DiGeronimo, Arthur 1-1 Transcription
In: CIC DiGeronimo, Arthur 1-1 - Final.pdf
Part one of an interview with Arthur DiGeronimo. Topics include: Arthur's family history and how his father came to the United States. Arthur's early life growing up in Fitchburg and Leominster, MA. Memories of visiting his grandparents in East Boston. His father's military service and work history. Arthur visited his father's birthplace, Lacedonia, in Italy. His childhood memories of visiting Lake Samosa, working for his father's market, and going to school in Fitchburg. Arthur's family life in general growing up. The importance of education. Arthur attended Becker College. His time in the service during World War II. What it means to be an Italian American. The traditions his family has carried on. Arthur's thoughts on the difference between his generation and his parent's. How his sons joined the family supermarket business. How life will be different for the later generations of his family. ; 1 LINDA ROSENLUND: This is Linda Rosenlund with the Center for Italian Culture. It's Thursday, September 27 at 2:35, and we're here with Arthur DiGeronimo and Anne [Rosevero]. And I'm Linda Rosenlund, like I said. So Arthur, thank you for making time for us. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, it's nice of you to come, after a little telephone tag [laughter]. LINDA ROSENLUND: Right, that's what happens with busy people. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes. LINDA ROSENLUND: So can you tell me your full name and when you were born? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Sure. Arthur Paul DiGeronimo. I was born right here in Leominster. We're at the office at my executive offices for my business, supermarket business. And funny thing, right across the street was where I was born, by the North Main Street. This is 75 North Main Street. I was born right across the street from here. That was in nineteen -- not sure it's 1926. LINDA ROSENLUND: Wow. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: A couple of years ago. [Laughter] And you want something about my family, probably? LINDA ROSENLUND: Sure. First tell us your parent's names. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Sure. My mother's name was Mildred, and my father's name was James. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. Now, did they come to -- they came to this country, didn't they? You can shut that all the way. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: My mother was born in Fitchburg, and my father was born in Italy, in Lacedonia, Italy. My father… came to this country when he was nine years old. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: With his father and two of his brothers. 2 LINDA ROSENLUND: Now, what region is Lacedonia in? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Lacedonia is… it's in Naples. It's Avellino, but they call us… Napolitans, which is from Naples County. Even though it was a quite few miles from… Naples. It was about, Avellino was about maybe 50 miles, and Lacedonia is another 30 miles going out toward the other coast. ANNA ROSEVERO: [Adriatic]. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Right. LINDA ROSENLUND: So, you said that your mother was born here? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: My mother was born in Fitchburg, right at -- they call it the Patch, on Water Street in Fitchburg, which I was very proud of even though I don't know where they got that name from, but that's that. And there was strictly more Italians there than anywhere. Mostly Italians lived on that Water Street section of Fitchburg. And then I went to school in… well, that's right. I was born in Leominster, we moved to Fitchburg in the first grade. And so I went to Fitchburg School until my sophomore year, and then we moved to Leominster right on North Main Street, right near here, too. And… 124 North Main Street, to be exact, and we're 75 North Main Street at the office here. And I finished my junior and senior year in Leominster High School. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. So when did you move back to Fitchburg? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: We moved when I was six years old. LINDA ROSENLUND: Six. Now, did you move back to the Patch? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: No, no, we moved from the south side of Fitchburg, which was called [the South Pole]. Yeah, it was on Mountain Avenue in Fitchburg, which is off of South Street. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. So, can you tell me a little bit about the Patch? Anything that you remember?3 ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: No, other than… I mean, I never lived there, but I can tell you too much about all the years when they used to have markets. They used to have [Gloria chain] markets and DiMinno's market, who was a cousin of ours, the DiMinno family. The DiMinno family's mother and my father were brother and sister, so those are my first cousins. LINDA ROSENLUND: So your mother grew up on Market Street? I mean, the Patch? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Water Street. Water Street. Yes, yes. LINDA ROSENLUND: So did you know your mother's parents? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, very well, yes. Yeah. They were Spadafora. They had a street tenement block, and downstairs was a drug store by the name of [Darmin] Drug Store if I remember correctly. My memory isn't as good as it used to be. And… my grandmother and grandfather lived on the second floor, and my aunt and uncle on the third floor. LINDA ROSENLUND: And what were your grandparents' names? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: My grandparents' was Spadafora, Michael and… Marianne. LINDA ROSENLUND: So can you tell me a little bit about visits with them? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, yes. A lot of visits. But they did move to Boston, to my mother's sister. She went to live in Boston with my mother's sister's family. And that was in East Boston, you know, on Bennington Street in the East Boston. LINDA ROSENLUND: How old were you at that time? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: I don't recall that. I would think it would be early in life, maybe even… no. If it comes to me, I'll let you know about how old I was. At this point I can't… and I remember going to Boston to visit quite a bit, Sundays with my father, his only day off from the market. He started the business, my father and uncle started the business, and I 4 remember as a child him driving my family to Boston to visit with my aunt and uncle and my grandmother and grandfather. We got to know cousins who were involved. And my aunt had five daughters. She didn't have any sons. So, when I went down for a visit, they treated me like a brother, you know? I'm talking about the cousins, the girls. They were about my age, and they loved to see us come, my brother and I. I didn't mention my brother Michael. I had a brother, Michael, who was killed in World War Two in the Yankee division during the Battle of the Bulge. It's skipping all around, but this is the way it's coming to me, you know? LINDA ROSENLUND: Oh, that's all right. That's how it happened. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: My aunt's name? Aunt Jeanette. LINDA ROSENLUND: Jeanette? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: My aunt Jeanette and my uncle was uncle Peter. [Foralla], their last name was [Foralla]. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. Okay. So basically, you remember visiting your grandparents… ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, quite often. LINDA ROSENLUND: … in East Boston, but not really Fitchburg? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: In Fitchburg… well, you know, I don't recall. Yes, yes, because I remember when my grandfather died, I was old enough… to see my grandfather when he passed away. So… so, yes. I recall, I recall going to Boston as I got older, you know? Like, I'm talking about the years, maybe, when I -- my teen, my teen years, we used to go to Boston. And Fitchburg, my grandmother and grandfather were… I was a lot younger then. LINDA ROSENLUND: So what were dinners like? 5 ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: We used to love to go to for dinner. Actually, Italian food, the pasta, the meatballs, slashes in the pork, yeah. Fond memories are there. I can always remember the good eating times [laughter]. LINDA ROSENLUND: So tell me what a Sunday was like when you would go visit. Did you go to church, or…? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, no, we'd go to church here. We'd leave after church and drive down -- fond memories of [unintelligible - 00:09:17] we couldn't make it in an hour, it took a little longer. But our mother, what fascinated me the most was going through the tunnel. It's not the Callahan, the [unintelligible - 00:09:32] Tunnel, yeah. [Unintelligible - 00:09:34] We got to go through a tunnel, you go underwater, you know, and you're just a little, you're not too old, and it was thrilling to do it, you know? And we'd always, I'd always kid my mother, I'd say, "Gee, can we move to Boston?" because it was fascinating, you know? It was so much different than being in the small, small town, you know? But we had some nice times there. My uncle, which is my mother's brother, Uncle Tony, he was a druggist. And on the first floor tenement home in East Boston, he had a drug store on the bottom floor. But what a great guy he was also. All my uncles were, but… I can remember fond memories of him. We would raid his drug store when we were at the… because they lived on the second floor, my grandmother and grandfather and uncle, and business was on the first floor. And my uncle Tony and his wife lived there also. And he would open up that, he would -- we could go downstairs five times a day and have ice cream. He used to make ice cream, sodas and we used to raid the place and he never complained once. We'd 6 come in, he'd leave his customers to come and take care for us, you know? Because we didn't go every week, you know? Maybe once a month or twice a month, something like that, you know? So, it wasn't that we went a lot of times. But fond memories of eating ice cream cones and… I'll never get vanilla ice cream sodas; I used to have three or four before we'd leave come back Sunday. And he loved doing that. And my grandfather, God love him, he was a very quiet man. But he was, if you got to know him, he was very, very witty. You know, I can remember him doing little dances for us. And before we left, every one of us kids got a half a dollar. In them days, you know, that's like, probably like a donut, you know? We enjoyed them. And I have a son, Michael, that I named Michael, who's -- I think you know Michael too. He's very like my grandfather on my mother's side—very quiet, and yