Bath and Toilet rooms I on second floor, gratis to guests. Rates $1 .50 to I $2.50 per day. Booms without Hoard 50 cents andl upward according to location. Excellent accommo-l dations for -50 people. Electric cars stop at the| door eveiy half hour. Livery Connected, with first-class Teams, and Battle-field| Guides at Low Hates. Dinner -with Drive over the Battle-field SI The College Metcufy. VOL. HI. GETTYSBURG, PA., APRIL, 1895. No. 2. THE COLLEGE MERCURY, Published each month during the college year by the Students Of Pennsylvania (Gettysburg) College. STAFF. Editor : HENRY E. CLARE, '95 Associate Editors : SYLVESTER C. BERGER. '95. E. A. ARMSTRONG, '97. J. EDWARD BYERS, '95- GEO. F. ABEL, 'g7 WILMER A. HARTMAN, '95. HORACE M. WITMAN, '95. ROSCOE C. WRIGHT, '95. Alumni Association Editor: REV. D. FRANK GARLAND, A. M , Baltimore, Md. Business Manager: HARRY D. NEWCOMER, '95. Assistant Business Manager: I. O. MOSER, '96. mnT.™, /One volume (ten months). . . . $1.00 ILRMS. -jingle copies .15 Payable in aivancc. All Students are requested to hand us matter for publication. The Alumni and ex-members or the College will favor us by sending information concerning their whereabouts or any items they may think would be Interesting for publication. All subscriptions and business matters should be addressed to the business manager. Matter Intended for publication should be addressed to the Editor Address, THE COLLEGK MERCURY, Gettysburg, Pa. CONTENTS. EDITORIALS 19 IINDU GEOGRAPHY AND ASTRONOMY --- 20 LUTHER AS AN EDUCATOR --- 22 COLLEGE LOCALS 25 ALUMNI NOTES --- 29 TOWN AND SEMINARY NOTES 31 ATERNITY NOTES --- 32 | LITERARY SOCIETIES .---33 ATHLETICS --- 34 BOOK REVIEW - - - - - - - - - --35 S.ECENT GIFTS TO THE MUSEUM 35 EDITORIAL. THE business manager of the MERCURY wishes to thank those subscribers who re-sponded so promptly to the bills he recently sent out. It is frequently a very difficult mat-ter to collect subscription money and we are hap-py thus to be free of this unpleasant difficulty. The MERCURY certainly appreciates this mark of thought!ulness and assurance of support on the part of the Alumni and other subscribers. If the MERCURY receives the support it de-serves, it will abundantly repay the societies for their efforts in originating and conduct-ing it. * * * THE prospects for the present base-ball sea-son are unquestionably very bright. It is true that the material from which the team must be selected is rather scarce ; yet it is of such quality that it will be possible to decide upon a reasonably good nine. The oppor-tunity for Gettysburg to raise her standing in the college world is probably better this season than at any previous time in her athletic his-tory. In a few former seasons we may have had more and better material from which to select a team, yet the opportunity of showing off to any great advantage the skill we may have had was not nearly so favorable as in the present season. The number of games sched-uled for this season is greater than we usually have, and the standing of the institutions with which the games are to be played is decidedly higher. Hard work and loyal support from all hands is therefore extremely important. The manager cannot make the season a suc-cess unless the team enter heartily and earn-estly into the work. Neither can the team throw that enthusiasm and spirit into their work which is so essential to success unless ^■IHHMIHH 20 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. they receive assistance and encouragement from the student body. Let all help with hands and mouth to make this season a glori-ous success. Only hearty co-operation can make it such. *** WE were surprised not to see the Stars and Stripes waiving from the dormitory cupola on April 9th, the anniversary of "Lee's surrender to Grant." To have the flag unfurled over the spot where the General made his recon-noitre of the battlefield on that terrible July day of '63, would be a fit commemoration of his surrender at Appomattox. It is a day Ameri-cans should remember, especially Gettysburg people, who had sort of a personal acquaint-ance with the General. A better show of patriotism by the College on such days would not be amiss. For that purpose the new flag was purchased. * * * THE article, "Luther as an Educator," which was begun in the February number of the MERCURY but not continued in the March number on account of the sickness of the writer, will be completed in this number. * * * THE PRIZE SYSTEM.—That prizes are of-fered in all our institutions of learning to those students who attain highest degree of excel-lence in their studies argues in favor of the wisdom of the prize system. The student is encouraged to diligence and painstaking effort by the hope of reward. He is stimulated to greater exertion in the pursuit of knowledge. But there is an element of weakness in the prize system. They who seek knowledge for the "sake of the prize" are not genuine lovers of knowledge. They love the rewards of knowledge. To them wisdom does not have "price above rubies." Had the attainment of knowledge no reward to offer them they would be indolent. It is a question indeed whether or not he is a scholar who has gained knowledge merely for the sake of the reward, either in the prize which is given, or in the honor which it confers, or in the success which it makes possible. "Honesty is the best pol-icy," but he who is honest merely for the sake of policy is not honest at heart. He has not integrity of character. He who tells the truth merely because he finds that in the long run truth brings its own reward, is not really a truthful man. So he who studies merely for the sake of the reward which is offered, is not in the highest and best sense a true student. This is the element of weakness in the prize system. G. HINDU GEOGRAPHY AND ASTRONOMY. These subjects, though separate in our sci-ence, are inseparably allied in the monstrous extravagancies of Hindu science, falsely so called. It would be a waste of time and space to crowd these columns with their wild and ridiculous nonsense upon these subjects. Yet it may be worth while to give the reader an idea as to the unscientific, method of research employed by the ancient Brahmins of India. They claim that the physical universe is di-vided into fourteen spheres—seven superior. The first of which is our earth, and seven in-ferior ; consisting (with the exception of our earth) of immense tracts of space bestudded with the stars, the habitations of the gods, and rising in concentric circles not unlike the rings of Saturn. The seven inferior worlds form regular de-scending series, which, it is needless to say, are the abodes of wicked and loathsome creat-ures. Our own earth is said to be circular and flat like the flower of the water lily in which the petals project beyond each other. Its habit-able portions consist of seven circular islands or continents separated by different oceans. Its central or metropolitan island, the abode of | men, is called Jamba Dvvip. Around this rolls a sea of salt water ; next follows the sec-ond island and around it the sea of sugar-cane juice ; around the third the sea of spirituous THE COLLEGE MERCURY. 21 ) it e t-lis- j ts 3f| is c-le | L1S I liquors ; around the fourth the sea of clarified butter ; around the fifth the sea of sour curds ; around the sixth is the sea of milk. Then the seventh is on uninhabited land of pure gold, so immense that it equals the size of all the [islands and intervening oceans. It is begirt with a bounding wall of huge mountains, which enclose within their bosoms the realms of everlasting darkness. Now, for a conception of the size of this fantastic area of land and sea, the central [island is several hundred thousand miles in di-ameter, and the sea of the same breadth. The [next island and sea are each twice as broad as [the first, and so on for the rest of the islands land their seas until we come to the last. Just [imagine the huge size of our planet, which, in [diameter far excels the distance even of our [sun from us ! In the midst of the immeasurable plain, from Ithe very centre of Jamba Dwip, rises Su-Meru, [the loftiest of mountains, to the height of ■several hundred thousand miles in the form of fen inverted pyramid, having the summit two Ihundred times as broad as the base. This [summit is in turn surmounted with three swel-ling cones—the highest of these cones piercing Ithe upper spheres of vacancy with three golden peaks, which is the favorite residence of the sacred Triad.* At its base stand four lofty Els, on each of which grows a mango tree several thousand miles high, bearing fruit lany hundred cubits in length and sweet as lectar. From these mangos, as they fall, lows a mighty perfumed river, so sweet that lose who drink thereof exhale the odor from leir persons for a distance of several leagues. Phere also grow rose apple trees, the fruit of vhich, the size of an elephant, gives rise to another river which converts the earth over vhich it passes into pure gold. Such is a brief notice of the ideas of Geog-aphy furnished by the sacred writings. In turning to the upper world we obtain a limpse of Hindu Astronomy. The second * Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva as the Creator, Preserver and Destroyer. world of the ascending series, or that winch immediately overvaults the earth, is the re-gion of space between the earth and the sun, which is declared on divine authority to be distant only a few hundred thousand miles. The third in the upward ascent is the region of space intermediate between the sun and the polar star. Within this region are the plane-tary and stellar mansions. The distances of all the heavenly luminaries are given with the utmost precision, but would be of no value here. The moon is placed beyond the sun as far as the sun is beyond the earth ! Next suc-ceed, at equal distances from each other, the stars, and beyond them the planets Mercury, Venus and Mars. . Jupiter and Saturn are also at equal distances from each other, and beyond these the constellation of Ursa Major, and last of all, the Polar Star. The remaining four regions continue to rise at immense and in-creasing distances. The entire circumference of the celestial space is given with wonderful minuteness. In all these four superior worlds are framed mansions of surpassing beauty for the different orders of spirits. The seventh or last is destined for the abode of Brahma, the Lord and Creator, who rules over the whole universe. Such is the exceeding beauty of the palace, that one of the "divine sages" said that it would take two hundred years to enumerate its beauty, as it contains everything that is precious or beautiful or magnificent in all the other heavens but in a superior degree. What then must it be considering the magnificence and grandeur of some of these ! Glance at the heaven in only the third world prepared for Indra, the king of the different ranks and de-grees of the subordinate deities. Its palaces are "all of purest gold, so resplendent with vessels of diamonds and columns and orna-ments of jasper and sapphire and emerald, and all manner of precious stones, that it shines with a splendor exceeding the brightness of twelve thousand suns. Its streets are of purest crystal, fringed with fine gold. It is sur-rounded with a forrest of all kinds of trees and flowering shrubs, whose sweet odors are dif- ^■■iHHH^HMHHMMHH 22 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. fused around for hundreds of miles. It is be-studded with gardens and pools of water, warm in winter and cool in summer, richly stored with fish, water fowl and lillies, blue, red and white, spreading out on a hundred or a thou-sand petals. Winds there are, but they are always refreshing; storms or sultry heats be-ing unknown. Clouds there are, but they are light and fleecy and fantastic canopies of glory. Thrones there are which blaze like the corus-cations of lightning, enough to dazzle any mortal vision. And warbliugs there are of sweetest melody, with all the inspiring har-monies of music and of song, among bowers that are ever fragrant and ever green." Such is a brief description of the beliefs of the ancient Hindus regarding the universe. The reader will remember that these de-scriptions are not to be taken as figurative or emblematic, as is appropriate to a state of glory of whose nature and details the heart of man cannot conceive, but that they were un-derstood as they are taught, in the strictest literality. B., '97. LUTHER AS AN EDUCATOR. II. Thus, in all the world * * * * teachers have heen found necessary when a nation was to be elevated.—LUTHER. Luther is to be called an "educator" in vir-tue of what he wrote and advocated concern-ing education rather than in virtue of his work as a university professor. Among his writings the ones which bear directly on edu-cation are the address "To the Mayors and Aldermen of all the Cities of Germany in Be-half of Education," and the sermon on "The Duty ot Sending Children to School." In the prefaces to his catechisms are to be found many suggestions as to methods of teaching. From these writings we learn what his educational views were, but we get from them no light be-yond the theoretical. He was more than theo-retically interested, however, for we find him bearing, in 1525, a commission from the Duke of Mansfield authorizing him to establish two schools, one primary and the other secondary, in the town of Eisleben. These schools, we are told, became models "both in the course of study and methods of instruction'' for many other schools. As an educator Luther had a clearly de-fined ideal (the absence of which has character-ized many' of the educational efforts of the past). In this he takes the precedence of Herbart, one of the distinctive features of whose work was to inquire as to the end of education. To him it was ethical. Luther's end was the attainment of Christian manhood. Along with this ideal we find running an everpresent view of utility, now toward the church, now the state, but keeping away from sorditity at all times. This "practical bent" can be readily accounted for by considering the purpose his educational writings were intended to serve, and the times in which they were written. Before advocating any reformation in educa tional. matters, Luther surveyed the existing state of education and passed his critical ver-dict upon it. His actions in themselves would be sufficient criticism, but we have criticisms far more explicit referring to the several edu-cational agencies briefly spoken of in a previ-ous article. He says : "The universities are becoming weak, the monasteries are declin-ing." Again : "I should prefer that our youth remain ignorant and dumb rather than that the universities and convents should re-main the only source of instruction open to them." But, lest it be objected that those criticisms were from the religious rather than from the educational point of view, let him speak again: "Instead of good books, the senseless, useless books of the monks * * * so that the Latin language was corrupted, and neither good schools, good instruction, nor good methods of study remained." In this conviction concerning existing ediv cational efforts together with his conception of the possibilities and of the necessities of edu cation in relation to the welfare of both church and state we find the impulse of his educational efforts. They were unselfish efforts. This is very plainly shown by the element of devotion I THE COLLEGE MERCURY. 23 to both the church and the state which is man-ifested by his works. He was convinced that he was discharging a duty second to none as he worried and worked in this cause. It has been said that the German school system of to-day is but a realization of the ideas of Luther. In view of the rank now held by this system, in view of the attention it is receiving from educators of all lands, no greater encomium can be pronounced upon Luther's educational efforts. Nor does the statement appear overdrawn. In Luther's plan he provides three grades of schools—the primary school, the secondary school and the university—thus having a regular gradatiou from the time of the child's first entering school until the time of his completion of the university course. This is substantially the German system of to-day. 'Tis true, the sec-ondary school is quite complex, but this fact [does not disprove the presence of Luther's idea. In this plan we find that forshadowed which is clearly brought forth in his writings, i. e., universal education—the distinguishing feat-ure of Luther's work. He would have no dis-tinctions, whatever, made whereby any class would be deprived of the privileges of an edu-cation. In the light of what now exists, this seems a commonplace idea. But its true sig-nificance is seen when we remember that never before had it been advocated by any man nor had it been practiced by a State. We likewise feee its significance when, we remember that the masterly educational tractates written after Shis day, advocated education for the nobility, or, at best, for the gentility. In a previous ndB^ferticle we have seen how the education of girls iorHwas ver-V generally neglected during the mid-dle ages. (And yet it received more attention [then than at any previous time.) Luther trongly advocated schools for girls that they too might receive the benefit of education. As result of his work in this direction we find im, in a letter written six years after his ap-eal to the state authorities, rejoicing over the stablishment of girls' schools. If Luther had :r-ld| n-u-i-je n- IUI an re-to )se an im the advanced no idea besides the one of universal education—education for the common people as well as for the nobility—his portrait might justly hang in the gallery of educational re-formers. Strange as it may seem, Luther was an ar-dent advocate of state education. This idea was one which dates back to the educational; system of the Persians, and which had been successfully tried by the classic nations. But through the middle ages, after the time of Charlemagne, no evidence of state efforts is to-be found. It remained for Luther, a church-man, a religious reformer, to strike the first effective blow at the existing system of educa-; tion in subordination to the church. In his plea for state attention to education he goes so far as to argue for it "though there were no soul, no heaven, no hell, but only the civil government." He launched severe criticism against the Papists because they manifested no concern, whatever, in civil affairs, because their educational system tended to the cloister and to the priesthood almost exclusively. He did not lightly esteem home education. It was from no such reason he looked to the state. On the contrary he desired much teach-ing to be done in the home. But the condi-tion of affairs was such that home education could not be looked to to supply the demand: made by both church and state. He said that even if the homes could do it, some would not.' The majority of them could not do it if they would. And even if the homes were qualified to do it, duties and employments would leave no time for its accomplishment. Thus, the church being removed by his supposition and the home being unable to accomplish it, if ed-ucation is to be attended to at all, it must be at-tended to by the state. He went one step further and proposed that,when necessary, com-pulsory attendance should be employed by the slate. This movement, at the present time, is making steady progress. In due time so-ciety will reap the benefit of this seed-sowing time. Luther put the matter in a ver}r strong way. His way was: "But I maintain that 24 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. : the civil authorities are under obligations to compel the people to send their children to school.'' But we are disposed to look briefly at some other views he had, many of which are actual-ized in the pedagogy of the present day. The curriculum of studies proposed by Luther was a liberal one. In it, as is to be expected, he gives the first place to religion. Then follow the languages. Compayre laments that Luther wanted only the "learned languages, Latin, Greek and Hebrew." It is true he wanted all these and defended their place in the curricu-lum in a very forceful way. He was arguing against churchmen and used arguments which were of a churchly nature. What arguments he would have used under other conditions we can only conjecture. But it seems that this lament, which remains unannotated by the American editor, does Luther an injustice. His translation of the scriptures is in itself an evidence of his esteem for the vernacular. But we have other testimony. In his address to the Mayors, etc., he says: "Would to God each town had also a girl's school, in which the girls might be taught the gospel for an hour daily, either in German or Latin." And again, . to teach them reading and writ-ing in German a few hours daily." From these we cannot conclude otherwise than that he was an advocate of the vernacular, at least in the primary grade. But even that was a great stride in educational progress. He would have the "whole course in mathematics studied." The liberal arts of the middle ages he did not hold in very high esteem. He wished history and poetry, as well as both in-strumental and vocal music. His arguments in behalf of history are the very ones which led to its proscription by the Jesuits. In speaking of history and poetry he says: "How I regret that I did not read more poetry and history, that no one taught me in these branches. Instead of these I was obliged with great cost, labor and injur}7, to read Sat-anic filth, Aristotelian logic, and Scholastic philosophy, so that I have enough to get rid of it." To one interested in the trend of the peda-gogy of the present day there are in Luther's views several very significant points. He be-lieved in providing physical exercise and great freedom in the school. He says the young have for such things ' 'a natural (that trouble-some and all-comprehensive term) desire which should not be restrained." He also held that "by the gracious arrangement of God children take delight in acquiring knowl-edge." What do we have in this last sentence if not the doctrine of interest, as elaborated in later years ? It seems almost incredible that our present movement of nature studies could have found an advocate at such an early day. But can we question the fact when we hear Luther say: "We are at the dawn of a new era, for we are beginning to recover the knowledge of the external world * * !" He criticised Erasmus for a lack of interest in the mysteries of nature, saying: "Erasmus is indifferent and does not care to know how fruit is developed from the seed. * * Erasmus passes by all that, takes no account of it, and looks upon external objects as cows look upon a new gate." The employment of natural ob-jects in education is generally conceded as one of the hopeful promises of better things. In these views Luther is "a modern" in educa-tional affairs. Space bids us close. In the realm of methods Luther seems to have had many views which are approved at the present time. He was disposed, at times, out of his high esteem of teaching, to rank it above the minis-try. He regarded an experience in teaching as an essential factor in one's preparation for the ministry. "I would have no one chosen as preacher who has not previously been a school teacher." Nor was this experience which he desired that ofan unprepared teacher. He advocated their being trained and prepared before entering upon the profession. What "might have been" we do not know, but the best results of Luther's work for education were interfered with by the Thirty-Years War. When the history of education is written gi THE COLLEGE MERCURY. 25 Ifrom the standpoint of a gradual evolution, Luther's name must have a prominent place. A number of educators following him have I been influenced by him, but we- are able to ; find no educator preceding him from whom his ideas could have been borrowed, by whom [ they could have been suggested. He was a [pioneer in educational reform. His portrait jwas fittingly selected and placed upon the walls of that educational lecture room. H. P. COLLEGE LOCALS. J. EDWARD BYERS AND E. A. ARMSTRONG, Editors. Tennis! Baseball! Caps and gowns! New preps. "Any time after six." '95 on home stretch. Commencement on June 20th. Something new: (?) Ashen walks. "And the green grass grows all around." Required work in the "Gym" ends on 1st of lay. The important question : Who will be the fen commencement speakers ? _ F., '98, says he doesn't like to have Fellows sit on him. Says he prefers girls. Socio says the latest style in spring bonnets is to trim them without Bows. 'Pete" reports a pleasant vacation—lots of un and plenty of good times. Says the latest song in Baltimore is "Nay, O, my, me, O, my!" Work was again resumed on the new ath-letic field during the recent vacation. A full force has been steadily employed, and the Ivork is progressing very nicely. Though college closed on Friday noon, larch 22", "Kitzy" didn't leave Gettysburg |ntil Saturday morning. No reasons were £lven, but the following explains itself: BALTIMORE, MD. March 23, 1895. JEAR IKEY: Reached home safely this P. M. Was sick on the train. Had cramps in my right arm. Think my shoulder must be dislocated. Re-member me to all anxious and inquiring friends. Sincerely, KITZY. Mr. Josie Enniss, a student of Gettysburg College, is home for his Easter vacation.— Brunswick {Md.) Herald. We call him only Joe. Dr. B.'s latest: "What is the cheapest part of a man's face?" Ans.: "His nostrils—two for a scent." The class of '97 has now another reason for the boastful pride which it is continually man-ifesting, in the recent discovery of its happy fortune in possessing a married member. It was made kuown very unintentionally by Mr. S , who accidentally displayed a letter from one of the little ones, addressing him as "Dear papa." Say, Billy, which are your favorite hymns ? Billy W.: I have four: Nos. 235, 261, 330, 344. Look at them once and tell me if you don't think the tunes are charming. It manifests a woeful destitution in geo-graphical knowledge when, in reply to a few questions, a Freshman answers that Egypt is in Asia and that Sicily lies south-east of Africa. Atlases are cheap, Charlie, better get one. A little dog came to chapel the other morn-ing. Dr. H., apparently to justify the little fellow, said : "Now, I know that little dog will-behave himself, if the rest will." There is something wrong with Ikey's cal-endar— he observed passion week, March 28 to April 4. Services were held regularly from 7 to 10 P. M. In the preliminary contest held at the close of last term Kump, '95, was chosen as the one to represent our college in the ' 'State Inter- Collegiate Oratorical Contest" to be held in Lancaster, on the 27th of this mouth. At the same time Wright, '95, was also chosen as a second man. York County Academy is now preparing seven men who will enter the Freshman class next year. We already assure them a hearty welcome to all our advantages, and hope noth-ing will interfere with their purposes. That "smart Alec" C(K)ain is the way Dr. B. designates a famous biblical character. Our friend K., in '97, is indignant that his antedi-luvian ancestor should thus be spoken of. ^^■^■■^^■^■■■■■^■■iM^MBBMB^B^HBB! 26 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. Charlie B., '95, had occasion, recently, to refer to "The dead book." It must be quite an interesting volume. Echoes from the burglar alarm in dormitory during vacation: Waldo—Don't you think I'd better go to my room and get my pistol ? "Brady"—Gentlemen, this is a serious case. "Gov." be careful. Don't rush rashly into danger. Let me go up town and get a police-man. (Faints). Finch (badly scared)—Dear me, I wish I were home. Ikey (after excitement had subsided)—I wish I could have seen the burglar, but I had a pressing engagement that evening, and couldn't possibly be present. We have no knowledge of any instance when an animal spoke, have we ? Sem.—How about Baalam's ass? At a recent business meeting: Mr. Rietz—For critic, I nominate Barbe-henu. Freddy—Mr. President, I nominate her hus-band, "Die." Miller, '95, spent vacation with Leidich, '95, and together they visited many interesting points in Northern Berks County, making geo-logical and minerological investigations. They brought with them many fine specimens. Speaking of the merits of different kinds of bread, Brube remarked: "Yes, I like that steam bread. When I was home we always got our bread from the steam laundry." Dr. Stahley, who was sick and unable to at-tend to his college work for several weeks last term, we are glad to know has again returned from Easton, with regained health, and is now able to pursue his work again in his usual effectual way. Miller, Diehl, Leidich and Moser visited Kutztown State Normal during vacation, and were present upon the occasion of the anni-versary celebration of the Keystone Library Society, connected with the institution. They report having had a very pleasant time and having created quite a sensation among the ladies there. The delightful treat given each year to the Senior class was looked forward to by the present distinguished one with more than usual pleasure. The kind invitation to attend a reception given by Dr. and Mrs. McKnight was accepted by the class most heartily. It would seem as though it had some presenti-ment of what it was to enjoy upon that occa-sion, which will ever be cherished in happy rememberanee as one of the fondest recollec-tions of the class of '95. No effort was spared to make the evening one of pleasure and en-joyment. After spending a few hours in agreeable conversation, etc., the guests were ushered to the dining room, where they were served with such delicacies as would appease the palate of the most fastidious epicure. This sumptuous repast over, toasts followed. Our worthy president, Mr. H. E. Clare, act-ing as toastmaster, called for the following toasts in his natural, pleasing manner: "Our Host and Hostess," Witman; "Class of'95," Byers; "Our Future Career," Kump; "Our Stars," Richards; "Our New Athletic Field," Hartman; "Our Alma Mater," Bell; " '95 as Students," Dr. McKnight. Keffer and Keefer, as also Hollinger and Wiest, entertained for a while with beautiful selections on banjos and mandolins. Several choruses were sung by the class, after which they very reluctantly bade their kind host and | hostess "good night." The Senior Class has shown its college spirit I by deciding to wear caps and gowns during the | spring term and at all Commencement exer-cises. No class, heretofore, in the history of I the institution, has appeared in the academic robe, although we believe it had been partially adopted by a recent class. '95 is to be com-mended for the stand it has taken in reference | to this matter, as it will tend to elevate col-lege spirit and make the class ever remem-ber its last days in college. Let the example, so well set, be followed by '96 and succeeding | classes. It will lend dignity to our Commence- r ment exercises. White, '97, was unable to return on time on account of sickness, We miss him in his ac-[ customed place on the base-ball field as well as| in the class room. It was in Physiology that Dr. S. received | the following answers : ' 'What makes you stand up ? " Harney—"Because I must." In regard to the time when exercise shouldI not be taken, T. says, "It is never well to ex-j ercise before rising.'' And W., in answer toI the question, "When is it not good to go fisli-l ing," sagely replied, "When you can't get I bite." H. told the Dr. that it was better to ex-| THE COLLEGE; MERCURY. 27 ercise in the open air than in a closed room. Hope the Dr. will N. B. The Seniors are taking Natural Theology. It is said the earnestness of the professor rather startled the B. S. men who had never before recited to him. The "rattling" must [have been contagious as we hear of Dick talk-i ing learnedly of a ' 'human man.'' The Sems., who had been boarding at the (Hotel de McCullough, left in a body because the College boys there did not show the proper respect due to them as superiors. Sammie threatened to cut off his mustache Iduring vacation. We see him still nursing it [and it is rumored that he wears it "by re- Iquest" of his best girl. A normal class has been organized at Prep. The course of study to be pursued is modeled {after suggestions of Prof. Thoman. The course twill be a great help to those intending to take the coming county examinations. I At the end of last term several of the boys Book a tramp across the mountains. The Geol- [ogy class will 110 doubt receive the benefit of their observations. Miller.and Leidich '95, took in quite a large portion of Eastern jPennsylvania, getting specimens and visiting natural curiosities. C, Jr., (near close of last term)—"I wish kou fellows over there would keep quiet. I want to stud}'." Fellows across the hall—"What are you tudying ? " C, Jr.—"I'm trying to study out how to get home on the amount of money I have.'' Those of the boys who were lucky enough .0 get to the Phi Kho Mu reception at Irving, 0 April 3, report a very pleasant time. We ould, however, advise one of the boys who as there to carry a microscope which might nable him to tell the difference between real .nd artificial daisies. During the past vacation Isett, '98, gave a peaching in Johnstown Y. M. C. A. Hall and ssisted H. P. Ecker at an organ recital in Carnegie Hall, Allegheny City. He also re-hited at an entertainment given by the students mi King's School of Oratory, of which he is a graduate. As Mr. Kump was. going to the Chapel to lear the lecture delivered on April 9th, by the nan with that unpronounceable name, he hap-pened to glance up to his window in the dorm-itory and saw that his room was enveloped in flames. In less time than it takes to tell it, he and several others were on the third floor and, without raising a general alarm, succeeded in putting out the fire. It seems that the student lamp in the room exploded, scattering oil over the table, chairs and carpet. The table cover is a total wreck as is also the cushion which was used on Mr. K.'s office chair. Among the injured are the carpet and office chair. Perlie now lives in Gettysburg. City in-fluences are beginning to tell on him. He has already begun to drop ruralities and adopt town customs and accents. We have not yet had the pleasure of meet-ing "Baby Nixon." Nevertheless we were rejoiced to see him on the campus a few clays ago. He is the very picture of "Pop." The concert given by the musical clubs of the college on Monday night, March the 18th, was declared by all who heard it the best con-cert ever given in Gettysburg by these organi-zations. Considering this fact, it was unfor-tunate that the clubs received so little patron-age. The audience was the smallest ever present at a concert of this kind, but the ap-plause was very enthusiastic. The Glee Club acquitted itself especially well. Their rendi-tion of the closing "Serenade" was fine. The instrumental clubs received numerous encores. A small amount was realized on the debt of the clubs. The following is a list of students who en-tered Prep this term: R. O. Diehl, Bedminster, Pa.; R. A. Brandt, Lebanon; H. V. Kahler, New Port; G. O. Lutz, Boiling Springs; L. P. Young, Belle-ville; R. D. Clare, Abbottstown; M. C. Wil-liams, Robt. E. Good, C. W. Stock, Gettys-burg; Amanda E. Bennett, Seven Stars; John Hartzel, Gettysburg; Geo. B. Hoover, Brandts-ville: Emory Brame, Mattie B. Johns, J. L-Siever, Gettysburg. The following contributions to the contin-gent fund of Pennsylvania College are hereby gratefully acknowledged : Christ Church, Gettysburg, Eev. L. S. Black, §17.05; Seventh Street Church, Lebanon, Rev. P. C. Croll, 82.12; Elk Lick, Eev. E. S. Johnston, $5; Grace Church, Westminster, Md., Eev. P. H. Miller, $4.50; Salem charge, Westminster, Md., Rev. S. A. Diehl, §1; Chambersburg, Eev. E. H. Leisenring, $13.65; St. Paul's, Millersburg, Eev. B. F. Kautz, $2.50; St. Mark's, Baltimore, Md., Eev. W. H. Dunbar, D. D., $45; Harrisburg, (personal contribution) Eev. S. Dasher, $1; Hazleton, Eev. John Wagner, $15.08; St. 28 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. James', Gettysburg, Rev. A. K. Steck, $4.75; Christ Church, York, Rev. G. W. Enders, D. D. $0.50; Lebanon, Rev. W. E. Stabler, $27.26; Glen Gardner, N. J., Rev. A. A. King, $2.30; Ashland, Rev. G. \V. Fritsoh, $1.20; Williamsport, Md., Rev. M. D. Gaver, $3; Philipsburg, N. J., Rev. T. C. Pritchard, $5.60; Uniontown, Md., Rev. G. W. Baughman, $4; Frost-bnrg, Md., Rev. C. A. Brill, $5; Zion, Harrisburg, Rev. D. M. Gilbert, D. D., $46.56; Taneytown Trinity, Taneytown, Md., Rev. G. W. McSherry, $1; St. Raul's, Newville, Rev. J. J. Kerr, $2; Arendtsville, Rev. D. T. Koser, $4; Phoenixville, Rev. G. E. Faber, $3.28; St. Mark's, Hanover, Rev. C. M. Stock, $12; St. John's, Hagerstown, Md., Rev. S. W. Owen, D. D., $12.40; St. Peter's, York, Rev. T. B. Thomas, $1.50; St. James', Ashland, Rev. W. M. B. Glanding, $2.21; St. Matthew's, Schuvlkill Haven, Rev. D. M. Moser, $5; St. Paul's, Fasten, Rev. A. H. F. Fischer, $20; Messiah, Philadelphia, Rev. M. H. Valentine, $23; Mercersburg, Rev. L. A. Mann, D. D., $2; St. Paul's, Altoona, Rev. E. J. Metzler, $2.71; St. Paul's, Spring Forge, Rev. A. A. Parr, $37.35; St. Paul's, Allentown, Rev. J. A. Singmaster, D. D., $10; St, Matthew's, Reading, Rev. R. W. Hufford, D. D., $12.59; St. John's, Mahanoy City, Rev. I. P. Zimmerman, $4.5o; Holv Trinity, Berlin, Rev. S. J. Taylor, $4.85; Jeffer-son,* Md., Rev. S. A. Hedges, $2.87; Felton, Rev. E. Manges, $2.21; First Church, Carlisle, Rev. H. B. Wile, $26.54; Trinity, Germautown, Rev. L. E. Albert, D. D., $33; Aaronsburg, Rev. A. G. Wolf, $5.51; Zion, York, Rev. A. W. Lilly, D. D., $9.50; St. John's, Lancaster, B. F. Alleman, D. D., $5; Stoyestown, Rev. L. N. Fleck, $7.50; Leitersburg, Md., Rev. Victor Miller, $3.25; West Fairview, Rev. J. L. Nicholas, $2; Third Church, Baltimore, Md., Rev. I. C. Burke, $15; Trinity charge, York county, Rev. F. S. Geesey, S10.40: St. Paul's, York, Rev: W. S. Freas, $12 06. H. C. PICKIW, Treasurer. Y. M. C. A. NOTES. At the last business meeting of the winter term, the following officers were elected for the ensuing year. President, H. E. Glazier, '96 ; Vice Pres., W. E. Wheeler, '97; Cor. Sec, R. W. Woods, '98 ; Rec. Sec, J. W. Kraft, '98 ; Treasurer, I. O. Moser, '96 ; Reporter, H. D. Shimer, '96. The new topic cards for this term have been distributed. Those who have not yet received any may get them at the Y. M. C. A. Hall. The various committees of the Association have been appointed and a list of them may be found in the topic cards. We are glad to see the great interest which many of the boys are taking in the work of Foreign Missions. A special Missionary Study Class has been organized, whose pur-pose is to study the history of missions. The book used for study is Smith's History of Missions. Several members of the class have volunteered their service for the foreign field. All who are concerned about spreading the gospel news to the many millions of heathen who are now in utter spiritual darkness, may greatly benefit the cause by joining this class. Missionary work is honorable, ennob-ling, and worthy of consideration rather than a commonplace thing and a subject of ridicule. On Tuesday evening, April 9th, a very in-teresting address was delivered in Brua Chapel by Prabala Ramachandrayya Gam, B. A. Mr. Garn is a converted Brahmin and a native of Madras, India. He spoke on the "Religion and Society of India.'' The many who had the privilege of hearing him can attest to his superior intellect. He explained the various religious'beliefs that have been and are in his J native country, and showed wherein they are false and how they have degraded rather than elevated his countrymen. In conclusion he made an earnest appeal to all in behalf of for-eign missions. Mr. Garn's intention in coming to this coun-try is to become acquainted with our Ameri-can institutions and to awaken a missionary spirit among our people. During the coming I year he will visit the various institutions and congregations of the Lutheran Church under the auspices of the Board of Foreign Missions. | We insert the folllowing exchange article, hoping that it may be a warning to all our members and student friends. The writer! does not magnify things, but writes the plain, | unvarnished truth : After nearly four years' experience as pas-1 tor in a college town, I am convinced that I Christian students are more likely to suffer from the perils of college life than those whoj are not Christians. This is not paradoxical, for I the latter have nothing to lose, while the I former have everj'thing to lose. It requires! not only the same private watchfulness, prayer, [ self-examination and scripture reading to keep I oneself spiritually minded in college as it doesj at home, but the same faithful attendanceI upon all means of grace, the same prompt re-l sponsiveness to all calls to duty, the same ac-l tive participation in church work. A few mayl possess the native strength of character which I will enable them to exercise this deligence, de-f spite the demands of college work and the pe-1 culiar temptations of college life, but the aver-f age young Christian does not. Without the! safeguards which are afforded such by identi-l I fication with the church where extreme perilsl ' are to be met, what wonder if they yield to the| tendency to spiritual declension ? THE COLLEGE MERCURY. 29 I have seen the religious lives of many stu- [dents intensified by the stimulus of church as-jsociation which strengthened obligation, but I [have seen the religious lives of many more lessened in intensity, and some go out in utter I darkness because of a lack of this association [and obligation. More than one young man, the pride of his church, have I known to en- Iter college with the ministry in view, and in Ithat mistaken pride, pastor and church have [persuaded him that he could stand alone amid Khe perils of his new environment. I have [seen him throw off one moral restraint after [another, then put on the mask of hypocrisy, land finally fling this aside and openly and [shamefully walk in the counsel of the un-godly, stand in the way of sinners and sit in Ithe seat of the scornful. And, instead of go-ling out of college qualified for the holy office I which the church designed him to fill, he has ijone out qualified only to take a position be-lind a saloon bar or a gambling table. Do not pastors and parents who counsel lyouug men to spend several years of the most ■critical period of their lives without the aid [which immediate church relationship would afford them assume a tremendous responsibil-ity ?—College Pastor. ALUIV||\!I. GEO. F.ABEL, Editor. '43. Rev. Eloyd Knight, at one time pastor pf the Lutheran church at Hollidaysburg, Pa., lied at his home in Yutan, Neb., on March '45. Mr. Gilliard Dock, of Harrisburg, son bf the late Judge William Dock, died recently his 68th year. He was a merchant and a nanufacturer.—Ex. '47. Rev. Dr. Reuben A. Fink died at Johnstown, Pa., on March 25, in his 71st pear. '50. Rev. J. Kellar Kost is now living at faola, Fla. '52. Rev. J. S. Lawson is the editor of the Lutheran Monthly, published by the Lutheran congregations of Pittsburg and vicinity. '61. Rev. J. B. Reimensnyder, D. D., has titered upon his fifteeth year as pastor of St. imes Lutheran church, New York City. '61. Prof. J. Howard Wert, of Harrisburg, ?&., is editing a history of the Harrisburg ligh Schools. '62. The forthcoming Lutheran Commentary is under the editorial charge of H. E. Jacobs, D. D., LL- D. Among the contributors are Dr. E. J. Wolf, '63, and Dr. H. L. Baugher, '57- '62. Rev. J. Kistler will become pastor of the mission recently established at Riverton, a new town opposite Harrisburg.—Ex. '62. Rev. Dr. H. E. Jacobs has resigned the editorship of the Ltdheran Church Review, which he has held for twelve years. '70. Rev. A. G. Fastnacht is converting the three-story brick house on corner of Carlisle and Water streets, Gettysburg, into a double dwelling house. '71. Rev. J. Wagner's article on "Distinct-ive Lutheranism" in the Observer for March 8, ought to be read and pondered over by every Lutheran. '71. Rev. Chas. E. Hay has suffered the loss of his wife, Mrs. Flora E. Hay. '72. Rev. J. A. Koser, of Munc3r, Pa-! will begin his labors at Sioux City, la., on May 1. '72. Rev. W. E. Fischer, of Shamokin, Pa., writes : "I read the MERCURY with a great deal of pleasure and profit. The MERCURY is in every way a credit to its editors and the dear old College for which it speaks. May con-tinued and growing success attend it." We are grateful for the encouragement and believe a comparison with other college journals will corroborate what our friend has said. '73. AlbertS. Kemp, with'73 till the Junior year, died recently in Maryland. He had gone to the southern part of the State to have a surgical operation performed for appendicitis, and died under it. He was a Baltimorean and much interested in Gettysburg College. '73. Rev. T. J. Yost has accepted a call to the Lutheran Church at Cumberland, Md., and will enter upon his duties the first Sunday in May. '73. Rev. L. L- Sieber has moved to town. He was engaged in evangelistic work, and will probably make this his centre, at the same time educating his children. '74. Rev. J. A. Wirt, of Hughesville, Pa., has been elected pastor of the church at Des Moines, la. '74. C. J. Reddig, Esq., of Shippensburg, Pa., is treasurer of the Cumberland Valley Sabbath Association. 3° THE COLLEGE MERCURY. '74. Luther A. Burrell has introduced sev-eral important measures in the House of Rep-resentatives, and is becoming one of the most prominent members of the House. '74. Rev. F. W. Staley, of Middletown, de-livered his lecture, "An Hour's Ride With General Phil. Sheridan," before a large audi-ence in St. Paul's Lutheran Church, Allen-town, Pa., on March 7. It was thrilling, elo-quent, instructive and entertaining. '75. The eighth anniversary of the pastor-ate of Rev. E. D. Weigle, D. D., of the First Lutheran Church at Altoona, Pa., occurred on Sunday, March 31st. '76. Rev. S. E. Smith has been installed as pastor of the Lutheran Church at Puuxsu-tawney, Pa. '76. We have received an interesting letter from Rev. Geo. C. Henry, of Shippensburg, Pa. He and J. S. Alleman, of Harrisburg, are working hard to have a class reunion in '96. It is worth all the trouble it may take. '77. Dr. J. B. Scott has been appointed Medical Inspector for this county by the State Board of Health. '77. Rev. Benj. F. Kautz, of Millersburg, Pa., is very successful in his work there. He has one of the best Young People's societies in the State. '79. Rev. M. D. Gaver, of Williamsport, Md., was thrown from his buggy, recently, while driving from Hagerstown to his home. His horse became frightened and ran away. Mr. Gaver's shoulder was badly hurt. '80. Rev. C. W. Heisler now publishes the Denver Lutheran, a four page paper, and uses the entire space for his own congregation. '80. Rev. J. E. Maurer, of Allegheny, Pa., missionary president of the Pittsburg Synod, has been called to Boonsboro, Md. '82. C. W. Bingham, Esq., is president, and Luther A. Bremer, '83, secretary, of the Maryland Association of Linn county, la. '83. Prof. Huber Gray Buehler, of the Hotchkiss School, Lakeville, Conn., has de-clined to consider an invitation to take charge of the English department of the University School in Chicago. This is the third call from well known schools that Prof. Buehler has declined since he went to New England. A few months ago he was one of nine teachers, who were selected to form a permanent con-ference on the teaching of English in second-ary schools. The conference holds its meet-ings in Boston. '83. Rev. Dr. L. M. Kuhns, of Washing-ton, D. C, is conducting a Sunday School in the new town of New Alexandria, Va. '83. Rev. H. L. Yarger, the new field sec-retary of the Board of Church Extension, will close his pastoral labors at Braddock, Pa., in May. He will then make a thorough inspec-tion of all the lot property and real estate of | the Board in the West. '83. John W. Brown, Esq., of Lancaster, son of the late Rev. Dr. Brown, has been elected City Solicitor. '85. Rev. H. J. Hopeman, Dakota City, Neb., was recently presented.with a large ad-justable revolving study chair by his congre gatiou at Homer, Neb. '89. Grace Lutheran church, of Clarion, Pa., presented their pastor, Rev. H. E. Wieand, an elegant open-faced gold watch, as I an expression of good will. '91. Rev. Stanley Biliheitner was installed | pastor of the West Washington (D. C.) Luth-eran church, on Tuesday evening, March 19. '91. On Sunday, March 3, Rev. Aug. Pohl-man occupied the pulpit of St. Stephen's Ger-man Lutheran church, at Baltimore, and I preached an able sermon to a large and appre-ciative audience. '91. Dr. L. C. Peters' address in Philadel-phia is 2132 Oxford St. The Doctor is get-ting along splendidly. '92. Rev. H. E. Berkey has received a call to the Red Lion charge, in York County, Pa. '92. Mr. Frank Hersh, son of ex-Sheriffl James Hersh, has been placed in charge of the I night force of the chemical laboratories of the I Edgar Thompson steel works, at Braddock, I Pa. This is one of the largest of the Carnegie I plants and employs 4,800 men. '92. E. O. Keen is in the middle class of thel Seminary at Lancaster and stands very high in I his class. He is chairman of the Executive I Committee of the Inter-Seminary Missionary | Alliance. '92. H. H. Jones delivered the Undergradu-ate address before the Stille Medical Society, of the University of Pennsylvania, at its an-nual re-union recently. THE COLLEGE MERCURY. 3i '93- J- F- Kempfer was in town two weeks a^o. He is meeting with the same remark-able success in canvassing, which has always attended him. '93- John Hay Kuhns has a pleasing little article in the Observer of March 15, on ' 'Flowers in the Church." '93. C. W. Leitzell has taken charge of a mission at Murphysboro, 111., for six months. '95. H. L. Hoffman was awarded first place in tumbling in the Yale gymnastic contest, and received a fine silver cup for tumbling and ' work on the horizontal bars.—Ex. '93. Marion J. Kline has been appointed agent for the College to hunt up students. '95. C. W. Crawshaw recently paid a few days' visit to his old classmates at Gettysburg. We are always glad to see our old friends. TOW|\I AND SEWIINAFJY NOTES. S. C. BERGER, Editor. Iiff! TOWN. Hon. Marriott Brosius, of Lancaster, has accepted the invitation of Corporal Skelly Post, G. A. R., and will be the orator on next Dec-oration day. . Mr. Brosius is an eloquent and able man and a fine oration may be expected. The repairs to the Catholic church are about complete. Rev. Father Charles Koch, of Danville, has been appointed to fill Rev. Father Joseph E. Smith's vacancy, who has resigned. In tearing down the wooden portion of the McClellan House, one of the oldest buildings -in town, a number of old coins were found ; also receipts dating back to the early part of the century. A Public Reading Room has been opened in Buehler's Hall, on York street, for the profit and pleasure of the young men and young ladies of the town. Rev. Dr. T. J. Barkley recently completed the eleventh year of his pastorate of the Re-formed church of this place. Rev. Barkley has been very successful during these years, and deserves to be congratulated upon his ithful service and encouraging results. Extensive improvements are being made on the Central Hotel, Baltimore street. Miss Jennie Kalbfleisch has gone to Phila-delphia to teach in a kindergarten school of that city. Miss Pauline Wisotzkey is taking a normal course at Shippensburg. Miss Seebach, of Waynesboro, a sister of Julius Seebach, of the Seminary, was recently a guest of Miss Margaret Himes. Rev. Van Cleve preached for the Presby-terian congregation at Shippensburg during their late communion season. The Shippens-burg people were greatly pleased with the reverend, and the Shippensburg News pro-nounces him a "man of remarkable pulpit oratory.'' The new Episcopal church on Baltimore street will probably be completed this coming summer. On Thursday, March 28th, a convention of the Sunday School workers of Adams county was held in St. James Lutheran Church. Rev. C. J. Kephart, Secretary of the Pennsylvania State Association, was present, and also Mr. Geo. H. Seiler, President of the Fifth District, of which Gettysburg is part, and a number of other speakers. Mrs. L- B. Wolf has sailed for India to join her husband, who is a missionary in that dis-tant land. Proprietor Ziegler, of the Eagle Hotel, has issued a very unique and instructive pocket map of the Battlefield of Gettysburg. Mr. Ziegler is thoroughly acquainted with the field. J. A. Danner has issued the eleventh edition of his pamphlet on the battle and points of in-terest about the town. Mr. John Siebold, of Harrisburg, has been secured by Mrs. Huber to manage her drug store in this place. He is a gradate of the Baltimore School of Pharmacy. In pursuance of the action of the govern-ment creating a National Park at Gettysburg, a meeting of the stockholders of the Battle-field Association, was called April 10th, to authorize the transfer of their property to the United States. Major John Bigelow, commander of the fam-ous Ninth Mass. Battery, now of Minneapolis, was here over Sunday, March 12th. He was accompanied by Major Robbins. Wm. McSherry, Jr., has been elected an 32 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. active member of the American Catholic His-torical Society, at Philadelphia. Mrs. A. M. Rice, of Petrolia, Pa., State Lecturer and Organizer of W. C. T. U. work, will be in Gettysburg on the 22d and 23d insts. in the interest of the Loyal Legion and the Women's Christian Temperance Union work. SEMINARY. The celebrated lecture of Rev. Prof. T. C. Billheimer, on the "Holy Land," will be given in Brua Chapel, Tuesday, April 23d, under the auspices of the Missionary Society of the Seminary. The proceeds are to be used for defraying the expenses incident to the build-ing of the "Cold Spring Mission Church." Rev. H. E. Berkey, of the Senior class of the Seminary, has received a unanimous call to Red Lion charge in York county. Mr. Charles W. Leitzell has received a call from Murphysboro, 111., to which place he and his wife have gone. Rev. F. U. Gift will serve the mission church in Scranton, Pa. The speakers chosen to represent the Senior class in the Commencement exercises are as follows : J. W. Ball, Berlin, Pa. J. L. Frantz, Salem, Va. J. B. Markward, Scotland, Pa. E. E. Schantz, Geryville, Pa. The following arrangements have been made for the dedicatory services of the new building, which will take place on Wednesday morning, May 29th, during Commencement week. The dedicatory address will be delivered by Rev. Dr. Dunbar, of Baltimore, Md. Rev. Dr. Baum, of Philadelphia, President of the Board of Directors, will preside and will speak to the assembly. Gov. Hastings has consented to be present and to address the meeting. The dedication is looked forward to with much in-terest and a large number of friends of the institution are expected. The place for the dedication services has not yet been decided, and will depend, perhaps, on the state of the weather. If the weather is clear a platform may be erected, if not, then the chapel will be used. In St. John's Lutheran church, Lancaster, which was dedicated on the 10th inst., there is a memorial window, "Paul Revealing the Unknown God to the Athenians," in memory of the late Rev. Dr. James Allen Brown, form-erly chairman of the Faculty of the Seminary. —Star and Sentinel. The new Chapel was used for the first time on Good Friday. Dr. Billheimer preached in Dr. Baum's | church, Philadelphia, Sunday, April 14th. R. H. Williams who had been south for J some time, on account of his health, returned on Good Friday, physically improved by his trip. W. H. Nicholas preached in his church, St. Andrews, of Philadelphia, Sunday, April 14th. The pipe organ has been in use for several I weeks. It gives good satisfaction and presents | a handsome appearance. Ff^ATRNiTY NOTES. WILMKE A. HARTMAN, Editor. PHI KAPPA PSI. Bro. Keefer did not return to college until I the 6th, owing to a wedding in the family. Bro. Keffer attended the meeting of the Ex-ecutive Committee of the Inter-Collegiate I Athletic Association of Penn'a., which was| held at Harrisburg on the nth. During vacation Bro. Richardson played on I the Columbian College nine, which defeated the | team from University of Vermont. Bro. Carty visited his home in Frederick, | Md., on Good Friday. Bro. Lark attended the entertainment and | reception given at Irving College on the 3d. PHI GAMMA DELTA. Bro. J. B. Markward, '91, assisted Rev. J.l C. Koller, of St. Matthew's Church, Hanover, | during the Easter services. Bro. Geo. C. Baum, '93, received thirdI mention in the Boz art competition for school | design in the architectural department of U. P.f Bro. F. H. Knubel, '93, returned to Serai! nary last week after a short visit to his home| in New York City. Bro. John Hoffer, '94, is now with Holt &| Co., Flour Commission Merchants, at 951 Broad street, N. Y. Bro. D. A. Buehler, '90, of Philadelphia, visited friends in Gettysburg last month. THE COLLEGE MERCURY. 33 Bros. H. L. Stahler, E. H. Leisenring, and H. C. Alleman were recent visitors to Gettys-burg and College. Bro. C. H. Shaar, '96, spent Easter with his parents at Steelton. PHI DELTA THETA. Bro. Forney spent his vacation very pleas-antly as the guest of several members of the Dickinson Chapter. Bros. Forney and Kain attended the recep-tion at Irving College, Mechanicsburg, Pa., on the night of April 3d. Bro. Maynard spent a part of his vacation with friends in Greencastle, Pa. Bro. Eckels was the guest of Bros. Zeigler, Barndt and Van Camp, Alumni of our Chapter, now in Philadelphia, several days last week. The annual Chapter Letters now out show continued prosperity in all of the sixty-eight. ALPHA TAU OMEGA. Bro. E. Leonard Koller, '98, was initiated on the evening of March nth. Bro. Ennis, '97, spent his vacation in Wash-ington, D. C. Bro. Michler, '97, spent a few days of his vacation with Bro. Bacon, of Harrisburg, Pa. Bro. Chas. G. Bikle, of the Senior class in the Seminary, preached at Oristown, Pa., Sun-day, March 10th. Bro. Menges, at York, Pa. '96, spent Easter with friends Bros. P. W. Koller, E. L. -Koller, '98, and Bikle spent Easter at their respective homes. Bro. James A. McAllister, '98, spent a few days with his father at Harrisburg, Pa. SIGMA CHI. Bro. Heindel, '96, spent his Easter vacation very pleasantly in New York City with Bro. Bixler, '98. While there he visited Bros. Wendt, Damuth and Sigafoos. He also paid a welcome visit to the Nu Nu Chapter at Co-lumbia College. Bros. Leisenring, Monath and Wendt, re-cently paid a flying visit to Hanover. Bro. Bixler, '98, of New York City, paid us a welcome visit at the opening of the Spring term. Bro. William Hersh, '91, was iinanimously re-elected Borough solicitor for Gettysburg at the recent election. The term of Bro. C. M. Stock, '74, of Han-over, as Eminent Commander of the York Commandery, No. 2, Knights Templar, has. just ended. As a token of appreciation, a fine gold post commander's badge was presented to him by the Commander}'. We were very sorry to hear of the deaths of Bros. Martin G. Lilly, '84, of York, Pa., and Albert S. Kemp, '71, of Havre de Grace, Md. The former was in partnership with W. H. Von Mengerinhausen as consulting mechani-cal engineer, and the latter was engaged as a book-keeper for Mr S. J. Seneca's extensive business. They were both very industrious and energetic in their respective positions, and with bright prospects of success. By their deaths, we lose two very active and loyal "Sigs." Bro. Edward C. Kershner, '90, of New York City, Medical Inspector of the U. S. Navy, is now also Fleet Surgeon of the North Atlantic Squadron under the command of Admiral Meade. A few clays ago while the vessel was off Georgetown, Barbadoes, at an-chor, Dr. Kershner received a message to at-tend a poisoned sailor on a Nova Scotian ves-sel in the harbor. But he refused to go for the reason that they were in quarantine, and that deadly fevers infested the region. For his actions, Admiral Meade wrote a scathing letter to Dr. Kershner, and reported the case to Secretary Herbert of the Navy, in which he asked for the Surgeon's removal for coward-ice. The case was investigated by Secretary Herbert and he upheld Dr. Kershner in every particular, and required Admiral Meade to apologize to the surgeon for his letter of rep-rimand. We highly commend the Bro. for his firm stand. LITERACY SOCIETIES. ROSCOE C WRIGHT, Editor. The preliminary contest to decide who shall represent our College at the inter-collegiate oratorical contest, was held in Brua Chapel Thursday evening, March 21. W. A. Kump was selected as principal, and R. C. Wright as alternate. The Judges were Hon. Edward McPherson, the Rev. A. R. Steck and C. E. Stable, Esq. The following were the speakers and their subjects. *0. O. LEIDICH, . - "The Beauty of History." 34 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. fW. A. KUMP, "Defeated Victors." *W. A. HARTMAN, - - - "Courage of Conviction." *I. O. MOSER, - "Our Public School System." tR. C. SMITH, "The American Eagle. ' *R. C. WRIGHT, - "Patriotism and Politics." tJ. E. BYERS, "Efficient Education." * Phrenakosmian. t Philomathean. Both Societies have made additions to their libraries. The latest works on Sociology, Evolution, History, Travel and Political Science have been purchased. PHILO. Friday evening, March 15, was "Senior Evening," The following program was ren-dered : Piano Solo, --- Composed by Erb. Welcome, - - . Feldman. "Influence of the Study of Literature," - - Barbchenn. "Demand for College Men," - - Witman. " '95's Social Life," --- Crilly. Quartet, - Erb, Keffer, Kump, Witman. "The Value of Literary Societies," - - -' Byers. "Reminiscences," - - Erb. Cornet Solo, --- Keffer. DEBATE. Resolved : "That Students Should Participate in College Gov-ernment." Affirmative: { *™ Segaiive. j g"**^ Piano Solo, --- Mcisenliclder. Prophecy, "Our Literary Future," - - - Richards. Farewell Poem, - - - Written by Wert. Valedictory, - Kump. Duet, --- Byers and Wert. The following officers were elected April 5 : President, Wert; Vice President, Baum; Corresponding Secretary, Ritter; Recording Secretary, Buck; Treasurer, H. R. Smith; Librarian, Crilly; Assistant Librarian, Stup; Critic, Byers. PHRENA. SPECIAL PROGRAMME. The following historical program on the popular subject "Napoleon," will be rendered in Phrena. Hall, on Friday, April 26th at 7.30 P. M. ESSAYS. "The Early Life of Napoleon," - Vichl. Historical Sketch, - - Glazier. " " - - - - - - ffoover. "The Empress Josephine," - Mnch. ORATIONS. "The Personality of Napoleon," . Leidich. "The Retreat from Moscow," - Longamckrr. "St. Helena," - - - Bell. Declamation—"Waterloo," - Bikle. SELECTIONS. -Resolved, "That Napoleon was a tyrant, usurping and devoting his power to the promotion of his own aggrandizement." Affirmative. Negatiir. MAYNARD, CLARE, MOSER. MILLER, ATHLETICS. HORACE M. WITMAN, Editor. Saturday, April 20th, New Windsor College | at Gettysburg. It has been decided by the State Inter-Col-legiate Athletic Association that the meet shall I be held at Harrisburg some time in May. If | at all possible, Gettysburg should be repre-sented. The nearness of the place of meeting I is an inducement to enter, and it also makes it| important that we should enter. Let the ath-letic men come out and we can yet send a team | to Harrisburg. An invitation has been received from Lehigh to join in a tennis tournament, to be held at | South Bethlehem next month. About ten col-leges are to participate. It has been decided I by the College Athletic Association to send I representatives in singles and doubles and I a preliminary will be held shortly for the pur-1 pose of selecting them. The move Lehigh hasj taken is a splendid one and should be contin-ued. STATE COLLEGE VS. GETTYSBURG. Score: 6-5. The initial game of the base ball season wasl played with State College on the home grounds! Saturday, April 13. The wet field and lower-[ ihg weather were not the choicest conditions I for the best ball, but the game proved an ex-| ceedingly well-played and interesting one| throughout. According to what seems to have become anl established custom, in all contests with ourl friends from State, we lost. In this instance,! at any rate, it must have been force of habit,! for it was by the purest chance that we did not! win by 5-3. This was the score when State came to thel bat to close the ninth inning. The first twol men were easily disposed of. Then came \ man by the hoodoo name of Brown, who! rapped an easy fly to left field. It was well for him and his team that he hit that ball asl he did; for if it had gone back to the cindetl path, or over to the observatory, or anywherel THE COLLEGE MERCURY. 35 that our brilliant left-fielder might have made a hundred-yards clash for it, that game would have ended suddenly and the college bell would be ringing yet. As it was, however, the fly was so easy and sure that a most rare thing happe re 1—the left fielder muffed a ball. After that three hits were made, and the game was won by the visitors. The playing of both teams was of a very high order. The batteries did especially good work, and the general all-round fielding was most excellent. Particular mention might be made of the out-field work of Brown, Richardson and Leisenring, all of whom caught some very difficult flies, after running long distances. In the in-field, Thomas and Rice, for State, and Keefer, Sheely and Gilbert for Gettysburg, excelled. Con.'i lering that it was the first game of the season lor us, we have reason to congratulate ourselves on the lesult. The college has ma-terial for a very strong team, and we may yet hope that "fortune will smile upon us" more pleasantly in our future games and, particu-larly, in the ore with State. The score and summary follow: STATE COLLEGE. GETTYSBURG. Stuart, 2b 2 Rice, s s 1 Walker, 3b & p 1 Greenland. If o Hays, c o Nesbit. p 1 Painter, lb & 3b. o Thomas, cf. & ib. 1 Brown, rf o Kisenher^. cf o R. ill o A. E.I 1 Iveisenring. If. 2 1 1 Sheely, ib 010 Keefer. 3b 3 o 1 Tate, c o o 800 Richardson, cf I o 010 Stiinmel. p 1 o 800 Gilbert, 2b 2 2 o o o Kckt-ls, s. s 1 1 300 Hartzell, rf o 1 000 Smith rf o o R IB. o. A. E. o 3 2 7 T 1 ^ 533 6 o o Totals 6 9 27 6 3 Totals 5 7 26*12 3 *Two men out when winning run was made. SUMMARY. Earned runs—State. 1; Gettysburg, 2. Two-base hit—Walker. Three-base hit—Sheely. Bases >toleu—Stuart. Sheely, Keefer. Bases on called balls—Gettysburg, 1. Hit by pitched ball— Walker. Hays, Sheely. Struck out—By Nesbit, 2; by Walker, 6; by Stiinmel, 6. Passed balls—Tate, 1. Time of game—1 hour 45 minutes. Umpire—Kuendig. Gettysburg. 'ECCK REVIEW." A Text Book of Chemistry intended for the ' use of Pharmaceutical and Medical Students, Samuel P. Sadtler, Ph. D., and Henry Trim-ble, Ph. D., Piofessors of Chemistry in the Philadelphia College of Pharmacy. Pages [950, J. B. Lippincott Companv, Philadelphia, 1895. As the title indicates this volume presents the general principles of chemical sciences with the applications having a special bearing on the twin subjects of Medicine and Pharmacy. The work is complete and adequately covers the fields of Inorganic, Organic and Analytical Chemistry and will prove of great service to students, for whom it is intended. E. S. B. REOENT GIFTS TO THE MUSEUM. S. G. Valentine, Ph. D., '80, a number of minerals from Cornwall Mines and elsewhere. Mr. Charles Laubach, Reigelsville, Pa., jas-per quartz from Durham Mine, iron ore from Elva, lime stone, with ripple marks. Diehl, Leidich and Miller, '95, lime stone, slate bearing pyrite. Bell, '95, jasper from South Mountains. "PONY." Freshman had a little "pony," With a greenish, yellow hide, And whenever Freshman studied Greek, He also took a ride. He rode it into class one day, Which was against the rule, It made the fellows laugh and play, To see a "horse" in school. And so the 'lessor kicked hi in out, But still he lingered near, And graz'd contentedly outside Till Freshman did appear. What makes the horse love Freshman so ? His classmates all did cry; Because the Fresh loves horse, you know, The 'fessor made reply.—Ex. We give below "The Classical Version" of this old "Cat Tale:" OLD VERSION. The cunning old cat Lay down on the mat. By the fire in the oaken hall. "If the little mice peep They'll think I'm asleep!" And she rolled herself up in a hall. Nibble, nibble, nibble, Went the little mice. And licked their little paws. But the cunning old cat Sprang up from the mat, And caught them all in her claws. THE CLASSICAL VERSION. An ancient, crafty specimen of the worthy feline race Reclined upon the hearthrug, with a stately, cat-like grace; 36 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. Within the grand apartment, with its polished, oaken wall, By the miniature conflagration she circled like a ball, And thus she meditated, as she feigned to be asleep: "If tiny rodents should arrive to take a little peep, They'd imagine me in dreamland"—just then a gentle tap; In came the mice diminutive, and puss resumed her nap (?), But e're the tiny rodents could salivate their paws This wicked, crafty feline had clutched them with her claws! A. W., '99. Puella pulchra, I.uua clara, Ad studenti O quatn cara !—Ex If Mary's snowy little lamb Back to the earth would hie, The jokes he'd see about himself Would make him glad to die.— Ex, "I dote on oaks," said the languishing maid, "So noble, so stately, so few; Tell me now, Mr. Jones, what's your favorite tree?" And he answered tenderly, "Yew." C^^Ct^C^ j|j The Standard for All. | Columbia | Bicycles ®® ®®®®®®®® ® ® ®®®®® ® Highest Quality of All. Have you feasted your eyes upon the beauty and grace of the 1895 Columbias ? Have you tested and compared them with all others ? Only by such testing can you know how fully the Columbia justifies its proud title of the "Standard for the World.'- Any model or equipment your taste may require. $ J QQ POPE MFG. CO. HARTFORD, Conn. Boston, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Providence, Buffalo. An Art Catalogue of these famous wheels and of Hart-fords, $80$60, freeatColum-bia agencies, or mailed for two 2-cent stamps. ®®®®®®®®®®®®®®® ®® ®®®®®®®®®®®®®®®®®® G. H. BUEHLER, Agent, Gettysburg, Pa JOHN L. SHEtfDS. NEW OIGAR STORE Next door to W. M. 'Depot, Gettysburg, fa. YOHN BROS., _Sol© j\cjonts FOP_ 3f\ r\ ab©, Hardi"qai-), Yose, ©oqoVop, Seb,u.b©pt, AND OTHER PIANOS. jHLilldp, Harqlir), IPaol^apd, ©b,i©ago ©ottage, AND OTHER ORGANS. MUSIC >ND MUSICAL MERCHANDISE. We Guarantee satisfaction in Tnning, Renolisliing and Repairing. No. 307 Market Street, HAR3ISBURC, PA. ^|I-2C-L BAKERY]^ Baltimore Street, South of Court House. GETTYSBURG. YORK STREET, poeeHes f® — Jvueenswa'pe, And evetyihing kept in a first-class store. BARBERSHOP, Carlisle^St., bel'pw Centre Square, Hi W. LONG, Prop'r. ADVERTISEMENTS. A. Q. Spalding & Bros., k flfHLETK SUPPLIES. M®3 Base Ball,—Lawn Tennis,—Golf, UNIFORMS FOR ALL SPORTS. ___ 7*Rids the Sp^d^nS B^Fcle> '^fi/'>(^l=•'y•, . \r 27/.E i£.I 7>.&K KXR 7SS5. o Handsomely Illustrated Catalogues Sent free NEW YORK. PHILADELPHIA. CHICAGO. IJ. E. BOYLE, OF LEECH, STILES & CO., THE PHILADELPHIA EVE SPECIALISTS, HORACE PARTRIDGE CO., 335 Washipgton St.,, BOSTON, MASS-mm iAtJiiwii tsif.feil

Edward Cullen's Masculinity in Stephenie Meyer's New Moon Ahmad Yani Azmi English Literature Faculty of Languages and Arts State University of Surabaya Ahmadyanianjemi007@gmail.com Dr.Ali Mustofa, M.Pd. English Department Faculty of Languages and Arts State University of Surabaya Abstrak Tesis ini bertujuan untuk mengetahui maskulinitas dalam karakter utama dari Stephenie Meyer New Moon , Edward Cullen . Hal pertama yang dibahas adalah keprihatinan masalah dalam karakteristik maskulinitas ditemukan dalam Edward Cullen . Edward Cullen hidup dalam keluarga di tengah-tengah masa perang dan terdidik oleh keluarga yang baik . Latar belakang pendidikan yang diperoleh dari keluarganya membuat Edward Cullen menjadi manusia maskulin yang dominan , berani, cerdas , rasional , analitis , agresif , dan mandiri . Kemaskulinan Edward ini kemudian menjadi dasar dalam kehidupan sosialnya . Kedua, membahas keprihatinan masalah dalam dampak maskulinitas Edward Cullen dalam hidupnya . Kemaskulinan Edward Cullen memberi dampak dalam hidupnya dengan membuatnya menjadi manusia individu dengan sifat karismatik yang kuat . Karakter individu yang kuat mendorongnya menjadi pintar untuk memberikan alasan yang baik dalam setiap keputusan yang dia ambil. Kekarismatikan Edward Cullen dapat dilihat dari keputusan bijaksana yang ia ambil dan penampilannya yang tampan dan menawan. Konsep peran jender dari Sigmund Freud digunakan untuk mengungkapkan tentang karakter maskulinitas Edward Cullen . Selain itu , tujuh karakteristik utama maskulinitas oleh Macionis digunakan untuk mengungkapkan lebih dalam karakter maskulinitas Edward Cullen . Novel New Moon sebagai data utama akan disertai dengan data tambahan untuk menjelaskan secara mendalam dari penerapan teori . Hasilnya akan menunjukkan bahwa Edward Cullen adalah manusia maskulin yang memiliki karakter maskulin seperti ditemukan dalam teori yang digunakan . Kata kunci : rasionalitas , cerdas, keberanian , kemandirian , analitis , dominasi , agresivitas . Abstract This thesis intends to reveal the masculinity in the main character of Stephenie Meyer's New Moon, Edward Cullen. First discussed problem concern in masculinity characteristics found in Edward Cullen. Edward Cullen that is live in family in the middle of the war is educated by well family role. His educational background by his family make Edward Cullen become masculine man that is dominant, brave, intelligent, rational, analytical, aggressive, and independent. Then his masculinity becomes his base in his social life. The second discussed problem concern in the impact of Edward Cullen's masculinity in his life. Edward Cullen's masculinity impact his life by make him become strong individual and charismatic man. His strong individual character pushed him become smart in order to give good reason in every decision he took. Edward Cullen is charismatic man because he is wise in every decision he took and his personality appearance that is good looking and charming. The concept of gender role from Sigmund Freud is used to disclose about Edward Cullen's masculinity character. In addition to that, seven main characteristic of masculinity by Macionis are used to reveal deeper to Edward Cullen's masculinity characters. The novel New Moon as the main data will be accompanied by the additional data in order to elaborate deeply from the application of the theory. The result will shown that Edward Cullen is masculine man that is has masculine characters as be found in the theory which is used. Keywords: rationality, intelligent, bravery, independence, analytical, dominance, aggressiveness. INTRODUCTION Novel is one kind of fiction that is created by human. Fiction is not reflected and understood easily. Novel provides some complex ideas that support reader's thought. For one thing, novel gives a deeper and better acknowledge about human life for it has an ability in showing human affairs in depth and fully. The second reason is that "novels are long words with great amount of details in every page" (Peck, 1988:103). Detail is not created to make the reader confused but it helps to recognized how complicate the reality is the character has to face. Thus far, it is important to take details into account before the reader makes any kinds of judgments for they present all complicating facts (Peck, 1988:103). Complication and details in novel have also aroused the interest to write the thesis analyzing novel. The last reason is relative to the function of novel, which is to give enjoyment and understanding to the readers. This idea is in accordance with Perrine's, that to have a convincing claim on our attention fiction must yield not only enjoyment but also understanding (1959:3). Besides those, Lukacs sees the emergence of novel as the major modern genre is in as the result of a change in the structure of human consciousness; the development of the novel reflects modification in man's way of defining himself in relation to all categories of existence (Bernstein, 1984:14). He also defines novel as dialectic of form-giving and dialectic of interpretation and representation (Bernstein, 1984:18). Fiction has close relation to men and masculinity. The idea of fiction secretly depicted unusual phenomenon that happen in world that is set to be real. The understanding of masculinity is simultaneously broad and narrow in scope. According to Burrm (2002), "broad and scope because we are dealing at once with a characterization of masculinity that must obtain over a population and narrow because any conception must be specific to each individual within that population". Putting it into other simpler words, masculinity is a concept of being a man, owned by each male but besides by his own self, it is very much affected by the perspective and beliefs of the society. Thus, the definition of masculinity above is to make clear that in order to have a good understanding or to do an analysis of masculinity, it cannot be treated as something completely general. Man with tremendous character often compared to the women who have always considered weaker. But not all men possess the nature of masculinity which is recognized as the nature of men. Not the least of men with male gender but does not have a masculine nature. In masculinities R.W. Connell notes that "Masculinity is not an idea in the head, or a personal identity. It is also extended in the world, merged in organized social relation" (1995:29). Social environment may be forming nature of man that is growing, or to establish the nature of masculinity. Fully educated man by a woman without knowing a father can make a man with a gentle nature like a woman or it could also make men lose their natural masculine and become feminine, or could be called feminine-male. Early thinking often assumed that this division is based on underlying innate differences in traits, characteristics and temperaments of males and females. In the other context, measure of femininity or masculinity was often used to diagnose what were understood as problems of basic gender identification, for example, feminine-males or masculine-females (Burke and Stets, 1980:998). Actually masculinity doesn't always exist in male body, but there is also possibility that masculinity can also appear in female body (Halberstam, 1998:16). In Encyclopedia of Sex and Gender, Freud concludes that each individual is psychologically bisexual: Masculine and feminine traits exist in everyone. In addition to resisting a unitary construction of masculinity, Freud's position on bisexuality firmly divides biology from gender. The feminine man and the masculine woman become combinations of biology and gender that are not possible but are likely (2007:969). Story about men who is 'different' is not just fiction in novels or another written story. Their existence that are 'different' appears in the story came from real life that is really happening around us in this era. Now is the time where men asked about cosmetics, and women began to love football. This behavior does not seem normal shortly. But as said above, that is not as easy as it determines men are not masculine, or women not feminine based on what they do. Men still considered masculine even though they asked about cosmetics and start to wear cosmetics. Women also still be feminine even though they started liking football which is synonymous with the activities of men. This statement confirms that what someone does not merely explain his/her personality. Topic of masculine and feminine are still ambiguous around us is interesting for a deepened understanding. This thesis focuses deeper understanding of the nature of masculine men. Men are identical with the leaders and rulers were often highlighted its existence. Masculine itself is a natural thing that should be owned by men, although men are men discussed a 'different'. Men still have a distinct masculine traits compared with women who have the possibility to have a masculine nature. Stephenie Meyer is an American talented writer who has written Twilight Saga novels. Stephenie Meyer has a special feature in every novel she wrote. Although each novel she writes emerge from different inspirations, his novels always have a special theme, the theme of heroic. The rescue action of the loved ones by the main character in the novel. Super hero in her novel both men and women, has a masculine feature that support their heroic actions. The twilight saga, clearly told Edward's heroic action saves Bella; within the host, also told how Wanda rescue her loan body and last human family remains from the attack souls which wanted to dominate the earth. Masculinity perfectly blended in her novels. In addition to having a strong masculine themes that is arranged in each novel, the work of Stephenie Meyer has advantages that make this thesis chose one of her novels as the material. novel by Stephenie Meyer has always been a New York Times Best Seller List, and won the British Book Award. Her novels also became very well known, the series has sold over 100 million copies worldwide in 37 languages. In 2008, the four books of the series Claimed the top four spots on USA Today's year-end bestseller list, making Meyer the first author Stepehenie to ever Achieve this feat, as well as being the bestselling author of the year. The Twilight novels held the top four spots on USA Today's year-end list again in 2009. The fame of novels by Stephenie Meyer, continues in its adoption into the movie. These films made the works of Stephenie Meyer's increasingly popular, for those who have never read the novel. The success also achieved in every novel that was filmed. Differences in masculine theme in the novel Twilight Saga New Moon from other novel lies in the character of Edward addressing what is happening in his life. The peak where Edward feels really have to leave Bella, not because no longer loves Bella, but because he loves Bella too much. Edward is more concerned with Bella's safety than his selfishness defend Bella. In the Twilight Saga other novels, Edward looks so masculine and willing to do anything for Bella. In the Twilight novel, Edward saves Bella from nomadic vampires, James, and suck Bella's blood from James's toxins so Bella did not turn into a vampire. In Eclipse, the third sequel in the Twilight Saga, Edward and his family are willing to fight against the new born vampires to save Bella from revengeful of Victoria, James's spouse. And in the last sequel from Twilight Saga, Breaking Dawn, Edward fought the Volturi to protect his family. In these novels clearly told that Edward was so brave to defend his family, the people he loves, Edward was willing to do anything, survive and retain the beloved ones. While in New Moon, Edward seems leave Bella so easy, left her without protection and do not seem willing to love Bella anymore. Look different attitude taken, but this difference is not a reason in determining the nature of masculine Edward. Stephenie Meyer's New Moon is the second sequel of Twilight saga. As the information above about Edward's different attitude in the New Moon, makes this sequel is interesting to be studied. All the novels by Stephenie Meyer are full of masculinity theme, but the theme of masculinity in New moon different from her other novels. The title of New Moon refers to the darkest phase of the lunar cycle, indicating that New Moon is about the darkest time of protagonist Bella Swan's life due to Edward's masculinity features. This novel tells Bella's story of the lost love of her life since Edward left her. Edward is masculine character who became the main character in the novel twilight saga, disappeared in order to save Bella. Edward's masculine attitude made him look not masculine. But based on the previous statement, that the determination of one's masculinity is not merely determined by their behavior, because surely there is a reason behind everything he does. Edward has different masculinity in this novel. According to the brief story in background of the study that gives explaination of masculinity in the novel, it appears two questions as the problems: 1. What are masculinity features found in Edward Cullen character in Stephenie Meyer's New Moon? 2. What is the impact of Edward Cullen's masculinity on his life in Stephenie Meyer's New Moon? METHOD In order to give factual explanation on the subject mentioned on the previous chapter, this chapter would deliberately mention what are the related literatures that will be used to analyze the problems. These related literatures are the tools to analyze the subject matter later on the third chapter. MASCULINITY The Definition of Masculinity Masculinity as a word, as it is defined in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary (1995), is the quality of being masculine, whereas the term masculine is defined as "having the qualities or appearance consider to be typical of or appropriate for men" (Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, 1995). In general, masculine is something that is related to Virility of men. but masculine and men are not forever united. Masculine is a feature, while the male is gender. Because masculine is feature of the human, masculine feature may arise in men and women. Meanwhile, in masculinities R.W. Connell notes that "Masculinity is not an idea in the head, or a personal identity. It is also extended in the world, merged in organized social relation" (1995:29). According to Terman and Miles , in western culture, stereotypically, men are active, competent, rational, independent and adventurous; while women are passive, less competent, irrational, dependent and unadventurous. Early thinking often assumed that this division is based on underlying innate differences in traits, characteristics and temperaments of males and females. In the other context, measure of femininity or masculinity were often used to diagnose what were understood as problems of basic gender identification, for example, feminine-males or masculine-females (Burke and Stets, 1980:998). Furthermore, Halberstam argues that there is a possibility that masculinity can also appear in female body (1998:16). The possibility of masculinity and femininity that could be mixed together is strengthened by Freud argument in Encyclopedia of Sex and Gender, Freud concludes that each individual is psychologically bisexual: masculine and feminine traits exist in everyone. In addition to resisting a unitary construction of masculinity, Freud's position on bisexuality firmly divides biology from gender. The feminine man and the masculine woman become combinations of biology and gender that are not only possible but are likely. (2007:969). It is known that femininity and masculinity are not innate but are based upon social and cultural conditions. Characteristics of masculinity according to Andler, it can be described as a strong individual figure, firm, brave, and similarity. Individual who has a masculine gender have an independent nature, steadfast, strong spirit of curiosity, self confidence and courage to take a risk (1993:48). GENDER In Encyclopedia of Sex and Gender, Judith Roof defines gender as a condition of being female or male, but also includes the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex into its meaning. Furthermore, gender may additionally refer to an individuals sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture (2007:628). According to Jolly, Gender is different with sex. She argues that gender refers to the array of socially constructed roles and relationships, personality traits, attitude, behaviors, values, relative power and influence that society ascribes to the two sexes on a differential basis. Whereas biological sex is determined by genetic and anatomical characteristics, gender is an acquired identity that is learned, changes over time, and varied widely within and across cultures. Gender is relational and refers not simply to women or men but to the relationship between them (2006:3). GENDER STEREOTYPES Parke argues that a gender stereotype is a predetermined set of attitudes and behaviors that is believed to be typical of all men or women. Stereotypes about gender assume that there are in fact only two gender: male and female (2007:622). This definition also strengthened by Linda's argument that defines a gender stereotype as beliefs about the psychological traits and characteristics as well as the activities about masculinity and femininity (1976:168). According to Parke, this idea of opposites has resulted in gender stereotypes that are an exaggeration of the real physical, social, and psychological differences between the sexes. Feminine traits include being emotional, submissive, weak, cooperative artistic, and home-focused; masculine traits include being rational, unemotional, aggressive, competitive, strong, scientifically, of mathematically skilled, and career-focused. In many cultures masculine traits traditionally have been valued as superior to feminine ones (2007:622). GENDER ROLES According to Roof, gender roles are sets of culturally defined behaviors such as masculinity and femininity. In most cultures this binary division of gender is roughly associated with biological sex-male or female. There is much variation within the categories of the masculine and the feminine, both in terms of the possible presentation of gender and the tasks deemed appropriate to each gender. There is also great variation in the degree of relation between gender and sex within and among cultures. Some cultures understand gender as only loosely linked to biology and assume gender is an effect of and flows naturally from biological sex (2007:616-617). Robert Brannon argues that the male gender role or female gender role is like a script that men and women follow to fulfill their appropriate parts in acting masculine or feminine (Linda, 1976:168). He adds, the best way to understand gender is to understand it as a process of social presentation. Because gender roles are delineated by behavioral expectation and norms, once individuals know those expectation and norms, the individual can adopt behaviors that project the gender he/she wishes to portray (Linda, 1976:169) John Money invents the term gender roles to mark a distinction between behaviors related to one's biological sex and those related to social practices and individual gender identity. The notion that masculine roles and feminine roles, while related to biological sex, are not determined by differences in male and female genitalia had a significant impact both on the historical interpretation of social orderings and on understandings of traditional gender roles (2007:618). TRADITIONAL GENDER ROLE Traditional gender roles cast men as rational, strong, protective, and decisive; they cast women as emotional (irrational), weak, nurturing, and submissive. These gender roles have been used very successfully to justify inequities, which still occur today, such as excluding women from equal access to leadership and decision-making positions (in the family as well as in politics, academia, and the corporate world), paying men higher wages than women that they are not fit for careers in such areas as mathematics and engineering (Tyson, 2006:85). Kristina Quynn explains that traditional gender roles furthermore appear the structural binarism of gender roles producing an artificial opposition in the qualities imagined to belong to each gender. If males are smart, females must be less smart. If males are strong, females are weak. This binary system sustains the oppression of women as an inferior class of beings and keeps most people from realizing their full feminist have observed, to justify and maintain the male monopoly of positions of economic, political, and social power. Traditional gender roles have a great deal with patriarchy system that continually exerts forces undermining women's self-confidence and assertiveness, then points to the absence of these qualities as proof that women are naturally, and therefore correctly, self-effacing and submissive (Tyson, 2006:86-87). GENDER IDENTITY Jaime Hovey defines gender identity as the differing cultural and social roles that men and women inhabit, as well as the ways in which individuals experience those roles, both internally and in terms of the ways they present themselves to the world through their manner of dress, behavior, physical comportment, and so forth. Both distinguish between a person's biological sex (male or female) and gender identity (masculine or feminine) (2007:614). Furthermore, Schaefer defines gender identity as the self-concept of a person as being male or female. Gender identity is one of the first and most far-reaching identities that human being learns (1992:325). From sociological perspective, gender identity involves all the meanings that are applied to oneself on the basis of one's gender identification. In turn, these self-meaning are a source of motivation for gender-related behavior (Burke and Stats, 1980:996). A person with a more masculine identity should act more masculine, that is, engage in behaviors whose meanings are more masculine such as behaving in a more dominant, competitive and autonomous manner. It is not the behaviors themselves that are important, but the meaning by those behaviors. SEVEN MAIN CHARACTERISTIC OF MASCULINITY ACCORDING TO MACIONIS Dominant. Dominance means that the disposition of an individual to assert control that can influence other's action (Cambridge, Third edition). People with dominant characteristic also have a great power or authority to support them (Lehman, 2001:11). They try to dominate in all activities and behave as if they are best judge. They always want each word they say not to be argued. Brave. Bravery is the ability to confront fear, pain, risk/danger, uncertainty or intimidation (Cambridge, third edition). It also can be defined as the ability to control fear from danger, illness, and the uncomforted circumstances and feelings (Oxford, Third edition). According to Lehman, a brave person doesn't always free from fear, but they can suppress the fear until they can handle and control the dear, not as the contrary, fear controls them (2001:10). Rational. Being rational can be defined as the ability for showing reason than emotion (Oxford, third edition). According to Connell, rational people are someone who can see a problem logically. He adds, they will make a strong effort to determine all the significant fact necessary to make a particular decision before that decision is made into reality. They also have capability for considering the bad effects and the good effects before deciding a decision (1995:46). Intelligent. Intelligence is the ability to reason, plan, solve problem, think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly and learn from experience (Cambridge, third edition). It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending the surrounding (Lehman, 2001:19). In short, being intelligent is being clever. Analytical. Being analytical is having ability in solving problem based on good analysis (Connell, 1995:39). He adds, analytical people usually see a problem from various perspectives (1995:40). In addition, according to Lehman, they also examine the problem closely and thoroughly (2001:15). The analysis is also equipped by several data and factual information. So, the result of analysis is credible and accountable. Aggressive. Being aggressive is characterized by making an all-out effort to win or succeed (Oxford, Third edition). According to Connell, aggressive people usually behave in very forceful and determined way in order to succeed. They are also characterized by being assertive, bold and energetic. Furthermore, the are brave to take a high risk to realize their ambition (1995:32). Independent. Being independent is having ability to not rely other in support, care or fund (Cambridge, Third edition). Connell argues that independent people have freedom of dependence and exemption from reliance. EDWARD CULLEN MASCULINITY FEATURES Edward Cullen masculinity features are really influenced by his family background. The way he was born in a family in the middle of the war, formed him into a masculine character of man. Characteristic of men who have to go to war and women who should be at home, taking care of family, made Edward has strong masculine features. His father was involved in the war at that time and his mother was a housewife. Gender roles in Edward's family gave him big influence to Edward characteristic. This condition bring Edward planned to enter the military at the age of 18. Edward's decision to joined military showed that he would take risk to prosperous his family and country. Edward hard determination to join in the war is not only a necessity but also to convey that he took the decision to protect his family, to bring peace to his family and his country. Edward's protective feature proof that he would take all risk that might happen. His protective feature made him would be self-sacrifice for the salvation of a loved one. This family background had formed Edward so that he prefer save Bella with leave Bella alone. In short, Edward seemed to act out of selfness to save the one he loved. Edward's mother who was at that time perceived as more morally upright than men. considered to be the backbone of familial morals, and added to this was the belief that females were more religious than males. This is largely because women composed the greatest number of church attendants, although men dominated the roles of religious leaders. Woman who is also a housewife taking care of children at home have a big role in the formation of her child character. Edward's mother strong religious background made Edward perfect educated in religious knowledge and this makes Edward has more intelligence in response to religious issues. This can be seen from the conversation of Bella and Carlisle about Edward's opinion in turning Bella into a vampire like him. There anything might still be life after death for creature like him is his worried about the choice to change Bella into a vampire. Edward analyzed so deeply that finding the answer of his existence, which makes him reluctant to change Bella and experienced bad thing according to him, losing soul. By the time his family had formed him, Edward grew up in different way. His fate become a vampire, saved him from Spanish Influenza that was epidemic in his place. Edward has grown with some character of masculinity that based on how his family has formed him first. According to Andler one of masculinity characteristic is strong individual figure that is make someone has an independent nature (1993:48). Edward has independent nature which make him has individual figure that as result of wartime education by his family. The phenomenon of his family background affects Edward's characteristic, how he faces his life. He was not hurried find a mate. Edward masculinity characteristics of man are dominant, brave, rational, intelligent, analytical, aggressive and independent. Edward's dominant feature showed when he decided to end his relationship with Bella unilaterally. Another feature of Edward masculinity is brave. According to Lehman, brave person doesn't always free from fear, but they can suppress the fear until they can handle and control the fear, not as the contrary, fear controls them (2001:10), Edward did so. Edward took actions that prove he has controlled fear around him. Edward's bravery had appeared in his defense of Bella in front of the Volturi when he wanted to cancel his request to die because he thought Bella had died falling off a cliff. Become rational has become the absolute masculinity feature qualities that should be have by men. Where they are taught to be have the ability to show what the reason than using their emotion. As stated by Connell that a rational person is one who can look at the problem logically. He also added that they will make a strong effort to determine all the significant fact necessary to make a particular decision before the dicision is made into reality. They are also able to see the good and bad effects before making a decision. (1995:46). Man rationality commonly influenced by brain that is thinking about reason and affect logically. Edward rational feature often seem appear in the novel,the moment when Edward will not let Bella bear the danger he caused in another day. Edward has stated that he won't to live without Bella. Due to this, Edward's rational trait is appear. Edward planed to provoke the Volturi to kill him if something happens to Bella that because of his actions. Live more than a hundred years make Edward Cullen has a very long time for get an education both formal and non-formal. Edward has made it beyond the human experience of human life in general. Twice graduated from medical school and several other education is his educational background. Edward Cullen also told to have the ability to read the minds of everyone around him and that was a few miles from him except Bella. Based on his educational background, Edward has intelligent character that is being able to make reason, plan, solve problem, understanding complex ideas, and learn from experience. According to Lehman intelligent is not just about book learning, a narrow academic skill, or test-taking smarts. (2001:19). In short, being intelligent is being clever. Edward can be identified as an analytical man. It is also possibly to be proved when he was watching Romeo and Juliet movie and knew how easy human to die. Edward was envy to Romeo who is easy to die rather than him. For him as a vampire who has marble skin that is so hard and unbreakable, death is something that seems impossible. Based on the whole story of Twilight Saga, Edward becomes very ambitious to Bella. Since the first, Edward is so ambitious to own Bella, both her blood and her body. Bella's smell was different and Edward instinct of vampire wanted to taste it, but Cullens role that would never drink human blood limited Edward and make his feeling to Bella become ambitious in attention to keep her safe. Edward want to make Bella safe from everything, from his self also. According to Connell (1995:32) who is said that aggressive people usually forceful behave and determined way in order to succeed. Aggressive people are also characterized by being assertive, bold and energetic. Furthermore, they are brave to take risk to realize their ambition. Aggressive people that described have ambition to be reached, and Edward ambition is keeping Bella safe. Edward succeeds to make Bella save by force himself keep in control in physic relationship with Bella. Bella's humanity is Edward reason to force himself in order to save Bella. Bella's human body is so weak compare to vampire body. Edward aggressive characteristic can be identified when Edward and Bella launch their sexual aggression. Although they were in love each other, but Edward stayed in control in showing his aggression to Bella. Refers to the meaning of independent itself that is not dependent to others, do not need others support and do not controlled by others, it can be determined that Edward have a dominant independent feature. Which can be seen in the novel, Edward depend on the existence of Bella in this world indeed, but he had controlled himself not to have to make Bella always by his side. The existence of Bella is more than enough; at least he got Bella still alive, still human. Either that Bella was on his side or not, but the existence of Bella in this world is the most important to him, and greatly affect to his life and death. Edward has joined into social life using his characteristic and based on gender identity. According to the theory of gender identity, Jaime Hovey stated that defines gender identity as cultural and social roles differences of men and women a place to stay. How to dress and behave is a way to distinguish between masculine and feminine in gender identity theory (2007:614). Edward has such as a prince charming characteristics that clearly proves that Edward is a masculine figure. He retains some of traditional mindset and dated patterns of speech. Edward Cullen's latest mindset proves that true love still exists. Girl's obsession about prince charming is undeniable and Edward has prince charming features that are imagined by every girl so it becomes Edward masculinity feature. Girls are not longer dreaming of the perfect man, they no longer dreamt of brave knights, rich lords, soldier of charismatic pop stars. Some people think the modern view of true love is deteriorated. However, modern romance has been morphed enough be our culture that Edward Cullen could be declares the next prince charming. Like the traditional prince charming, Edward does have super-human strength, is physically attractive, and defends his woman when necessary. Another reason why Edward latest mindset is prove that true love still exist is that he denies part of himself to be with Bella. Many girls dream of having this affect on today's men, who are so often non-committal and emotionally turbulent. Most girls consistently find themselves ignoring the warnings of friends and believing that a man will change for the right girl, and they obviously think the right girl is always themselves. Girls want to believe that they can be the inspiration for man's change toward becoming a committed, loving, and unashamed companion. Edward Cullen as prince charming may be 'step down' in the history of princes but he is reality of our changing world. Girls will take the moral ambiguity and mysteriousness of men like Edward with the hope that they will be transformed by love to become faithful, loving men. Love's first kiss is no longer coming from a prince on a white horse, but instead from a man that lives in the shadow: a man who may or may not deny the dark secret of inadequacy, sinfulness, and emotional struggle. Edward character looks ancient when should be compared to the male characters in general now. This can be seen from the way he treats Bella. Bella's self argues that Edward is old schooltype. Premarital sex is not Edward's seeking election. Edward chose to marry Bella first before deciding to have sex with her. Responsibilities and capabilities such as a masculine man. THE IMPACT OF EDWARD CULLEN'S MASCULINITY IN HIS LIFE Possessed nature and character always have an impact on someone individual's own life. Good and bad effects will always appear accompany the selected action. Edward Cullen as the main character in the New Moon novel which clearly have a masculine features in his life. Masculinity features of Edward Cullen influence in his life, made him get good and bad effects of any actions taken based on the features he owns. The affect of Edward Cullen's masculinity his life is being strong individual and charismatic man. His strong individual made him become a strong person and dominant. With his entire masculinity feature Edward Cullen become a charismatic man who has good looks and behaves. Edward Cullen's strong individual is the impact of his masculinity feature. His individual feature allows him to be a strong person to stand alone and have complete control over his life. Edward Cullen is able to take a final decision on his own without the other influence him, even someone he loved the most. Edward Cullen decides to leave Bella, though Bella had begged him to stay and his family reminds him that Edward and Bella are dependent on each other. But Edward still on his decision and implementing actions from what he has taken into consideration. In addition to the moment when Edward left Bella, Edward was also a strong individual when he was apart with Bella. Edward stay away from the people living around him. Edward went away from Bella, also from his family, trying to stand without relying on anyone. Edward makes him capable; did not bother anyone else in the situation that is actually broke his heart. Edward dominant feature impacts on the pain caused by a unilateral decision that he took by himself, which leaves Bella. Edward pushed his opinion about life to Bella, where he take dominant posisition in arguing with Bella. Even Bella begged him not to leave, he pushed his opinion which he tought the best for their relationship. His dominant character leads him become brave in order to take responbility of his decision of his dominant character. His dominant character make Edward must have courage to bear the decisions he took. Edward survived bear the pain, forcing himself to be strong, for the safety of Bella. His dominant and brave feature has affect his life by make him suffer because of his own decision. Edward exceptional understanding of the life that he was facing very well because of intelligence and vast knowledge he has because his strong individual has been leading him. With the intelligence that he had, Edward being able to solve problems in his life. Edward be able to make excuses, find a way out of the problem and understand the complex understanding of life and existence, such as the definition of intelligence that uttered by Lehman (2001:19). Because of his intelligence, Edward was able to infer how his life without Bella. So he went to the Volturi decide to commit suicide as a solution to the problem. Edward has over-protective feature as the impact of his strong individual character. Edward should be forced to suffer by his own decision. Because of his strong individual character, Edward becomes overprotective to Bella. His strong understanding wont be defeated by anything, that's why Edward pushed his opinion to himself that human soul is pure. Edward reluctantly had to leave Bella in order to save Bella. Edward is very protective on Bella's soul, Edward really did not want Bella lost souls like him. Bella's safety has become the most important thing in his life from the beginning he met Bella, so anything that might be dangerous for Bella would blocked by him as much as possible. Edward would act as much as possible to protect her even if it cost with his life forever. Beside of being protective, being dominant also make Edward become aggressive. As presented by Connell is being individuals who are willing to work hard to achieve success, it is clear already done Edward and prove that he successfully achieved what he wanted. Edward is able to control himself, though with very hard for reject Bella's invitation. Edward goal is to keep Bella safe, and he struggled for the goal, and Edward was succeeded by his efforts. Edward Cullen's masculinity affect him to be charismatic. Edward became a men with very masculine appearance and charming. Edward is a masculine individual based on how he looks and behaves. Edward also has good manners and polite in front of the people around him. This makes Edward liked people who are nearby. From the appearance of Edward, Bella is concluded that Edward is a masculine charming men. As explained earlier, that according to the theory of gender identity, masculine men has masculine well dressed, good manner and behavior. It can be proven through the description of Bella to Edward when Bella saw Edward in the first time. "The last was lanky, less bulky, with untidy, bronze-colored hair. He was more boyish than the others," (2006:06). Bella described Edward as the most handsome men in the Cullens member. And Edward polite quote proofed by his manner ask Charlie to invite Bella come join the Cullen to Bella's birthday party in his house. "Do you mind if I borrow Bella for the evening?" (2006:12). Edward masculinity impacts the woman remarks against him during his life. Edward is very masculine, handsome and charming like a prince obviously attract a lot of eyes to adore him. Edward character is very charming, beautiful face and good manners make him become the idol of many women during his lifetime. Many woman who want to be his spouse, including Bella. Everything's on Edward make Bella fall in love him unconditionally, irrevocably, even willing to die for him. So many women who admire Edward, but Edward just choose Bella who is finally become a vampire like him. "You can have my soul. I don't want it without you—it's yours already!" (2006:37). Edward's charming isn't only appear in his physicly appearance, but also in his personality. Edward masculinity affect to his personality in being wise. Being rational is being reasonable and being analytical is having ability to solve problem. In short, being rational and analytical is being wise. Being rational and analytical make Edward have a firm stance on what to believe. Edward is not easy to accept the opinions or stories from other people that he does not find the truth by his own. Edward would figure out by himself or ask the person concerned to ascertain the truth. His ability to analyze something also makes him able to read Bella's mind little bit. Bella is the only one exception in Edward's mind-reading abilities, but with Edward analytical skills, he was able to read a bit of what Bella will do then. Like when Alice saw Bella jumping off a cliff, Edward received the news of Rosalie, but Edward does not necessarily believe in the news. Edward tried to call Bella's home to ask what was going on. The other of Edward analyzing is to hide his property with Bella, to avoid Bella will remember later. Edward understood that this will not be able to make Bella forget him. Edward Cullen's masculinity impact in his life made him become a man that is strong and charismatic. His strong feature made him become a strong individual man that is dominant. His domination caused he become over protective and intelligent. Edward Cullen's charismatic feature formed him become a wise man that is good looks and behave. Edward's behave isn't only in his appearance but also in personality. CONCLUSION Based on the analysis of the previous chapter, the main character of Stephenie Meyer's New Moon, Edward Cullen is a masculine man. Family role become the base of Edward Cullen's characteristics that is shown in his personality. Then his characters become his background to live in his social life. So, everything he does based on his masculine characteristics put impacts to his life. Edward Cullen lived in the family in the middle of war time, well educated by his parents. The divided of family role by his parents, make Edward Cullen has well family background that could make him become masculine man. Well educated by his family, Edward Cullen has masculine characteristics such as dominant, brave, rational, intelligent, analytical, aggressive, and independent. Masculine characteristics of Edward Cullen lead him become gentlemen in his social life. Edward Cullen has good manner in dressed and behavior. Great family role education, masculine characteristics, and good manner are Edward Cullen masculinity verification. Everything always comes followed by its impact. So does Edward Cullen. Edward Cullen's masculinity also has impacts to his life. All of those masculine characteristics of Edward Cullen have affect to his life very well. With all those characteristics Edward Cullen becomes a figure of man that is strong individual and charismatic. Edward Cullen strong individual character made him become strong person that is dominant and smart. Edward Cullen's strong individual pushed him become smart because he has to have good reason in everything he decided. Strong individual also means that he bravery taking risk in his decision. Become charismatic man support by Edward Cullen's wise characteristics which are rational and analytical. Because of charismatic isn't always inner characteristic but also in appearance, Edward Cullen is charming man that is have good looks and behave. So, Edward Cullen is a masculine man that is formed by his family role that made him become that masculine in his social life. And his masculine characteristics have impacts to his life such as strong individual and charismatic. REFERENCES Bernstein, J.M. 1984. The Philosophy of the Novel: Lukacs, Marxism and the Dialectics of Form. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press. Brannon, Linda. 1976. Gender: Psychological Perspective. Massachusetts: Allyn and Bacon. Connell, R.W. 1995. Masculinities. Berkeley: University of California Press. Esplen, Emily and Jolly, Susie. 2006. Gender and Sex, Sussex: University of Sussex Press. Halberstm, Judith. 1998. Female Masculinity. London: Duke University Press. Lehman, Peter. 2001. Masculinity: Bodies, Movies, Culture, Ed. New York: Rouledge. Macionis, John. 1991. Sociology, Third Edition. New Jersey: Prentince-Hall, Inc. Malti-Douglas, Fedwa. 2007. Encyclopedia of Sex and Gender, New York: Macmillan Company. Peck, John and Coyle, Martin. 1988. "Novel" Literary Terms and Criticism. London:Macmillan. Perrine, Laurence. 1959. Story and Structure. New York: Harcourt Brace and World,Inc. Schafer, Richard T. and Lamm, Robert P. 1992. Sociology, Fourth Edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, Inc

Interview with Atillio and Robert Antonioni. Atillio is an attorney in Leominster, MA and Robert is a Massachusetts legislator. Topics include: The family restaurant business: Atillio's mother opened a pizza shop called Lazy A and then the Il Camino. Importance of education for the family. What the neighborhood was like when Atillio was a child. How the neighborhoods in Leominster have changed. Robert was elected to the Leominster city council in 1984 and then went on to become a state representative and senator. What it means to be Italian. Atillio's work as a lawyer in Leominster. ; 1 SPEAKER 1: [Unintelligible - 00:00:03] with the Center for Italian Culture at Fitchburg State College. It's Friday, January 25th, 2002. We're at the Offices of Atillio and Robert Antonioni, 42 Main Street in Leominster. So I'll ask both of you to um, just tell me your name just so I can… ATILLIO: Atillio Antionioni. ROBERT: I'm Robert – Robert A. Antonioni. SPEAKER 1: Okay, usually I interview people [unintelligible - 00:00:33] closer and then back to you. I was telling your father that I've interviewed a lot of people in your family, okay. So I got a lot of the history from your brother as far as your mother and the restaurant business and – and uh, I thought it would be interesting if you could just tell me your memories of that, um, not necessarily dates because I really have that but just your memory of uh, her opening the restaurants and – and cooking. I believe she began with pizza? ATILLIO: Yes. Yes, she did uh, prepare pizza for the various people at the uh, the Dupont Facility that is back of us down there on Lancaster Street and the business to get into. We used to drive through the center of Leominster at night and there was the – that was a line outside there and she always felt that if uh, they could do it, she could do it. And so uh, they did. They opened a restaurant down there on Lancaster Street, the Lazy A. It was lazy because they worked very long hours but uh, we did have the restaurant there. That was when I uh, back at college at Holy Cross. We, she commuted to school each day and then worked in the restaurant at night. My brother and I used to alternate nights there working in the restaurant, everything. We were chief-cooking, [bottle] washers. We would uh, help cook the food, prepare it, uh, uh, clean up. I mean if it's done in a restaurant, we did it. SPEAKER 1: I guess it's important to know there are reasons for that?2 ATILLIO: The long hours, it's enough to discourage anybody. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: Then we did that one 'bout a number of years there and uh, until my folks retired. But uh, they were out of the business for five years or so, and my mother was always itching to get back in. So they built the El Camino Restaurant down on Central Street – sold the Lazy A, which is now known as the Gondola, sold it to the same people the El Camino that we sold it to. SPEAKER 1: Oh. ATILLIO: So that was extremely important to my mother. Unfortunately, she had to leave school early and go to work. And she was just [unintelligible - 00:02:54] felt that education was extremely important so that she's determined that we were going to go to school. There was no question about that. SPEAKER 1: And idea of when you were in high school, what would a day be like if – well, actually she didn't open up the Lazy A until you were in college. Is that what you said? ATILLIO: Till I graduated from high school. And the Lazy A was opened, I think, in the spring of 1948. After that time, however, we – father used to work at the DuPont. And he would work the 4-12 shift, I mean, because that paid a little money. And at that time, we were – she was also cooking pizzas at home that we would deliver to the Foster, to the cafeteria at the Foster Grand company. And so before I went to school in the morning, we would deliver pizzas there at the Foster Grand and then go to school. So when I was… SPEAKER 1: And when did you study? ATILLIO: Oh, in the afternoon and evenings. Well, I worked in the afternoon. I worked at the A&P. So we worked every afternoon then, but at night, we would study. It was always important to my folks and we did it. SPEAKER 1: Now was it only you and your brother in the family?3 ATILLIO: No, I have two sisters. Margaret and Margaret's husband own the [Volero] Insurance Agency. He passed away several years ago, and she sold it after that. And my sister Janie is [unintelligible - 00:04:31] thirty years, doing accounting work for them. SPEAKER 1: What was life like as a child? Can you tell me about the neighborhood that you lived in? ATILLIO: It was a good neighborhood. Life, I think, was much better for us than for many other families. My mother was an extremely hard worker. She knew how to stretch things considerably so that – I recall going to school during the depression there. There were many other children that weren't well-dressed as well as they could be and so forth, but we always had decent clothes. My mother made a lot of them. We lived on [unintelligible - 00:05:16] Avenue at that time. We had a large yard there, and we had – always had a large vegetable garden. There were fruit trees there and my mother would can all types of vegetables and fruits and things of that nature. So actually, I always thought we lived very well as compared to a lot. SPEAKER 1: Now when you would work in the afternoon, were you expected to put, let's say, the money on the table? ATILLIO: Oh, yes. The money was turned over to my folks. We got spending money, of course, but we turn the money. It was saved and [unintelligible - 00:05:54] so forth. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: I mean they were never using it to – for daily expenses, I'm sure of that. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: I mean they didn't confide in us. That's just the way everything went, but they had to save money in order to send us to school. SPEAKER 1: What kinds of leisure activities were you involved in?4 ATILLIO: In those days, we did a lot of visiting, obviously, because you didn't have any television. It was visiting with relatives and friends and playing with other children and so forth. And my father's club had an outing every year at Sima Park at Fitchburg, which was a big event and so forth. We go on picnics. We went on many of picnic at the [unintelligible - 00:06:40] Park. It was very enjoyable. But mainly, it was visiting with relatives and friends. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm, were you living in a predominantly Italian neighborhood? ATILLIO: Oh, no. We used to call it the League of Nations that was – there were Italian people there, but there were Irish, German, French –there was everybody. SPEAKER 1: At Longwood Avenue? ATILLIO: Yes. SPEAKER 1: So is it safe to say that you had friends of all ethnic race? ATILLIO: Oh, yes, absolutely, absolutely. There's always somebody around there that, you know, different people, obviously most of the relatives, well, all the relatives, will tag in but friends and so forth with everyone. My mother worked at the DuPont previously, and there were a lot of French-speaking women there and so forth and she learned to speak French working in the factory, so that she could speak… SPEAKER 1: How did as children, how did you really identify your differences? ATILLIO: With regard to ethnic backgrounds or whatever? SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: Oh, we never even thought about it. As I say, there was everybody there. We went out in the street and played. SPEAKER 1: Uh-huh. ATILLIO: And everybody played, regardless of what your background was. And there weren't any problems.5 SPEAKER 1: Oh, there wasn't any tension? ATILLIO: No. SPEAKER 1: Or dissension? ATILLIO: No, no, no. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: No. SPEAKER 1: How about your decision to go to Holy Cross? ATILLIO: Well, my brother was going there and so, you know, little did I know about schools and so forth but he went there so I figured out it would be a good place to go also. There was a question about whether I was going to be able to afford it and so forth. But they made it. SPEAKER 1: Now were you commuting with him and others? ATILLIO: Yes. I had an uncle from Fitchburg, actually, yes, who was the – you indicated that you would interview my Aunt [Doras] and Aunt [Via]. There was my Uncle Charlie who could tell from Fitchburg, and he was going to Holy Cross also. And he had a car and we commuted. There were other people from Leominster that he would pick up in the morning also and, you know, drive to [unintelligible - 00:08:55] after we had the restaurant then there was a little more money around and I had a car to drive back and forth in my senior year. SPEAKER 1: Now were you working at this time also? ATILLIO: Oh, yes. In the restaurant, yes, every other night. SPEAKER 1: Every other night? ATILLIO: Every other night, we worked in the restaurant, yes. But you had the study done during the day at school, during off hours and so forth. SPEAKER 1: What was Sundays like? ATILLIO: Well, when I was small, it was very enjoyable. There was always the big Sunday meal. And, of course, everybody go to church in 6 the morning and come back and there was a big Sunday dinner. And usually in the afternoon, it was lying around, taking it easy, going to visit people, listening to the radio and so forth. In later years, of course, once we had the restaurant, there was work because the restaurant was so full on Sunday. SPEAKER 1: Now was religion important to your family, your parents? ATILLIO: Absolutely. My mother was an extremely religious woman and we were on a very short leash; we didn't stray very far. She was, as I say, she was watching us all the time and brought up in a very religious manner, yes. SPEAKER 1: Were there any gender differences in the family as far as what the boys were expected to do and girls? ATILLIO: Well, not really because there were almost two families there. My brother and I, the girls didn't come along until 15 years later or something like that. And so it's just my brother and I, and we grew up doing housework and everything else. Before we had the restaurant, Saturday was a house-cleaning day, and we did dusting and everything else. And we washed dishes like everybody else. The girls came along at a later time but by then we just couldn't – just dropped the so-called family life because we're working. The girls didn't grow up the same way that my brother and I did because of my visiting and so forth so. But the restaurant was closed on Mondays, and every Monday, I would take the girls – SPEAKER 1: Oh, is education important for the girls to have too? ATILLIO: Oh, yes, yes. My sister Margaret went to Rivier College in New Hampshire, and Janie went to [unintelligible - 00:11:32], did a very good job with the [unintelligible - 00:11:35]. She's been with them a long time, she's almost… SPEAKER 1: Bob, are you bored yet, just sitting there? ROBERT: I'm all right.7 SPEAKER 1: So I thought maybe I could ask you about your childhood. First of all, were your grandparents alive? ROBERT: Yes, they were, yeah. SPEAKER 1: Can you tell me what you remember? ROBERT: My dad's mother didn't pass away until 1997. SPEAKER 1: Don't know, for some reason. The only thing that's been put there – I'm not sure why this is happening. ROBERT: Usually on Sundays… SPEAKER 1: I'm fine, but I'm trying to get in, if you can tell, as close as possible to – so never? ROBERT: Never. SPEAKER 1: You have had something to do with that or…? ROBERT: No, but I, you know, I could see that the hours there were really long, were very long. But no, it's not something I ever thought about up here in town, in Leominster. There were quite a few of us kids there so it was a busy place – a lot of children in the neighborhood too, so it was – well, I'd say we were all pretty much, you know… so, that's what I remember about that. ATILLIO: Well, in a sense it was that because the Oliviers have a French heritage and the [unintelligible - 00:12:55] were Irish and… ROBERT: Right. ATILLIO: We were [turning] to 22 children in those four households or five households, I mean… ROBERT: Well, that's probably true, I think growing, we didn't think so much about our heritage. It wasn't something that really… you know, we go to different churches, I suppose you could say, but that was it. ATILLIO: Well, in my day, of course, you had mostly the first generation… the parents were all immigrants. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.8 ATILLIO: And obviously they tended to live with other people of their own heritage as a street area. The French were all congregated in Plains. And then that was only because I think you tended to stay among the people that you know and you were comfortable with, so to speak, because you had – many parents spoke only their ethnic language. My grandmother could speak a little English, but not much. It was mainly Italian and she had been in this country for many years. She was 99 and a half and still speaking Italian. And if you go down to, down on the hill, there'll be older people that are still speaking French all the time. So it was just – it isn't like today where everybody's just spread out and has gone everywhere. You tended to stay among the people that you knew and have been and so forth. SPEAKER 1: Is there a – a still… ATILLIO: Some of the old timers, but some of the old ones, yes. And my wife delivers communion to elderly in [unintelligible - 00:14:37] so forth, and some of them only speak Italian – prays in Italian so that she could say the prayers with them. And that was so they knew what to [unintelligible - 00:14:46], not too much. SPEAKER 1: And did your parents –? ATILLIO: Yes, but not always no. No, no – mainly with them it was English. But obviously they knew Italian very well because they were born in Italy and came to this country. But in the home and most of the time, 90 percent of the time, they were speaking English. If they visited other people, they would speak Italian to them depending on, you know, who they were. Those days a lot of the people, the people are a lot more comfortable with their native language. So they – there's not too many of those. SPEAKER 1: Italians? ATILLIO: No, no, no. SPEAKER 1: English?9 ATILLIO: We spoke English all the time. But they never spoke Italian in the house to us. Well, they tried to teach us Italian, but Mother bought books and we took lessons and things of that nature but… ROBERT: Yes, I think we – I think my folks expressed that with us certainly and you know, we would watch very much of, a factor. Yes. ROBERT: Well, I'd set an example I suppose and just seemed more of a natural fit for me than any other … ATILLIO: Oh, there was really no good reason for it. After I graduated from Holy Cross, I went into the service. And when I get out of the service, I didn't really know what I wanted to do and law school. You know I said not like being [unintelligible - 00:16:21], so I went to law school. It was that simple. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: Oh. SPEAKER 1: Mentor? ATILLIO: No, because I didn't even know any lawyers in those days. I didn't know one, graduated from law school and started working. SPEAKER 1: That's pretty courageous, I think. ATILLIO: It's been a good life, I've enjoyed it. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: Yes. [Angst] instead of leaders, there's no question about that from the way I used to practice, but it's enjoyable. I think when he was in college, he indicated that he wanted to become a lawyer also and I do law schools. I have a daughter who's an attorney. She graduated from [unintelligible - 00:17:09] in nursing and she practiced nursing for several years, but then decided she wanted to go to Arlington and [unintelligible - 00:17:24] John was in Bentley and Christina's wished to stay. All gone to school, but so when you talk about education, yes, we felt it was an… SPEAKER 1: You're the first Italian in Leominster and Fitchburg to graduate from law school?10 ATILLIO: No, oh no. No, there was a – in Leominster there was a Gene Oliver, he was the – when I started he was helping [unintelligible - 00:17:53] and then he was probably in his sixties then. Johnsberg, Paul San Clementi, a number of different Italians as attorneys – many, many more so since then, but they're all over the place now. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: Hmm, you know… SPEAKER 1: What were Sundays like growing up? ROBERT: Some days, everyone was around. It was a family day, you know, we'd usually go to, have a big lunch at home. At times we'd have relatives that would visit or we would go there, maybe – I'm guessing maybe once a month or something. But it was a time that we'd spent at home really. That was my recollection. We could play outside, but it was more of a family day, to be honest. That's what I remember. SPEAKER 1: What are Sundays like? ROBERT: Sundays are a day to relax, you know. You go to church in the morning probably… Well, we don't do that as much. My wife Priscilla and I will spend the day together, because work's in Boston and we don't see each other until, you know, seven, eight o'clock at night usually. And Saturdays, I typically work for at least half the day. So, Sunday we'll probably spend some time together or maybe take a ride or… My Uncle Ed was a fellow who was married to my Aunt Margaret; he had been a city councilor. And I think I always knew growing up that politics would be an interesting thing, like the fun thing to do. I always thought that that would be something I would try, be something I could do on my own so, I decided to run for the Leominster city council. It was a [unintelligible - 00:19:47] after I got out of law school, I graduated in '83 and I, city council in I guess it was '84 because I was elected on the city council. It wasn't really after I got out of 11 law school that I ran for office. And then state representative in Leominster, Angelo [Pacuzzi] passed away. He had been there for, passed away. It was an election year and I decided to run with a number of other politicians, and I was lucky enough to – we have the senate seat opened up and I ran for that too, so that's how it… SPEAKER 1: Um… ROBERT: I think that when Angelo Pacuzzi passed away, my Uncle Ed might have said to me "Gee, you should think about that." And I had to do it, you know. And he was, he was very helpful to me, I couldn't have done it without him. He had been a reporter at Leominster years earlier and he always enjoyed politics too. And he actually helped Angelo Pacuzi when he ran for the seat, you know 15 or 17 years earlier. And there was another guy by the name of [Chockie Antonucci], who was a firefighter, retired firefighter in town. I mean, Chock and Ed, you know, they really helped me out a lot. I never raced – they were actually involved in both of them. They were involved in the city council race, the state representative race and then the senate race; they were great, you know. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: I think so. I mean, I think that the ethnic factor certainly helped in Leominster, no question because, as my dad said there are it's a big [unintelligible - 00:21:22], and I think that that is a – from a politician's standpoint, the ethnic vote is still important and people, particularly those who are older, are certainly willing to consider someone of their heritage. Ethnic factor is a big thing, sure, even today. ATILLIO: I remember the incidents and so forth with all the happenings, yes. We were in Leominster at the time so, you know, we didn't take that much interest, as they would in Fitchburg. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm.12 ATILLIO: But in those days, he mentioned Chock Antonucci and Buck became a fireman. And a big party down there, because I am going on the, into the fire department; there weren't many around even beforehand or something like that, and so this department had a number of Italians. As I say it today, nobody looks at those things anymore. And I think it's for the better, obviously, because it shouldn't make any difference who you are; you know, as long as you are qualified, you should be in these positions. But again in those days, there were close-knit groups than there are today. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. What does it mean to you to be Italian? ROBERT: I had my identity. You know, it's a connection by, you know, cousins and, you know, part of your identity. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: You know, special thing, it is. And it's something you can, well, like I think I would want my children to appreciate. Oh I think you, you learn as you get older that there are people that share a different background with you and you come to appreciate [unintelligible - 00:23:10] that too. And as a legislator, you travel around a bit, you meet a lot of different people from – that's a – so you begin to, I think you appreciate the differences in people, too, that you know otherwise; it gives you a lot of perspective. SPEAKER 1: Now… ROBERT: Actually my wife is half Italian. SPEAKER 1: Is she? ROBERT: Yes, her grandparent – Boston, believe it or not, they were protestants. Her grandparents were Protestants when they came over. I think, Boston – the community in Boston were very supportive of grandparents. I imagine at some point they were Catholic in Italy, but that's just the way it was. And her grandfather was an Italian lawyer in Boston, and she's very proud of that.13 SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: And she's an attorney too. SPEAKER 1: Oh, not moving back to Leominster? ROBERT: Well, I think that being in politics – well, no really. Because when I graduated from law school, it was my intention to come back and work with my dad. So I intended on living here, but now being in politics and serving this area, Leominster, I expect that I'll continue to live in Leominster or the surrounding communities. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: Or one of the surrounding communities, sure. SPEAKER 1: I'd like to continue with… ATILLIO: Leominster, of course, has grown considerably. When I was in high school, there were only about 17,000 people in town. I remember one brochure describing it as a semi-agrarian community. We still had a lot of farms though, yes. Entire outlying areas were all farms here. SPEAKER 1: Uh-huh. ATILLIO: But now 30,000 people now. So the city has grown tremendously; there's no question about that. And the law profession, when I – so 17 lawyers in town and it must be 50 now anyway, tremendous increase in the number of attorneys all over the place now. And the law profession itself has changed. In those days, [aces and] things of that nature, now the actual in case that we take up 10 percent of the law work. You have so many more fields that have opened up. Environmental issue… SPEAKER 1: How is Leominster changed in just the period of time that, you know, you've grown up here and now as far as ethnic composition or is it – does it still have a hometown feel to it? ROBERT: You know that depends on who you ask. If you ask my wife, she'd tell you that it looks like something out of the '50s, you know. But I think it's changed quite a bit. You know, as my dad said, it's 14 really grown. And that I've, you know, come back to practice in the last 17 years or so, it's grown dramatically. I think that you've got many, many people coming from outside the city to live here and work because of its location on route two. And you got many of the developments that were built up on the farms and the old ski area here in town. They tend to be high-priced homes, at least as this area had known the housing scale. And you've got many people coming who didn't grow up here, who really had no connection to Leominster. And that's true, in fact, of the whole area here, the system migration west and because people are looking for affordable housing. Leominster's changed considerably. You know, I still think of it obviously as home. But it's a much busier place. I mean, you can't drive downtown on Saturday without waiting in traffic 10, 15 minutes. Friday afternoons as well, it gets awfully busy – sign of the times. SPEAKER 1: Now I wish [unintelligible - 00:27:24], did you have Italians coming in to be serviced or was it about… ATILLIO: No, not here. I never – quite frankly, we relied on the Italian community for my livelihood. I'm more – Italians, I think the one reason for that might be that my mother and father came from Fitch – Leominster people. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: So and at the time that I was starting, Jimmy Oliver was representing all the Italian people in town and John [unintelligible - 00:28:05] was. And they got the bulk of the Italian trade, so to speak. So it was just regular people, all kinds coming in to different things. The last 25 years or so, I haven't been to court in 20 years now because all I do is mortgage work for banks and probate work for those in the States and things of that nature, so that that in itself is literally with me. Like I said before, he handles far more different things than I ever did. And obviously it won't, 15 well, because I'm reaching the end of the trail here; I've been around 45 years now. But as I say with my work, with doing just mortgage work for banks and things like that, I handled dozens of closings for residential houses and lawns, shopping malls, the whole [unintelligible - 00:29:10] people needed. SPEAKER 1: Oh and initially when you began – I guess this is progress, all that noise outside, right? Anyway, when you first began business, how did people pay for your services? ATILLIO: Well, I was never one to get paid up front, because I knew a lot of the people didn't have a lot of money. And I never lost a lot. I mean I – some bills have gone sour but I never regretted that – I never had a real problem with regard to it. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: But it's interesting, you've just indicated that, the noise of the traffic outside. Well, when I started, we didn't have I-190 or any other highways. And all the traffic used to come right through town here. Everybody going from Worcester up to New Hampshire or through this entire area, they all used Route 12. And Route 12 goes right through the center of town here. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: And you got the traffic light there and you got the traffic light there. And it was amazing, even in those days, the number of trucks that you had. And everyone of them was stopping here and I started out across the street there. And – well I had an office at [unintelligible - 00:30:37] at 39 Main Street. And [unintelligible - 00:30:42] time you have the window opened and it was just trucks, trucks, trucks. And they stop for the lights and they rev the motors and so forth, so you had to close the windows [unintelligible - 00:30:52] try and do anything. So this is nothing compared to what it used to be like. SPEAKER 1: Did you begin by yourself?16 ATILLIO: No, I started next door in this building over here with Isidore Sullivan. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: And I was with him for five years and then I went, branched off on my own. Went across… SPEAKER 1: What's it like working with your son? ATILLIO: It's good, it's very good. I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed it. We don't have any problems. ROBERT: No. ATILLIO: We understand each other. We ask each other for advice and opinions and so forth. ROBERT: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: And I think the main thing is that it's, you know, we trust each other. ROBERT: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: So that when we ask a question, we're getting a truthful answer, you know for us, in our circumstances and so forth. So that…no, I've enjoyed having him with me tremendously. I don't know what I would have done if he hadn't come here, because I wouldn't have lasted this long, I'm sure of that. ROBERT: And it's been good, it's been very good. If my dad hadn't been an attorney, I don't know what I would have done too. But it's good, you know. I keep telling him that he can retire anytime he wants, although like I secretly don't want him to go. But no, it's been very good, you know. It's been a comfortable place to work. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: You know, I've never really thought of not doing this. The political job has enabled me to do other things, but still allowed me to stay here. And you know, I never thought of going someplace else, you know. It's a very comfortable place and, you know, we know each other obviously and… good, it's been good; I'm glad.17 SPEAKER 1: What happens when he retires? ROBERT: I don't know. [Laughter] He promised me… ATILLIO: I won't be far away. ROBERT: He promised me he won't. So, I don't know. I don't know what I –honest to God, I really haven't thought about it. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: And I keep telling him that, you know, whatever he wants, that's okay. He can do that. But I think my dad, this is like his, it's part of his work, but it's kind of his hobby too, I think really, you know. You know, I like to go fishing and stuff; he doesn't fish. So I think this is…I hope they say I'm honest, you know. I was sensitive to their situation. I guess that's what I would hope they would – I think education seems to have become the real big issue today, at least as I've been there. It's just really grown, you know, both in terms of prominence, in terms of the money that we've committed to it. It really is that the issue people seem to care most about fall pretty close to the other thing by healthcare. That's how it changed a lot. People tend to come to us for just about everything; you'd be surprised. The calls that we get from people that are having a problem with the Registry of Motor Vehicles or the Department of Social Services or traffic light or – you'd be amazed with some of the calls we get. And sometimes if they won't find me, they'll call my parent's house, you know, looking for me. They'd call like late, in the middle of the night sometimes, yes. ATILLIO: Yes, quarter to four the other day. ROBERT: Yes. SPEAKER 1: Quarter to four? AM? ROBERT: In the morning. ATILLIO: In the morning. ROBERT: Yes.18 SPEAKER 1: What happened? They can't wait or something? ATILLIO: We got to talk to the senator. [Laughter] SPEAKER 1: But not at that time. ROBERT: I think my mother hung up on them, which is pretty unusual for my mother to hang up on anybody but… ATILLIO: No, she said, "Call the office in the morning, not now." ROBERT: Ah, right. ATILLIO: You realize what time it is? My wife is a much nicer person than I am. [Laughter] ROBERT: I was friendly with Paul. I always liked him. He had been a legislator for a long time. We have a number of mutual friends, so I didn't endorse him when he ran as a Democrat. SPEAKER 1: Okay. ROBERT: He really – but I didn't endorse the Democrat either, who's running against him last time. You know, I think that on Beacon Hill, a lot of the partisan stuff is put aside most of the time. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: When the governor takes a position, very often it's partisan with the speaker or the senate president, but for the average person out there, you know, I think that you've got to have your eyes open and just kind of do what you think is the right thing and not so much what the political thing is, or what the partisan thing to do is. I think people don't really care about that a lot. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: So I didn't have a hard time working with Paul Cellucci or Bill Weld or James Swift. I got along well with Mike Dukakis too. It didn't really matter who the governor was, or the party so much, I don't think. Once they ran, you know. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: I mean you got to work with people. SPEAKER 1: So do you ever reflect on…19 ROBERT: Oh yes. SPEAKER 1: Where you are now? ROBERT: Sure, yes. I'm sure for them it was a real – I'm very lucky, you know. I know that. We were brought up, you know, our parents were there and they gave us a great education. We had a great family life, there was a lot of love there and that made all the difference. We all went to good schools. We had advantages that my grandparents never had, you know, on either side of the family, in terms of education and the ability to provide for ourselves. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ROBERT: For most of us, I think it really hasn't been a struggle. And that's, you know, that's a credit to my parents and my grandparents, to set out and establish a home someplace we don't know anyone or maybe they don't even speak the language. People wouldn't think of doing that, but back then it was fairly commonplace with [unintelligible - 00:37:36]. SPEAKER 1: That… ATILLIO: No. SPEAKER 1: That – you know… ROBERT: No, I don't – you know – I don't know. I… ATILLIO: No, that's all right. Marie married… ROBERT: Right. ATILLIO: Someone with no faith. An extremely, extremely good man, don't misunderstand me. But I mean he's not – she's happy and she has beautiful children. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: So… in those days my parents were – well, probably would have been shocked by it, but I mean it's –we're not today. I think one of the big difference is that, is the outside the religious aspect of it, but my graduating class at Holy Cross in 1951, 90 percent of the fellows in that class went into the service – ninety percent. Now I 20 think that's an extremely high percentage. And also that you had handicapped people in the class that were physically unable to go into the service and things like that, or the number of fellows that went into the seminary and so forth. Today, I think you have some patriotism around because of that September 11 incident, but people just don't look at it the same way today as they did. [Unintelligible - 00:38:55] Canada to avoid going into the service, whereas at the draft, they're doing the Vietnam War where you have any number of people that were – there are a lot of changes in the world, there's no question about that. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm [unintelligible - 00:39:09] know? ROBERT: Fortunately I am. SPEAKER 1: And you? ROBERT: I think you've covered it pretty well. SPEAKER 1: [Continuation] of the interview, the senator had to leave and I have just one more question for Atillio and that is, what does it mean to be an Italian? ATILLIO: Oh gosh, what's it mean? When you talk about Italian people, the first thing that comes for me is the warmth. It comes from within the people, from within. I think they generally love other people – most definitely strong believers in the family. And Italian mothers, don't cross them or their children because no telling what would happen. There is a great love of the children in Italian families. There's strong family feelings; I grew up with strong family feelings. A week, it was – over any great period of time when we didn't see our grandparents. Fortunately that was just on my mother's side because my father – I'm just happy, I enjoy it. I [unintelligible - 00:40:31] for life, their little [unintelligible - 00:40:34] Italian wedding, you would have fun. There's no question about that. Like to party, they like to eat and drink. And they're the warm, warm people, and I've enjoyed it.21 SPEAKER 1: What for your children? ATILLIO: Well, I hope that my wife and I have gotten along extremely well. And we've lived our years together, now we'll be in July and we've had six children and happy. I would hope that they would have the same happiness that we had, but as I say, unfortunately it's a different world out there. We intended to have as many children as the good Lord sent us and he sent us six. And we've been very happy with that, but I think the – I have two daughters that have children, most of them today and been running around that everybody does today, just the frantic pace out there now, that fortunately most of us did – everybody wants and all the new cars and so, they're cheating themselves in some form, but that's their decision and they do what they have to do. My wife didn't work; when the children were older, she used to help me out in the office and so forth. But it was the same with my brother, his wife worked with the children at home. She took care of the home and – because when I was sick, my wife took care of me, and I… SPEAKER 1: To take care of each other? ATILLIO: Yes, yes. Take care of each other and take care of your family. And that was the important thing. That's about it. Oh yes, I think you've covered everything. I'm sure I'll think of a thousand things after you're gone, but… SPEAKER 1: You can certainly call. ATILLIO: But, no I'm a – as I say, as far as – I've been very happy being Italian. I've grown up with a lot of wonderful people and workers. Kevin, my cousins, they are the Ballerin sisters; they're both doctors so on, so forth. Their parents worked extremely hard [unintelligible - 00:42:49], and then she had the bakery there. They get up at [three] [unintelligible - 00:42:53], taken several trips to Italy now, and they've been friendly to us, always been warm and…22 SPEAKER 1: Your ancestral village? ATILLIO: Oh, yes, as a matter of fact last fall. SPEAKER 1: Last fall? ATILLIO: Last fall we were there. With the trip to the lakes where [unintelligible - 00:43:11] in Italy and then we went to the house of my wife, my mother was born in, in Revine Lago. And that's a swirl of mountains there. They lived in what they call 'the castle.' It was a castle [unintelligible - 00:43:29] in the center of the town – that lives there. Seventeen hundred years old. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm. ATILLIO: You know, last fall. My wife and I have been there before, but this is with the rest of the family. SPEAKER 1: Did you ever meet any of your cousins? ATILLIO: Oh yes. SPEAKER 1: Yes? ATILLIO: Yes, I've met many of them. Very hospitable to us when we went there last fall and so forth, having the – and they've come here and they stayed at my mother's house and… SPEAKER 1: And [unintelligible - 00:44:04] speaking, how were they different as far as lifestyle? ATILLIO: Well, I think the only difference is they don't go to the malls like we do all the time, because it's not in the large cities. They're working, they have decent jobs – well, some of them have done very well for themselves and all well dressed and they all appear to eat well – even, I'm sure that if you go up to New Hampshire from here, the people in some of those small towns lived differently than we do here in Leominster. SPEAKER 1: Mm-hmm, interesting. ATILLIO: That's all. SPEAKER 1: Well, okay, well, I thank you very much./AT/ee

Transcript of an oral history interview with Reinhard M. Lotz, conducted by Sarah Yahm at Norwich University in Northfield, Vermont, on 10 April 2015, as part of the Norwich Voices oral history project of the Sullivan Museum and History Center. Reinhard Lotz graduated from Norwich University in 1960; the bulk of the interview focuses on his subsequent military career in the U.S. Army. ; 1 Reinhard M. Lotz, NU 1960, Oral History Interview April 10, 2015 Sullivan Museum and History Center Interviewed by Sarah Yahm SARAH YAHM: Could you introduce yourself on tape? RON LOTZ: Yeah, my name's Reynard M. Lotz, they call me Ron. And I'm living in St. Louis, Missouri at the time. I had 30 years in the army and retired in 1990. So that means I'm the class of 1960. So again, it means that I'm in my 77th year. SY: Seventy seventh year, congratulations. So where were you born? RL: I was born in Jamestown, New York in 1938. SY: Where is Jamestown? RL: Jamestown is a town that I spent about four months in and then I really grew up in Waterbury, Connecticut. That was an industrial town, blue collar town, brass center of the world during the 19 -- actually up until after the war, until the 1950s. I can remember World War II and the blackouts. I can remember going by the factories that used to run 24 hours a day seven days a week and all the machines click clacking away. And they were making shell casings and that for the war effort. SY: And what were your parents doing during the war? RL: Well my mother was a stay at home mom. I had a sister. And my father ran the F.W. Woolworth Company, five and ten cent store there in town. And so when I was growing up I started working for my father when I was eight years old. And my father would pay me out of his own pocket. SY: Really? RL: Yeah, just because I wanted to earn some money and then I also did things like wash cars for 50 cents and mow lawns for 50 cents. So I was an entrepreneur. SY: I was just going to say, you were a little entrepreneur. Excellent and so when you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up? RL: You know it's a funny thing, I had some likes, but I never knew I would follow those. But I love military history. I love to read. And when I was at a very young age, I took my mother's library card and went into the adult section and got books to read. SY: You were one of those -- hold up, I got to close that door because of the sound of the vacuum is much louder on tape. RL: I understand.2 SY: Hey there. F2: Hello. SY: I'm doing interviews and the vacuuming is super loud. Do you know who's vacuuming and why? F2: No idea, but (inaudible) [00:02:31]. SY: OK, well I'll see you tomorrow. We'll just have to deal with the vacuuming. OK so you took the library card and you went -- RL: Into the adult section and got books and read them. I was one of those kids that loved to read and military history was one of my passions you might say. SY: I ask this to everybody actually, did you play war as a kid? RL: Yes, in the sandbox outside my back door. We had a sandbox. And I had plastic soldiers from that timeframe and I used to dig caves and castles and machine gun pits and the whole bit. SY: And was it World War II in your mind, was it World War I, was it the Civil War, was it the Revolutionary War. RL: Well it was World War II because I grew up in that timeframe and that was the thing that was most prevalent at the time. And during that time, you're going to grammar school, if you turned in newspaper and depending on how many bundles, et cetera, et cetera, you get stripes. I don't know if they call that PTA or whatever but there was an emblem you could put on your sleeve on your jacket with stripes on it depending on how much you collected and contributed to the war effort. SY: Interesting. Wow, OK, so the war was very much a part of your childhood. So how did you end up deciding to go to Norwich? RL: Well I went to a prep school, Mount Hermon, which was in Massachusetts, northern Massachusetts. But it was a prep school that part of your tuition was paid with working eight hours a week. And so when I went there I started off in the farm working with dairy cows. And then my second year I was groundskeeper and my third year building cleaning. And the epitome of my career at prep school was that I was a waiter in the dining facility which gave you a lot more free time and you became the friend of a lot of people who liked to sit at your table because you would make sure that you were in the kitchen, the first to get the food, et cetera, et cetera, and they always had second helpings. So I was at Mount Hermon and I applied to three colleges. One I was put on a waiting list, one I was rejected, and the other was Norwich University. Now I was a C+ student. So -- SY: Even with all that reading?3 RL: Oh with all that reading. My reading skills were far superior to my age, but the point being is that I came to Norwich and there was a lieutenant colonel -- no, he wasn't a lieutenant colonel, he was a first sergeant or sergeant major at that time. He was lieutenant colonel my freshman year. But he took me around the school and so impressed me with his attitude towards the school plus also how he treated me as a person that when I left I told my parents that's where I wanted to go. Now you have to realize too at that time all of us had to have a military obligation. Either you went in for six months, then the reserve or you went for two years active duty and that. So we were going to have to go into the military anyway and I loved military history. And when I came to Norwich University I just kind of fit in you might say. SY: Yeah, so what was your experience like as a rook? A lot of people have described a harsh awakening at that moment. Were you prepared? RL: I guess since I've been away to prep school and been away from home and that that I was able to adapt a lot easier maybe than those who had not been. I took it all with a grain of salt. I said these are things you're going to have to put up with so keep your mouth shut and grin and bear it. SY: Now were there some kids -- I know there were a lot of kids who washed out, it was like 51% or something in your class. Dick did the math. He told me. But do you remember, were there kids who got targeted? Do you remember hazing or was it mostly just like this is just something we need to get through, this is an elaborate game? RL: I think that there's always a certain amount of hazing. Hazing not in a real rough or negative sense, but hazing in the sense that maybe one guy or several people just maybe don't fit the mold so therefore they might get a little bit more of harassment than you did. Or maybe that you have adapted and try to do what the cadet is telling you to do, therefore the heat's off you. And we always used to try to help those cadets or rooks who were having a tough time. Heck, we helped polish their shoes. We made sure their uniforms were pressed. Some kids just weren't capable of accomplishing all that. And then you have to say too, I think today at Norwich the qualifications academically and everything have improved a great deal. Now you have SATs and ACT scores. Back in those days, it was based upon submission and also the recommendation from your teachers and of course your grades. But Norwich is a totally different school today versus back in the 1950s. SY: Yeah, but that's interesting. So you do remember helping kids out. RL: Oh yeah, absolutely. And some of the rooks harassed the rooks. I mean it wasn't just upper classmen. But it was sometimes -- it's a predator type of atmosphere and I think it's human nature. You just have to be careful of that and aware of it and make sure that it doesn't happen if you can do something to stop it, you see. SY: Yeah, and that's always the question is how do you keep it from crossing that line. RL: That's right. And it's how strong a person you are. If you're a very strong person with morals and with firm beliefs, then you try to do something to change that, but it's the 4 method in which you change that that's the key. If you're abrasive or in your face or something, the person that you're talking to or trying to get something changed, it's not going to work. You have to be able to balance it out and approach it in the right way in order to get results. And I learned this at Norwich. I used that all through my army career, is to approach something -- always treat the other person like you would like to be treated yourself. When you had a problem with a person, you sometimes had to be tough and some outright terminate his career or whatever, but it sometimes had to be done. It's not the fact that you wanted to do it, but the fact is that they broke the rules and there's nothing that you're going to repair it. You've had it. SY: Do you remember any moments at Norwich when you learned that lesson, any of those like difficult leadership dilemmas? It was a long time ago. RL: Well it's that I remember the good days. I remember one rook who he was never going to make it at Norwich because his intellect was to the point where you would say that it was at a level that was not college level, let me put it that way. Yet we tried to prep him for exams and things like that and we tried but he was finally eliminated because of his academics and he just couldn't do what had to be done. SY: It was almost cruel to keep him in the system. What part of the highs that you remember from your time in Norwich? RL: The comradery. SY: Had you experienced that before at boarding school? RL: No, I don't have friends -- my boarding school was something that I survived it. Academic-wise and everything else, it was a challenge for me. I was actually in a school that I was doing college work and so that prepared me though for Norwich because when I came to Norwich I was fully prepared to face the academics and know how to handle all that. So I got to say, that's a big plus. But when I got to Norwich, my relationships with the school and the profs and everything else, I remember the PMSNT, I remember those people who worked in the PMSNT office. I remember Major Pekoraro who was the engineer major there. And I was a business major but I joined the engineer society because of this major because he was a Korean War veteran who was a POW. And he was a role model. He was tough but just and just the type of person you felt you'd like to be around and learn from. There was a guy named Hardy who was a captain. And I think he had a relative or a brother or something that was going to Norwich at the time and he was an armored guy and he was a friendly, nice person. And then there was -- and some of the names here, I can't -- there was a lieutenant colonel there who also was a very role model. These guys were role models. The PMSNT was the tough guy, didn't have much association with him. But at Norwich I learned, because of our social life with our fraternities and things like that, it gave us an outlet and we had a closer relationship. And I think the class of 1960 has done amazingly well keeping abreast of each other and I've lost in the past year several of my classmates of whom I talked to before they passed on, just several days before they passed on, from the point that I wanted to say goodbye. It's a tough thing to do. You have to realize now that I'm on a 5 shortlist and those guys were important. And I think our class is like that. But Norwich has been a great influence on me because it gave me the opportunity for the leadership positions, I was a cadre member every year. My senior year I was -- we had the freshman battalion at that time and I was made the executive officer in charge of all the academics for all the freshmen. So I had to have academic boards. And we met on those with records of those cadets who were not achieving the standard that needed to be to graduate. So we would review their records and then recommended action, help, tutoring, or whatever it needed to try to get that kid back on track to get the rook, get them through that first year. SY: Do you think that type of dedication to the wellbeing of your rooks made you a better leader in the military later? RL: I think it did, but let me relate something that happened at summer camp. I was in the honor tank platoon and I also was -- SY: Hold on a second. It's like we're crossed here, it's like star crossed, you know what I mean. RL: I don't know if you can -- SY: I'm going to see if I can get Heather. (inaudible) [00:15:00] They're redoing the library. But it's like if somebody's talking in the hallway -- but they're right over there. She's going to ask. If she doesn't, we might just need to shell this as well into the back. RL: Are we going to have repeat all this again? SY: No, I can edit it together. But I want people to be able to listen to actual sound clips that don't involve listening to somebody -- RL: You can say that's combat. (laughter) You can hear the guns in the background, you know. SY: Exactly, this is so authentic that I took my recording all the way into whatever. Did Heather work her magic? I think she might've worked her -- RL: No, I don't think she's had time to -- and I don't think they're going to stop. They're on a time schedule and what's going to happen is they're going to just drive you nuts and have you do it. SY: You know this happens, they don't do work for days and I don't know their schedule and I can't ever get it. And then I'm like, "Great, they're done for a while." Then I bring someone in. This has happened to me like two or three times. RL: Well let me think. Want to try? SY: Yeah, let's keep talking.6 RL: If we can't maybe I can do something tomorrow, if I can. SY: Yeah, if you can you can pop by and if not, you're going to be back in October. RL: OK, we were talking about ROTC and summer camp. And I went to summer camp at Fort Knox -- thank you. SY: You're awesome. RL: And when I was there, we had two companies, A and B, and I was company A. And we had a lot of Norwich grads were there, plus VMI, plus Citadel, plus from all over, from all the ROTC units. And this was at Fort Knox. And there were two incidents that I remember vividly. One is that on a Saturday afternoon in 90 degree heat in my khaki uniform with an M1 on my shoulder, I was walking guard duty around the barracks that we lived in, World War II barracks. And the rest of the cadets were getting ready to go off because after twelve o'clock on Saturday they could go into town and do all that and I had the guard duty. I was on guard. And so I was walking around the barracks and one of the tac officers came up to me from Norwich and I reported to him and the general orders and the whole bit. And I was soaking wet. And he says, "Well how's it going?" And I turn to him and I said and I was facing him and I said, "Well sir I'm going to tell you that this has taught me one lesson, that I will never go into this man's army as a private." And he laughed. Well let me tell you, I was very serious about that. And then it came to where we were closing out and we were going to rate our contemporaries in the barracks and that. One of my classmates came up to me and said, "Ron," he says, "Don't you worry." He says, "Me and the boys are going to take care of you." And what he meant was that of all the Norwich guys and all the guys in that barracks that these guys had gotten together and rated me number one. SY: And why were you rated number one. RL: Because I think they liked me. You can't question that because you never are actively trying -- you're treating people the way you want to be treated. And you want to be a leader in the sense that you do the right thing at the right time and for the right reason. But when he came up and told me that and there were some pretty high powered Norwich guys in the cadet corps and they were going to be -- running the regiment that coming year. And so when it all came out there were two guys ranked top in armor ROTC summer camp. One was from VMI and one was from Norwich. It was me and one other guy. And so we went up head on head competition and the guy from VMI won out, which is fine because I went in there kind of naïve and I didn't know what to expect. But the point being was that I had the opportunity, Norwich had the opportunity, and Norwich did well at summer camp. And that was all that was important to me. So those things impacted on me and also the professors like Loring Hart who later became president of the university, he was my English teacher. And I was the news editor on the Guidon. And we had some West Point cadets come up because we had fraternities at that time, they said to us, "Boy do you guys have it great here," because of the social life and everything. And that was the greatest thing about Norwich. Norwich has always been about the citizen soldier. Now this is before we had civilian students, so you got to 7 realize that what I'm talking about here is my time at Norwich as a cadet corps, the citizen soldier. They trained us to go out into the world and be a civilian but if the country needed us, to come back and to serve our country. And that was our whole philosophy. SY: And I think the other element of the citizen solider that I find compelling is the idea that you're a thinking citizen with a trained mind and you also know how to follow orders, right? RL: Absolutely. SY: And so I'm wondering as you sort of went on in the army if that training as a citizen soldier ever got you into trouble. Did those two things ever clash, your moral code, your ethics, your trained mind, and, "Do this?" RL: Well I think it could and maybe did. It's like yes and no. There's only two answers. There's a no or a yes and there's nothing in between. Now therefore you become very moralistic, moral, saying, "OK, that's wrong." But in the real world, there's a middle line there and you have to try to come to grips with that. Sometimes you can't stomach it. I mean sometimes it's either yes or no and that's it. I find that too many times people are not willing to say yes or no, they're willing to kind of muddy the water and go with a middle direction and that may not be the best way to do. And sometimes, and this I shouldn't probably say, but I say sometimes that affects our policies and the way we look at combat and the way we look at what's happening out there. SY: Was there ever a time when you said no? Was there ever a time you sort of refused an order? RL: Refuse an order? SY: Where you're like, "I don't think this is right." RL: No, I have found in life that you never -- if you're given an order and you're in a public place and that, don't ever say no, ever. The time to say no is after in private because I have learned that commanders do not want to be criticized in front of their troops or in front of a group. And they will cut you off at the knees. And I understand, some people didn't. You don't get in an argument if you're briefing and the commander is saying something that you may not agree with or is trying to correct you, you let them do it. Point being is you correct it after the briefing or whatever. And if he still does not accept your evaluation of such and such, then you let it go. Now to say that you always do what you're told to do, yeah you better watch out because if you're told to do by the commander and he comes back and checks and it's not done, you're going to lose your job. But if you're told to do something and find a better way to do it, that's a different story. So you have to think. It's not just those things, yes sir two bags full. It's the point is, "Yes sir," and think about, then how to get it done. If it's an impossible thing to do, and I ran across this when I was a battalion commander, and it was during a timeframe where we were faced with cuts in the budget and we weren't getting the right maintenance equipment and things like that. And my troops were living in World War II barracks where in the wintertime we had to almost wrap the whole building in cellophane 8 in order to keep the wind out and the cold out. And we had oil furnaces that sometimes went belly up. And in the summer time my troops were dragging their mattresses outside and sleeping in the street because it was so hot inside. And I had a confrontation with my brigade commander, support command commander. And I went into his office and told him I did not have to be motivated by his letter of reprimand. And he looked at me and he says, "Is that all?" And I said, "Yes sir." "You're dismissed." And I walked out. And these are World War II barracks and one of the clerks had called the other battalion commanders and they came running to the support command headquarters. And they said, "What did you do? Why did you do a dumb thing like that?" He says, "All of us have gotten these letters of reprimand," but this is the way the colonel commanded his troops with giving them letters of reprimand to light fires under them. Well I was not -- if somebody had told me this before, maybe I would've been a little mellow, but I wasn't. And I was just stubborn enough to go in and confront him. And I'm not encouraging people to do that, think it out, let it cool off before you do something. But from that day on, that commander and I had a great relationship. SY: He respected you? RL: He and I would sit down on a Saturday morning because we were working six days a week, sometimes seven days a week. And this isn't peace time now. And he would say, "OK." And with the problems that he knew were happening with the battalion, he would say, "OK." And then he would write notes to that battalion commander for maintenance or admin for people. He'd tell them I want so and so and so done. Or he'd look at me say, "That's your responsibility. You take care of it." And you damn well better take care of it because he was giving you support but you were responsible for all this, now you get it done. And when he left, years and years later, I was at Arlington National Cemetery visiting the grave of my mother-in-law. And my wife and I walked up the hill. This is just below where the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is. And as I walked up and went onto the road, right across that street was a gravestone, a major general, who had been my support command commander. And I have done a composite book for all three of my children of my military record and in there I positively made this statement of this incident where he gave me a letter of reprimand. And what I said is that if I ever have to go to war, I want to go to war with this man because I knew that that was a man that I respected, that was a man that I knew he could do what he said he could do and he demanded that of his troops and he wouldn't take a "No." When he said, "Do it," you well knew it was to your benefit to do it. He had served three tours in Vietnam. He was highly decorated. He had been an enlisted man and then went to the prep school and then went to West Point. It was a guy I respected. SY: You trusted him. RL: Yeah. And you knew that he'd take care of you. But in order to survive in the battlefield, you had to learn and you had to do what he said because he had the experience. Now when you got the experience, you see, and then he would rely upon you to get the job done. But he'd tell you what to do and then it was up to you to do it. And how you did it, that was up to you.9 SY: Yeah, that's interesting. So let's rewind a little. So you finish up Norwich and you commission. And where do you go, what do you commission? RL: Well after I got my commission I went to -- because my eyes were not good enough for combat arms, I was commissioned in the transportation corps, but I had to serve three years in combat arms, that was the rule. So they sent me to Fort Benning. And I went to infantry officer basic course. I went to airborne school and then I went to ranger school. And if you ever need any stories about those schools, back in those days, I could tell you some that were -- again, it's one of those things where it is rough, but boy oh boy, you got to roll with the punches and you can have some good belly laughs out of it. SY: Well tell me one of them. RL: Well down in Florida during the jungle training, they kept you awake. They kept you on constant patrol, patrol, patrol. They wanted you to be exhausted, to see how you would react and how you could do it. Well we kept going out and out on patrols and we had a plan and usually we went out at night time, at night patrols. And I was the last guy in the patrol and I carried an M1 rifle. And we had these little florescent things attached to our cap where you can see the guy in front of you so you could follow him. And we were going through the swamps and there was a log there and I stepped over a log. And I took a step off the log and I went up to my waist in mud. And I looked around and there was nobody there. The guys had kept on going. They didn't know I was stuck in the mud. So here they are and you're not trying to shout or anything, but luckily the guy in front of me looked behind and didn't see me and sent the word up to halt for a minute. He came back and he had to pull me out of the mud or I would've been there to this day. And the fact is that we got through all this and we did all this and we were in the mountains one time and I had the automatic rifle slung across my neck and this is with the ammunition pouches and everything. We're walking up this mountain road and they said take a break. And I was on the left hand column, so I went off to the side of the road and just squatted to lean, I thought against a bank. Well there was no bank. And I went over head over heels down the side of this mountain and came up flat against a tree with my feet up in the air. And I wasn't hurt and I got myself out of that. So I called back up onto the road. Guys hauled me up. And we had a good chuckle about that. But it was stupid instances like that. They weren't funny to anybody else, but in our state of mind they were. And you never forget them. SY: Yeah, absolutely. So you do all of those different schools and then where's your first placement? RL: My first assignment was in Germany with the First of the Fifteenth Infantry Company B. That was the company that Audie Murphy served in during the Second World War. And as you know he was the most decorated of our military heroes. And at the time I arrived we were a straight infantry. We walked everywhere. We weren't mechanized. And while I was there, I was there a year and a half in Bamberg, Germany, and our mission was we would deploy to -- if the Russians came through the Fulda Gap to delay them as long as we could until the armor could move up to confront the enemy. So ours was the delaying action. Well while I was there, we became mechanized with armored personnel 10 carriers. But during that time we didn't have them, we would walk to training areas one way, either in the morning or walk back in the afternoon and be trucked out in the morning or be trucked back in the afternoon, one of them. But we walked one way because there was a gas shortage at that time. So periodically an infantry platoon was in our company was sent out to what they call a forward position, an infantry platoon plus an engineer platoon. And we had a cantonment area out there, barracks and all. And it was our job, we stayed in communication with the base, that if the balloon did go up and the Russians did come across then we had certain missions to protect the engineers in blowing bridges and et cetera, et cetera. And that's what our job was. And my job out there was to call unannounced alerts, usually early in the morning, and then the guys all had to jump, get dressed, and in the trucks, and gone out of the cantonment area to their designated positions. Now we did that for a year and a half and then because I was a transportation corps officer and had served my time in the combat arms, I was sent to Berlin, Germany. At that time it was a walled city. They were still building some of the wall. And it was isolated. There were four sections, French, British, American, and Soviet. And the Soviet section was walled in and you could only go -- usually you hear, "Checkpoint Charlie." Checkpoint Charlie was a real point in the wall with barbed wire and everything. Now I understand it's just like a block of concrete or something in the road. Well back then, it was real life. And I saw places where refugees had tried to climb the wall and had been terminated, had been killed. SY: So you saw their blood on the wall? RL: Well you knew where they were because the bodies had been taken away and we knew where they had tried to get across. But at that time I was a train commander and as a train commander I took the train from Berlin to Helmstedt which was in the western zone through the Russian zone. And we had to stop the train in Marienborn for a Soviet checkpoint. We wouldn't deal with East Germans. We didn't recognize the East Germans. We dealt with the Russians only. That was the politics of the time. And a Russian officer would be there. I had an interpreter and we would check every document for every person that was on the train. And sometimes you could tell when tensions were high the Russian officers would be really SOBs and when tensions were not high then they were more friendly. But there were always a couple of Russian officers who were SOBs regardless of what. However, I did that for a good year and at the same time I had a good buddy who had been in the infantry in one of the other battle groups in the same town, had been my roommate in Bamberg, Germany where we had been stationed, who reverted to the MP corps and came to Berlin and was riding the freight trains, the same route, everything else, but on a different track. But he was in charge of the MP detail that was on the freight trains. And I remember one time we got stopped in the middle of the Russian zone and I looked out my window of my passenger train and there was the freight train and there was my buddy. "How are you doing?" We put the window down, we'd chit chat before one of the trains moved on. He was going west and I was going east. But there were times like that and Berlin was -- SY: Were there any really high tension moments that you had?11 RL: Well yeah it was because you didn't know how they were going to react. I mean they could be real SOBs or they could be -- the thing is is that at that time you didn't want to take a chance of not following the rules. Berlin was the showcase of Western Europe. They had rebuilt it from the war and the contrast between West Berlin and the Soviet, it was like night and day. I was a staff officer for part of my time there and I had to take a Sedan and a driver and drive into the Russian sector just to show the flag. And sometimes I would get out to walk and I would take pictures of some -- Berlin before the war must've been a magnificent, beautiful city because I could tell you the architecture and everything else. And then the apartment buildings that the Russians had built looked about as drab and falling apart as you could ever believe. So that's why they had to put up the wall, that's why they had to stop the rupture of East Germans coming into the West. And cultural wise and everything else, the western zone -- guys, you couldn't have asked for anything more. And Kennedy came and paraded through West Berlin. I was there. I was there between like ten feet away, fifteen feet away, and believe it or not there was a Norwich graduate there, my class, name of Bob Francis who was in the signal corps. And I don't know if he was taking pictures for whatever, but he was there during the parade. I saw him and talked to him. Now when Kennedy lost his life, the Berliners, when he said ich bin ein Berliner and they just went crazy. They loved him. So when he died, they turned out every light in West Berlin. They turned out every light. There wasn't a light there and lit candles in their windows, put candles in their windows. SY: Do you remember where you were when you found out that Kennedy had been shot? RL: I was in Berlin, where exactly I can't remember. I just know that the effect it had on the Berliners and on the world was amazing. And the Berliners loved this man just from the standpoint of what he said that time and he had come. And the respect, the showing of respect by candles, putting them in the windows, and turning out all the other lights was amazing. No other president has been honored, I don't think, with such sincerity. People try to emulate, but unfortunately they fall far short. SY: Was there ever a moment when you were in Berlin or Germany in general where you were like, "This Cold War is about to get hot," where you thought, "Oh, it's going to start?" Did Dick tell me a story? Was it your story about a plane where if it took off, that was going to be a reaction? He said something about a plane. I don't know what I'm talking about. RL: That was Vietnam. SY: That was Vietnam. That was later. OK. RL: I keep hitting that. I can't remember because it was always there and you were always prepared. And so to say one point over another, I can't remember such. Now I did have a friend there who flew helicopters and I do remember flying over Hitler's bunker that was totally destroyed from the Second World War and there was just nothing but dirt, concrete, that had never been rebuilt. Little things like that I remember. I remember going to see the ballet, Swan Lake as a matter of fact. They brought all of these wonderful cultural things into Berlin to show people the difference between the two 12 countries or philosophies you might say. But to think about the tensions, yeah, but when we were told to make staff rides and to be in total communication with our headquarters because we never knew when our cars might be stopped and something might happen. But other than that, no. SY: Yeah, it was just a pervasive feeling? RL: It was a constant reminder and harassment to leave Berlin. To drive, it was going through checkpoints. And then you didn't know if you were going to get let back in and all of these things. But life goes on. SY: OK, so then you leave Berlin and where do you go next? RL: Well from Berlin I went to -- and let me relate something here too about Norwich. Back when I was a senior, Norwich had corporations come in to recruit and to interview you and that. Eastman Kodak came in and I was supposed to see them and I didn't. Eastman Kodak wrote me a letter and it said, "When you have your military obligation finished, let us know and we'll bring you to Rochester." So when I came back from overseas, there was a question there whether I would stay in the army or not. Not serious, but I wanted to explore all of my options. So I went to Rochester. They offered me a job and et cetera, et cetera, but I did stay in the military. SY: Why'd you decide to stay in? RL: Well maybe it was something I was used to, you felt comfortable in. You have a driving flame to be the general or something? No, I just felt comfortable in what I was doing. I liked what I was doing. And so I kind of just stuck with it. SY: And this is what? Now we're at '64? RL: Yes. SY: So Vietnam is just starting to get on people's radar. RL: The big buildup was '65, '66 when they started sending all the divisions over. And then of course '67, '68 being the Tet Offensive. So I was assigned out to Fort Lewis. And then I was only there a year and I was given orders to go to Fort Bragg to be trained as a Special Forces officer. So I reported into Fort Bragg and was trained. And the revolution in the Dominican Republic occurred. And the 82nd Airborne was deployed to the Dominican Republicans, so they sent a contingence of Special Forces down there, and I was one of those. My mission there was more -- as a detachment commander I was small team, modified team, intelligence gathering upcountry on the island. And then I came back after that and was the S4 for the unit. SY: So this is the revolution and opposition to Trujillo? RL: Trujillo had been assassinated. And the communist were trying to take over the country. And luckily the Dominicans were -- and the 82nd Airborne -- the US was asked to come 13 in and help. And they contained the uprising in the inner city of Santo Domingo, the inner city. And they barb wired it. They had literally barb wire all around the old city and kept the communist in there. Now there were some in the country, in other places and towns, but the Dominican Republic was set up as -- the police force was almost as strong as the army because every police force had a fort in every town. And they had their own weapons, et cetera, et cetera. And the police force was pretty brutal if there was any question at all. Like I was on jump status down there on the island and we used to jump over sugar cane fields. And nine out of ten times -- for practice and to keep proficient -- the police force or the military had brought in who they thought were rebels and popped them, dumped bodies in there. So you found those things. So there was a certain amount of strong armed tactics that the Dominicans were imposing against their own people. But these people were looked upon as Communists and were trying to take over the country. SY: So how did you react to that, finding those bodies in the fields? RL: I walked away. I wasn't going to bury them and I kind of took a pragmatic look at it. I said, "You know what, there is nothing I can do about it. These guys are dead. The diplomats are down here trying to effect an election where the people will elect a Democratic president. We're doing the best job that we can to provide a stable atmosphere for this to take place." And other than that -- and I was upcountry, as I say, intelligent gathering. And I will say that the country was pretty quiet. We had a few times where intelligence was -- radioed back. But the people on a whole were wonderful, hardworking people. And when I was the S4 of the unit, I went down to the quartermaster where our food depot was and that. And believe it or not, the doctors would condemn food, the package was open or something. It wasn't good enough for US soldier consumption. And there were no, what I call, rat turds in it or anything else, but it was just sitting there or a can was dented or something. I would police up all these food stuffs and with approval, the doctors said, "No that's OK but we can't serve this to the troops because of the rules." So I gather this up and we had other outposts in the country. And then I would fly up in a helicopter and give the food out to the people. I felt that was something because they were very, very poor. Let me tell you, the country at that time was -- SY: Oh I've spent time there. It still is. RL: I mean trash and everything, you couldn't believe it. Now it's a resort area though. SY: Except where it's not. RL: I'm sorry, but my personal opinion is that there are some places in the world that never improve. Why is it that the -- again, it's the old power grab. Those that have, have and those that don't -- unfortunately. We try to change that in so many places in the world and we've always done the right thing, for the most part, but it's a very tough, tough thing to do. And they can only help themselves. 14 SY: So that's an intense period of time in the DR. And then you come back and then they're like, "Oh, since you had that nice, intense experience, we're going to send you somewhere easy. How about you go to Vietnam?" I'm kidding obviously. RL: That's right. No, no, I went to school at Fort Eustis, had a job there for six months in the educational department doing reviewing training and things like that. And then I went off to Vietnam. On the way over I took a delay in route and visited Japan, Okinawa, and Taiwan because I had gone to school with a couple of Chinese officers who were stationed on Taiwan. I visited with them before I went to Vietnam. SY: Did you have any idea what you were getting into? RL: No, because I didn't know where I was going to be assigned at the time and when I arrived there at Tan Son Nhat Airport, we were getting rocketed and we lived in tents until they made our assignments. And I was assigned as a transportation corps officer to the fourth transportation command, which was working pier operations and that in Saigon. And I was a pier operations officer for part of my tour there. And this was before Tet Offensive. And we had barge sights that were out of town and I used to go by myself with a 45 strapped to my hip and drive like hell. [We went either by the River in a boat or drove to each barge site.] But at that time, we didn't realize how the VC had infiltrated the area and how serious the problem was. I was extremely lucky. I always thought in my career that I had a guardian angel watching over me because there were so many times where it could've gone the other way. And I remember this, just the night before -- actually the night that I was out and did something, which I won't say right here, it was all job related. I was out there alone in the delta and I came back and that morning was when the VCs struck. And when somebody from Cholon, which was the Chinese sector, some of the officers were going out to the headquarters and got ambushed, shot up, they never made it. And all hell broke loose. And I remember that the VC drove the people on the outlining communities into the city. I remember outside the port area, the one street was just -- one night -- was just crammed with refugees just streaming into the city trying to get away from the fighting. And there were a lot of other incidents where we had ships that were sitting out trying to get up the Saigon River to offload and they'd be spending days and days out there because the port was just jammed with ships and we were trying to offload the equipment and everything and we couldn't get them all up. And some of these ships were commercial ships with cargo holes. And they were rocketed and there were gaping holes in the sides and in the upper structure and things like that because they had to travel up through the delta, in a winding river which wasn't very wide to get to Saigon. And those guys, the bad guys, were out there. And we did our job. And I had a very good friend who was a helicopter pilot. And I remember we had to go to Vung Tau one time and we were in a Huey and we had a number of technicians with us and things like that. And we were flying along the delta and we were skimming the delta. We weren't flying high. We were just skimming. And all of the sudden I just hear this whomp, whomp, whomp, whomp and all of the sudden my buddy in the pilot chair, the whole chopper, he was trying to lift it, almost physically lift that chopper to get altitude because we were under fire. And this guy I have a great admiration for. He's been a friend for a good, long time -- got us out of the situation. We 15 got above it all and flew on to Vung Tau. And we got out. We looked and we were just lucky. Again, it's a matter of time, where you are, and sometimes just plain luck. SY: Right place, right time. Wrong place, wrong time. Did you have any -- I know some people had sort of superstitious good luck charms or things they did to -- were there things in Vietnam that you did to just kind of keep yourself safe in your own mind. RL: Nope. I just kind of -- I tell you quite frankly, I remember the presidential palace, right across the street from my billet. I mean the VC were so close into the city and Saigon was a beautiful town. Well let me say this, Tudor Street which was all tree lined, but during war time a lot of bars and bar girls and all that. But a beautiful town, some really fine French restaurants, but when they say Pearl of the Orient, it was prior to this time. I would say after the war, World War II because I don't think there was much damage there during World War II. But it must've been a beautiful country. SY: So when you were in Vietnam, a lot of people, it was an existential crisis for them. It brought on a lot of doubts about why they were there, what they were doing, the nature of war itself. Was that your experience or did you -- RL: I think that you could dwell on that if you wanted to. But I also think it's in the situation which you're placed in. If you're under a great deal of stress, if you're under fire, if your life is -- it might be snuffed out in a minute's notice, that you start to think about it more and say, "Why the heck am I here, God protect me. Let me just get out of this." And it so shocks your system that that images, they keep reoccurring. It's like your memory buds have been lit up and those things keep coming back in flashes. So I think it's all based upon the situation and where you are and what you're doing. SY: It sounds like you weren't in combat directly. RL: I wasn't directly in combat. I could've been shot because of snipers or anything else. But did I have a rifle in my hand and going out into the jungle, no I did not. My job was to ensure that cargo got lifted off of these ships onto barges or any place else and was delivered to the troops. And I did that. When I got promoted to major, then I was, due to a recommendation by one of my instructors at the transportation school, they recommended me for a staff position. And so they moved me -- still in the Saigon port, but I was at a staff position while I was there, the rest of the time I was there. I was there thirteen months. I was given a special project to do and I told the command that I would stay there until it was finished. So rather than twelve months, I spent thirteen months. SY: Do you remember the first day you arrived and the day you left? RL: I remember the first day I arrived. SY: What was your impression? RL: It was hot, steamy hot. We had a tent city. And there were hundreds of troops in a cantonment area at Tan Son Nhat Airforce Base. Planes coming and going. And I wasn't there very long. And then I was assigned to a unit in Saigon where I was working nights. 16 So I would sleep in daytime. So I do remember the arrival and coming off the plane. But going home, I'd have a hard time. SY: You weren't counting down your days? Well no, because you had that special project, so it wasn't like you were sure. RL: Well I knew I was going to stay. I mean I just knew it. I knew that I was going to do this and that was it. It's hard to -- SY: Was it hard to adjust to coming back home after being in Vietnam? RL: I came back. I was stationed at Fort Monroe. And I worked for the training command there. And I was responsible for the training budget of all the service schools around the United States, to include the aviation schools at Fort Wolters, Rucker, all this. And I remember I worked for a guy named General Pepke and his deputy was a General Andrews. Pepke was a two star at that time and Andrews was a one star. And I had a very responsible position because at that time, believe it or not, in the early '70s, they were downsizing to get out of Vietnam and the school budgets were being cut. And I remember the DA staff called me about the aviation budget for our aviation schools. And I worked with two colonels, lieutenant colonels, who became general officers and trying to save the aviation budget from being cut to the bone. And I remember I worked on a lot of projects and was flying back and forth between Fort Monroe and Washington to work with these officers and try to save as much as we could. And that was I think a turning point probably in my career because I had not been selected for the Commander and General Staff College yet, I was a major. Now Commander and General Staff School is very important to you. I hadn't been selected yet. So there was an opportunity there and I was already working on my master's degree, going to night school. Now I was working constantly with a high pressure job and I was going to school for my master's degree with George Washington and I was doing commander general staff work with the reserve unit at Fort Eustis which was about 20 miles away. SY: You were a busy guy. RL: So I was going to school for four nights a week plus weekends working plus doing my job plus doing the papers and studying and doing all the things you have to do. So I was out and that's why I say to people don't ever get discouraged, don't let people tell you that you're not going to make it or you're not going to do something. You have to keep plugging away and rely upon yourself to be good enough to do it. So I have to say that I wasn't married at the time, so your social life goes to hell in a handbasket. See, you have to set your priorities. And there's another thing that Norwich is going to help you do is set priorities and know what's important and what's not important in life because you have to look down the pike. Think outside the box and then see what it's going to be like ten -- 15 -- 20 years from now. So if you want a career, you got to work for it. And they're not going to hand it to you. You go out and get it. You prove your point to them. So all this happened and I finished up my Commander and General Staff stuff, I got my master's degree, and they shipped me to Korea.17 SY: Now at this point you must be tired. RL: Well I'm going to tell you right now, the thing is that you learn something from your education, from Norwich, which is to press on. It's the old thing as can do, I will try, whatever. Can do was my infantry, first of the fifteenth, can do outfit, Norwich was I will try. And those things drive you, especially if you have fire in your belly and you want to go someplace. And you're not satisfied with just sitting on your butt and hoping that it's going to happen. So I go to Korea and I work for 8th Army HQ in Seoul and I'm a logistical staff officer and out of the blue the general calls me in and said, "Oh by the way you're going to continue as a logistical staff officer, but you're now the missile maintenance officer for Korea." That's an ordinance job and the ordinance officer had just gone home and they didn't have anybody. So now I'm responsible and the problem they had with the Hawk missile program which is a Raytheon product was they were getting about 40% reliability. And DA was holy hell on the command. So I had to do something about that. Well let me put it this way, it's a twelve month tour in Korea. And my assignment officer, the big assignment officer from DA, came over and he says, "Hey, yeah Lotz, you're going to the armed forces staff college." So I said, "Hey look, I've been to Leavenworth." He says, "You're going to the joint school, the armed forces staff college, in Norfolk." And I said, "Well when's this going to happen." He said, "Your next class is six or seven to eight months out," after I come back. I said, "What will I be doing?" He said, "You'll snowbird." Well snowbird is that you go there and you do whatever the school tells you to do. And I told him, I said, "No, I don't want to do that." I stayed in Korea 18 months. I worked on the job I did and when I did that, the reliability of the Hawk missile was at 94%. I had done a whole refurbishment program on the other missiles that we had in budget, I had set up budgets for refurbishment, did all of that, and so I came out of Korea with what they call is a dual job efficiency report because I did two jobs in one. And then I went to the armed forces staff college. SY: There you go. And then you get married. RL: No, not yet. I got to school. I went through school. I was assigned to the military personnel center where I was given a job as the lead on women in the army. I used to brief the DA staff. I used to go over there with all the statistics because we were trying to create a model that would determine the grade and MOS and how to bring them in without having big bubbles and all of that, et cetera, et cetera. And I used to go over with these big, in those days, printouts like this and I used to brief the DA staff. And I used to bring these printouts to them and I'd say generals if you don't believe what I'm saying, you can read it. And I drop it on the floor and they'd all laugh. We're talking about two or three stars and they all laugh because they know they aren't going to do that thing. So they were listening to what I was saying, it's the how we were trying to work this. And I wasn't trying to be smart. I was just trying to lighten the load, just be a little levity there. And I was recommended for the Pace Award because of that and I was given a special award. And I met my wife in Washington. My wife, I was trying to get a date with her and she was busy or I was busy. One time I just got fed up and said, "Are you free Friday night? Can we go out?" And she finally said yes. And so her father was a retired colonel infantry which she never let me forget. And we went out to dinner and dancing down in Washington. And I said to her that night, I said, "I think I'm going to marry 18 you." She said she'd never marry a military guy. And she says, "I think you're right." I've been married ever since, the same woman, very happily married. SY: That's a lovely story. So we've been talking for like about an hour and fifteen minutes. RL: And you want to know something? You got more than you need. SY: And I think you probably want to -- I don't want to take up your whole day. RL: No, and I got to get going. SY: Yeah, exactly. So any last thoughts? This was great. Let me -- RL: It's too much, I know. But I'm telling you stories. SY: No, no, you're telling me stories. This is all really important. RL: We haven't gotten to the point where I got to be a battalion commander about this guy, Pendleton, who used to be -- I'll tell you that a different time. But that's the leadership team. There's what you face as a battalion commander. There is where you have distress and strain of seven days a week, 24 hours a day and have to take care of the troops. SY: So when we have more time, we'll really go into that. I'll put a pin in this. So let's pick. So when we talked on the phone yesterday, you were talking about how you think that in terms of remembering war there's this unfair hierarchy where combat stories are valued more highly than other stories. So do you want to speak to that? RL: It's the perception that people have that when you mention warfare, they think of combat because that's what it's all about. You wouldn't have a war unless somebody was fighting. So we focus on those people who are in combat because they're the ones nine out of ten times who get wounded or there's fatalities and things like that. But we forget about those who support the combat troops, the combat service support troops, and things like that, that there's a huge number of people behind supplying and taking care of, the medical people and the supply people and the transportation people and all these people that are supporting the combat role. Even the artillery people, the combat service support, it's a team and we can't forget that there's a large team behind the combat lines that are supporting those in the trenches. SY: And also I'm sure that in Vietnam even though you were behind the lines, you still were in danger all the time I would imagine. RL: Well you were because the way the war was there, you didn't know who your enemy was because the enemy melded in with the populace. And the snipers and the ambushes and things like that that could happen at any time. So you always had to be prepared. The convoys had to be prepared even in the city sometimes, especially during the Tet Offensive in '68, the Tet Offensive. A lieutenant working with us was ambushed and was killed. So it could happen at any time. And there was no front lines in the First World19 War. It was a trench. And you knew those bad guys were on that side and you were on the other side. It's a different war out there during my service. SY: Yeah. What was it like to live with that constant anxiety and confusion? You were there for a long time? RL: Well yeah, but the thing is is that you didn't dwell on it because if you dwelt on it, then you were afraid all the time and you couldn't get your job done and you couldn't function. So you put it out of your mind. It's one of those things that when you're put under stress, you look to God to say, "Make sure I get through this." SY: Were there ever moments when it broke through and felt that fear, like I don't know, going to bed at night or waking up in the morning or things like that? RL: Only from the standpoint of anxiety you might say. There were times -- the night before the Tet Offensive, I had to go to a barge site and I went alone and I had to go through the city across the bridge outside the city. And the Vietnamese troops were guarding the bridge and so I pulled up in my Jeep and they looked at me and I said, "I got to go to the barge site," which was a couple miles away. You had to go through this little village and all. And they looked like as if I was nuts. But I went and this was about one o'clock in the morning. And I went through the village down to the barge site, checked it out, the operation and everything, and came back and at dawn that same day the next vehicle that came into that village was ambushed. Well there for the grace of God, go I. So there's no way of telling what's going to happen at times. And so the anxiety level is there but you can't dwell on it and you do your job. SY: Does your training keep you from dwelling on it? RL: I think so, yeah, if you know what you're doing. It definitely is a big plus. If you didn't know what you were doing, your anxiety level would really be high because then you would be looking in the shadows. It's not that you're not conscious of what's going on around you because your training develops that instinct to look at certain things and evaluate certain -- and quickly and whether it's safe or not safe. So from that standpoint, yeah your training is a key factor into how you react and how you look at things. It tells you when to go and not to go at times. So it can be a life saver. SY: So I interviewed a guy just last month or a couple weeks ago and he was also an officer. He was also a logistics guy behind the scenes, but it was in Iraq and as we know there's no real distinction between combat and noncombat anymore. And he was describing when he came back, it took him a while to realize that he had some of the signs of PTSD. He needed the quick fix. He had the hypervigilance. He was seeking out thrills and things like that. And I'm wondering if -- it was talked about less in Vietnam, especially if you'd come back and function, it wasn't talked about at all. But did you when you came back experience trouble adjusting back into a civilian -- not civilian because you're still in but? RL: Well I think maybe I had a sense of -- I was self-sufficient you might say. I could handle my emotions. I could -- so I'm self-sufficient you might say, not a loner, but able to cope 20 you might say better than others. And because of my background, because of how I was brought up, because of everything, that all contributes to how you adapt and can assimilate all that happens to you in a combat zone when you come back and try to come back into the community. The associations you have with your family, the associations you have with people, how you view the world and everything else, all of that's a factor in what affects you up here in your head. SY: Claire, can you tell them to be quiet nicely? F2: Sure. RL: See that all affects how you look on life. And so from that standpoint I would say that I didn't come back with a lot of anxiety, I came back to a world that was safe, the world that hadn't been effected by war, a world that I didn't have to watch out. SY: Was it strange to like sleep in a nice comfortable and to eat delicious food? RL: No. SY: It just was easy? RL: It was easy. I assimilated right back in. But I tell you, that's based on attitude too. And you got to realize this, you don't always sleep on the floor. You don't always sleep and live out of a rucksack. There were cantonment areas and things like that. In Vietnam it was like they were trying, because the war wasn't popular, is they tried to bring all the comforts of home to Vietnam. So for the combat troops when they weren't out in the field, they could come back to a cantonment area with all -- good food, rest, relaxation, et cetera, et cetera. And they also had the R&R where they could go over to Australia or to Japan or wherever and Thailand. So there were certain things and they tried in Vietnam to try to keep guys in combat maybe six months and then six months in a rural area. So there's all different aspects that you have to consider when you look how a person's going to react when he comes back. SY: Are there any, I don't know -- when you think about Vietnam, I don't know how often you think about it now. Are there smells, images, feelings that you remember, anything that sticks with you? One guy, I read his memoir, he talked about the smell because they were burning poop where he was living. RL: That was up at a cantonment area. We had the outside latrines and all that and they had to do it to get rid of it. A lot of times in the Orient you'll find they'd throw it on their fields, in the rice, and all that. They use it for fertilizing. Well the Germans did too and animal manure was – used as fertilizer. SY: Welcome to Vermont spring. RL: Well you had the old honey wagon. So in Germany they used to pour it onto the fields. And that's why you had to be careful of what you ate and things like that, especially in the Orient. What I remember about Vietnam, the food, not the American but I mean the 21 Vietnamese food. I do remember the time where there was during the Tet Offensive a lot of rocket attacks right across the street from where I was staying and the presidential palace wasn't too far, like two blocks away. The thing was that the rocket attacks would come in and then I remember one morning they heavily rocketed that area and the concussions and the noise you hit the floor, and then I ran outside because right across the street there was a Vietnamese family and a rocket had hit the house. And so this other fellow and I ran inside, up the rubble, actually the rubble, and got into the front entrance because the family had children. And we found the family, luckily nobody was hurt. They were underneath the stairs and they had been saved because they had taken shelter underneath the stairs where that closet or whatever it was saved them. And we hauled them out. I remember that. I remember working in the Saigon port and on the Saigon River. I remember that little incidence where we took ground fire. I remember little things like that. SY: Yeah, I bet the food was amazing. RL: The food was. I thought the food -- Oriental food can be quite good. When I was stationed in Korea I used to eat on the economy all the time. And you'd sit on a pillow and fold your legs and a lot of times they had a grill in front of you and things like that. I liked Korean beer. SY: Korean beer is good. I like Korean barbeque too. So we haven't gotten talk about you being -- you were a brigade commander right? RL: I was a brigade commander. SY: How many people were in your brigade? RL: It was thousands. I was a commander of the school brigade which had all the troops and students for the transportation school at Fort Eustis. SY: And the story you were telling of when you were staying in the World War II barracks and you had that -- RL: I was a battalion commander at Fort Bragg. SY: That was Fort Bragg? RL: That was Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I was commander of the seventh transportation battalion, had a long military history in that battalion. We had the only airborne car company still left in the United States army and that was left over from World War II. And the commander was a captain and he was on jump status because of the airborne car company, that was the connotation of it. And they were used -- that's why I say it's leftover from the Second World War. They also had an air delivery company, quartermaster company, where it was commanded by a major. And they did rigging for heavy drops, meaning vehicles, supplies, everything, and rigging the parachutes, and things like that. And because I had airborne troops in my battalion, my job also my slot was designated as an airborne slot. So at 44 I was still jumping out of airplanes.22 SY: Woah, so how'd your wife feel about that? RL: I had been married two years, three years at that time. And her father had been a 30 year veteran in the infantry, had been in the Second World War and that. And it's part of the job. SY: You were meeting a lot of people. So did you have any leadership challenges? How do you think you did as a leader? Were you the right mixture of approachable and intimidating? Did you think about that? RL: Well I guess if I had to self-evaluate, I was both because my commander expected -- he expected his commanders to be combat ready all the time and to be efficient and to get the job done regardless of the obstacles. There was a certain amount of pressure. Which therefore, you had to -- like they say, it rolls downhill. Now you had to say that at this time we had a volunteer army. Yeah, we were in a volunteer army. We had kids from all over the country. And we had to appeal to their sense of duty because that wasn't an eight to five job. I don't know where they ever got this idea. And the accommodations they lived in were not pleasant. They were the bunks and the World War II barracks, one latrine at the end. And the barracks were not in very good shape because that was the time of the Carter timeframe and they were cutting back on the forces. The money wasn't there. It wasn't being appropriated for repair parts or anything else so your vehicles were down a lot of time. You had to spend long hours to try to maintain and keep them going. And maintenance was one of the biggest problems with keeping the vehicles going, trying to make sure that the troops were taken care, and weren't put in such a state where they couldn't function. And we just did so many different things within the battalion because not only did I have truck company, I had Jeeps, I had an air delivery company, I had a Stevedore company that lifted the boxes and all that. So we had a challenge because we were multifunction, not just one focus. And we supported the 82nd airborne. And the 82nd airborne was -- they had three brigades. One brigade would be in the field and we had to support them. One brigade would be in garrison and we had to support them. And one brigade would be I'd say down, not deployable, they were resting after doing these other two. Well we had to support on a 24 hour, seven day basis, those two other brigades. We never had any down time. And that's why the vehicles had problems because we were running them all the time. And so it got to be a challenge, a real big challenge. But I was extremely proud of my battalion I encouraged my troops to be competitors. Fort Bragg there was very competitive with the 82nd airborne, the other troops there. They had boxing matches. We had combat football. We had air delivery competitions with the 82nd because they had their own air delivery unit. And I would say that my boxers, I reestablished and let some of my troops box, started taking championships. We beat the 82nd airborne in combat football, never been done before even though my commander who was a major at the time and was captain of our combat football team broke his collar bone. And it wasn't too long after that that they outlawed combat football because there were too many injuries. But the fact here is here was a support element, a transportation battalion, that went up against the combat troops, the 82nd airborne, and beat them in combat football, biggest thing. I was real proud of my troops. I had the championship women's basketball team at Fort Bragg. So esprit de corps is a very important thing and you got to give them a sense of accomplishment, not 23 only on the job but also in these other areas. So you try to encourage that. It's a difficult thing. It's a balancing act. It's like you have to keep all the balls up in the air at the same time and you have to learn how to do that. And it's not an easy thing. SY: Interesting. So I have two more questions for you and then Clark has some Norwich questions for you. But I also know time is an issue. My buddy Dick [Shultz?] told me a story. He discovered halfway through that I was Jewish. And then it was all over. He talked about -- he says you have some story about an airplane, it was in Vietnam, almost taking off or something, a Cold War story about if this airplane takes off, we're with war with Russia. I don't know, he remembered something. You don't know what he's talking about or you do? And you watched the plane hover and then it went down again. Maybe this wasn't Vietnam. Maybe this was Korea. I don't know. RL: I don't know. I was in South America one time and I was in special ops. I was Special Forces then. And one of the planes, it was a C123, which was an old prop driven. I mean you never see those today. And it was special ops. And the pilots, we were contour flying. Contour flying means you're right on the deck, bounding up and down because of the air drafts and everything else, and I remember this vividly. I was up with the pilots and these two guys -- you got to remember, air force guys I think are a little bit different than army guys. And they have to be for what they do. And these two pilots were up there just chatting away. I mean it was like they're having a cup of coffee down in the wherever and they were just chatting back and forth and this thing was bouncing up and down, up and down, and all across wise. And they were just having the grandest time. And you got to realize that it takes a special breed to do this. And it's the joy. I mean, I was a young guy and I just had the greatest time because -- and you have to have the competence though. And that's where you were talking about the training and everything else is so important. It's that these guys were able to do this, almost with their eyes closed. But the fact is, it was dangerous, what we were doing. And the helicopter I told you about being shot at and the pilot, as I say, I make light of it. But the fact was, we were taking ground fire and very well that chopper could've gone right there into the patties except for the pilot, again who I knew personally and had great confidence, and just pulled back on the pitch. And that thing, we didn't know if it was going to make it up or not because the rounds were hitting and if they'd hit the wrong part, we were done for. But this guy was just cool as hell, pardon the expression. He was. And that chopper, the vibration, it was just straining to get up over 1,000 feet where we get out of range of the ground fire. There were other things, but -- which one? There was a couple other things. But it was fun because you're young and you think you're invincible. And like you were talking about, how do you feel about -- some of these things you don't think about because you put it right out of your mind. And sometimes you put it out of your mind for a purpose. SY: Training plus testosterone. RL: And you just don't think about it after that too. Some of the things are so emotional that you don't. You put them out of your mind and you don't go back. That's just the way of life.24 SY: So one last question, people talk a lot about the military civilian divide. And you said that they're two different cultures. So you were in the military a long time and then you're retired. And so how do you interact with the civilian world? Do you feel different than the people around you who are civilians? Do you mostly spend time in military circles still? RL: No, when I left the service I never looked behind. And I went 180 degrees, gone the other way. SY: All right, what did you do? RL: I established my own business out of a hobby. I worked with antique clocks, 1700 and 1800. And I found that in order for me to establish a business, I had to go do these high end antique shows. And so I started doing high end antique shows, maybe was doing 15 or 16 a year -- I had a studio built off the back of my house. Business was by appointment only. And I had between 45 and 50 tall case clocks plus all these other clocks and things like that. And I'm down to about two shows a year now. And I used to be driving 40,000 miles a year to do the shows. But it gave me the latitude to be my own boss. It gave me the latitude to where if I didn't want to work seven days a week, 24 hours a day, I didn't have to because I had a young family. And I just didn't want to go back into the pressure cooker. The pressure cooker is what I call, even in my final days -- I had great jobs, one of them where I was the DCS for air transportation in the military airlift command, which is now melded into the transportation command at Scott Airforce Base. I was responsible for all the aerial reports and cargo and passengers all over the world. I had people all over the world. And so one time I left from Scott Airforce Base to the west coast to Hawaii, to Japan, to Korea, to Okinawa, to the Philippines, to Diego Garcia, to Turkey, to Germany, to Spain, to England, and home. So I only say that because I'm giving you the perspective that you can do anything in your military career. It depends on the field you're in. And one time I worked for the comptroller of the army as one of his executive assistants and was also congressional liaison for the appropriation committee with Congress. I worked with the Senate and the House of Representations when I was stationed in Washington. So what I'm trying to say is that a military career is not just one thing. I've had a varied career from combat arms to comptrollership to transportation to a multitude of other things, Special Forces and that. SY: But then you didn't want to go back. You wanted a job that wasn't that intense? RL: Well it was the fact is that that was me. Everybody's different and it was me. And I've been involved with Norwich since I was a class agent. And let me just tell you what I did because this is what I say to the Norwich grad is to keep active. I was a class agent for a while, then I was president of the alumni club in Washington DC. Then I went to the alumni board. Then I was president of the alumni association. Then I went to the board of trustees. Then I went to the Board of Fellows. Then I was chairman of the Board of Fellows. And then I had been a contributor with the Partridge Society and all of that. And I worked with the Colby Symposium for 20 years. And today they just appointed me as chair of the Friends of the Colby, the military author's symposium.25 SY: Cool, congratulations. Do you feel like Norwich -- it clearly prepared you for a military career. Do you think it also prepared you for your civilian career? RL: Sure. SY: How so? RL: I think that Norwich gave me an attitude. You know, it's an attitude and it's a level of confidence. Norwich University was the perfect match for me because it gave me the opportunity for leadership positions. I was the cadre every year I was here. And second it did, it gave me a great opportunity to meet combat vets because of the PMSNT and the cadre officers and that and to associate with some really find people. Thirdly, I met some great professors. Loring Hart was my English teacher. And I wrote an article for the Guidon one time and he wrote me a little note. He said, "Well done, you learned something." Little things like that that were feedback from the administration. Ernie Harmon who was the president at the time, I had met maybe four or five times. And when I was given an award or my diploma and the only other time I met him was when he chewed me out one time really bad when I was a corporal of the guard, and I mean really bad. SY: What did you do? RL: He drove up and parked his Cadillac and was going up to his office and I was the corporal of the guard. We were ready to take the flag down or something. And I didn't see him. But I didn't call the guard to attention or anything. And he just came over and chewed me out for not calling to attention and saluting him. And I said, "Yes sir." And the other time I met him was the time he called me into his office. And here's a good story for you. He called me in. He says, "I got a letter from your parents. They're concerned because you weren't accepted into advanced ROTC," because I failed the medical because of my eyes. And he says, "Do you want to be in advanced ROTC?" And I said, "Yes sir." He said, "Well this is what we're going to do." He told me exactly what he was going to do. He was going to get me my eye reexamined at Fort Ethan Allen and that the transportation would be provided for me and to report at such and such a time. And that was it, bang, gone. I went up to Fort Ethan Allen, went to the doctor there, doctor came from my home town. And he says, "What's the problem?" He says, "Well you got to be kidding me." He says, "During the Second World War with guys that were absolutely blind were in the infantry and they gave them two or three pairs of glasses in case they broke one and they sent them off into combat." So he reexamined me and passed me and that's why I had a 30 year career in the army. And I spent a lot of time, when they said I couldn't be in the combat arms, I spent a lot of time in the combat arms. So I tell these cadets don't give up and the fact is you can be anything that you want to be, you just work for it. SY: Now, Clark you had a question. It was about this canoeing trip right? CLARK HAYWOOD: (inaudible) [01:41:05] that you got to, as I would say, as a young guy, you got to hang out with Homer Dodge. So what was Homer Dodge like?26 RL: Wonderful guy, just a wonderful -- and he had to be in his 90s. All right, I was stationed in Washington DC at the time and I was working in the Pentagon. And I was elected president of the alumni club in Washington. And so my wife and I, we looked at what we could do to be interesting for the group, to bring him in. So I contact Dr. Dodge and asked him if I went down and picked him up -- now he was down in Pawtucket and Camorra, Cremini or something plantation. He had a beautiful home right on the Pawtuxet River, old, old home. And I said if we come down and pick you up and bring you up for the meeting and then take you home. Well that was like two hours down, two hours back. Anyway, he agreed to that. So my wife and I went down and he addressed the group. And by the time it was all finished, we got home at like one or two o'clock in the morning after driving him home. And he invited us to come back and spend the day with him. So we did. Now he was a canoeist. If you read his bio and that, he was a pretty serious canoeist. And at the age that he was, he was still canoeing. I couldn't believe it. And he had it all upstairs. He hadn't lost a bit. He had not lost a bit physically and everything else. And his stature, he wasn't a very tall guy, but he says, "Come on." He says, "I want to go in the marshlands along the river here and we'll go canoeing." So my wife and I got the canoe out and all three of us got in and he paddled us around and showed us all this marshland and things like that. And we just had a great time. And we had lunch together down there. And so that's how my connection with another president, he was president from 1944 to 1950, and then Ernie Harmon came in. And then Barksdale Hamlett I think came in after Ernie. And I knew him. And then it was Loring Hart. And then it was Russ Todd. Then it became Rich Schneider. I knew every one of these guys. I worked with them because of my association with the school. SY: So what about -- you've seen Norwich change a lot over the years. And how do you feel about the changes? Your alumni are sometimes very pro and very anti, it's interesting. RL: Well you have to realize that our society has changed. And when females came into the corps, well that was a big thing. Well at the same time I was working in Washington. And as I told you, women in the army, that's what I worked on. SY: So you did work on that? You worked on making that happen. RL: Yeah. I was briefing the generals. Remember I talked about those reports and I used to throw them on the floor to laugh because this was all the statistics they were providing because we were trying to integrate women into the army in certain MOSs by grade and MOS so there weren't any big bubbles, you see, because for promotion and everything else. And so this was a big thing that the Pentagon was concerned about. And they were getting a lot of court action, litigation. So we were an important part of the personnel system to make all this happen in a logical way. And that was where my commander because of the group I was leading gave me a special award and also recommended me for the Pace Award which was a very prestigious thing. I didn't get it, but the point is that he thought enough of me to recommend me for it. And that's what counts in life is that at least you get recommended for some of these things. But seeing that in the corps, so that didn't bother me at all because I had women in my battalion. And they were some of my best officers and best NCOs. Now I will say we did have some problems with women in the army and that was with -- and the only thing I want to mention here is lesbianism. 27 We did have issues of that. And that's changed too. You got to know what the period of the time was and the problems that we were confronted with which we hadn't confronted before. So they were new to us. So in order to be concerned about protecting troops and everything else, you had to reorient yourself. And that's the most important thing. The issue why I say that is to be able to be flexible enough to adapt to a new change and to be behind it and to understand it and support it. Now if you don't -- there were times where I don't agree with everything that happens at Norwich but at the same time I understand this is a big operation here. It's grown so much that the opportunities for these cadets -- they're busy all the time. All the opportunities are so much greater than what we had when I was going to school. And the other thing is that you've got civilians here too. And those are all different problems that you have to work through so there's no favoritism towards one body or towards the other. And that's why I say with a Colby symposium is that we have to incorporate the civilians as well as the military. So the subjects have to be such as that they relate to both sides. And therefore they interconnect and therefore what we're trying to do is enrich the student's experience. And what I say is think outside the box. You can't be just focused with blinders on. If you do that then you're missing a lot. And you're missing a lot in life too. SY: That might be a good note to end on. Clark, any other questions? CH: Yeah, do you have any anecdotes of any of the presidents that you worked with at all, just funny or anything serious that you learned, like insights from the past? RL: Well Ernie Harmon was -- he'd watch you from his window as you walked your tours and all that. He was gruff. He was fair. And I didn't have a lot of contact with him. The awards, the diploma, and when it was necessary. Other than that, you didn't want to have any experience with him from that standpoint because it might be negative. That's what you didn't want because Ernie, he was a tough guy, but he was fair. SY: Any interactions with his wife? RL: No, none. None whatsoever. SY: I'm reading her autobiography right now. RL: You're a cadet and you're talking in the 1950s. And we're isolated then because we didn't have '89 up here. And that's what I think -- that's what made our class just hang together, the comradery and the fraternities and everything else. And that's why I think even today with our class, we hang together. Maybe it's other classes. It just happens that maybe I'm looking at just my class, but then you went from there to Hamlett who was a gentleman. He only was here for a little while. I think he got sick or had cancer or something and left. So it was limited experience there. But then Loring Hart came in. Now he was my English professor. And I have to say that Loring Hart drew me back into Norwich, he did, because I was in the alumni club, but he says you got to come back to Norwich. And he used to stay with me when I was the president. He used to stay in our home, he and his wife Marylyn. And she was a delightful person. SY: I'm trying to track her down.28 RL: I think she died. She's passed away. Either that or she's in a -- SY: A nursing home? RL: Yeah, extended care. And I'll mention that in just a minute. But Loring Hart was an academician and at the time -- each one of these presidents that we're talking about was the man for his time. That's what they needed. And then of course they outlived their time and so then they bring somebody else. So Loring was the academician. I think he brought people together. He certainly was a favorite of mine. I used to stay with him when I came up for the meetings. That's because we were friends. And that friendship developed after Norwich, after I graduated. When Loring left and Russ Todd came on, Russ and I talked -- General Todd and I talked a lot because I was on the trustees at that time. And he was the right man for the time because of the military aspect, that's what they needed. But I will say this, that Rick Schneider when it was his time to do it -- and he's been here, what, 20 some years. He brought characteristics or elements of all the presidents previously you might say. And why I say that, maybe not in the intensity of an Ernie Harmon, but he came with his military background with the Coast Guard. Second was his finance background, which is a Godspeed because he understands that you can't do anything unless you have the money to do it. And that is a big plus in the atmosphere that we operate in today. He also is able to work with people. Therefore, he's been able to advance the university in certain areas. And he's given them the latitude to do that, where we've gotten more prestigious things that are necessary in a university. Now he's working on the campaign for the bicentennial which he knows that may be part of his legacy is the fact that he leaves the school financially better off than when he came in, which is a very important thing because if we're to perpetuate this for longevity, we need the financial endowment. A lot of big schools have these huge endowments over the years. But you got to realize that in the early years, even in the '60s and the '70s, there was a very small endowment. And there wasn't a lot of money being given. But after that with technology a lot of our graduates have done extremely well. And they've been very generous with giving back to the school. So that's an important element as we look at our history in the 20th century and now in the 21st century is how things have changed from that standpoint. The university's changed because of the physical plant, because of the civilian population. And yet we're still getting great admission in the cadet corps. So the core values of the university, the concept of citizen soldier, has got to be preserved because that's the main stay as far as I'm concerned of the university. And when I came to this school, I had no intention of going into the military as a career. I took business and I expected to go into the business world. SY: And so why do you think you did? RL: As I progressed, everybody had to go in and had a military obligation regardless. I don't know how it developed. It just developed. I was always one of these people who was willing to take on responsibility and I was a cadre member the whole time. I did well at summer camp. And I was involved with all of these organizations here. SY: You were good at it.29 RL: Well I was interested in it. I was interested, like the honor committee and all these committees. But the point being is that I did well so I had the opportunity to -- I was a distinguished military graduate. I had the opportunity to accept an army commission. And I said, "Why not? Twenty years, get my masters, and go out in the business." Well I got to that point where I had my master's and 20 years and I got promoted early to colonel. And I had young kids and everything. I loved the military. So I just stayed in for 30. But how did I get into, it was Norwich. I didn't have any intention of coming into the military like a lot of these young men and women come into the school today. I had no idea that I would spend 30 years in the army. But I had a great career. I had great opportunities, great assignments, and so you look back on your life and you say, "Gee, I've been lucky." But I have to say that I was prepared academically before I came to Norwich, how to study, because the grades are important. And Norwich developed me after that. I don't know what more I can say. SY: I'm worried about you catching your plane. RL: No, no, don't worry about that. I'll catch that plane. I know how to do it. As long as they don't ticket me for speeding. SY: I think we're good. Thank you for coming back today. RL: Well you can edit anything out of that you want. END OF AUDIO FILE

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Hacks, Carriages, Wagonettes, Double Teams, Riding Horses, Large Wagons Capable of Holding Sixty Persons at a Time. COMPETENT GUIDES FOR THE BATTLEFIELD. CHAS. J. SPALDING, Proprietor. -^!S)|'Mn™ imimmiiimiiniimini ■muni .MM i I1'! milmniilllllinn :■#- Gettysburg Carriage Works, CHAS. J. SPALDING, Proprietor. WEST MIDDLE STREET. BUILDER OF « REPAIRING PROMPTLY DONE. QETTYSiURG COLLEGt UB*A« GETTYSBURG, PA. ^i^° ADVERTISEMENTS. F- D. SCHRIVER, Draper, Importer, • AHD JVterehant Tailor, 23 Baltimore Street, GETTYSBURG, PA. The College Mercury. Vol. I. Gettysburg, Pa., March, 1893. No. 1. THE COLLEGE MERCURY, Published each month during the college year by the Students of Pennsylvania (Gettysburg) College. STARK. Editor : GELLERT ALLEMAN, '93. Associate Editors : MARION J. KLINE, '93. FRED. H. KNUBLE, '93. PAUL W. KOLLER, '94. NIELS L. J. GRON, '93. JOHN J. BRALLIER, '93. FLAVIUS HILTON, '93. Business Majtager; G. FRANK TURNER, '93. Assista7it Business Manager: BENJAMIN R. LANTZ, '94. T™,.r . f One volume (ten months), . fii.oo iERUS'l Single copies, 15 Payable in Advance. All Students arc requested to hand us matter for publication. The Alumni and ex-members of the College will favor us by send-ing information concerning their whereabouts, or any items they may think would be interesting for publication. All subscriptions and business matters should be addressed to the Business Manager. Matter intended for publication should be addressed to the Editor, Address, THE COLLEGE MERCURY, Gettysburg, Pa. eONTENTS. DEDICATORY, i EDITORIAL I COLLEGE LOCALS, 3 GENERAL COLLEGE NEWS, 7 ALUMNI, 8 FRATERNITY NOTES, 10 ATHLETICS, 12 TOWN AND SEMINARY 13 LITERARY SOCIETIES, . . . 14 DEDICATORY. Up and down went Mercury, In classic days of yore ; Down from proud Olympus' height Jove's messages he bore ; Up and down and up again He went on winged feet, The faithful herald of the skies, Willing, prompt, and fleet. Up and down throughout the land Our MERCURY shall go, College chat and college news To scatter high and low. Up and down goes mercury, In a house of glass ; Down it glides with falling leaves, Up with springing grass; Touched by warmth of summer days, Or chill of autumn rain, Up and down and up it goes, And down and up again. Up and down, 'twixt smile and sigh, Our MERCURY shall go, College toil and college fun Faithfully to show. MARGARET R. HIMES. EDITO-RIAL. THE COLLEGE MERCURY doffs its cap and makes its bow to the reader. It seems eminently proper at this point to make a statement concerning the origin of this magazine, and to outline the policy proposed for the future. The Pennsylvania College Monthly, now The Gettysburg College Monthly, was established 16 years ago by action of the Faculty. It is now edited and owned, not by the students, but by a member of the Faculty, and whatever benefits arise from the publication do not go to the stu-dents- or societies but to an individual. The sentiment is universal among the students that THE COLLEGE MERCURY. the magazine should be in the hands of the students for the following reasons : That the precedent of the great majority of the college publications is that the journals are under the exclusive control of the students. That whatever profits may arise from the publication of a college journal should be de-voted to the literary societies. That the Gettysburg College Monthly is not thoroughly representative of the student-body and the institution. That should the students edit and publish the magazine they would feel a responsibility which they could not possibly realize under the present circumstances. Furthermore, the Alumni and friends of the college would be brought into closer contact with the institution and more readily understand its needs. Although the matter had been talked over for some time, nothing was accomplished till a self-constituted committee took charge of the affair and gave it their earnest attention. Vari-ous plans were proposed and discussed, and it was decided that the committee ask Dr. Bikle, with the consent of the Faculty, to turn over the College Monthly into the hands of the Liter-ary Societies, and in case he decided not to do this, to ask the Faculty for permission to pub-lish the new magazine. Dr. Bikle was seen and asked under what consideration he would turn the Monthly over to the students. As no conclusion was arrived at by the Doctor, the matter was presented to the Faculty, and that body was asked either to con-cur with Dr. Bikle in handing the magazine over to the societies, or, in case of the failure to grant the request, to give permission for the publication of a new journal, to be under the exclusive control of the students. After care-ful deliberation the Faculty decided to take a position of neutrality, which will be seen from the following action : " In the matter of the petition of certain stu-dents requesting permission to publish a ' Monthly.Periodical' to be conducted by stu-dents we take the following action : " WHEREAS, The College Monthly, now in existence, was established by the Faculty in in-terest of the college and has successfully represented these interests for 16 years, "Resolved, That we cannot encourage, but at present we do not object to the publication of another journal. "Resolved, That if the publication is made the Board of Editors shall be held personally responsible to the Faculty for all matters pub-lished." A joint session of the Phrenakosmian and Philomathasan Societies was held, and the matter laid before the joint body. The committee asked the members to express their attitude toward the project. After a thorough discussion of the plans, full confidence was expressed by a unanimous vote. The result of the endeavor is before the reader. At the first meeting of the Societies, THE COLLEGE MERCURY will be formally handed over to the Societies, and they will elect editors and managers to continue its publication. A word as to the future : It will be the object of this magazine to give the news of the college and alumni, and to discuss the questions relating to the welfare of the institu-tion. In order that we may successfully ac-complish these objects we must have the hearty co-operation of every one, and we earnestly solicit the Alumni as well as others interested in us to send in contributions and news that would be interesting for publication. Some one has said : " No college man squares his account with his Alma Mater with the payment of his last term's bill. He still owes her more than Desdemonia owed father and lover both, and among the most important and simplest of those duties is to subscribe for, read and encourage in every possible way the publication of the students of his own college." The students will do all in their power to make THE MERCURY an interesting and successful publication. Let all our friends do their part. / THE COLLEGE MERCURY. We are indebted to the Swartlimorc Phmnix, yhich we have taken as a model in the form land arrangement of our publication. WITH this issue a new feature is added to the curriculum of our college. We ight say the students have endowed a new chair—the editorial chair. The knowledge gind experience gained by the editing and anaging of a college paper cannot easily be ver-estimated. The intellect and judgment like are trained. The precautionary means :o keep out all objectional matter, the solicit-g and selecting of articles, the writing of criticisms on books and magazines, the reading ofproof sheets, the bringing of the managers in connection with the outside business world—all these are in themselves forces which are power-ful auxiliaries in developing the faculties of the tudent. We stated that the students endowed his chair. We should add that the endow-ment is not yet completed. Send in your sub-scription and aid in accomplishing the object. V THE growth of college publications during the last decade has been phenomenal. The first college that started on the venture of issuing a periodical was Dartmouth, and Daniel Webster was selected as the first editor of the aper. The prospects shortly afterward were not o encouraging, and the publication of college magazines did not spring up in very rapid suc-cession. But a new impetus was given to the atter a few years ago, and each college felt an urgent need for representation through its own periodical. To-day 13 colleges and uni-ersities publish daily papers and quite a num-ber publish weeklies. The whole number of daily, weekly, and monthly publications edited and published by the students of the various colleges at the present time is 217. This cer-tainly looks like evolution in college jour-alism. ^ * * N a few days a new administration will take charge of affairs at Washington. In hinking over some of the events that have transpired during the last four years, we have been struck with one thing particularly—the alarming depletion within the ranks of the great men of our country. Many who, on ac-count of their farsightedness and pre-eminent qualifications, have stood in the vanguard as counsellors of our nation have, during the last administration, been " stricken from the things that be." Whitman', Whittier, and Lowell, whose verses have been the solace and delight of many, will not be permitted to add to their collection by the addition of a single line. Sherman will plan no more campaigns nor will he tell again the deeds of heroes of the past. Lamar will hand down no more judicial deci-sions, and the eloquent voice of Blaine will ne'er again be heard in his country's behalf. These are dead. But no man is indispensable. He falls, but some one steps in and takes his place in the ranks. The question comes to us : Who are the men who are to fill these positions ? The contest for position is a competitive one, with the nation as examiner. Those who expect to win must be men of thorough preparation, in order that they may be able to deal with the exigency that may arise under circumstances which are unforeseen. Experience has been said to be the best school, but preliminary to this experience must be the camp-life of drill, discipline, and acquisition of knowledge. And this discipline is best obtained in a college. The opportunities present themselves, and the men who are masters of the situation are the ones who will be intrusted with the responsi-ble positions. These facts certainly have a peculiar significance to college men. COLLEGE LOCALS. MARION J. KLINE, Editor. ACKNOWLEDGMENTS. THE following collections for the Contin-gent Fund of Pennsylvania College are gratefully acknowledged : . . St. James, Ashland, Rev. Wm. M. B. Gland- THE COLLEGE MERCURY. ing, pastor, $4.75 ; St. James, Phillipsburg, N. J., Rev. T. C. Pritchard, pastor, $5.00; Christ's, Gettysburg, $20.73; St. Paul's, Allentown, Rev. J. A. Singmaster, pastor, $7.50; Newport, Rev. S. E. Smith, pastor, $4.36; Apollo, Rev. M. L. Culler, pastor, $5.00; Coalpark, $1.72, and Glascow, $3.96, Rev. W. M. Spangler, pastor; Meyersdale, Rev. M. L. Young, Ph. D.i pastor, $5.00; York, Rev. M. J. Alleman, D. D., pastor, $1.00; Christ's, Baltimore, Rev. L. M. Zimmerman, pastor, $10.00; Stoyes-town charge, Rev. E. S. Johnston, pastor, $7.25 ; St. Paul's, Easton, Rev. R. W. Hufford, D. D., pastor, $23.07; Altoona, Rev. E. J. Metzler, pastor, $2.81; Maytown charge, Rev. W. H. Harding, pastor, $3.10; St. Luke's, York, Rev. G. S. Bowers, pastor, $2.00; Clarion, Rev. H. E. Wieand, pastor, $5.50; Spring Forge, Rev. A. A. Parr, pastor, $33.00; Ta-neytown, Md., Rev. G. W. McSherry, pastor, $6.60 ; St. Mark's, Hanover, Rev. C. M. Stock, pastor, $16.00; St. John's, Mahanoy City, Rev. I. P. Zimmerman, pastor, $6.81; St. Peter's, Easton, Rev. Edgar G. Miller, pastor, $6.60; St. Peter's, Middletown, Rev. F. W. Staley, pastor, $14.00; Trinity, Hazleton, Rev. John Wagner, pastor, $5.00; Personal Contribution, $5.00; Zion, Chambersburg, Rev. E. H. Leis-enring, pastor, $13.85; Westminster, Md., Rev. S. A. Diehl, pastor, $5.00; Zion, Leb-anon, Rev. W. H. Dunbar, D. D., pastor, $25.49; Second Church, Baltimore, Rev. G-W. Miller, D. D., pastor, $5.00; Zion, Harris-burg, Rev. D. M. Gilbert, D. D., pastor, $22.61; Arendtsville charge, Rev. D. F. Koser, pastor, $5.00; Friend's Cove charge, Rev. W. H. Set-tlemyer, pastor, $4.75; Grace, Westminster, Md., Rev. P. H. Miller, pastor, $6.00; First Church, Carlisle, Rev. H. B. Wile, pastor, $25.00; Trinity, Allegheny, Rev. J. G. Joett-man, D. D., pastor, $25.00; Blairsville, Rev. F. J. Crissman, pastor, $6.54; Trinity, Milton, Rev. J. M. Reimensnyder, pastor, $6.00; St. John's, Lancaster, Rev. B. F. Alleman, D. D., pastor, $8.00; Jefferson, Md., Rev. T. A. Hedges, pastor, $3.50; Leistersburg charge, Md., Rev. V. Miller, pastor, $6.43 ; Glade, Rev. A. B. Miller, pastor, $4.00; Messiah, Philadelphia, Rev. M.Valentine,pastor, $25.00; Trinity, Hagerstown, Md., Rev. E. W. Delk, pastor, $12.50. Total amount of returns to March 20th, $414.53. H. W. MCKNIGHT. LOCALS. Dr. M.—" To what declension does ' Der Mensch, Die Menschen ' belong ?" Mr. R., of '93.—" Feminine." A pious Sophomore says his motto is " Watch and pray." Beware Socio. It undoubtedly " would not hurt the ('adja-tive') Sophomore to learn a little English even in the German department." Prof. H.—" Give an illustration of the sec-ond law of the syllogism." "The law of contraries." Mr. M., of '95.—A black board must be either white or black ; it cannot be both at the | same time." This is almost as brilliant as the sign " white-washing in all colors." Messrs. H., of '94, and W., of '95, report that I they have changed their shooting gallery in West College into a dime museum. Among other attractions they have an exhibition of the quarrel scene between Brutus and Cassius every ten minutes. Makers of " horses " and translators of Hor-ace take notice of the latest rendering, by a very I bright and original Soph., of the passage, " ut I cantat absentum amicitam," " as he sings of the girl he left behind him." Hanover on top. Mr. B., of'93, says that international law on sea prevents fishermen from fishing on a strip of land. (Class laugh.) Mr. B.—" I don't see anything to laugh at. Prof. H.—"No; except that fishermen] usually do not fish on land." THE COLLEGE MERCURY. 5 Mr. ]., of '95.—"You fellows ought to be glad that I am the only J-n-s in college. It is a wonder there are not a dozen of them. Just wait until I send my ancestors here. I mean my prodigy." Mr. R., of '95, talks grandiloquently and orates eloquently of "petted larceny." Possibly they designate it in that way in New York. One of our fair Juniors received a photo of \five young ladies on St. Valentine's Day. Johnny, are you thinking of emigrating to Utah ? President K., of Philo (after several of our " co-eds " have been initiated).—" It has been moved and seconded that we take up the head of new members," and then after the applause had subsided, " It has been moved and sec-onded that we be under the head of new mem- Ibers." Mr. R., of'93, is making remarkable prog-ress in the study of Geology. He often hires a horse and buggy to study the granite forma-tions near Gettysburg. " Ring the bell and let the curtain drop." Mr. W., of'95 (examining a fancy beer-tank-ird in a friend's room).—" This is the funniest molasses-jug I ever saw. Why, it has no Spout to it." Mr. B., of '93 (after he has been told to let in idea percolate through his cranium).— ;" Chum, does that mean ' swelled head' ?" Dr. S.—" What is an artificial ventilation ?" Mr. N., of '93.—" Artificial ventilation is -ah! not natural ventilation." Wasn't that a jem of a thought ? Prof. H.—" What do you have to say about the ' remedies of love' ?" Mr. H., Jr., of '95 (who is reading Chau- ! cer).—" Professor, I don't know ; I have never [experienced them." Eat pickles, old boy. Our Baltimore City Soph., in speaking of laking hay, says : " You must never put lay in a barn when wet, because it will catch on fire. Now, I know, because I used to make hay for my goat." Corn-cake and molasses, " Reddy." Mr. E., of '95 (after having heard the ele-phant joke).—" The blind man stuck his trunk in the grate and flew." Mr. N. L. J Gron, '93, recently delivered his lecture on " Scandinavia, the Land of the Midnight Sun," to a large and appreciative audience in the chapel of Trinity Lutheran Church, Lancaster, Pa. The Daily Examiner says : " The lecturer is a young man, with a pleasing personality, and a manner of delivery which at times is very oratorical, and at all times entertaining. He treats his subject skillfully and connectedly." Mr. Gron also delivered his lecture at New-ville on February 23d to a large and delighted audience. Our " Homeric friend," of '94, has given up his idea of theology, and has decided to make his debut on the stage as a " skirt dancer." Another evil effect of Juvenal's satires. The Sophomores and Freshmen have adopted class colors. The Sophomore colors are garnet and black. The Freshmen colors are copper and apple-green. The University Extension course in the Constitutional History of the United States has just been completed. The lectures were fairly well attended, but the class work before the lectures was the more popular. The centre decided on a course in history, to be given during the fall term. The Senior class have appointed a commit-tee to have charge of the Commencement exer-cises exclusive of class-day. All the duties which may devolve upon the class in connec-tion with their graduation will be in charge of this committee. Messrs. Hain, Turner, Ehr-hart, Sr., Dundore, and Bortner are the com-mittee The committee recently appointed to ar-range for a Senior class banquet are Messrs. THE COLLEGE MERCURY. Diffenderfer, Gron, Baum, Leitzell, and Wolfe. The class anticipate a very enjoyable and pleasant time. Mr. H., of '93, translating from Plato's Pli&do: " And the stones here that are so highly prized are but fragments of them, as the sardine stones, jaspers, and emeralds." Mr. B., of '95, after having gazed long and earnestly at the picttire of a lover embracing his lady-love, turns the back of the picture around and, after some mediation, says: " Chum, where is the back of that fellow's arm ?" Prof. D., of"93, bids fair to rival Edison as an electrician. We would advise the latter gentleman to look to his laurels. Dr. B.—" In Germany the people often go to the beer gardens and sit down with a paper, and while they read they drink their beer, not from an ordinary beer-glass, but from a large —I can't recall the name just now—what is it!" Mr. L., of '96.—" Schooner, do you mean, Doctor ?" Dr. B.—" That's it; you seem to be familiar with the subject." Dr. B.—" What kind of a question does ■nortpov introduce?" Mr. B., of '96.—" An interrogative question." Undoubtedly correct. Mr. K.—" Why are some pavements like a man who has the rheumatism ?" Papa H.—" Because they are subject to changes in the weather." A first class student, a Freshman, had on previous occasions acted the Cavalier and es-corted Miss T. over Balto's hill. He was greatly chagrined one evening as she unmer-cifully informed him that his service was no longer desired. We may truly infer from this that Miss T. already possesses an Ice{eii)-lieart. The following has been adopted as the song of the Sophomore class. It was composed by J. H. Diehl, and is adapted to tune, " March-ing through Georgia." We're the boys of ninety-five, who'll sing for you a song, Class of all the college pride that cheers the boys along j Singing our delightful song with five and forty strong While we are students of Gettysburg. CHORUS. Hoop ! Lah ! Boom ! Yah ! we all are yet alive ! Hoop ! Lah ! Boom ! Yah ! great class of ninety-five ! So we sing the chorus over in our college life While we are students of Gettysburg. How the Freshies trembled when they heard that we were strong, How thy gathered all their men to fight our mighty throng ; How they summoned all the Juniors out to aid their throng. While we are students of Gettysburg. Oh ! my fellow Sophomores, you always are so true When we fight in Roman wars, in Greek and German, too; For we never shall forget the way we did pursue While we were students of Gettysburg. Yes, and we are jolly boys who came here to obtain Knowledge for our eager minds, which we will ne'er dis-dain ; So that every one shall feel that work was not in vain While we were students of Gettysburg. The Chess Club is now doing regular prac-tice. As chess is the most intellectual of all games, it may, more than any other game, in-dicate the intellectual power of an institution. Our Club has had several challenges from other colleges which it will most likely accept. The members are : Niels S. J. Gron, '93 ; Geo. Baum, '93 ; Horace Whitman, '95; Herbert | Richards, '95 ; Henry Clare, '95 ; Charles ¥■ Wiest, '95. MUSICAL CLUBS. Our college has for several years been striving to organize musical organizations to compare favorably with the other colleges of I the land, and has finally succeeded in organiz- [ ing one of the best equipped clubs of the country. The organization consists of a Glee Club of I 17 members, who have been under the instruc-tion of a competent musician from Harrisburg, and have been in daily training for several months. They sing comic glees, serenades, in mi)» THE COLLEGE MERCURY. and"have a splendid college song called "■ Get-tysburgia," composed by Mr. Hoffmann, '95, a young man of fine musical talent, who promises to make his mark in this line as well as in instrumental music. The Banjo Club consists of 10 men under the direction of Mr. Hersh, '91, and is as finely a developed club as can be found in any college in the land. A banjo burlesque, by Messrs. Hoffmann and Madara, are one of its special features. The club has no equal among college clubs for uniformity of time. The Mandolin Club of eight members, the only college Mandolin Club to-day-, except Harvard, renders on their sweet Spanish mandolins the tender, soul-touching strains which only can be rendered on that instrument by trained men. Mr. Baum, '93, the leader of the club, is an ex-perienced artist, and the guitar accompan-ists are led by C. G. Bikle, '92, a competent musician. Prof. C. E. Leslie, the famous musician and composer of Chicago, says of the clubs; " They are far .above the average college club in time and harmony." Prof. John De Motte, of Indiana State University, says: " They cannot be excelled in time or expression save by professionals." The opening concert was given in Brua Chapel, Gettysburg, February 22d, to a large and appreciative audience; the clubs were encored again and again, the vocal solo, by Mr. Herr, '97, was vigorously applauded, as was Mr. Hoffmann's " Gettysburgia." The " Sueno De Amor," by the Mandolin Club, was considered as one of the sweetest strains of the mandolin ever rendered here. The " Merry Monarch," by the Banjo Club, is a production which called forth the loudest applause, and won for Mr. Hersh and his nine men the highest admiration. The lively strains of this selection are softened by Mr. Bannis' mandolin. On February 23d the clubs gave their enter-tainment at York, and at Hanover- on February 24th. The papers speak well of them. Manager Duttera has arranged the following dates for the clubs : Chambersburg, Pa., March 2d. Shippensburg, Pa., March 3d. Martinsburg, W. Va., March 9th. Hagerstown, Md., March 10th. Harrisburg, Pa., March 24th. He is just now arranging a trip through the central and northeastern parts of this State for Easter vacation. Members of the Faculty and fellow-students, the success of a good college musical organi-zation depends largely upon your support and encouragement. Alumni, you can assist in putting Alma Mater to the front, not only in athletics but in the sweetest gift of God— music, by giving us hearty and earnest co-operation. GENERAL COLLEGE NEWS. President Harper, of the University of Chi-cago, in a recent address said : " This Univer-sity is to stand for graduate work, first in the grade school and in the divinity school; and when the medical and law schools are estab-lished I shall be surprised if they admit any but graduates."—Ex. Chauncey Depew said to the students at Yale recently : "What made the class of '53 so famous is that half its members went into journalism and praised the other half."—Ex. Wednesday, February 22d, the Mechanics' Art Building at State College was dedicated. Prominent men from all parts of the country attended. Governor Pattison, Secretary of the Interior Noble, Francis A. Walker, and President Schurman, of Cornell, delivered ad-dresses. The celebration closed with '93's assembly ball.—Ex. The campus of the Leland Stanford Univer-sity covers 70,000 acres and contains a drive-way 17 miles in length.—Ex. 8 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. The matter of dealing with cheating at ex-aminations has been left in the hands of the student body at Princeton. A'committee ap-pointed from the students to investigate dis-honesty during the recent examinations found four men guilty and sentenced them to a dilemma—the choice of applying to the several professors for re-examination, or being recom-mended for expulsion. This leniency was granted on account of the offense being the first under the new regime. Hereafter no alternation to expulsion will be allowed. The students, put upon their honor, are determined to maintain honor. Thus it always works. This phase ofco-operation works amazingly well, and is actually the only successful method to enforce honest work. The offense allows no distinc-tion between giving help and receiving it. Harvard is another institution where women will be admitted, this time with the purchase price of $250,000. The sore for which this salve is always required is never stated. If it is proper to admit them at all, they should not be required to break down moss-covered walls of exclusion with gold and silver weapons. Many and varied estimates are made of the value of collegiate training, in known quantities, as so much invested, by so much cash. The fact remains, however, that it is a variable quantity and can hardly be reckoned as convertible capital. " Economically the money value of a college education depends on the man who possesses it, and is com-mensurate with the amount of labor expended in acquiring it." Here follows the yell of the theologues at De Pauw : " Hurrah ! hurrah ! hurrah ! the gospel does away with law, We're theologues of old De Pauw, a greater school none ever saw.—Amen !" Ex. The custom of wearing cap and gown is becoming more popular. The senior classes of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Amherst, Williams, and Dartmouth have adopted them. The JEgis says : " The three greatest things in college at present are the cap and gown, university extension, and foot-ball."—Ex. President Jordon, of the Leland Stanford, Jr., University, has given his ideas on the conser-vative custom of most American institutions : " College marks, college honors, college courses, college degrees—all these things be-long, with the college cap and gown and wreath of laurel berries, to the babyhood of culture. They are part of our inheritance from the past, from the time scholarship was hot manhood, when the life of the student had no relation to the life of the world." The number of "cuts " allowed in some of the leading colleges is as follows: Yale 24 per year to Juniors and Seniors; to Sophs and Freshmen, 18; Williams, 30; Dartmouth, 21. At Amherst and Wesleyan a student must be present at nine-tenths of the recitations. At Harvard, Ann Arbor, Cornell, and Johns Hop-kins the attendance is said to be optional.—Ex. ALUM/MI. FRED. H. KMUBLE, Editor. * • IN this, the first number of THE COLLEGE MERCURY, the Alumni Department is necessarily not as complete as it should be, since communication with the alumni can be commenced only after this issue. It is intended to make it a special feature of the paper in the future. It will contain a resume of all that is important in the doings of those who have in past days received instruction within the walls of Pennsylvania College. It will thus form in effect a history of Pennsylvania College men. The present student shall hear of what those who have gone before are making of life; the far-off graduate shall be brought into closer touch and sympathy with the other sons of Alma Mater. To all we hope to make the alumni notes readable, interesting, and attrac-tive. Brevity shall be another of their charac-teristics. No available source of information THE COLLEGE MERCURY. o shall be neglected, but we would earnestly in-vite correspondence and information from the alumni concerning either themselves or others. Let us hear from you, brothers. PHILADELPHIA ALUMNI REUNION. On Tuesday evening, January 31st, the Phila-delphiaAlumni Association held its tenth annual reunion and banquet at the Hotel Vendig. It was an enthusiastic and enjoyable gather-ing. When the menu had been discussed, the flow of soul" commenced. P. K. Erdman, '68, was symposiarch, and spoke to the toast: " Our Association." Other speakers and sub-jects were: Rev. H. W. McKnight, D. D, LL. D., '65, " Pennsylvania College ;" Rev. W. E. Parson, D. D., '67, " Mason and Dixon's Line;" Rev. L. E. Albert, D. D., '47, " Our Trustees;" Dr. J. Marshall, '76, "University of Pennsylvania." Other interesting speakers discussed interesting subjects. Alma Mater's praise ran high. Among those present, in addition to the aforementioned, were : Rev. W. M. Baum, D. D., '46; Rev. H. M. Bickel, D. D., "48; Prof. V. L. Conrad, D. D., '48; the Revs. A. H. F. Fischer, '80 ; M. H. Valen-tine, '82; M. R. Minich, '70; T. R. Beeber, D. D., '69; Sylvanus Stall, '72; Prof. Edgar F.' Smith, '74 ; Prof. G. D. Stahley, M. D., '71 ; Dr. G. E. Tetus, '74; Dr. W. R. Hoch, '77 ; Dr. J. C. Felty, '70; Dr. M. B. Hartzell, '74; Prof. S. P. Sadtler, '67; Mr. John E. Graeff, '43; Rudolph M. Shick, Esq., '60; Hon. B. F. Hughes, '71 ; T. D. Beeber, Esq., '74; James Strong, founder of the Strong Professorship of English Bible and Chaplaincy, and Mr. Wm. Buehler, '85. A set of resolu-tions were adopted, requesting the Board of Trustees of the College to give the Associa-tion representation on the Board. A reason-able request. At the tenth annual banquet of the Martin Luther Society, of New York, on February 10th, there were among the toasts the follow-ing : " The Past of the Lutheran Church in the United States," responded to by Rev. W. H. Dunbar, D. D., '71; "The Future of the Lutheran Church in the United States," Rev. J. B. Remensnyder, D. D., '61 ; " The Clergy," Rev. G. U. Wenner, D. D., '63. The speeches of all three gentlemen were highly commended by the large number of Lutherans present. On the evening of February 15th, Gettys-burg Lodge No. 124, I. O. O. F., held a banquet in Gettysburg for all the Odd Fellows of Adams County. The occasion is of inter-est to Pennsylvania College, inasmuch as among the guests were the following sons of hers : Mr. Hart Gilbert, '67 ; Rev. E. Manges, '70 ; Mr. A. A. Lechlider, '60 ; Rev. John F. Mackley, '78 ; Mr. N. L. J. Gron, '93 ; Mr. A. Reist Rutt, '93 ; Mr. John Axe, '91 ; Mr. J. F. Kempfer, '93. We obtained this informa-tion from one of the brethren. '44. Rev. P. Anstadt, D. D., of York, Pa., is temporarily supplying the pulpits of several of the churches of the Manchester, Pa., charge. '46. Rev. A. C. Wedekind, D. D., has left for San Diego, Cal, where his daughter resides. He intends to remain there. His health has improved somewhat. '51. Hon. David Wills left for Florida recently; his stay there will be short. '56. Rev. H. W. Kuhns, D. D., expects to be present at the next meeting of the General Synod, as a delegate from the Nebraska Synod. He will also attend the Commence-ment exercises of the college. '61. Rev. J. R. Williams was in town visit- . ing his son, R. Williams, '94. '62. Rev. S. B. Barnitz, D. D., Western Secretary of the Board of Home Missions, presented the special cause to the Gettysburg churches, Sunday, February 12th. He held a conference on Monday with the Seminary students. '65. Rev. H. W. McKnight, D. D., has been selected a member of the Advisory Board of IO THE COLLEGE MERCURY. the Columbian Religious Congress, and elected one of the Vice-Presidents of the Evangelical Alliance of the United States. As the Doctor's health is not of the best, he intends to make his Easter vacation somewhat longer by leaving Gettysburg several weeks before the close of the college term. '68. Rev. J. W. Richards, D. D., has, with the assistance of Rev. F. V. N. Painter, pub-lished a valuable book on Christian Worship ; Its Principles and Forms. Two chapters are contributed by Rev. M. Valentine, D. D., LL. D., '50. Dr. Richards expects to leave Europe for America early in April. 'yy. Rev. F. P. Manhart has been elected Financial Agent of Missionary Institute, Selinsgrove, Pa. 'jy. Rev. W. N. Baum, Jr., celebrated the tenth anniversary of his pastorate of St. Mark's Lutheran Church, Canajoharie, N. Y., on February 3d. He was the recipient of many tokens of regard from his devoted congrega-tion. '80. Rev. L. B. Wolf, with Dr. Kugler and Miss Dryden, took worthy part in the great conference at Bombay, India. There were 550 members of various denominations in at-tendance. '80. Rev. M. P. Hocker recently celebrated the tenth anniversary of his pastorate of St. John's Lutheran Church, Steelton, Pa. Statis-tics shown at the time indicate wonderful success in his work. Excellent progress is being made on the congregation's new church. '81. Rev. S. J. Taylor has received a very flattering call to the pulpit of St. Paul's Lutheran Church, Littlestown, Pa. '82. Rev. M. H. Valentine is doing well in his new charge in Philadelphia. '83. Rev. W. W. Anstadt, Huntington, Pa., has received a unanimous call from the English Lutheran Church of Bedford, Pa. '83. The congregation of Rev. L. N. Kuhns is contemplating the building of anew church." Rev. Kuhns is editorially active in Y. P. S. C. E. work. '84. J. B. Hileman, M. D., whose wherea-bouts has been asked for by several, is ex-amining physician for the Relief Department of the Pennsylvania Railroad. His office is at Broad and Filbert Streets, Philadelphia. '85. Rev. A. F. Richardson was installed as pastor of the Lutheran Church, Grafton, W. Va., on February 5th. '85. Rev. Chas. Reinewald was installed as pastor of the Lutheran Church, Emmettsburg, Md., on January 29th, by Rev. M. Valentine, D. D., LL. D., '50, and Rev. L. Kuhlman, '79, President of the Maryland Synod. '86. Rev. Prof. O. G. Klinger, A. M., de-livered the first of a series of lectures to the students of Irving College on February 10th. He is also President of a Chautuaqua Circle at Emmettsburg, Md. '88. The congregation of Rev. L. Goetz, Newberry, Pa., expects to build a church. Prosperity reigns in the charge. '88. Rev. L. S. Black will take charge of Christ Church, Gettysburg, about April 1st. '88. Rev. W. H. Harding was married to Miss Emma Minnick, of Wrightsville, Pa. Our congratulations and best wishes. '89. Concerning Rev. J. F. Seibert and his mission church at Ft. Madison, Iowa, Dr. Barnitz said: " I feel like falling upon my knees before that consecrated, successful young man." F-RATEHNITy MOTES. JOHN J. BRALLIER, Editor. ' Come rain, come snow, Rest wind, or blow, Or fair or stormy weather For yes, or no, With hearts aglow We stem the tide together. ***** ■MMMMMMMMMMHM THE COLLEGE MERCURY. II Time, change, and pain, Will strive in vain, To sever bands fraternal. O'er tide, o'er plain, We'll wear love's chain, And prove a bond fraternal." PHI KAPPA PSI. The next meeting of the District Councils of the Phi Kappa Psi Fraternity will be held on April 5th and 6th, 1893. District I will convene under the auspices of Pa. I. and K., at Philadelphia. Bros. H. W. McKnight and Geo. D. Stahley were present at the annual banquet of the Philadelphia Alumni Association, January 31st, 1893. Among the addresses delivered before that body was the very pleasing speech of Bro. McKnight. Bro. Geo. S. Bowers, '77, has recently been elected editor of York Lutheran. On Sunday, February 12th, Bro. Samuel Barnitz, Western Secretary of Home Missions, being in Gettysburg on performance of affairs pertaining to his office, spoke to audiences in the morning and evening, which were alike captivated by his methods and impressed with the wholesomeness of his matter. Bros. R. Kephart Russell, '95, and Luther P. Eisenhart were initiated on Jan. 28th, 1893. PHI GAMMA DELTA. Bro. Fitt, '98, is again out, having recovered from a two weeks' attack of the mumps. Bro. Blint, '90, preached at Chambersburg, Pa., on Sunday, February 12th. Graduate Chapters of F d have been organized at Seattle, Washington, and at Chicago. Bro. F. V. Filbert, '92, is being trained by manager Irwin, of the University of Pennsyl-vania Base-ball Team, along with pitchers Reese and Bayne, and will likely distinguish himself in the coming season. Bro. Huber G. Buehler, Professor of English, Lakeville Preparatory School, closed on account of scarlet fever, is home on a short visit. He gives a glowing account both of the school and the place. PHI DELTA THETA. Our number has lately been increased by the initiation of Bros. Barndt, '94, and Leitzell, '93- Bro. Beerits, who left us last Commence-ment, has just returned to his home at Somer-set, Pa., from Poughkeepsie, where he com-pleted a general business course. Bro. E. J. Cook, '92, is now occupying the position of Principal of Bel Air Academy, Md. He has under his supervision five assist-ants, and is meeting with good success. Bro. Addison, who left us last Commence-ment to accept a position in the Census Office at Washington, has been employed as private secretary of the Paymaster of the U. S. Navy. In this new position he will soon start upon a trip around the world. Our best wishes go with him. Phis who go to Washington March 4th will have the pleasure of seeing the out-going President, Bro. Harrison, '57, of Ohio Alpha, give place to the in-coming Vice-President, Bro. Stevenson, of Kentucky Alpha. ALPHA TAU OMEGA. Bro. Geo. E. Hipsley, '93, of Baltimore, Md., was initiated February 1st. Bro. Geo. A. Kyner, Esq., '89, of Chambers-burg, Pa., paid us a week's visit recently. A T Q, of Gettysburg, sends hearty greeting to THE MERCURY. May it live long and ever be truly representative of college life at Gettys-burg. One of the many things of interest to fra-ternity men who will go to the World's Fair will be the exhibit of College Fraternities. It will consist of catalogues, song-books, maga- 12 THE COLLEGE MERCURY. zines, badges, flags, banners, and souvenirs of chapters, coats of arms, pictures of chapter-houses, and photos of active and alumni chapters, and of prominent men of the differ-ent chapters. The exhibit promises to be a very good and interesting one, and well worthy the attention of all fraternity men. At present there is no little interest at the University of Chicago in regard to the fra-ternity question, while the Faculty have not outright forbidden the establishment of fra-ternity chapters, it is their opinion that such action is unadvisable. They have laid down certain rules by which a chapter, if it be estab-lished, is to be guided. The rules are, on the whole, very fair. Professor Frink, of Amherst, has lately, in an article on the " College Chapter-House," ex-pressed a very opposite opinion. He speaks in the highest terms of the fraternity move-ment, and " claims that the chapter-house is one of the strongest allies of the college and college discipline." The fraternity and chapter-house have been given their place in college life, and from present appearances are here to stay. They are not only tolerated, but are also recognized. ATHLETICS. PAUL W. ROLLER, Editor. ALTHOUGH this is winter and athletics are supposed to be hibernating, there are many things which can and must be done preparatory to the coming season. The base-ball manager must obtain a list of applicants for the respective positions and see to it that they take proper exercise in the gymnasium, not forgetting to secure a large number of good games, for how often have we with a superior team been compelled to play the en-tire season with inferior teams. The foot-ball manager and captain could be looking up a suitable coach and preparing a new code of signals. The matter of having a good coach to take the team in hand at the beginning of the sea-son is a very important one. We have been successful heretofore in plac-ing good teams in the field, and this can only be continued by hard and earnest preparatory work. A gymnastic organization known as the " Sons of Hercules " is preparing, under the supervision of physical director Pohlman and Mr. Povall, '96, to give an exhibition in bar and mat work. The exhibition will take place about the second week in March. The mem-bers are Povall, Rice, Snyder, Billheimer, Weist, Bastain, Roller, McCartney, and Rudi-sil. They are working hard and faithfully, and will give a very instructive and interesting performance. We look for an interesting and exciting season of base-ball under the management of Mr. Fickinger, '94. He is at present trying to secure as many games as possible. The fol-lowing is the list of secured and possible games. The secured games are: April 26th, Western Maryland, at Gettysburg. May 3d, " " at Westminster. May 26th, State College, at Gettysburg. May 30th, Indian School at Gettysburg. June 2d, Slate College, at State College. June 3d, Bucknell, at Gettysburg. The possible games are: three with Dickin-son, two with F. and M., return games with Indian School and Bucknell; also games with Lafayette, Lehigh, Johns Hopkins, St. John's, Columbia A. C, and Georgetown. The following men have applied for posi-tions on the team. Each man will be given a fair and impartial trial, and those making the best showing will be chosen as the team. The men are Keefer, Gies, Nicholas, Erb, Enders, Hoffman, Cook, Leisenring, Steitz, McCartney, Nicholas, Sr., Fair, Feldman, Williams, White, Gable, Lesher, Gilbert, and I THE COLLEGE MERCURY. 13 Tate. All others desiring to become appli-cants should report as soon as possible to the manager so as to obtain the benefit of the training. Mr. Chas. Huber, '92, has been elected, by the Athletic Association, manager of field and track athletics. We have always possessed men who showed ability in this line, but it was always confined to a few individual efforts. An effort will now be made to put an athletic team in the field which will compare favorably with the teams of other colleges. TOW/N A/St> SEMI/MTVRy. FLAVIUS HILTON, Editor. TOWN. At the Borough election held February 21st, Major Benner, Democrat, was again elected Burgess over Captain Gilbert, Repub-lican. George Walter, '82, Democrat, was also elected Justice of the Peace. Of the Town Council the Republicans elected three, a gain of two, and the control of the body. General Daniel Sickles estimates to the New York Legislature that $57,000 will be needed to properly dedicate their magnificent monument in the cemetery. Dr. McKnight has sold the William Spang-ler property on Carlisle Street to J. L. Butt, Esq., for $2,925. Mr. J. Ed. McCammon purchased his late mother's residence on Carlisle Street. The entire contents of the house will be sold March nth. Colonel Maish, ex-Congressman from this district, will be marshal of Pennsylvania's : civic parade, March 4th. In '87 a meteorite was discovered in Mount Joy Township, and sold four years later to a gentleman from Washington. Weight, 847 rounds. An analysis of the crust showed: Iron, 94.80; nickel, 4.81; cobalt, .51; copper, .005; lead, 19; sulphur, .01. The bill introduced by Senator Quay to mark the Confederate lines at Gettysburg has been the occasion of many personal attacks upon Colonel Bachelder. Representative Zeigler, of Adams, was called upon to defend the Colonel a few days ago in the lower House. SEMINARY. Messrs. Shantz and Pohlman attended the Inter-Seminary Alliance February 15th to 17th, at New Brunswick, N. J. Mr. Pohlman read a paper on " Consecration and Self- Sacrifice in Missions." The discussion of the subject was opened by Mr. Shantz. Some time ago a class was formed for the discussion of missionary topics. The class has found it necessaiy to catalogue and index the library books that have any bearing on the subject of missions. The books are few indeed, and for an intelligent discussion of the subject the most recent publications are needed. Any one who will feel moved to give books, or the money necessary to obtain them, can have their gifts properly cared for by Mr. George Beiswanger, Gettysburg, Pa. The following Seniors have secured charges : Mr. Kitzmyer, at Davis, W. Va.; Mr. Good, at Lyons, Berks County; Mr. Bettle, at Mt. Zion, Allegheny. Four or five of the Seniors have volunteered for Home Mission work in the West. Rev. W. H. Fishburn, of Harrisburg, has resigned the care of the Bethlehem Lutheran Tabernacle. Rev. W. H. Harding and Miss Martha R. Minnich were married February 14th, at Wrightsville, Pa. At home February 27th, Maytown, Pa. E. E. Shantz, of the Junior class, is instruct-ing a class in botany. A class has been formed for the study of the Life of Christ. They are using the Blakesley Graded Lessons. A steady interest is main-tained. j H THE COLLEGE MERCURY. Horace E. Zimmerman, '92, visited the boys February 6th. The election of officers of the Missionary j Society resulted as follows : President, Gruber; t Vice-President, Bellheimer; Treasurer, Ball; Recording Secretary, Albert; Corresponding Secretary, Dunlap; Curator of Athenaeum, Franz. The question among the Seniors now is, ■ "Are you going to Nebraska?" How few are j the " Here am I, send me." LITE-RAHy SOCIETIES. NIELS L. J. GRON, Editor. MANY who have noticed the wonderful developments of the educational facili-ties at our college, which has taken place during the last few years, have asked: "But what has become of the Literary Societies ? Dear old Philo. and Phrena., are they, too, ad-vancing in their influence for good?" To such a question we can answer most emphatically, Yes. The new and magnificent buildings which now grace our college campus had scarcely been erected before the two societies vacated the halls, which they had occupied for nearly sixty years, in order to take possession of more spacious and more elegant quarters. The two large halls which they now occupy in the new recitation building are richly and artistically furnished and decorated. There is hardly a Senate Chamber, in this land of wealth, more tastily ornamented. The credit for this is due not only to the efforts of the students but, to a large extent, to the liberality of the Alumni members. No sooner had the members of Phrena. and Philo. completed the decorations of their halls than they at once put into practice the signifi-cance of the names of their respective societies. They proceeded, without delay," to adorn their minds," and to show that they were, indeed, " true lovers of learning." The result has been that many students who, although bright and studious, could not stand upon the plat-form and render " The boy stood on the burn-ing deck " without manifesting great timidity and painful embarrassment, can now take the parts of Hamlet and Ccesar before any au-dience. At present excellent work is being done in both societies. Essays and orations are well prepared and show a great deal of originality. The debates which are so earnestly and vigor-ously indulged in every Friday evening have rewarded the participants with readiness and self-reliance. There are now in both societies many students who, in their extemporaneous speeches, are able to treat, logically and with force, very difficult subjects. In this day of free speech it is of the great-est importance that a man should be able to express his thoughts and ideas clearly and without hesitancy. Freedom of speech, self-possession on the platform, are of as much practical value as all the other things that can be gained from the branches included in a col-lege curriculum. The.Literary Societies alone, in a college, promote and develop these two essentials. The interest taken in the societies betokens well for the future of the students. We are exceeding pleased to note that al-though there is a rivalry between the two soci-eties for supremacy, yet the most friendly rela-tions exists between them. Fertile brains are resorted to rather than slandering and depre-cating tongues. That the bond of friendship between Phrena. and Philo. will be strengthened when they shall unite for the purpose of editing and publishing THE COLLEGE MERCURY can-not be questioned. PHRENA. NOTE. The following have been initiated as mem-bers of the society: Maynard and Russell, '95 ; Shimer, Earnest, Spayde, Brubaker, and Povall, '96. . The following have been elected: Stahl, '94; Hoover and Cook, '95 ; Fleck, Stahl, and Manges, '97. ADVERTISEMENTS. 111 Wanamaker's. PROFESSIONAL CARDS. There are two ways of selling Books. One lis keep the prices as high as possible—that's the ordinary book.store style; the other is to ;rowd the prices as low as possible—that's the IWanamaker method. The result is that the Wanamaker Book business has grown and grown until it is the largest in America. You can depend on two things if you go to /anamaker's for Books: First, That any proper Book is there, or if not that it will be Riickly got for you; second, That the price [Is as little as anybody's, and very likely littler. BOOK NEWS is a monthly guide to the new Books and an echoing of the interesting ioings of the whole book world. 5c, 50c. a ean JOHN WANAMAKER. CHARLIES S. DTjflCA^, '82, ATTORNEY AND COUNSELLOR-AT-LAW, Baltimore Street, GETTYSBURG, PA. CHflS. E. STRHiiEY, '87, ATTORNEY-AT-LAW, Baltimore Street, GETTYSBURG. PA. . STANLEY HART, PRESIDENT. GEORGE MASTERS, TREASURER. WILLIAM JOHN CALLAHAN, GENERAL f DR. CHAS. B, STOFFER, Bimtist, OFFICE, STAR AND SENTINEL BUILDING, GETTYSBURG. PA. fj liber's Dril2 Store, Baltimore Street, GETTYSBURG, PA. Prescriptions Carefully Compounded. LAWRENCE FELL, VICE-PRESIDENT. TatgSt StVlCS YD M C. 8PROUL, SECRETARY. I MANAGER. "~^^S> Hats, Shoes, AND Gents' Furnishings, R. M. ELLIOTT'S. ranklin Printing Company I A. D. BUEHLER & co., 516-J18 MINOR STREET, N. B.—Stiff Hats made to Fit the Head in two minutes. PHILADELPHIA, PA. Headquarters for Stationery and Blank Books. TELEPHONE 1044. ENTRANCE TO ELEVATOR, 518 MINOR ST. LOWEST CASH PRICES- ADVERTISEMENTS. Absolute Evenness of Touch, Richness and Brilliancy of Tone,| Extraordinary Singing Quality, Unequaled Workmanship, I Power of Standing in Tune longer than any other Piano) made, are among the characteristic qualities of DECKER BROS. PIANOS, 33 Union Square, fteui York. Used in Philo. Hall at Pennsylvania College. The Hatter, will be in Gettysburg at the College shortly with the latest fashions and best quality of Gents' Furnishing Goods. LOOK OUT FOR HIM. ■ Hi ir II ii ■■■■■! i ADVERTISEMENTS. R. H. REINNIGER, RJVIOS ECItEST, iMerchant * * DEALER IN Tailor. THE BEST WORK AT THE LOWEST PRICES. Post Office Block, CENTRAL SQUARE. PETE THORNE, •having t Hair Cutting Parlors. FIHST CLASS 7VRTISTS. CENTRAL SQUARE. Hats, Shirts, Shoes, Ties, Umbrellas, Gloves, Satchels, Hose, Pocket Books, Trunks, Telescopes, Rubbers, Etc., Etc. AMOS ECKERT. SPECIAL* TO STUDENTS. Fine Tailoring. JOSEPH JACOBS, Merchant Tailor, Shambersburg Street, (Helow Eagle Howl) GETTYSBURG, PA. 'LEMMING & TROXEL, Billiard 7»rNt> 'ool "Rooms. BALTIMORE STREET. Red Front Cigar Store R. H. RUPP, Proprietor. fio. 8 Baltimore St., Gettysburg. The.place for a fine Cigar or a good chew. Solid Havana filler, 5 for 25c. An elegant article. A FINE ASSORTMENT OF PIPES AND SMOKING MIXTURES. VI ADVKRTISEMENTS. ESTABLISHED 1876. Mary had a Little Lamb, PE/N-ROSE MyEKS, VV/rtTCHn/IKER ™ (Stamp jour Memory.; JEWELEK. liafge Stoek of LUatehes,Cloeks, Je«ielpy, etc., on Hand. GETTYSBURG SOUVENIR SPOONS, COLLEGE SOUVENIR 10 BALTIMORE STREET, GETTYSBURG, PA. Students' Headquarters IS AT J. R. STINE S. SON'S CLOTHING STORE The Cheapest Clothing and Gents' Furnishings in Gettysburg. It's wool was all the go— We make it up in BUSINESS SUITS for $1 5.00 you know. These Custom-Made Suits are popular throughout Africa— because they represent the very 0-Internee of Kobby Drccc, and are essential to every business man who cares one lota for economy and APPEAR-ANCE. Send- us ti cents in stamps, stating kind of gar metit or suit desired, and we will forward you SAMPLES of Cheviots, Cassimeres, etc., Self-measurement rules ana fashion plate. YOU DO THIS and we do the rest. Haiti more cheapest market. KEELER the largest custon. producer. Full Dais Suits, - $25.00 Up. Trousers, - - - - $4.00 lie. Frock Butts, - - $18.00 Up Overcoats, - - - $18.00 Up. JOnN M. KEELER, 5 N. Calvert St. Baltimore, Hd, "buffer no longer the extortions uf loc'-l tniiors Correspondence Solicited With Responsible Parties Desiring to Act as Agents. DfflTLLTIELD LlVERT Rear of Washington House, Opposite W. M. R. R. Depot. GETTYSBURG, PA. MERCHANT TAILORING All Kinds of Teams. Good Riding Horses A SPECIALTY. COMK AND SEE US. J. R. STINE & SON, THE LEADING CLOTHIERS, MAIN STREET, GETTYSBURG, PA. The Battlefield a Specialty, With First-Class Guides.! "Wm DAVID McCLEARY, Propl

BACKGROUND:Achieving universal health coverage (UHC) involves all people receiving the health services they need, of high quality, without experiencing financial hardship. Making progress towards UHC is a policy priority for both countries and global institutions, as highlighted by the agenda of the UN Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) and WHO's Thirteenth General Programme of Work (GPW13). Measuring effective coverage at the health-system level is important for understanding whether health services are aligned with countries' health profiles and are of sufficient quality to produce health gains for populations of all ages. METHODS:Based on the Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries, and Risk Factors Study (GBD) 2019, we assessed UHC effective coverage for 204 countries and territories from 1990 to 2019. Drawing from a measurement framework developed through WHO's GPW13 consultation, we mapped 23 effective coverage indicators to a matrix representing health service types (eg, promotion, prevention, and treatment) and five population-age groups spanning from reproductive and newborn to older adults (≥65 years). Effective coverage indicators were based on intervention coverage or outcome-based measures such as mortality-to-incidence ratios to approximate access to quality care; outcome-based measures were transformed to values on a scale of 0-100 based on the 2·5th and 97·5th percentile of location-year values. We constructed the UHC effective coverage index by weighting each effective coverage indicator relative to its associated potential health gains, as measured by disability-adjusted life-years for each location-year and population-age group. For three tests of validity (content, known-groups, and convergent), UHC effective coverage index performance was generally better than that of other UHC service coverage indices from WHO (ie, the current metric for SDG indicator 3.8.1 on UHC service coverage), the World Bank, and GBD 2017. We quantified frontiers of UHC effective coverage performance on the basis of pooled health spending per capita, representing UHC effective coverage index levels achieved in 2019 relative to country-level government health spending, prepaid private expenditures, and development assistance for health. To assess current trajectories towards the GPW13 UHC billion target-1 billion more people benefiting from UHC by 2023-we estimated additional population equivalents with UHC effective coverage from 2018 to 2023. FINDINGS:Globally, performance on the UHC effective coverage index improved from 45·8 (95% uncertainty interval 44·2-47·5) in 1990 to 60·3 (58·7-61·9) in 2019, yet country-level UHC effective coverage in 2019 still spanned from 95 or higher in Japan and Iceland to lower than 25 in Somalia and the Central African Republic. Since 2010, sub-Saharan Africa showed accelerated gains on the UHC effective coverage index (at an average increase of 2·6% [1·9-3·3] per year up to 2019); by contrast, most other GBD super-regions had slowed rates of progress in 2010-2019 relative to 1990-2010. Many countries showed lagging performance on effective coverage indicators for non-communicable diseases relative to those for communicable diseases and maternal and child health, despite non-communicable diseases accounting for a greater proportion of potential health gains in 2019, suggesting that many health systems are not keeping pace with the rising non-communicable disease burden and associated population health needs. In 2019, the UHC effective coverage index was associated with pooled health spending per capita (r=0·79), although countries across the development spectrum had much lower UHC effective coverage than is potentially achievable relative to their health spending. Under maximum efficiency of translating health spending into UHC effective coverage performance, countries would need to reach $1398 pooled health spending per capita (US$ adjusted for purchasing power parity) in order to achieve 80 on the UHC effective coverage index. From 2018 to 2023, an estimated 388·9 million (358·6-421·3) more population equivalents would have UHC effective coverage, falling well short of the GPW13 target of 1 billion more people benefiting from UHC during this time. Current projections point to an estimated 3·1 billion (3·0-3·2) population equivalents still lacking UHC effective coverage in 2023, with nearly a third (968·1 million [903·5-1040·3]) residing in south Asia. INTERPRETATION:The present study demonstrates the utility of measuring effective coverage and its role in supporting improved health outcomes for all people-the ultimate goal of UHC and its achievement. Global ambitions to accelerate progress on UHC service coverage are increasingly unlikely unless concerted action on non-communicable diseases occurs and countries can better translate health spending into improved performance. Focusing on effective coverage and accounting for the world's evolving health needs lays the groundwork for better understanding how close-or how far-all populations are in benefiting from UHC. FUNDING:Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

Publisher's version (útgefin grein) ; Background Achieving universal health coverage (UHC) involves all people receiving the health services they need, of high quality, without experiencing financial hardship. Making progress towards UHC is a policy priority for both countries and global institutions, as highlighted by the agenda of the UN Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) and WHO's Thirteenth General Programme of Work (GPW13). Measuring effective coverage at the health-system level is important for understanding whether health services are aligned with countries' health profiles and are of sufficient quality to produce health gains for populations of all ages. Methods Based on the Global Burden of Diseases, Injuries, and Risk Factors Study (GBD) 2019, we assessed UHC effective coverage for 204 countries and territories from 1990 to 2019. Drawing from a measurement framework developed through WHO's GPW13 consultation, we mapped 23 effective coverage indicators to a matrix representing health service types (eg, promotion, prevention, and treatment) and five population-age groups spanning from reproductive and newborn to older adults (>= 65 years). Effective coverage indicators were based on intervention coverage or outcome-based measures such as mortality-to-incidence ratios to approximate access to quality care; outcome-based measures were transformed to values on a scale of 0-100 based on the 2.5th and 97.5th percentile of location-year values. We constructed the UHC effective coverage index by weighting each effective coverage indicator relative to its associated potential health gains, as measured by disability-adjusted life-years for each location-year and population-age group. For three tests of validity (content, known-groups, and convergent), UHC effective coverage index performance was generally better than that of other UHC service coverage indices from WHO (ie, the current metric for SDG indicator 3.8.1 on UHC service coverage), the World Bank, and GBD 2017. We quantified frontiers of UHC effective coverage performance on the basis of pooled health spending per capita, representing UHC effective coverage index levels achieved in 2019 relative to country-level government health spending, prepaid private expenditures, and development assistance for health. To assess current trajectories towards the GPW13 UHC billion target-1 billion more people benefiting from UHC by 2023-we estimated additional population equivalents with UHC effective coverage from 2018 to 2023. Findings Globally, performance on the UHC effective coverage index improved from 45.8 (95% uncertainty interval 44.2-47.5) in 1990 to 60.3 (58.7-61.9) in 2019, yet country-level UHC effective coverage in 2019 still spanned from 95 or higher in Japan and Iceland to lower than 25 in Somalia and the Central African Republic. Since 2010, sub-Saharan Africa showed accelerated gains on the UHC effective coverage index (at an average increase of 2.6% [1.9-3.3] per year up to 2019); by contrast, most other GBD super-regions had slowed rates of progress in 2010-2019 relative to 1990-2010. Many countries showed lagging performance on effective coverage indicators for non-communicable diseases relative to those for communicable diseases and maternal and child health, despite non-communicable diseases accounting for a greater proportion of potential health gains in 2019, suggesting that many health systems are not keeping pace with the rising non-communicable disease burden and associated population health needs. In 2019, the UHC effective coverage index was associated with pooled health spending per capita (r=0.79), although countries across the development spectrum had much lower UHC effective coverage than is potentially achievable relative to their health spending. Under maximum efficiency of translating health spending into UHC effective coverage performance, countries would need to reach $1398 pooled health spending per capita (US$ adjusted for purchasing power parity) in order to achieve 80 on the UHC effective coverage index. From 2018 to 2023, an estimated 388.9 million (358.6-421.3) more population equivalents would have UHC effective coverage, falling well short of the GPW13 target of 1 billion more people benefiting from UHC during this time. Current projections point to an estimated 3.1 billion (3.0-3.2) population equivalents still lacking UHC effective coverage in 2023, with nearly a third (968.1 million [903.5-1040.3]) residing in south Asia. Interpretation The present study demonstrates the utility of measuring effective coverage and its role in supporting improved health outcomes for all people-the ultimate goal of UHC and its achievement. Global ambitions to accelerate progress on UHC service coverage are increasingly unlikely unless concerted action on non-communicable diseases occurs and countries can better translate health spending into improved performance. Focusing on effective coverage and accounting for the world's evolving health needs lays the groundwork for better understanding how close-or how far-all populations are in benefiting from UHC. ; Lucas Guimaraes Abreu acknowledges support from Coordenacao de Aperfeicoamento de Pessoal de Nivel Superior -Brasil (Capes) -Finance Code 001, Conselho Nacional de Desenvolvimento Cientifico e Tecnologico (CNPq) and Fundacao de Amparo a Pesquisa do Estado de Minas Gerais (FAPEMIG). Olatunji O Adetokunboh acknowledges South African Department of Science & Innovation, and National Research Foundation. Anurag Agrawal acknowledges support from the Wellcome Trust DBT India Alliance Senior Fellowship IA/CPHS/14/1/501489. Rufus Olusola Akinyemi acknowledges Grant U01HG010273 from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) as part of the H3Africa Consortium. Rufus Olusola Akinyemi is further supported by the FLAIR fellowship funded by the UK Royal Society and the African Academy of Sciences. Syed Mohamed Aljunid acknowledges the Department of Health Policy and Management, Faculty of Public Health, Kuwait University and International Centre for Casemix and Clinical Coding, Faculty of Medicine, National University of Malaysia for the approval and support to participate in this research project. Marcel Ausloos, Claudiu Herteliu, and Adrian Pana acknowledge partial support by a grant of the Romanian National Authority for Scientific Research and Innovation, CNDSUEFISCDI, project number PN-III-P4-ID-PCCF-2016-0084. Till Winfried Barnighausen acknowledges support from the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation through the Alexander von Humboldt Professor award, funded by the German Federal Ministry of Education and Research. Juan J Carrero was supported by the Swedish Research Council (2019-01059). Felix Carvalho acknowledges UID/MULTI/04378/2019 and UID/QUI/50006/2019 support with funding from FCT/MCTES through national funds. Vera Marisa Costa acknowledges support from grant (SFRH/BHD/110001/2015), received by Portuguese national funds through Fundacao para a Ciencia e a Tecnologia (FCT), IP, under the Norma TransitA3ria DL57/2016/CP1334/CT0006. Jan-Walter De Neve acknowledges support from the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation. Kebede Deribe acknowledges support by Wellcome Trust grant number 201900/Z/16/Z as part of his International Intermediate Fellowship. Claudiu Herteliu acknowledges partial support by a grant co-funded by European Fund for Regional Development through Operational Program for Competitiveness, Project ID P_40_382. Praveen Hoogar acknowledges the Centre for Bio Cultural Studies (CBiCS), Manipal Academy of Higher Education(MAHE), Manipal and Centre for Holistic Development and Research (CHDR), Kalghatgi. Bing-Fang Hwang acknowledges support from China Medical University (CMU108-MF-95), Taichung, Taiwan. Mihajlo Jakovljevic acknowledges the Serbian part of this GBD contribution was co-funded through the Grant OI175014 of the Ministry of Education Science and Technological Development of the Republic of Serbia. Aruna M Kamath acknowledges funding from the National Institutes of Health T32 grant (T32GM086270). Srinivasa Vittal Katikireddi acknowledges funding from the Medical Research Council (MC_UU_12017/13 & MC_UU_12017/15), Scottish Government Chief Scientist Office (SPHSU13 & SPHSU15) and an NRS Senior Clinical Fellowship (SCAF/15/02). Yun Jin Kim acknowledges support from the Research Management Centre, Xiamen University Malaysia (XMUMRF/2018-C2/ITCM/0001). Kewal Krishan acknowledges support from the DST PURSE grant and UGC Center of Advanced Study (CAS II) awarded to the Department of Anthropology, Panjab University, Chandigarh, India. Manasi Kumar acknowledges support from K43 TW010716 Fogarty International Center/NIMH. Ben Lacey acknowledges support from the NIHR Oxford Biomedical Research Centre and the BHF Centre of Research Excellence, Oxford. Ivan Landires is a member of the Sistema Nacional de InvestigaciA3n (SNI), which is supported by the Secretaria Nacional de Ciencia Tecnologia e Innovacion (SENACYT), Panama. Jeffrey V Lazarus acknowledges support by a Spanish Ministry of Science, Innovation and Universities Miguel Servet grant (Instituto de Salud Carlos III/ESF, European Union [CP18/00074]). Peter T N Memiah acknowledges CODESRIA; HISTP. Subas Neupane acknowledges partial support from the Competitive State Research Financing of the Expert Responsibility area of Tampere University Hospital. Shuhei Nomura acknowledges support from the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science, and Technology of Japan (18K10082). Alberto Ortiz acknowledges support by ISCIII PI19/00815, DTS18/00032, ISCIII-RETIC REDinREN RD016/0009 Fondos FEDER, FRIAT, Comunidad de Madrid B2017/BMD-3686 CIFRA2-CM. These funding sources had no role in the writing of the manuscript or the decision to submit it for publication. George C Patton acknowledges support from a National Health & Medical Research Council Fellowship. Marina Pinheiro acknowledges support from FCT for funding through program DL 57/2016 -Norma transitA3ria. Alberto Raggi, David Sattin, and Silvia Schiavolin acknowledge support by a grant from the Italian Ministry of Health (Ricerca Corrente, Fondazione Istituto Neurologico C Besta, Linea 4 -Outcome Research: dagli Indicatori alle Raccomandazioni Cliniche). Daniel Cury Ribeiro acknowledges support from the Sir Charles Hercus Health Research Fellowship -Health Research Council of New Zealand (18/111). Perminder S Sachdev acknowledges funding from the NHMRC Australia. Abdallah M Samy acknowledges support from a fellowship from the Egyptian Fulbright Mission Program. Milena M Santric-Milicevic acknowledges support from the Ministry of Education, Science and Technological Development of the Republic of Serbia (Contract No. 175087). Rodrigo Sarmiento-Suarez acknowledges institutional support from University of Applied and Environmental Sciences in Bogota, Colombia, and Carlos III Institute of Health in Madrid, Spain. Maria Ines Schmidt acknowledges grants from the Foundation for the Support of Research of the State of Rio Grande do Sul (IATS and PrInt) and the Brazilian Ministry of Health. Sheikh Mohammed Shariful Islam acknowledges a fellowship from the National Heart Foundation of Australia and Deakin University. Aziz Sheikh acknowledges support from Health Data Research UK. Kenji Shibuya acknowledges Japan Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology. Joan B Soriano acknowledges support by Centro de Investigacion en Red de Enfermedades Respiratorias (CIBERES), Instituto de Salud Carlos III (ISCIII), Madrid, Spain. Rafael Tabares-Seisdedos acknowledges partial support from grant PI17/00719 from ISCIII-FEDER. Santosh Kumar Tadakamadla acknowledges support from the National Health and Medical Research Council Early Career Fellowship, Australia. Marcello Tonelli acknowledges the David Freeze Chair in Health Services Research at the University of Calgary, AB, Canada. ; "Peer Reviewed"

Issue 59.4 of the Review for Religious, 2000. ; )ULY: AUGUST 2000 VOLUME 59 NUMBER 4 to Gbd~s ,univerial call, to holiness by ~n~aking available :to tb~mJtbe~piritual legaHes }bat flow from tbe cbarism~ of Catbolic ~onse~ated life:, Review for Religious (ISSN 0034-639X) is published bimonthly at Saint Louis University by the Jesuits of the Missouri Province. Editorial Office: 3601 Lindell Boulevard ¯ St. Louis, Missouri 63108-3393. Telephone: 314-977-7363 ¯ Fax: 314-977-7362 E-Mail: foppema@slu.edu Manuscripts, books for review, and correspondence with the editor: Review for Religious ¯ 3601 Lindell Boulevard ¯ St. Louis, MO 63108-3393. Correspondence about the Canonical Counsel department: Elizabeth McDonough OP P.O. Box 29260; ~VVashington, D.C. 20017 POSTMASTER Send address changes to Review for Religious ¯ P.O. Box 6070 ¯ Duluth, MN 55806. Periodical postage paid at St. Louis, Missouri, and additional mailing offices. See inside back cover for information on subscription rates. ©2000 Re'biew for Religious Permission is herewith granted to copy any material (article~, poems, reviews) contained in this issue of Review for Religious for personal or internal use, or for the personal or internal use of specific library clients within the limits outlined in Sections 107 and/or 108 of the United States Copyright Law. All copies made under this permission must bear notice of the source, date, and copyright owner on the first page. This permission is NOT extended to copying for commercial distribu-tion, advertising, institutional promotion, or for the creation of new collective works or anthologies. Such permission will only be considered on written application to the Editor, Review for Religious. LIVING OUR CATHOLIC LEGACIES Editor Associate Editors Canonical Counsel Editor Editorial Staff Advisory Board David L. Fleming sJ Clare Boehmer ASC Philip C. Fischer sJ Elizabeth McDonough OP Mary Ann Foppe Tracy Gramm James and Joan Felling Adrian Gaudin SC Kathryn Richards FSP Joel Rippinger OSB Bishop Carlos A. Sevilla SJ ¯ Patricia Wittberg SC JULY AUGUST 2000 VOLUME 59 NUMBER 4 contents 342 women religious Another Window on the Crisis in Women's Communities Mary Anne Foley CND presents the renewal of women's communities as a work in progress which faces the challenge to move beyond .present viewpoints in order to see a fuller truth. 358 A Path of Humility and Truth: Historical Reminiscence Bernadine Pieper CHM shares her experience of being in leadership at the time of Vatican II changes. 368 finding God Einding God's WiII--A Maneuver W. Henry Kenney Sj describes a process for finding God's will by popping loaded questions to God in prayer and noticing the pattern of desolations or consolations. 379 Consulting Your Inner Wisdom Hilary Ottensmeyer OSB guides us to the central core of ourselves where we hear the echoes of the voice of Jesus and of all the good people who have been examples of faith and good conduct for us. Review for Religious religious vocations Tell Them, Tell the New Members. Eileen P. O'Hea CSJ proposes the need to share with younger members of congregations hints about what is most central to religious life: the mystery of divine intimacy. 396 Sister Moms: Something Old, Something New Louise Cababe OP reports on the contemporary phenomenon of women, having been married and having raised a family, bringing a new and beautiful experience to religious congregations. 399 Vocational Confidence Donald Macdonald SMM sketches out an environment of vocational confidence whei'e vocations are invited, expected, challenged, and supported. 410 prayer perspectives Praying through Sleep A. Paul Dominic SJ explores various relationships between our sleeping and our praying. 420 Toward a Spirituality of Weariness Michael D. Moga SJ considers some of the paths that lead to spiritual treasures hidden in the areas of our exhaustion and weariness. departments 340 Prisms 430 Canonical Counsel: Exceptions to Duration of the Canonical Novitiate 435 Book Reviews July-August 2000 prisms Te jubilee year we are cele-brating provides us a challenge to our observance of the Sabbath. Sabbath has always been identified with the seventh day--the day of the Lord's rest after the six days' work of creation as depicted in chapter one of.the Book of Genesis. The Christian tradition reidentified the Lord's day with the resurrection victory of Jesus, bringing to fullness the work of redemption. The idea of refraining from work has often received greater attention even though the church has always identified "making holy" the Lord's day--Sunday--by the twofold obligation of celebrating the Eucharist and doing no servile work. Of course, there h~s been a lot of moral casuistry applied to the meaning of servile work, so much, perhaps, that the focus on God slipped because of the overwhelming emphasis on human activity--what was right, what was wrong, how long or how drudging could the work be, and so On. Pe.rhaps this year of jubilee can be a call to us to mov~ beyond the casuistry and to recapture the spirit of the Sabbath. Sabbath means, above all, a chosen awareness of spending time with God. If we are to spend time with God, then we have to take time for ourselves--not just time filled up with more "doing," even .with passive sporting events or active participations in games, but time which we describe so well today in terms of just "being." Sabbath is meant to be a deeply humane time because then God can become more active in us. Sabbath points to the movement of the oft-quoted expression of St. Irenaeus: "God's glory is the human being come fully alive, and seeing God is what human life is." Review for Religqous Eucharist belongs to the Christian Sunday observance because we celebrate God's glory shining out in the victorious risen Jesus, the firstborn of the new creation. But what else for us belongs to our Sabbath observance? What enhances our relationship with God? In other words, how do we devote time to making ourselves more humane--loving, compassionate, wise, generous, available, shar-ing- so that God's glory does shine out now through us? When we truly observe the Sabbath, we are more and more like the sacra-ments of God that our Christian vocation calls us to be. Another viewpoint. In the northern hemisphere, vacation time is upon us. Vacation, being personal rest time, shares in the sabbath notion. We sometimes refer to spiritual retreats as "vacations with God." Retreats, of course, take their focus from considering our relation with God. But would we be acting more Christian if we viewed ordinary vacation time through a prism similar to our Sunday observance? Vacation time does not need to be spent "reli-giously," performing devotional prayers and acts. But would it not be appropriate for us Christians to spend our recuperative and relaxing time with a more spiritual focus? Vacation means a time of "emptying out" (of mental cobwebs and secular preoccupations) and a "leaving space" (for attention to an ever present and loving God) in the ordinariness of our life. "Keep holy the sabbath day," then, should draw our attention not to what is to be avoided, but to what enhances our relationship with God, with ourselves, with our neighbor, and with our world. Those relationships are meant to be observed together, as a whole, when we speak of "keeping holy." Keeping holy deals with all our relationships viewed in the light of God and Jesus Christ. 'When we keep holy, we move with the Spirit. We let ourselves be moved by the Spirit--with all those with whom we converse, in all things we do. Jubilee, sabbath, and our secular vacation all find their mean-ing in the one reality of celebrating God in our life. This millen-nium year is the opportunity to remember thht jubilees, sabbaths, and vacations come to us not by some kind of law or right, but by gift--the gift of God. These time periods remind us to take stock and enjoy the God-with-us now so that we take from these "moments" the realized promise and consolation of our lifetime with God forever. ¯David L. Fleming SJ 37uly-August 2000 women MARY ANNE FOLEY Another Window on the Crisis in Women's Communities religious Last year I spent much of Holy Week working my way through Ann Carey's Sisters in Crisis: The Tragic Unraveling of Women's Religious Communities.l The book's reviews did not make me anxious to read it, but I felt obliged to do so. For some years most of my research has focused on the history of religious communities of women, and my concerns about initiating new members have forced me to confront questions about the future of this way of life. Moreover, having lived through the tumultuous past three decades of change in women's communities, I have wanted and needed to gain some perspective on the experience) Although not planned, the timing of my reading proved to be both appropriate and helpful. I felt pain and anger at seeing the women who were most instru-mental in leading the changes characterized as deliber-ately manipulative, bent on revenge, unfaithful, and heretical, and those who moved with the changes they advocated, as naive, foolish, or incapable of under-standing what was taking place. At another time I might have been inclined simply to dismiss Carey's work, but reading it in the shadow of the cross enabled me to lis- Mary Anne Foley CND, a member of the Congregation of Notre Dame of Montreal, is an associate professor of the-ology at the University of Scranton; Scranton, Pennsylvania 18510. Review fir Religious ten to what was being said under and through the words, and hence to become vulnerable to it. It was somewhat like the expe-rience of reading The Autobiography ofMakolm X. I knew I was not the "white devil" he came to loathe while in prison, but I began to see why he viewed me in that way and then to recognize my own complicity in his hellish situation. Carey's stated intention is simply to document the significant changes that have taken place within Catholic communities of women in the United States over the last forty years. She does so as a journalist, relying not on her own experience but on personal conversations and extensive archival research. The book's subtitle, however, reveals the perspective from which she writes. She is convinced that the changes have been an aberration, leading these groups away from genuine religious life. Carey belieyes that the sis-ters most disaffected as a result of the changes are afraid to speak for themselves, and so shehas chosen to speak for them. While always naming the "change-oriented" sisters she cites, she often identifies her sources among "traditional" sisters only by the name of their congregation or as Sister S., for example) One of these anonymous sources insists that many older religious are experi-encing "a time of martyrdom" as they risk being "cut off, threat-ened, and persecuted" if they challenge the directions their communities have taken (Crisis, 309). Whether or not this sister represents the views of many others, and even whether or not the threat she describes is real, it is important that she be heard, and Carey challenges the reader to listen. According to Sisters in Crisis, the reason for what emerged during the postconciliar years was, first of all, a program of mis-information concerning authentic Vatican Council II teaching, orchestrated prifiaarily by officers of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR), known earlier as the Conference of Major Superiors of Women (CMSW). Carey traces the rebellion back to the Sister Formation Movement in the 1950s, which exposed young sisters to the social sciences and "controversial and speculative" theology. The Sisters' Survey of 1966-1967, con-ducted by the CMSW, is presented as playing a key role in "indoc-trinating" sisters about possible new directions for change. The definitive step in the process of "co-opting" and "stealing" the renewal is said to be the "coup" by which the officers of the CMSW altered the nature of their organization by arranging for a revision of its bylaws and changing its name from CMSW to LCWR. At var- July-August 2000 Foley ¯ Another Window on the Crisis ious points in the process, in Carey's view, the Vatican issued clear mandates to return to a more controlled process of renewal, but these leaders refused to obey. Opposing Perspectives Since Lora Quifionez and Mary Daniel Turner were among the leaders of the LCWR during the 1970s and 1980s, it is not sur-prising that their interpretation of the last forty years is diamet-rically the opposite of Carey's. As a result, reading their book, The Transformation of the American Catholic Sister, in conjunction with Sisters in Crisis was both fascinating and unsettling. According to Quifionez and Turner, the changes in women's communities are not the result of a plan devised by a few politically astute activists and then foisted upon an undereducated and unsuspecting mass of sisters. Rather, the transformation of these communities reflects a maturing of American sisters at large; that is, they have grown more conscious of their identity as Americans, as women, and as moral agents? Given this difference in interpretation, it is interesting to note the substantial agreement of these two works on the importance of the Sister Formation movement and especially the LCWR in shap-ing the last forty years of religious life in the United States. Both are clear that the Sisters' Survey went beyond its original purpose of assessing the readiness of American sisters and the availability of resources for the renewal mandated by Vatican II. Both con-clude that the survey itself affected that renewal. And both main-tain that underlying the changes was a new belief among sisters in the validity of their experience. As Carey describes it, "some women religious determined that their own 'lived experience' was more valid for defining religious life than were any of the direc-fives coming from the church" (Crisis, 75). Quifionez and Turner not only agree; they chart the emergence of that beliefi "Sisters began to notice that even long-held and never-to-be-challenged philosophical and theological premises lent themselves to the pur-poseful sounding of experience, personal and social. Experience possessed its own authority" (Transformation, 38). More significant still is the fact that neither work acknowl-edges the possibility that those whose perspective on renewal is different could contribute something toward a more profound renewal. This is more apparent in Sisters in Crisis. Although Carey Revie~v for Religious admits that at times ignorance may have played a role in the deci-sions that were made, for the most part she attributes baser motives to the main actors: "Some religious institutes purposely expanded the years between general chapters so that experiments could be stretched out. Others purposely incorporated items into their con-stitutions that they knew would never be approved by Rome so they could continue experimenting endlessly" (Crisis, 38-39). Quifionez and Turner are far more nuanced in their expression, and they do not impute motivation to such groups as the Consortium Perfectae Caritatis, which consisted largely of community leaders who had renounced membership in the LCWR. However, the absence of any critique of actions taken by the LCWR makes the reader suspect that their account may not be as objective as it first appears. This becomes particularly evi-dent in the concluding chapter of Tran~Corrnation, where Quifionez and Turner list questions to be resolved if religious communities of women are to have a future in the United States. They accurately iden-tify one of the key questions: Is it helpful or even honest to retain canonical status? But they proceed to a further series of questions, all of which imply that the only possible answer to the question of canonical status is no. Moreover, in noting that the hierarchy and the sisters must face the questions honestly, they assert that such a process "will exact a different price from each of them. For the hierarchy it will mean giving up dominative ways of governing; for sisters it will entail laying claim to rightful uses of power. For both, it will involve owning that they are peers, no matter how distinct their role in the church" (Transformation, 167). Tran~orrnation offers ample evidence of "dominative ways of governing" by members of the hierarchy, and even Carey admits that the church officials have been "obstinate" at times. These few words seem to imply that only the hierarchy has misused power and that sisters' only sin has been the failure to use it. This would surely be an oversimplification, of a sort that would tend to polarize further those who disagree about the direction the changes have taken. Underlying the changes was a new belief among sisters in the validity of their experience. July-Auffust 2000 S#ters in Crisis was published five years after Transformation and appears to be intended in part as a response to that work, a sort of revisionist history. While Quifionez and Turner did not have the opportunity to respond to Carey's assertions directly, the current leadership of the LCWR responded by claiming that the women in American religious, communities today are not "sisters in crisis," but rather "sisters in service."s There is truth in this assertion. Many of those castigated by Carey really are performing service of inestimable value, and for them to focus more on that service than on institutional survival does not call for the word "tragic" in Carey's subtitle. But that is not to say that I think there is no ~ri-sis. 6 It has been common in recent years to refer to the two Chinese characters that together convey the meaning of crisis, one referring to danger and the other to opportunity. Carey is right: there is a real danger that women's religious communities as we have known them in the United States will become extinct. But the LCWR leadership is also right in noting that the service which women's communities offer indicates a time of great poten-tial. Here I offer some reflections on how the opportunity pre-sent in this moment of crisis may be recognized and embraced. A Window of Opportunity The story is told of two men seated in the same room in a library. One was very hot and opened the room's only window. The other, afraid that his papers would blow all over, immediately closed, it, only to have it reopened by the first. The reaction of the other can be guessed. When the librarian saw the brewing conflict, she went into the next room and opened the window there, thus providing cool air without creating a disruptive, breeze.7 It seems to me that those who find themselves in deadlock on how women's communities have come to be where they are need to discover another window through which to view the last three decades. For this they may well be helped by James Fowle~:'s the-ory of faith development. For Fowler faith is a verb; it is how a per-son makes meaning of the world. We tend to "faith" in a particular way until that way of making meaning no longer works for us and compels us to make meaning differently; this he describes as a new "stage" of faith.8 During adolescence, for example, many peo-ple begin to base their faith on that of the significant people in their lives. They may have reflected deeply on what they believe Review for Religious and can probably describe the content of their faith, but it is largely tacit. Later the demands of adult life, particularly in a culture no longer homogeneous, often move people toward Individuative- Reflexive faith. Those in this stage can articulate the reasons for their faith. In addition, the source of authority for their faith has moved inward, so that they believe because they have chosen to believe. Even if the content.of their faith remains the same, it has become their own.9 Fowler notes that, as a result of midlife stocktaking, some adults experience yet another transition, to what he calls Conjunctive faith, in which they can peacefully hold their own belief while truly listening to another whose belief is different. No longer do they perceive difference as an attack on their hard-won faith that must be defended at all costs. Rather, the other person's faith becomes an invitation to deepen and refine their own belief. Such faith is not possible until one has fully moved to the Individuative-Reflexive stage by both internalizing authority and making one's belief explicit. (Otherwise what appears a willingness to allow one's own faith to be influenced by others may simply be a form of the tacit faith that allows others to define what. one believes.) The fruit of Conjunctive faith is real dialogue, which begins with the belief that each one comes to the table with a perspective on the truth and includes the humble acknowledgment ~hat each has in some way failed to serve that truth. Fowler's theory has been applied to the "faithing" process of groups as well as individuals. Of course, not all members of the group are at the same stage at any given time. But the theory can be helpful in describing a group's changing "corporate culture." In the years before the Second Vatican Council, for example, when sisters lived in an environment that exemplified one and the same faith perspective, many were able to make meaning of their world through the tacit faith that the environment supported. As Quifionez and Turner describe that time, "canonical definitions, legislated by church authorities, gave 'religious life' its existence, its legitimacy, and its value" (Transformation, 36). In asking women's communities to return to their sources and to read the signs of The other person's faith becomes an invitation to deepen and refine their own belief 3%dy-dugust 2000 Foley * Another I4andow on the Crisis the times, the council caused them to become more analytical. At the same time, both the changes sisters began to make and the movements in the church and in society around them weakened many of the structures which had reinforced their commitment, so that those who remained were forced to acquire personal reasons for doing so. The movement between external and internalized authority is well illustrated by the responses which the members of LCWR gave to actual and proposed canons of church law in 1968 and 1977. Quifionez and Turner note that these responses differed, not in content, but in the way they were justified: "While in the 1960s sisters invoked Vatican Council II to legitimate their view-points, in 1977 they relied on the authority of their own experience to ground their critique" (Transformation, 56). This suggests that Carey is mistaken in assuming that most changes were the result of a few very influential leaders imposing on the rest their way of seeing the world. That may have been true for some, but, by illus-trating the extent to which "change-oriented" sisters began to appeal to. personal experience, Carey herself provides evidence that in general these women had come to a personally appropri-ated faith?° In my view, profound as this kind of faith may be, it is limited by the tendency to exalt one's internal authority to the extent of being unable to allow one's belief system to be affected by oth-ers. This can make it almost impossible to move together as a group. At a chapter several years ago, it was proposed that the community as a group fast and abstain on Fridays as a sign of their hunger for peace. One person objected vehemently, not to the action in itself, but to committing the whole group to any practice. Her memory of practices imposed in the past seemed to make it impossible for her to accept such a limitation on individual free-dom, even when that limitation was chosen. I believe that the future of religious communities depends on their moving beyond such a stance toward the deeper openness that constitutes what Fowler calls Conjunctive faith. Over the years, many "change-oriented" sisters have looked at and tried on elements of what Carey calls "the latest theological, sociological, psychological--and eventually New Age--fads" (Crisis, 138). She condemns both this and what she considers an excessive tolerance for the views of everyone. It seems to me, how-ever, that for many sisters the opportunity presented by the pre- Review for Religious sent moment is the call to a still greater openness, by which they can allow themselves to truly listen, on the one hand, to new alter-natives and, on the other, to those who question their new ways of understanding and living. Carey does not provide evidence to sup-port her accusation that "change-oriented" communities have deliberately silenced their more traditional members, and yet I believe that in some cases the voices of these sisters have not been heard, or their views have been dismissed as reactionary, irrational, foolish. Any honest dialogue would have to begin with everyone admitting some failure to listen. Openness to dialogue is possible, though certainly most dif-ficult, when the other is not similarly open. Carey speaks of "dia-logue" as if it is often used like a ploy in a game,11 and her position throughout Sisters in Crisis suggests an unwillingness to concede that "change-oriented" sisters could possess a piece of the truth. That, however, does not free the latter from the need to continue discerning where the critique offered by more traditional sisters has its own truth that deserves to be faithfully responded to. Opening a different window on the future requires humble dialogue around many of the issues raised by Carey, among which are the mission and vowed life of sisters, their place in the church, and the impli-cations of "refounding" religious communities. Mission Even though she acknowledges that justice has played an important role in sisters' traditional apostolates, Carey maintains that "change-oriented" sisters have recently replaced their true, "spiritual" mission with social justice as "a new primary mission" (Crisis, 112). For example, she criticizes the choice of nonviolence as the theme of the 1996 LCWR conference, claiming that this reveals "the conference's continuing priority bf placing sociopo-litical issues ahead of spiritual issues" (Crisis, 242). In this.discus-sion she comes close to what Quifionez and Turner describe as the worldview of sisters before 1960, for whom the sacred and the secular occupy two different spheres. The coauthors contend that since then many sisters have moved beyond such a view and "increasingly frame the meaning of their life in terms of the church's evangelizing mission" (Transformation, 59). The bishops at the 1971 synod called "action on behalf of justice., a consti-tutive dimension of the preaching of the gospel."12 In light of that July-./tugust 2000 Foley ¯ ~lnotber Windo~ on the ~ teaching, Carey's apparently outdated perspective seems to have nothing to offer the women about whom Quifionez and Turner write. Indeed, seeing spirituality as somehow pitted against jus-tice is not helpful. This aspect of Carey's position, however, masks an important criticism that "change-oriented" sisters would do well to recognize. Quifionez and Turner state that dedication to mission has comd to encompass the meaning of many sisters' lives. They cite a "grow-ing tendency . to define religious identity as witness against cultural values and attitudes" and assert further that "work and identity are inseparably related" (Transformation, 79 and. 39). In my view, this comes perilously close to insisting not only that my work is my prayer, but that it is my life. This is indeed what our culture often proposes; I consider.it an area where sisters are called to take a countercultural stance. Surely there is a middle path between a spirituality that would have no relation to justice and a life that would collapse itself into work on behalf of justice or any other important value. Carey's articulation of the mission of sisters in apostolic com-munities is not satisfactory, but neither is that of Quifionez and Turner. Hence the need for dialogue around what Carey would call the "spiritual" .mission of sisters. Such dialogue could very well occur in the context of the vowed life. Vows Carey claims that many elderly sisters who disapprove of the directions in which their congregations have moved "take very seriously the vows they made, and they are not only disturbed that religious life has been fundamentally restructured in their own communities, but even more alarmed that in the restructured model it is difficult, if not impossible, for them to live out the vows they made to God" (Crisis, 306). Nowhere does Sisters in Crisis explain how the restructuring of communities could make it "impossible for them to live out the vows." Perhaps these sisters believe that, for them to fulfill the demands of obedience and poverty, there must be specific persons designated as superiors who give commands and permissions. If so, a system in which decisions about ministry and the use of goods are made commu-nally may never provide what they are demanding. As has already been noted, Quifionez and Turner maintain Review for Religious that the defining element of many sisters' lives is no longer the vows, but rather witness. This suggests that for these women the concerns of the sisters whose perspective Carey shares are irrel-evant. And yet Quifionez and Turner also say, "For a large num-ber of the women, their shared life has to be linked to ultimacy, to the values of the gospel, to the deepest insights of religious tra-ditions" (Transformation, 166). Just how their lives can be "linked to ultimacy" is an ongoing question that must be addressed if there is to be a future for women's communities. It seems to me that addressing it will be difficult as long as the expression is as vague as that given here. I suspect that the word God is omitted because of the desire to be inclusive. To be sure, speaking of God is dangerous, and moreover help on the journey toward God can come from various traditions, including those that do not name God. But one must begin a journey from some point. Sandra Schneiders has pointed out the danger when communities that consider themselves religious have highly indi-vidualized, and eclectic spiritualities unconnected to the Christian tradition in which the communities are rooted. For such groups, she suggests, "the quiet sidelining of Christian .identity believed and practiced in the church is not compatible with their ongoing life and self-renewal as a religious congregation." 13 Over the centuries Christian women and men have sought to link their lives to ultimate, reality, which they have named God, by means of the vows. They have done this not only and, in my view, not primarily as a witness to others, but because God has somehow reached into their lives, and so, in being true to them-selves, they structure their lives around their relationship to God.14 Certainly there is need to reconceive and even reformu-late what is meant by the vows,15 but this must be done with recognition of their connection to the divine and hence of their significance beyond that of any actions .they imply. Vows of this kind must indeed be taken seriously. Surely there is a middle path between a spirituality that would have no relation to justice and a life that would collapse itself into work on behalf of justice. July-duffust 2000 Foley * Another Window on the Crisis Church Quifionez and Turner say, "Central to their quest for mean-ing, we believe, is the identity of sisters as church women" (Transeormation, 166). But, as Eucharia Malone RSM pointed out as early as 1970, "this relationship with the.church seems to be the point on which we are divided" (see Crisis, 95). In fact, the very definition of church is often at the heart of the polarization within and between women's communities. At first glance it is difficult to imagine a rapprochement between the understandings of church espoused by Carey and by Quifionez and Turner. Sisters in Crisis assumes a church in which the initiative comes from the hierarchy. As a result, Carey implies that sisters' meetings held in 1964-1965 to discuss strategies for renewal were subversive because Perfectae caritatis had not yet been promulgated formally)6 What could she have to say to those for whom church is a discipleship of equals, each of whom is responsible for initiating change? Many traditional as well as "change-oriented" groups have claimed to be following the teachings of Vatican II in their very different approaches to renewal. But the council documents them-selves represent compromises between bishops of various per-spectives. They are often ambiguous concerning the church and hence concerning the role of women's communities within the church. The situation is not unlike what followed in the wake of the last reforming council, the Council of Trent. Like Vatican II, Trent carried its own contradictions within itself,, including both a call for widespread education and an insistence on cloister for women ready to dedicate themselves to the education of young women. The conflicts, that resulted were virtually inevitable. Indeed, the experience of the post-Tridentine church calls into question any notion of reform as neat or uniform in application. In general, Carey fails to place the events she narrates within a larger historical context. She takes the American experience of religious life in the first half of.this century as normative and con-sequendy disparages many of the changes that have occurred since then. Research into the foundations of many communities before this century has revealed considerable struggle, especially with members of the hierarchy, over the very issues of ministry and conformity to monastic lifestyle that so concern Carey?7 Her lack of attention to the history of women's communities appears to be related to her sympathy with the representatives of the Consortium Perfectae Caritatis, who wanted discussion with LCWR officials Review for Religious to focus on "absolute truths that would transcend., any age, any period of time, any period of history" (Crisis, 283). Quifionez and Turner, on the other hand, are well aware of the various forms in which what is called "religious life" has mani-fested itself over the centuries, accurately noting that it is always a "historically conditioned" phenomenon.~s They are less attentive, however, to the values sought by sizable numbers of contemporary women and their foremother~. For genuine dialogue to take place, it might be necessary to declare a moratorium on valuing things either as "absolute" or as "historically conditioned." It could go far toward healing not only some of the divisions in women's com-munities, but also some of the woundedness of the larger church. Refounding In her concluding chapter Carey addresses herself to tradi-tional sisters who find themselves in communities that have moved away from what she considers the essence of religious life. She believes that such women may be called to "refound" their com-munities, and so offers a number of recommendations for how that might take place: "This refounding must be accomplished by the sisters within those institutes themselves, for refounding of religious orders cannot be mandated or directed by hierarchy, clergy, or laity, though legitimate refounding efforts should be supported by these other groups of people. In the refounding pro-cess, some members of a religious institute may come to the real-ization that their concept of consecrated life really does not fit the church understanding of a religious institute, and so those women may wish to pursue one of the other forms of consecrated life defined by the church" (Crisis, 328). Carey does not clarify why refounding a community "cannot be mandated or directed by the hierarchy" even though that is precisely what she believes its role should have been during the postconciliar renewal. Equally surprising is the open-ended pro-cess she describes, which it cannot be assumed will conform to the standard definition of a religious institute. Of course she assumes that, if what emerges does not fit that definition, the alter-native is another already defined form. In contrast, Vita consecrata, among other documents, assumes that forms not yet defined are also emerging at the present time.19 . In these comments Carey sketches out, no doubt unwittingly, j~uly-/lugust 2000 Fole~ ¯ Another l~ndow on the Crisis what many perceive to have been going on during all these years since the council: initiatives taken by those within the commu-nity, support for those initiatives from (some) other constituencies in the church, and ~n honest confrontation of the questions that traditional understandings of religious life bring to the fore. The element that Carey believes was missing in so many attempts at renewal is "legitimacy," which she understands to be close con-fortuity to the document "Essential Elements of Religious Life," issued by the Vatican Congregation for Religious and Secular Institutes in 1983. Many "change-oriented" sisters and commu-nities consider that sense of legitimacy overly narrow, but in so doing they seem often to have acted as if all changes were equally legitimate. I believe that Carey and others have rightly criticized processes of experimentation that lacked mechanisms of evalua-tion. 2° Many are not fully satisfied with what has emerged in the. course of renewal, but are not sure how to name what is missing. Carey comments sharply on the failure of "change-oriented" communities to attract many new members. In her view, there are only two possible reasons for this, "unselfishness or pathological denial" of the imminent demise of their congregations, and she is quite sure that the latter interpretation is the accurate one. I think' these are false alternatives, though both no doubt play a role at times. A more significant factor in the decline in the number of women joining these communities seems to be a feeling of ambivalence, both among members of women's communities and in the church at large, ambivalence which results in part from massive change without evil-uation and consequently without general ownership. Carey, along with ~¢arious church officials, has declared the period of experimentation for women's communities to be over. But her proposal for refoundation suggests that a new, more pro-found kind of experimentation is just what is called for. The women who are coming to communities these days, particularly those young enough not to have lived through the years immedi-ately following the council, do not share the ambivalence of their older sisters. No doubt it is they who will lead the way in the founding and refounding still to come. Neither/Nor, Looking Anew, Nuancing In my opinion, the renewal of women's communities in the Catholic Church over the past forty years was not "co-opted" or Review for Religious "stolen" by their leaders, but neither has it been fully accom-plished. It is a work in progress, and in that work there has been considerable polarization between different approaches, and mutual recrimination as well. The challenge at this time may be to move beyond present viewpoints, to look through some other window onto those same issues and see a fuller truth. Those who wish to find such a window would do well to heed what Carey has written. Certainly Sisters in Crisis is flawed in its use of sources. Many are cited out of context, they are often listed without explanation or analysis, and generalizations are made on the basis of undisclosed and apparently meager evidence. But Carey's effort to speak in the nameof sisters whose views may have been ignored in the process of renewal provides a significant resource for those who are willing to look and listen. What has been said here about renewal within women's com-munities is true of the renewal of the whole church; in many ways it holds true as well for liberation movements within North America and across the planet. It is often asserted that communi-ties of men and women are called to take a prophetic stance. In my view, such an assertion requires careful nuancing. But, if sisters who represent different perspectives can learn to engage in gen-uine dialogue about their recent history and possible future direc-tions, I believe that could be prophetic indeed, not only for the church, but for all of humanity. Notes i Ann Carey, Sisters in Crisis: The Tragic Unraveling of Women's Religious Communities (Huntington, Indiana: Our Sunday Visitor Press, °1997). 2 The focus of my work is women's communities, and the sources for the present reflection deal specifically with women in the United States. Other groups, too, may find what I say relevant. 3 These are not my preferred terms, but since Carey uses them I will follow her lead. 4 Lora Ann Quifionez CDP and Mary Daniel Turner SNDdeN, The Tranyformation of American Catholic Sisters (Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1992). s "Book rebukes renewal; nuns rebuke book," National Catholic Reporter, 23 May 1997, p. 6. 6 Former LCWR president Doris Gottemoeller RSM agrees, but she believes that Carey has not named the crisis adequately. See "Religious Life in Crisis," Origins, 25 February 1999, pp. 634-638. ~uly-August 2000 Foley ¯ Another Window on the Crisis 7 One modern source for the story is Roger Fisher, William Ury, and Bruce Patton, Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement without Giving In, 2nd ed. (New York: Penguin Books, 1991), p. 40. Walter Wink suggests that finding a third alternative in a situation that has reached an impasse is a gospel imperative. See his Engaging the Powers: Discernment and Resistance in a World of Domination (Minneapolis: Fortress Press, 1992). s Fowler suggests that the pattern of stages he describes remains valid regardless of the content of one's faith. It is rather a factor of one's cognitive and moral development,.although the circumstances in which one finds oneself tend to propel one toward a new stage. His theory is quite pragmatic: no stage is better than another; it simply may be more adequate to the realities one has to confront. 9 Note that one of these elements can be present without the other. Persons with an analytical bent can ana!yze the content of a faith that is not personally appropriated. Similarly, persons who tend to be inde-pendent may formally reject the faith of significant others before being able to give a reason for their own belief, other than the fact that it is their own. 10 This is not to say that more traditional communities have not made the same transition. I simply do not have enough evidence to make such a judgment. II She maintains that, when their constitutions were not approved, "many institutes simply played the game of prolonged 'dialogue' with Rome, hoping to win approval for practices that already had been in effect for years" (Crisis, 314). 12 Justice in the World, §6. 13 Sandra M. Schneiders IHM, "Congregational Leadership and Spirituality in the Postmodern Era," Review for Religious 57, no. 1 (January-February 1998): 26. ~4 I am indebted to Edward Vacek SJ in "Religious Life and the Eclipse of Love for God," Review for Religious 57, no. 2 (March-April 1998): 118-137, for his description of the vows as'structuring one's life around the relationship to God. ~s Barbara Fiand SND has articulated a theology of the vows in keep-ing with an e~;olutionary, nondualistic worldview. See her Living the I~uion: Religious Vows in an Age of Change (New York: Crossroad, 1990) and Wrestling with God: Religious Life in Search of Its Soul (New York: Crossroad, 1996). 16 See Crisis, pp. 110-111. 17 HWR News and Notes, published by the Conference on History of Women Religious (ed. Karen M. Kennelly csJ; Mount St. Mary's College; 12001 Chalon Road; Los Angeles, California 90049), tracks current scholarship in this area, much of which is presented at that orga-nization's triennial conferences. Both the enormous variety of expressions and the common themes Review for Religious manifest in that variety are very evident in Jo Ann Kay McNamara, Sisters in Arms: Catholic Nuns through Two Millennia (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1996). ,9 See ~ta consecrata, Origins 25, no. 41 (4 April 1996); also in The Church and Consecrated Life (St. Louis: Review for Religious, 1996), pp. 323-436; see esp. §§12 and 62. The latter section is explicit about the pos-sibility that new forms emerging today may come to be approved offi-cially at a later time. 20 For example, Gottemoeller, "Religious Life in Crisis" (see note 6), p. 635. At the LCWR assembly in August 1999, there were a number of calls for evaluation of the processes of renewal. Musings of the Prodigal's Brother Look at him! The life of the party. Music, fatted calf, ring- all to celebrate my brother's return from a wasted life. Squandered inheritance, prostitutes, and hunger shared with swine. Look at my lathe!! Joy-filled, radiant, his long-awaited prodigal is home. Unconditional, all-forgiving love Lighting up the room with warmth and joy, my father - our father - now at peace. Look at me! Lonely, jealous, bitter. The son who did not squander - but gave my father only loyal, total service, What's this? My envy giving way? My inner blindness praying, "Lord, that I may see"? Maria Corona Crumback IHM ffuly-August 2000 BERNADINE PIEPER A Path of Humility and Truth: Historical Reminiscence T~ay, thirty-five years after Vatican Council II, many people nk that the changes in religious life arose spontaneously, somewhat like Athena springing from the forehead of Zeus. In fact, the changes took place because of intense preparation. That preparation happened in the contexts of the general culture and the individual religious communities. My community, the Congregation of the Humility of Mary, was a small congregation of approximately 430 members, and so most sisters knew one another. The sisters came from a variety of ancestral ndtionalities: Irish, German, Czech, Italian, Mexican, and others. Many of the sisters had rural backgrounds, had the experience of living with Protestants as well as Catholics, and had attended both public and Catholic schools at all levels including university. The congregation had moved from France to Pennsylvania to Missouri to Iowa and had experienced losing the motherhouse in Ottumwa, Iowa, in a 1957 fire. They were pio-neers, risk takers. Further, a remarkable group of women made up the leadership of the Congregation of the Humility of Mary from 1960 to 1966. In November 1964 the general superior, Mother Mary Nicholas, and the general council called for a congregation-wide Bernadine Pieper CHM was elected general superior of her congre-gation in 1966, shortly after Vatican Council ii. She writes from her experience of the past forty years. Her address is Humility of Mary Center; 820 West Central Park Avenue; Davenport, Iowa 52804. Review for Religious vote on a revision of the delegate selection process for the 1966 general chapter of affairs. That same month she and the council ¯ asked every convent to discuss renewal of religious life with spe-cial applications to our congregation. Background material sent for the study included Vatican II's Constitution on the Liturgy, chapters 5 and 6 of the Constitution on the Church, Pope Paul's discourse of 23 May 1964 to all religious, the original 1858 rules and regulations of the Sisters of the Humility of Mary, and Father Bernard H~iring's Christian Renewal in a Changing World. The sis-ters were also asked to study related sections of Scrip~re. The virtues listed in our original constitutions were to be studied along with the congregation's apostolate. The sisters were asked whether " we were meeting the spiritual and religious needs of the people of our time in the localities where we were working. This was a time of excitement and ferment. Discussion of these topics provided an opportunity for departure from the rather superficial conversation typical of specified recreation times. A 22 February 1965 letter from Mother Mary Nicholas states that the objective of our study was profound renewal inspired.by bib-lical, liturgical, and apostolic documents of Vatican II and by wis-dom from the congregation's experience. She said some changes would be decided by the congregation itself while others must await legislation expected in the future. "We realize that renewal of religious life will not be easy," she said. From each of four geo-graphical areas (east Iowa and Illinois, midwest Iowa, southeast Iowa, and the west), she and the general council appointed the following committees: liturgy, common life and discipline, poverty, obedience, works and apostolate, and formation and maturity. Committee members included every sister in the community. After a year of discussion, each of these committees sent a posi-tion paper, including reports and recommendations, for study by the congregation. From October 1965 to May 1966, sisters prepared proposals to present to the 1966 chapter of affairs. A total of 545 proposals on a variety of topics were prepared by the sisters, both by indi-viduals and by committees and groups. The recommendations included practically every facet of the sisters' lives and customs: elections, prayer, charity, social work, spiritual renewal, revision of rule and directory, companionship, cloister, letter writing, use of gifts, permissions, and other more mundane items such as swim-ming, ceremonies, appointments, and speeds at which to drive. ~uly-August 2000 Pieper ¯ ~t Path of Humility and Truth There were few proposals about chastity and friendship, pos-sibly due to the fact that no study group was assigned to this topic. During the previous fifty years, obedience had assumed priority for religious life. Three sisters were appointed to organize the pro-posals for presentation to th6 chapter of affairs in a logical way. After attending a workshop for religious superiors at the University of Notre Dame, the local superiors of the congregation met in the summer of 1965 to look at common life. They recom-mended a variety of changes to Mother Superior and the council. Among the changes approved were: talking at breakfast, walking outdoors after 6 p.m., eating with guests, retiring early, noncen-sorship of mail, elimination of the chapter of faults, yearly general permissions, and going without a companion to medical appoint-ments. Previously three other sisters were involved when one went to the doctor: one as her companion at the doctor's and two oth-ers to drive them there and pick them up again. In 1965, upon the recommendation of the liturgy committee, sisters began to use the breviary for morning and night prayers. A workshop on guidelines for renewal was held in spring 1966 with the cooperation of the Canon Law Society of America and the approval Of Davenport Bishop Ralph L. Hayes. The speakers were Father Paul M. Boyle CP, past president of the Canon Law Society of America; Father Kevin O'Rourke OP, coauthor of Canon Law for Religious Women; Sister Jane Marie Richardson SL, secretary of Sister Mary Luke Tobin SL, auditor at Vatican II; Sister Ignace RSM, province councilor of the Mercy Sisters' Chicago Province; and Sister Maristella (Elizabeth) Picken CHM, member of the Marycrest College religion department. Davenport sisters had also traveled to Aurora, Illinois, that spring for a speech by Sister Mary Luke Tobin. The membership for the 1966 chapter of affairs was entirely different from that of earlier chapters, which had been composed of almost as many superiors as nonsuperiors. Besides the seven ex-officio members--major .superior, council, former major superi-ors, secretary, and treasurer--seven superiors were elected from among 38, nine sisters from among 88 more than 50 years old, ten sisters from among 90 between 35 and 50 years of age, and four from among the 80 sisters under 35. All these sisters had per-petual vows. Sisters with temporary vows had only active voice. During the chapter the delegates voted to abolish all secrecy. Chapter delegates represented a wide variety of sisters. There was for Rdigious a wide spectrum of emotion--fear and impatience on the one hand, hope and excitement on the other. Everyone, however, cared for the congregation and worked hard to follow the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Relaxation of discipline and introduction of the breviary were not the only changes which took place before the 1966 chapter of affairs. The number of entrants into the congregation had already declined before 1966. The largest number of persons to enter the congregation came in 1959 and 1960:27 and 32 respec-tively. In 1965 only six women entered, and in the spring of 1966 only four had been accepted for entrance. Sisters were aware of and inter-ested in civil rights. Though no one went to Selma or other places in the South for demonstrations, they were deeply concerned and prayed particularly when Medgar Evers was killed. They also began to help with local problems. For example, some numbers went sandbagging along the Mississippi in Davenport during the 1965 flood. They tried to do this quietly; when a picture of the sisters appeared in the daily paper, not everyone in the CHM community was happy. Probably attitudinal changes were the most important. In the 1960s the culture implied that one was incomplete without a sex-ual partner. Vatican II taught that perfection was obtainable not just by sisters in community, but also by married persons. At Marycrest College, where over one-fourth of the CHM community studied during the summer, creative and critical thinking was a college goal. Sisters began to recognize that they were thinking creatively .and critically about everything exc.ept their own lives. They became aware that they had been founded as an apostolic community and were neither cloistered nor monastic, but had been trying to live as if they were. At the chapter of affairs, on 27 June 1966, I was elected the general superior. My experience as a superior was limited to sev-eral summers for the sisters who were students at Marycrest College. I had, however, taught a majority of members of the con-gregation. This was my first chapter of affairs. M6ther Mary In 1965, upon the recommendation of the liturgy committee, sisters began to use the breviary for morning and night prayers. Pieper ¯ A Path of Humility and Truth Nicholas Sheetz, who might have provided me some guidance, died in October 1966. Mother Mary Magdalen Wilmes, another potential source of information, asked to move to Phoenix. "You can make your own mistakes," she said. I retained the designation "Sister" and took the title president instead of mother superior, as have those who succeeded me. When Father Paul Boyle CP spoke at Marycrest College in April 1966, he assured the members of the committee which orga-nized the proposals that he would be happy to help at the chapter. He came to Ottumwa from Monroe, Michigan, and was invaluable in distinguishing among aspects of church law, community law, customs, and culture. He advised us tobegin with a discussion on prayer because that was the most important topic and further-more was likely to be less controversial than the others. After considerable discussion and revision at the regular June session and a short one in December 1966, about sixty motions were approved by the delegates, either unanimously or at least 10 to 1 in favor. Mass, lauds, vespers, and an annual retreat were the only requirements regarding prayer. However, the value of prayer was endorsed, and continuing past practices was recommended. In the area of poverty, the sisters were asked to be as poor as they wished and to provide community witness to poverty by sharing things. Minor finances were to be a subject for experimentation. Each sister was to be given $15 a month for clothes and personal needs, while housing, .meals, and travel were to be provided by the local house. One sister commented that her girdle alone cost $13. Investigating congregational health insurance was approved. Home visits, travel without companions, retention of baptismal names for those who so wished, eating with persons other than commu-nity members, and letters and phone calls without censorship were approved. Broadening our apostolic works was recommended, with particular emphasis on Latin America. The value of long-range planning was noted. The following commissions were described and set up in great detaili (1) the coordinating commission on apostolic works, with subcommittees in the various areas of work; (2) rule and directory revision; (3) formation and religious renewal; (4) finance and development; and (5) habit revision. The sisters were asked to participate in annual meetings of the whole con-gregation. No time limit for experimenting was set because Pe, rfectae caritatis allowed twelve years. Review for Religious In the letter I wrote to the congregation accompanying the record of the June 1966 chapter, I said: "Many of you have prob-ably read Michael Novak's 'The New Nun' in the July Post, in which he says, 'Press reports emphasize the shortened skirts, the briefer veils, the appearance of nuns on public beaches, but these are misleading superficial aspects of a deep-running revolution. In ever increasing numbers the sisters are creating new rules to define what tasks they may or may not tackle, what styles of life they may or may not adopt.'" Change in clothes was symbolic and probably the change most criticized by the sisters' publics. The original intent was to design and adopt a simple costume with a modified veil. The process, however, led to diversity. Sisters sent requests to the coordinating commission on habit revision, with the final decision to be made by the general superior and council. At first the sisters were expected to wear a veil and white, gray, black, brown, or blue clothing. Many sisters quickly adapted to the change, Next came . requests and permission to wear red and green and finally flowered blouses. Just before the 1967 summer school, the gen-eral council decided to allow sisters to go without veils, having noticed that sisters in some communities who were still asked to wear the traditional habit were surreptitiously wearing street clothes when they were ¯ away from the convent. We felt that honesty was the better policy. At first clothes were usually made out of habits and cloaks and often were ill fitting and not very well designed. Generally sisters wore blouses, skirts, and suits. Some sisters reverted to the hairstyles of their teen years; some bought wigs. Fairly soon, though, the sisters emerged as attractive women rather than neuter icons, and sometimes this incited the envy of other women. For example, one sister found a suitable coat with a small fur collar in the poor box for the parish. She was criti-cized by some parishioners as being too extravagant in clothes. The change to contemporary clothes, the sisters thought, necessitated some means for identification. For a while each sis-ter had a name tag; then we adopted a design for a medal. It is still being used. Change in clothes was symbolic and probably the change most criticized by the sisters' publics. July-August 2000 Pieper ¯ A Path of Humility and Truth This was a time of energetic hope and gloomy predictions as well. One priest "expert" predicted that within five years the con-gregation would be extinct. Before 1966 the vow of poverty implied permission for the use of material things. After the 1966 chapter, the meaning of being po.or as one wished and sharing material things was open to interpretation. General congregational'needs included care of retired sisters, administration, and the retirement of a debt on the motherhouse. Up to this time, each house had sent as much as possible to the motherhouse. In fact, sometimes superiors vied with one other to see how much could be sent, even at the expense of local needs. As sisters began to live outside established con-vents, the question arose about ensuring a balance of individual and congregational needs. Since CHM local houses had sent to the congregational fund the amount each determined, it seemed logical to continue this process. Hence, each sister was asked to deduct from her income what was needed for her individual or house costs and send the rest to the motherhouse. Little by little most of the sisters began to contribute as much as they could to the congregation's fund. Diocesan stipends were entirely too low. In the Des Moines Diocese the stipend set for each sister was $50-$100 monthly. In the city of Des Moines, all except one parish paid $50 per month per sister. I had to go to bishops and pastors to ask for an increase in the stipend. Frequently I was told that, if the sisters went back to their habits, they could get along on $50 a month! I prepared and distributed a budget so that the sisters could be informed about real congregational needs. Funds for retreats and education were budgeted. A study was made of average expenses for an indi-vidual. Many sisters responded favorably when they were informed about the needs, both for the congregation itself and for works to assist the poor. To free active sisters from increasing costs for sisters already in retirement, we enrolled in the social security program in 1972 when it became available for sisters. Using unclaimed interest on patrimony, we set up the CHM retirement trust in 1976. Until the summer of 1966, health expenses were cared for gratis by several related hospitals. One of these began charging the sisters for services. Then we initiated a health-insurance plan. Each sister in the congregation was asked to have an annual phys-ical examination. Revie~ for Religio~ The commission on rule revision met almost immediately after the 1966 chapter. Unable to decide what to call the first product of their efforts, it settled on "Spirit and Goals" until a better name could be found. After considerable discussion a state-ment of about a page and a half was sent to all the sisters for study and recommendation. After several revisions, a statement of spirit and goals was approved by a vote of the sisters in August 1968. The statement began, "We Sisters of the Humility of Mary are a group of women in the Catholic Church who have banded together to dedicate ourselves through a special common effort to the pur-suit of life's essential meaning and to a radical response to the Christian gospel of universal love." The Spirit and Goals document was intended as a basic state-ment explaining our spirit and the meaning of religious life for the Sisters of the Humility of Mary. The remainder of the rule was intended to be directives approved by succeeding chapters of affairs. After some years, and after the rules and regulations had been arranged according to topics and divided into Books I and II, the CHM president and I presented the document to the English-speaking committee of the Sacred Congregation for Religious (SCRIS) in Rome in 1982. The committee, finding several sections unacceptable, told us to make mandated changes and resubmit the document. Since the total congregation had already approved the 1982 document, it was necessary that they subsequently vote on SCRIS's mandates. This CHM approval was not forthcoming, so for seven years the congregation followed Books I and II without papal approval. In 1988 a new rule-revision committee attempted to integrate the directives of SCRIS, now called the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life (CICLSAL) in such a way that our identity would not be compromised. We con-sulted a canon lawyer working in the English-language depart-ment of CICLSAL. Her suggestions included moving as many items as possible to Book II, which did not require canonical approval. The main objection of CICLSAL had been our election process. After numerous revisions we were able to present the document to the CHM general assembly in the summer of 1990. It was approved by the Representative Assembly in that year and sent to Rome requesting the approval date of December 8. We distributed approved copies to the congregation in the summer of 1991. We are still probing self-determination versus community focus. ~uly-August 2000 Pieper ¯ A Path of Humility and Truth That sisters could choose their work had both positive and negative results. By 1968 we were sending openings for available positions to community members. That sisters could choose their work had both positive and negative results. Some felt insecure in having to find their own positions. Sisters who were not good teachers or who had no interest in teaching were able to go to school and train for and find occupations more in keeping with their talents. Justice was adopted as the congregation's priority. More sisters began working directly with the dispossessed, and the congregation supported their efforts. After the recommendation of Pope Paul VI encouraging American religious to go to Latin America, Father Louis Colonnese, director of PAVLA (Papal Volunteers for Latin America), rec-ommended about half a dozen places to the sis-ters. All of these were dioceses where the bishop had a pastoral plan to follow the spirit of Vatican II. Several of us went to visit Bishop Samuel Ruiz Garcia of the San Crist6bal de las Casas diocese in southern Mexico. He took us over mountains to see places where sisters had been working to show us what had been done and what the pos-sibilities were. We were so impressed that we decided not to look further, but rather to use for the program in Chiapas the money we might have spent on airplane fare to other potential sites. We were urged to send sisters also to Ambato, Ecuador. Four si~ters went to these two missions; two are still in the San Crist6bal diocese. Although the commission on formation devised an extensive plan for formation, very few women applied. Furthermore, a :great many, particularly among those who were in temporary vows, left the congregation. Perhaps they were still in the process of being integrated in the congregation in a pre-Vatican II mode. Of the many reasons for the mass exodus from religious communities, I think a good many were cultural. Quite a few young women said that, if they could be as holy living as married women with chil-dren as they could as celibates in community, there was no reason to remain as sisters. The sexual revolution implied that one could not be a whole person without genital experiences. Some sisters, particularly those working directly with the poor, found that their primary community was one, other than the ClaMs. Some who left were those who had been dissatisfied for years. On the other hand, Review for Religious some were sisters who had worked most diligently and effectively for the changes. Some were unable to identify with a patriarchal church. Without a doubt all of us made mistakes. It might have been better to have informed our public about proposed changes, but we were intent on our internal study. In any case, I doubt if the pub-lic would have approved of the changes if we had asked them beforehand. The Sisters of the Humility of Mary moved some-what faster than other communities at this time of. change. As I watched communities that made the changes later, I used to think that I could be a consultant, telling them what to avoid. However, all of us had to learn from our own mistakes even though many of them were similar. Not everyone was mature enough to take per-sonal responsibility. The changes in discipline, clothes, works, and so on were only the expressions of a hope for the inner renewal of each sister and of the entire congregation. Celibacy in community has replaced obedience as the defining vow for sisters. Since the early 1970s, associates have expanded the search and service aspects of com-munity. Among the sisters, responsibility for private prayer some-times meant temporary abandonment of prayer altogether. Inner renewal is difficult to assess and is known only to God and the sister. Bishops witl~ whom CHMs worked were supportive during this time. One said that he did not understand everything that we did, but trusted us. On one occasion he commented, "I would never presume to tell a woman what to wear." Today we are an older and wiser congregation. The renewal set in motion in the 1960s has, I think, resulted in return to the spirit of our founders and a steady love for God, people, and the universe. Father Richard Hill 'SJ died on 29 January 2000 in the Jesuit infirfna~ at,Los' Gatos,~ Cahfornia: " 'Fathei" ~li ~sed~tor for c~nonical ~ounsel from Janua~ 1985 to July.19~)0. ~ : Let us remember him in burp~ay~ers~ July-August 2000 w. HENRY KEN-NEY Finding God's Willm A Maneuver finding God My title, "Finding God's Will," purposely suggests a prior search. In an age when some prefer to think of God as havin~ no specific will for individuals, but only a general wish for us to use our freedom well, the whole concept of seeking and finding God's will seems out of place. But I do not think it is. The theological assumptions behind searching for and finding God's will are, I believe, not of this age. They have appeared in the spirituality of countless saints, and espe-cially in those who lived in the last four or five hundred years. My large debt to an acknowledged master of search-ing for and finding God's will, St. Ignatius of Loyola, I gladly own. I am also quite indebted to dozens of pray-ers (my preferred term for directees) whom I have accom-panied on many a search and in many a finding. So my basic assumption is: God has a specific will which can be searched for and found--in large, medium, and lesser matters. A very good case, I believe, can be made that this is the prevailing assumption of the Bible and that it shines forth especially in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. For instance, along with many scripture scholars, I see Jesus' desert temptations as part W. Henry Kenney SJ, founder of the Bluegrass Spirituality Center in Lexington, Kentucky, is now a free-lance "prayer coach." His address is 153 Barr Street; Lexington, Kentucky 40507. Review for Religious of his search for the Father's will on how to undertake and exer-cise his public ministry. Near the end of his life, we see Jesus in Gethsemane struggling to get beyond his aversion to an igno-minious death ~and coming finally to embrace his Father's will peacefully and courageously. Presuppositions for Fruitful Searching My first presupposition is that searching for and finding God's will is a gift, and God's best gifts most often come in answer to persistent prayer. Hence, the guiding light for a searcher is: Beg, beg, beg. That repeats in short compass the longest teaching of Jesus on prayer: keep on knocking, seeking, begging for God to reveal their (Father, Son, and Spirit) will (Lk 11:1-13). For those who are settled into a significant prayer life, recipients of one of its gifts--a strong desire to know God's will--persistent begging for the revelation of God's will strikes them as quite right. To be given the knowledge of God's will and the courage and joy to do it is perceived by such pray-ers as a most precious gift coming from God's Spirit, the gift. Happy are they who experience their begging turned into receiving--the knowledge and love of God's s, pecific will for them. The second presupposition is that the principal impediment to finding God's will is my own will, often enough so attached to X or so averted from Y that it is very difficult or nearly impossi-ble for Y to be revealed as God's will. Spirituality writers used to call that state "attachment" or "lack of indifference." Currently that state is described as insufficient openness to God's will or lack of spiritual freedom. If I am mildly or strongly attached to getting married or averse to becoming a priest or religious, it is more difficult for me to recognize that God's wisdom and plea-sure are calling me to the priesthood or religious life. When there is very strong aversion or attachment, it is nearly impossi-ble to know and accept God's willing the opposite of our own wills. Let us state this positively. A necessary condition for our finding God's will is our possession of indifference, detachment, real openness to God's will--spiritual freedom. St. Ignatius of Loyola's Spiritual Exercises (§157) supplies a soul-testing remedy for such "inordinate attachments": When we feel an attachment opposed to X [Ignatius instances actual poverty] . it will be very helpful in order ~ly-.4ug~st 2000 Kenney ¯ Finding God's Will to overcome the inordinate attachment, even though cor-rupt na(ure rebel against it, to beg our Lord. to choose us to serve him in X. We should insist that we desire it, we should beg for it, plead for it, provided, of course, that it be for the service and praise of the Divine Goodness. (Puhl translation) With some discomfort I own that I have seldom suggested that a praying person follow §157's recommendation. However, from directing pray-ers (and from my own seeking of God's will) I have happened on to a maneuver that achieves, almost by indirection, what §157 seeks straight on. The third (and, for some, shocking) presupposition is this: God's will is usually revealed not by words or images, but by feel-ings: feelings of peace, of increased or continuing peace (called consolation), or feelings of diminished peace, of distancing (called desolation). Novice pray-ers have usually not had enough prayer and life experience of consolation and desolation for those feel-ings to be without the assistance of a spiritual guide--true instru-ments for revealing God's will to themselves. Conditions for Finding and Choosing God's Will Here are four necessary conditions for finding God's will: The first is spiritual freedom or openness. Being reasonably "at balance" is necessary for being really open to God's alternatives. How cru-cial this is can be seen in Ignatius's Exercises, in the extensive instructions and reflections given to help a praying person come to a reasonable level of spiritual freedom. The second is homework. Suffic-ient investigation of the par-ticulars of the available options (who, what, where, when, for how long, at what cost, and so forth) is absolutely necessary. Some per-sonality types want to rush into choosing before they have done their homework, or done it well enough. Pray-ers will often have discerned, in the first place, whether to commit themselves to an in-depth investigation of the alternatives, that is, the pros and cons of each. The third is kairos. There is a kairos, an appropriate time, for the discerning process. Some times are inappropriate, for example, wanting to know if I should accept a job offer before I am offered the job. That is clearly quite different from discerning on whether I should commit myself to investigate some job possibilities or to Review for Religious make some applications. Further, for those given .to control, there is often the temptation to discern alternatives--to have closure-- long before there is reasonable need for a decision. A help in the searching process is to fix the actual date wl~en a decision is needed. Then the discerner can assign a reasonable number of days for discernment before the due date. The fourth is a discernment companion. If a pray-er is leaning to one alternative and strongly dislikes the other, the aid of a dis-cernment companion is usually essential. The companion can help the praying persons to follow the process correcdy and thereby get beyond their subjectivity. Novice discerners with strong attach-ments are astonishingly adept at fouling up the discernment pro-cess. A person who read this article in manuscript form was dumbfounded to find in it a finger pointing out an inclination to subvert true discernment of a touchy personal decision. Even mature pray-ers, at least in their earlier searchings for God's will, usually have need of human help to discern and interpret patterns of consolation or desolation in response to their continued search-ing for the Lord's will. There would, then, be great risk if non-pray- ers or novice pray-ers attempted such formal discernment without a discernment companion, and even greater risk in the maneuver suggested below. The~, would too likely get into magic, divination, or self-deception. A ManeuvermOne Way of Searching for God's Will Central to the maneuver is repeatedly asking a loaded question of the Lord in the middle of prayer. I call it "popping the ques-tion." Unfortunately, there are several gloriously wrgng ways of popping the question. First is popping an unloaded question, such as, "Lord, do you want me to marry Susie?" That sounds quite sensible. What is so unproductive about this Way of phrasing the question is that it demands a vocal answer: "Yes" or "No." The Lord, however, is not in the habit of giving such answers. Not a few pray-ers continue to be scandalized that the Lord's preferred way of communicating "answers" to us is through our emotions, through consolations and desolations. A second wrong way of popping the question is to pop a ques-tion that is loaded towards the alternative the pray-er wants. This, unsurprisingly, greatly muddies the spiritual waters; self-gener-ated "peace" tends to obscure any subtle message from God. If I j~ly-August 2000 Kenney ¯ Finding God's Will greatly desire quitting my job and I keep asking, ".Lord, you want me to quit my job, don't you?" my strong emotional bias will give me so much'comfort that a contrary response from the Lord will likely be blocked out. Third, pray-ers will often fudge the process by alternately popping questions loaded against and loaded for themselves. Once again, muddied waters will result. A right way to phrase discernment questions is to use a loaded question consistently, a question loaded against my inclination or aversion and thereby loaded in God's favor. For a young or not-so-young woman attached to her single lifestyle, the loaded phras-ing of "Lord, you want me to marry Stan, don't you?" will cause disturbance, negative feelings, the first several times she pops it. These initial affective responses will likely prove untypical of responses later on, but she needs to experience them now. I say this because I have quite often seen sincere discerners surrepti-tiously (without knowing it themselves!) try to bypass such dis-comfort and get approval of the alternative they want either by asking an unloaded question or by unconsciously switching to the loaded question that favors their own present inclination: "Lord, you don't want me to marry Stan, do you?" Pray-ers that "lean" toward a preference of theirs need to be assured more than once that it is just as easy for the Lord to "answer" no to a loaded question as to answeryes. Understandably, many "leaning" pray-ersfeel that the question is too loaded against themselves for the Lord to be able to say no. In phi'asing discern-ment questions, it has gradually and experientially ~ome clear to me that it is much better to formulate the questions positively. For example, if a pray-er pops "Lord, you don't want me accept this job offer, do you?" the negative tends to muddy the process. The right-ness of the positively phrased question, "Lord, you want me to con-tinue in my present job, don't you?" can be sensed by pray-ers who lean toward accepting a new job. They experience more dis-comfort with positive questions than with negative ones. When to pop? I ask discernment questions of the Lord only, only, only when I am prayerful, that is, when I am at peace and have some sense of being with the Lord. Never do I ask when I am even a little unpeaceful or lack some real sense of being with the Lord. Praying persons, indeed, are frequently tempted to do this. If they yield, it is like asking the wall and expecting a revela-tory response within themselves as a reaction to the wall's action! Review for Religious When one is consciously with the Lord, whether in formal prayer or at'liturgy or at another time, a question should usually be popped only once. Popping the same question several times in the same ,prayer experience usually comes from a control drive that tends to commandeer the discernment process. How to pop? When I am in the middle of being connected with the Lord, I pop the question, as it were, eyeball to eyeball. Then I wait a short time, seconds. If I wait longer, I am trying to manipulate the Lord or influence my reactions. After popping I need to notice what happened to my con-nectedness and consolation. Did it remain the same? Did it increase? Was it subtly modified? Often pray-ers say "Nothing happened" after they popped the question. My response is "Something always hap-pens!" If my connectedness and peace remain the same, that is a very revealing, though low-key, response. Hence we need to keep a record of our post-popping reactions so that we may discover a pattern. How often to pop? For a small matter, once usually suffices if there has been a clear enough affective response. For larger mat-ters-- a new job, undertaking a volunteer project or pulling back from one--five, ten, or a dozen times usually give a clear picture. Very large questions--marriage, religiou~ life, another child, major change in employment or lifestyle--may need months of discern-ing. What is always being sought is a clear pattern of responses from multiple poppings. Confirmation. When repeated poppings have yielded a pat-tern that tells us we very probably know God's will in a large or very large matter, it is good to supplement the discernment with a further process that may increase and strengthen our careful cer-tainty. Regarding marriage, the confirming question (in full detail, useful for the first popping) could well be "Lord, I think you have revealed to me that you want me to marry Stan. That is your will, isn't it?" Interpreting patterns. If pray-ers' first discernment efforts involve large or very large issues, I usually say nothing beforehand about htw to interpret their experience. Rather, I tell them they should pop the question "about X times," note carefully what hap- I ask discernment questions of the Lord only, only, only when I am prayerful. July-August 2000 Kenney ¯ Finding God's Will pens to their state of peace while and after popping, and record the experience of each discernment. At our next meeting we look at and interpret the responses together. The interpretation is very simple: The experience of consola-tion confirms the loaded question, whereas a lesser peacefulness or a diminished sense of being with the Lord negates the loaded ques-tion. In the example "Lord, you want me to marry Stan, don't you?" the results of the maneuver may be "muddied" by several years of attachment to a single lifestyle. The first few poppings will probably bring feelings of desolation, coming from pain at the thought of possibly losing certain blessings of the single life. But it is the pattern'of consolations or desolations, derived from many spiritual experiences, that reveals whether the alternative is in harmony or not with God's wisdom and love, and with what is deepest in herself as well. It is worth adding that in using the maneuver people may often experience desolation in new ways. They may sense a sud-den loss of contact with the Lord--no more disturbing than the quiet loss of a telephone connection during a conversation. Or they may sense the onset of a "vacuum" feeling, a severe feeling of emptiness, immediately after popping the question. Such feel-ings are often quite subtle, but are clear instances of desolation nonetheless. Sundry Choices Made by Means of the Maneuver Somehow it seems more appropriate to place this section at the end rather than near the beginning. My hope is that it will give some feel for the variety of discernments. I give some instances of choices that go ~ith the chooser's natural preference as well as againstdt. Understandably, I fictionalize to protect confidential-ity, but give enough details to suggest a "feel" for the shape of dis-cerned choices. First, four examples of big choices: a woman in her thirties who had enjoyed an active lifestyle met a man whom she feared God might want her tO marry and thus have her lifestyle signifi-cantly altered. Hers was a long discernment, spread over a num-ber of months, and she gradually became more open to marriage, especially through the use of "Lord, you want me to marry Stan, don't you?" Postwedding life has proved the fittingness of her def-initely not easy choice. There is a greatly loved child, and she Review for Religious found herself saying, "It's clear to me that I'm growing up now." A man in his early forties, increasingly uncomfortable with his military-connected job, sought first to know if God wanted him to give up his job and seek training and employment in some-thing more oriented towards human service. It was difficult to consider giving up a well-paying job without knowing what the next, step would be. His discernment was eased by his having a substantial amount of savings. In his case the discernment of per-haps five or six months gave him the certainty (and courage) to quit his job. This led to discernment about further education and eventually to a people-centered ministry. A young woman, thirty-two, who came with a strong prayer life and dedication to helping the poor, was not charmed when I asked if she had thought about religious life. "I want to get married and have children." "What if God wants you in religious life?" was a question she did not enjoy. In some-thing like a month of using the loaded ques-tion "Lord, you want me to be a religious, don't you?" she came to much more spiritual freedom for either marriage or religious life. She found herself eager to know God's will clearly, whatever it might be. That desire was fulfilled in another month and a half by a definite vocation to a missionary order. A woman in her forties taught'alternativ~ high school (possi-bly a universal euphemism for teaching students less than sixteen and expelled from regular schools). She heard of the possibility of becoming chief financial officer for a large God's Pantry opera-tion; she was both very qualified and very attracted. When, how-ever, she frequently asking loaded questions about whether God wanted her to continue in her present job, she came up with no clear sense of direction. Then, almost immediately after she was actually offered the CFO job, her prayer was filled with clarity that God wanted her to continue teaching "alternatives"--the very drift of her original popped question. Next are two examples of "medium" choices, but I flinch at such labeling because often the consequences are major. Probably the saddest accompanying I have done was with a man in his for-ties who was in a cult-like abusive relationship. In a discernment "What if God wants you in religious life?" was a question she did not enjoy. .~uly-Aug~st 2000 Kenn~y ¯ Findin~ God's W~ll which was long enough and clear enough, the answer was yes to "You want me to give up my relationship with X, don't you?" The sadness is that the relationship continued with great harm to him-self and to his family. Though I tried to persuade him to get coun-seling, the abuser convinced him that that counselors do the work of the devil. A man in his early fifties is a first-rate high school teacher. He got the idea that it would be good to get a Ph.D., but dis-cernment dictated otherwise. He continued happily and effectively teaching for several years. Because he is very gifted, he was asked to do all sorts of things at school, at church, and elsewhere. Before using formal discernment he was seriously fatiguing himself by undertaking too many projects. He began using a discernment notebook. When asked to do something, he noted it, carefully constructed a question for popping, used it in prayer,and logged the '~results." He says. no a lot more now, and notes the absence of fatigue. Out of the blue a department chair at the university asked him to supervise graduate students doing their summertime practice teaching. Not only did his discernment yield a clear "No," but also an unusual pair of words, "You're enough"--exactly what he needed to hear. He has no need for other and ever new achieve-meats to prove and feel his self-worth. Other Ways of Discernment The maneuver suggested here is one good way of seeking and finding God's will. There are many other ways. Experimentation vs. popping. In several areas of our lives where the prayer discernment process proposed here is not appro-priate, experimentation is a privileged way of finding God's will. It can be used for how long to pray, where and when to pray, what type of prayer is best for one's "daily diet," how much sleep, exer-cise, food, and drink to get, and so forth. Experimentation is not trying X one day, Y another, and Z on the third. Rather, it is try-ing one way five to seven times, then trying another way five to seven times, and afterwards reflecting on our experiences, espe-cially on the quality of our lives during the alternative experi-ments. St. Ignatius Loyola observes: "Now since God our Lord knows our [individual] nature infinitely better [than we do], when we make changes of this kind, [God] often grants each one the grace to understand what is suitable for [us]" (SpEx §89). Review for Religious There is another way that God answers sincere prayer--and, here, prayer to know God's will. My sister, her husband afflicted with Alzheimer's, knew they had to move into some form of assisted living because her heart condition was making her ever less able to care for him. She was more inclined to get care eight hours per day rather than 24-hour care--too pricey, she thought. Her earnest prayer that God reveal Their will was strikingly answered. The next two nights her husband had diarrhea and did not know what the toilet was for. Clearly, day care would not suffice. Another way of discernment is, I think, proposed by St. Ignatius, but unfortunately I cannot document this. This way involves offering the Lord different options as one would present different dishes to an honored guest, waiting to see which' he prefers. I mention, too, the experience of a Baptist minister who, faced with significant choices, would open his Bible to random passages and find in them helpful suggestions towards a particular course of action. He would say, "The Scripture came and grasped me." Summing Up First, the maneuver suggested here for finding God's will in larger and medium discernments centers on popping loaded ques-tions to God in prayer and noticing the pattern of desolations or consolations. By examining the patterns, the pray-er comes to suf-ficient certainty (especially if there is a confirmation process) that God's will has been found. This maneuver has been instrumental for scores of pray-ers in finding the peace of certainty about God's will for themselves even, sometimes, in small matters. The out-comes of decisions arrived at in this manner have been uniformly good (with one exception), and pray-ers have continued secure in their discernments, free from attacks by second thoughts. For persons who approached a decision leaning somewhat or strongly to one alternative, an unplanned and unexpected result of using the maneuver is that repeated poppings of a question loaded against their inclinations brought them--gradually, but more rapidly than I had dared hope--to equanimity about, or even real openness, to the unwanted alternative. With only one excep-tion, those who were led to "tough love" decisions were able to embrace them peacefully and live them energetically. Those who were led by the right use of the maneuver to embrace alternatives July-August 2000 L3-77-- Kenney ¯ Finding God's Will in accord with their initial preferences enioyed the special conso-lation, of knowing they had sought and found not merely their own will, but also God's. Magnificat I want to thank with all my heart the unknown man who, this summer, hacked back and burned the briars and unruly gorse which had covered that singing stream between Boolagh Bog and Bockagh Hill. And I will, because now eye can feast on the smooth black tables of rock down which clear brown water tumbles and bubbles and makes white foam. Ear had always heard the choir under the gorse-and-briar canopy. Body had always sat or stood there, soothed by sound. Now eye and ear heart and bone and soul and tumbling stream are humming their Magn~'cat in unison. Bernadette McCarrick RSM Review for Religious HILARY OTTENSMEYER Consulting Your Inner Wisdom Mnuch of our United States consumer-society mentality vades our quest for spiritual growth. We snatch up the latest acclaimed spiritual authors. We dash off to the latest popu-lar workshops. We try to take in more and more. The effort is laudable, for there is this hunger within us to know more about God's plan for us and to draw nearer to Jesus. All the restless searching, however, ignores the treasure that lies right at our feet. We look everywhere, but we do not see it. As Meister Eckhart wisely put it, "all people have a vintage wine cellar, but they sel-dom drink from it." What I propose here is a stop to all this chas-ing about and an invitation to look into ourselves at the inner wisdom that is already ours. We have access to it. Where the Treasure Lies Have you .ever noticed how easily we slip into states of total absorption, into trancelike states? I imply nothing "spooky" here. This is simply the way our minds work on certain tasks. In that state of absorption, of inner searching, we step out of time, away from the settings around us. We become so focused on a single idea that no other thought, no other emotion, intrudes. People who use their mind in this way experience vivid imagery and feel overall such bodily responses as muscle tension and sometimes Hilary Ottensmeyer OSB last wrote for us in our January-February 1997 issue. His address remains 1414 Southern Avenue; Beech Grove, Indiana 46107. July-August 2000 Ottensmeyer ¯ Consulting Your Inner Wisdom heightened blood pressure. Common occurrences: driving right past your own home, not hearing what people say and asking them to repeat, and not noticing that the phone is ringing insis-tently. Sometimes, by single-minded concentration on a prob-lem, we may come up with a "Eureka!" experience and have a solution. Most of the time, however, I suspect we choose this kind of intensive focus when someone's word or action has wounded us, and we retreat inwardly to chew on the bitter rind of our hurt pride. My suggestion here is that the mind's same powerful ability to focus, its intensity and bright-point targeting, can be used voluntarily in prayer--only this time the focus is on the inner wisdom we all possess through the grace of baptism and indeed all the sacraments and through our enriching experiences of striv-ing to be faithful followers of Jesus and reflective readers of the Gospels. In this way of prayer, we ask the Spirit of Jesus to guide and enlighten us. When we Christians go into the center of our minds and hearts, it is the indwelling Spirit who greets us there. There we hear the echoes of the voice of Jesus and of all the good people who have been examples of faith and good conduct for us. That central core of ourselves is the inner wisdom of which I speak. It is there, and it is available. But let me make a few distinctions. Some Clarifications I am not referring here to centering prayer or at least to what I understand by centering prayer. To quote Father Thomas Keating in his excellent book Open Mind, Open Heart: "A thought in the context of [centering prayer] is any perception that appears on the inner screen of consciousness. This could be an emotion, an image, a memory, a plan, a noise from outside, a feeling of peace, or even a spiritual communication. In other words, anything what-soever that registers on the inner screen of consciousness is a 'thought.' The method consists of letting go. of every thought dur-ing the time of prayer, even the most devout thoughts." ~ What I am referring to here about consulting your inner wisdom probably comes close to what Keating refers to, and dis-misses, as self reflection?. This, Keating says, is to be got over in order to reach pure cont.emplation. My own proposal is a delib-eratefocusing of thought as if one were using a magnifying glass to Review for Religious ' direct the beams of the sun to one spot. Such a tactic could pen-etrate steel. The discipline I propose is not behavior modification. That highly effective psychological tactic involves visioning an unde-sirable behavior of mine, such as becoming angry with the choir habits of a fellow religious, and then seeing myself calmly allow that person to do his or her own thing without my usual emo-tional upset. Consulting our inner wisdom means having in mind a specific goal (more on this later), then cleansing our mind of external dis-tractions by some relaxation exercise, and, in that calm and focused meditative state, inviting the Lord (or some other spiritual counselor) to help us understand and move towards atti-tudes and behaviors more consonant Jesus, unlike ourselves, with the obedient love with which a allowed himself to Christian wants to identify. This differ-entiates consulting our inner wisdom be angry only.when from simple behavior modification because it sees the change in ourselves the Father's honor and as inspired by the example of Jesus and glory were attacked. not simply as a personal social or emo-tional adjustment, helpful though that might be. Take, for instance, the ques-tion of boundaries. We are all aware how careful we are to pro-tect the spiritual frontiers of our Christan, Jesus-inspired integrity. Anger, rooted in pride, is one such protection effort. Jesus, however, unlike ourselves, allowed himself to be angry only when the Father's honor and glory were attacked. See, for example, the cleansing of the temple or the "woes" in Matthew's Gospel. At all other times, personal attacks did not seem to move him emotionally. When we honestly consult our inner wisdom, we may note boundaries of ours that we fail to protect enough. We may fail to caution ourselves regarding the sight or memory of a sexually attractive person. We may carelessly allow ourselves to recollect wounding words or actions that, even years later, cause us to tighten our fists or clench our jaws. Reflecting upon our inner wisdom, we can suspect or see the dangers of these reactions and thereby find ourselves protected against deep tenacities and inva-sive roots. "When you bury hate in your heart, you bury it alive" is a piece of liberating wisdom worth remembering. ~,~-~-~L~ ~ July-August 2000 Ottensmeyer ¯ Consulting Your Inner Wisdom Some Helpful Preliminary Disdplines Any relaxation exercise that suits our personality may be used to induce a meditative state. Relaxing the muscles from the head on down throughout the body is a common practice. The point is to pull the mind away from the leaping about that characterizes our ordinary mental activity. As one Eastern mystic put it, "the mind is like a tree full of chattering monkeys." Another approach, count-ing backward from thirty, demands just enough concentration to clear the mind of other thoughts. Paying attention to your breath-ing also slows down the inner agitation. The current enthusiastic practice of walking a labyrinth serves the same purpose--certainly this was the reason why many European cathedrals have a labyrinth carved in the floor near the entrance. Working through a series of yoga exercises, too, or focusing on a mantra helps some achieve the same end. Before entering into such a disciplinary exercise, it is impor-tant to have a goal in mind: "Jesus, I want to go into the place where you live in me, sit with you there, and talk about this com-pulsion to anger, to judgment, that spurts up so frequently, so involuntarily within me. Open to me your way of living with anger, for you felt it too. Help me draw on the many times I have given in, and the times I have restrained myself and 'stuffed' down my anger, only to see it blaze up in a trivial context once again, a con-text that was most inappropriate. Lord, I want freedom--to the degree my frail humanity allows--freedom from this compulsion. Lord, I am admonished by the wisdom you,.and others, have taught me. I have seen people mellow with the years, and others grow sour. Seeing someone act harshly, hearing another cut into someone's reputation, I react angrily at once, from the simple proud conviction that 'I wouldn't do it that way!' And I quickly find myself locked emotionally and mentally into scathing criticism." Jesus gently points out to us--after we wait silently for a while--that the only times he became angry were when the Father was attacked, ignored, impugned in some way. Our petty and obsessive responses melt before his gentle encouragement. Sometimes when we journey inwardly we become more acutely aware how often we fall into stubborn, addictive behaviors about which we feel helpless. Who is this "other" person who shows up within me, powerful, demanding, whom I watch with anguish as if it were a stranger? We have tried therapy, prescription drugs, behavior modification. The one.thing lacking to these tactics-- Review for Religious and I do not deny their value--is this: They rarely draw on that inner wisdom, that Jesus-centered encounter, where true change can take place. For instance, Alcoholics Anonymous has helped innumerable people, and indeed has an important spiritual com-ponent, namely, surrender to a Higher Power. But surrender in faith is only a beginning. There needs to be private self-ques-tioning that draws on the inner wisdom with which we are graced. Wl~en an addictive, destructive pattern has invaded our psyche so that a part of our life has become disconnected from the normal flow of life, we need to reach into the deepest resources within us: grace, the voice of Jesus, our inner wisdom. Within this intense, highly focused place in our mind, we call on Jesus to walk us through another pattern of behavior. Mental rehearsal is common to many forms of psychother-apy. Seeing yourself in the company of Jesus, however, and con-trasfing sad experiences of the past with "bright angels" of wisdom and true freedom, we choose a different, liberating pattern of action. We establish new boundaries, mentally and visually mov-ing away from the edges of danger. The mental rehearsal itself is now a new behavior that we can draw on when temptation returns. The hand retracts instead of reaching for the bottle, the eyes turn away from the stimulus to lust (maybe "custody of the eyes" was not just a life-depriving tactic after all!), the serving spoon is put down after one moderate portion. Psychologists continue to study how the mind visualizes behaviors and procedures. Imagination and imagery can be used in very sophisticated ways. In a recent New Yorker article, Malcolm Gladwell asks: "What do Wayne Gretzsky, Yo-Yo Ma, and a brain surgeon named Charlie Wilson have in common?" The answer: their practice of careful visualization before any action is taken. These men are virtuosi, and they exercise their great technical skills internally first. They mentally see an action through to the end before they perform it externally. Charlie Wilson, during his morning run, looks at each of the day's operations in his head, visualizing the entire procedure and its potential outcome. He says, "When I was actually doing the operation, it was as if I were doing it for the second time." Once, after finishing an operation, .taking off his gloves, and heading off down the hall, he suddenly realized that "the tape he had been playing in his head didn't match the operation that had unfolded before his eyes. 'I was correlating everything--what I saw, what I ~dy-August 2000 expected, what the X rays said. And I realized that I had not pur-sued one particular thing. So I turned around, scrubbed, and went back in, and, sure enough, there was a little remnant of tumor that was just around the corner. It would have been a disaster.''3 Consulting our inner wisdom involves a similar attention to detail. The skills to visualize here, however, are not the motor skills, but rather the spiritual skills we have accumulated over the years through prayer, scriptural study, and the counsels of wise Christians in spiritual reading and in the living church. It is all there inside, waiting to be drawn on like a rich bank account. Adding to the Inner Wisdom We sometimes feel empty, wandering endlessly in our private deserts. We feel locked into decades-old mental labyrinths. Our motivation flags. Dorothy Day once told a reluctant young friend that God "makes us understand this distaste, this recoil from reli-gion. The lethargy comes from a. consciousness of the immanence of the struggle, the fact that it is unceasing and will go on to death, and we often think that sheer thoughtless paganism would be a relief. ''~ But deep within we accept what the great John Cardinal Newman wrote: "Prayer is to the spiritual life what the beating of the pulse and the drawing of the breath are to the life of the body. It would be as absurd to suppose that life could last when the body was cold and motionless and senseless, as to call a soul alive which does not pray. The state or habit the spiritual life exerts itself consists in the continual activity of prayer.''5 Our task consists in never giving up on the faithful practice of prayer. How often we have heard that! And each morning we awake with renewed intention. But then we shoot through the day like a bullet, "busy about many things"--good things, too. When we finally bring ourselves to our inner wisdom, finally sit at the feet of Jesus just for a while, it seems we hear him say: "Until you are convinced that prayer is the best use of your time, you will not find time for prayer." And the sentence haunts us, but also frees us now for the best use of our time. It is as though a key has turned in a lock. Sometime~ it is helpful to have a favorite saint join you in that central place of peace. St. Joseph, who never ~ays a word in the Gospels, is delighted when you join him for an evening and sit with him on a bench just outside the little house in Nazareth. Review for Religious Perhaps Mary will come out, too, and rest awhile as the sun sets behind the Galilean hills. There is a beautiful view from Nazareth over towards the Roman city of Sepphoris, and even beyond to-the great sea. They will talk to you if you question them. When Problems Arise, When Hopes Surface When we go with Jesus into th~ place of our inner wisdom, we make starding discoveries. We may find problems we did not know we have. We are likely to become aware of wasteful, regrettable ways that our head and heart have been capable of, but cannot well afford. There are innumerable clamorous voices. There is the insistent voice of the Problem Solver. He wor-ries relentlessl~ about the future. The muscles around his eyes are taut because he is always peering ahead, looking for solutions there in the distance. He causes headaches and upset stomachs. The expectations of others are his con-stant concern as he tries to weigh a chance remark, interpret a fleeting facial expression. There is no center from which he acts. Life is one wrenching effort to get control of things and people. His bulky appointment calendar, like Marley's chain, gives him away. Another recognizable voice inside us is the Self-Accuser. Her skin gets hot, her hands become fists, as she recalls awkward words and clumsy gestures from years past. She plays memory tapes over and over in our head. No one is more persistent in tearing us down than she is: "You have been in religious life for fifty years now, but that is no proof that God loves you." Nothing so saddens, so pierces the heart like this cry, one we have all heard many times. The Self-Accuser has only to stop talking and thus give,us a quiet moment to lift our eyes to the cross or listen to Jesus' many words of love for us, or to hear Yahweh's endear-ments in the words of prophets and psalmists. But, beaten down by the Self-Accuser's words or shrinking from her grimaces, hear-ing we do not hear, seeing we do not see--because the Self- Accuser in us relendessly shares her deafness and blindness with us, and we chronically allow it. Sometimes it is helpful to have a favorite saint join you in that central place of peace. j~uly-Aug~tst 2000 There are other inner voices. Perhaps most persistent is the voice of the Lonely One. It does not let us forget that we long to love and be loved, to hold and be held, to whisper and be whis-pered to, to beclose to Another and not feel so alone. Sometimes we do feel consoled and calmed. The lonely restlessness at the center of our being, however, can never be completely quieted; perhaps it is not meant to feel so much peace. It is a reminder of" our desire for our heavenly home. How poignantly John of the Cross describes this quest for the Beloved in his Spiritual Canticle: "Where have you hidden, Beloved, and left me moaning?" In the hollow center of the soul where inner wisdom and grace live, there also dwells this urgent longing, We carry this wound in our heart. We become aware of it sometimes with hopeful anticipation, some-times with fear. In time, achieving greater integrity--the union between what we appear outwardly to others and what we know inwardly to be true--may calm us to some degree. Disturbing voices within us are balanced by "bright angels" calling us to. greater integrity. We long for inner peace, but only sometimes, with our inner wisdom, do we experience a joyous hope for it. Letting Memory remind us "of those splendid moments when we were touched by God, when we felt the reality of God deeply, is inner wisdom. Those blessed recollections remain when thought and emotions became as one with.an intensity that seems like an embrace. These are wells to which we can return time and again. Another support is Imagination: gathering together the way-ward impulses of our heart, humbly putting them before Jesus as the woman caught in adultery did during her brief moments with him after all the others had gone. And she heard him say, "Neither do I condemn you" (Jn 8:11). We long to hear such healing words, words of forgiveness that bring an offer of reconciliation. Unlike her, we may still hold out, failing to hear those words because of our pride and shame. St. Paul insists: "We entreat you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" (2 Co 5:20). The repetition of per-sonally inspiring gospel texts (we all have our own)--in a mantra-like fashion, but more intentionally, until they infuse the heart--evokes and strengthens the inner wisdom. "The Father will give you whatever you ask him in my name" (Jn 15:16). "You did not choose me, but I chose you" (Jn 15:16). Allowing such words to soothe the heart steadies our resolve. As the Curg d'Ambricourt affirmed on his deathbed in Georges Bernanos's novel The Diary of a Country Priest: "All is grace." l~eview for Religious Jesus the Center of Our Being It helps to anchor our resolve in one basic' truth: Jesus is the center of our being, our very existence. Until we can accept that, we cringe when we hear Jesus uttering those breathtaking demands to his disciples: "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever does not take up h.is cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it" (Mt 10:37-39). Who does this Jesus think he is, pushing into our lives and taking them over? Presuming on our most instinctive loyalties! Preempting our deepest affections! Usurping our natural ties to father, mother, son, and daughter! Boldly proclaiming himself the most important person in our lives! This cross which he demands we take up daily disorients our whole lives, doesn't it? These demands are one way of forcing us to admit quite simply--and we are dazed by the thought--that we are not the center of our own life. Everything in our consumer culture tries to convince us that we are. If we can swallow and digest that one truth, many of the pieces in this vast jigsaw puzzle of our lives would fit together wonderfully. When we realize that Jesus made us the center of his life within his obedient love for his Father--these demands become acceptable, even desirable. My favorite image of intimacy with Jesus comes from John's Gospel. The beloved disciple, while re.clining at table on that unforget-table evening, leans back onto the breast of Jesus. Consulting the inner wisdom that God has put into our hearts, we know we are invited to do the same. Do we have the courage, the love, to do so? Notes ~ Thomas Keating, Open Mind, Opoz Heart (New York: Amity House, 1986), p. 35. 2 Keating, Open Mind, p. 112. 3 Malcolm Gladwell, "The Physical Genius," New Yorker, 2 August 1999, p. 63. 4 Dorothy Day, "Letter to an Agnostic," America (90th Anniversary Issue) 180, no. 13 (17 April 1999): 8. s Quoted in Saint Meinrad Archabbey's Community Bulletin, 4 July 1999, p. 2. ~dy-August 2000 EILEEN E O'HEA Tell Them, Tell the New Members. religious vocations A Mission is clear. That is, most if not all religious insti-tutes have spent days, weeks, months on mission state-ments for their communities. And they have done this bravely, wisely, prayerfully. These statements, coming from their lived experience as dedicated men and women, represent not only what they are doing now but also what they hope to do, or do better, or do more of. Concern for the poor, the marginalized, the disenfran-chised is a substantial part of communities' commitment to do whatever they can to facilitate the reign of God here on earth. A sister in my community, Elaine, one we all agree is charismatic in the true sense of the word, has been riding the chartered bus from New York City to the Bedford Hills Women's Correctional Facility every other Sunday. The bus is filled with inner-city children going to see their mothers. It is a two-hour ride. Elaine's con-cern for the women in prison and for their continuing relationship with their children has made these Sunday visits possible. For more than thirty years Elaine has worked in what she calls "the slammer." Eileen P. O'Hea CSJ, a decade-long contributor to our pages, had her third book published in May: In Wisdom's Kitchen: The Process of Spiritual Direction (Continuum). Her address is still 1750 Marion Street, #8; Roseville, Minnesota 55113. Review for Religiotts "The slammer" is an accurate term because, as Elaine enters, at least ten gates must open and slam shut before she gets to the room where she works within the razor-wired enclosure of this maximum-security prison. The room is now called The Children's Center. Elaine's job has been to do whatever she can to help the women keep in touch with their children. This article will not attempt to describe all that is involved in Elaine's ministry in prison, or to describe the eight convents (called Providence Houses) that she and others have reopened so that women leaving prison have a place to live and a chance to begin again in a new environment. Their children come too, of course. The sisters liv-ing in these houses with the women and children are quite clear about the mission-and-ministry statements of their congregation, the Sisters of St. Joseph of Brentwood, New York. Stories like Elaine's (or Eugene's, as the case may be) are true of individuals or groups in many communities--and are attract-ing new members. "Come and see," we say. Come, join us in try-ing to make a better world. Come, help to bring about systemic change. Every year a few do come. They are searching; they seek something worthwhile to give their life to. They want to make a difference, and they want to be with others, with communities that are facilitating the reign of God on this earth. For some new members, religious life seems to work for a while but then seems to be "not enough," not enough of what they looked for or hoped to find. "What do you get for doing this?" they ask, or "Why stay?" after the excitement of discovery fades; "I can do this without a vowed life of poverty, chastity, and obedience." And they are right; they can. Many women and men, ¯ married or partnered, hold the same values and are involved in the same types of ministry. When we invite new members into this little piece of the vine-yard, into participating with us in mission and ministry, we often forget a simple truth that might literally be underneath their skin. New members seem to be looking for three things: ° a lived expe-rience of gospel values through the mission and ministry of the community; ¯ intimacy, which is part of the friendship found within community; ° and intimacy with the Divine. It is this third one I am concerned about. Elaine and the Providence House sisters are, without a doubt, prayerful, God-centered, holy women. They reflect on the day's Scriptures together, talk about the meaning of the texts for their July-August 2000 O'Hea ¯ Tell Them, Tell the Nay Members. personal life and for their ministry, and they are committed to some personal prayer each day, usually some form of contempla-tive prayer. If we put prayer, community life, and ministry together, then why is it "not enough"? Admittedly, prayer or Scripture shar-ing sometimes means that those present share their personal strug-gles, philosophies, and theologies and thus can seem too intellectual, or too focused on the external ministerial needs, or too routinely self-focused. Most times, however, it is a heartfelt response to divine inspiration and the Gospels. Is this not "enough"? Perhaps not. Maybe those great mentors like Elaine and others are not sharing quite enough with the new member. We seem to do well at providing and accompanying new mem-bers in meaningful ministry. We also share community and friend- ~hip withthem, but we know, and hope they know, that we cannot supply what did not happen for them in their families of origin. Alice Miller, a leading psychologist of our time, states: "What you didn't get at age two, you will never get." Why? Not because we will not know love and affirmation, but because we will not know them as a two-year-old needed to know them. Intimacy and love is often an issue for new members, and they must work hard at discerning what they are meant to find within the community and what they must find within themselves. Frequently they feel there is not enough intimacy because deep friendships seem hard to find among the members. This is so because most of the members are much older, or are already bonded in relationships that have endured for years, or because the older members are so involved in their ministry that they do not have the time or the energy for anyone else. We probably will never resolve successfully all that is involved in the struggle for intimacy and love within religious communities, but we can do better. What remains after considering prayer, community life, and ministry is this: What do we get for doing all this? What has kept Elaine trudging up to the slammer each day for thirty years? What makes h6r such a holy woman? Is there some experience so sus-taining that makes it worth everything? Is it possible that you, Elaine, have experienced being grasped by Divine Love? Is there something that happens, intimacy with the Divine, that holds you, sustains you, makes you the very delightful and humorous person we all know? Did you encounter Christ in your ministry to the poor and is this what transformed you? Do you, Elaine, know, really know, intimacy with Divine Love or know you dwell in inef- Review for Religious fable Mystery? And is what you experience available to me, the new member? Can you tell me---if, indeed, it did happen for you-- whether it happened all at once, or gradually through the years, and what kinds of psychological, emotional, and spiritual ups and downs you have gone through? Was there one experience that was more formative for you than any other? Intimacy with Divine Love (and people experience it in a variety of ways) is what the human heart longs for, searches for. Our nature is such that we are all meant to realize union in and with the Divine even though each of us will experience it differ-endy. So, when we invite new members to "come and see," we must tell them what they get. In my novitiate days the sixty-four novices (thirty-two have remained these forty years) were told by a very wise and very Irish mistress of novices that, if we left all, we would receive back a hun-dredfold. Did we? I cannot speak for others, but my guess is that most (maybe not all) would say yes and that they would make the same life choice if they had the opportunity to live it over again. They just never say exactly why they would do this. Intimacy in any human relationship of true love is rarely spoken about in detail. The same is true of intim, acy in and with Divine Love. Mystics write about human and divine love because they break through egoeentricity and are no longer reticent or ashamed to speak of the wonder, the awe, the love they experi-ence. Poets write of human and divine love and tease our spiritual appetite by circling around some pro'found experience. They are like eagles riding the air current, then soaring so high we lose sight of them and what they are expressing. They stir up the embers of our hearts with their hints, but eventually leave us feel-ing tantalized by possibility. I do not think it can be any other way. Relationships of true love are intrinsically mysterious because the experience is beyond words, beyond intellectual constructs. The words of the poet point us to the moon, as the Zen saying goes, but once you see the moon the pointer is no longer neces-sary. In fact, it is an impediment. What remains after considering prayer, community life, and ministry is this: What do we get for doing all this ? July-August 2000 O'Hea ¯ Tell Them, Tell the New Members. What ke~ps us from at least giving hints as poets and lovers do? What can we say to new members if we are not poets? Some, like the poets, will use romantic language to describe their expe-rience of the Divine; others will be more concrete or more tran-scendent in expressing their experience. Recendy, at the end of a mission-and-ministry convocation, someone complained that he seldom heard Jesus referred to throughout the weekend. One of the participants responded by asking, "Is it more important to quote Scripture and refer explic-itly to Jesus or to do what he did and invite people to share the communion of table fellowship with us?" A good question, a great response. It has a familiar ring to many of us. It is the tension between doing works of justice and peace and theologizing about them, and then reflecting on them and integrating them as part of our own personal journey of faith. Simply naming God and Jesus as we talk about our lives and ministry is not what I am referring to. I want "hints" from Elaine and from the remaining thirty-two members of my novitiate. I think the reasons we hesitate to speak about our religious experi-ences are many. We do not all believe the same things about God or Jesus any more, and we do not want to offend, or we are afraid of exposing what is most sacred to us because it might meet with disdain and scoffing, or become the subject of theological combat. And so we are quiet. The pearl of great price is buried. Religious experience is always unique, different with every individual. Two categories, however, help to explicate distinct modes of experience. For those whose religious experience is the esoteric, God is the One beyond all names .and forms and is Mystery. There is nothing to say and nothing to tell because, over their years of spiritual searching, they have discovered this truth: God is ultimately an ineffable Mystery. Some not only take refuge in this discovery, but even collapse into it. They stop searching and ride on their limited knowledge, presuming that what they have discovered is all that can be realized. Consequently, their relationship with ineffable Mystery is rarely spoken of. I think some new members want to know that this experience of ineffable Mystery is not the dead end of the spiritual journey, but a realized source of joy in the one experiencing it; that this connection with the Divine, an experience beyond any human connection, makes a life of celibacy the only choice for them; and that it is this par-ticipation in divine life that impels them to minister to others and Reviev~ for Religious thereby have an experience, however fragile, of equanimity, integrity, wholeness. Esoterics must learn how to share their expe-rience of ineffable Mystery with the new members and admit to them that there is such a thing as the hundredfold. For some others, another type of religious experience is open, one frequently referred to as exoteric. It is the experience of a personal relationship with the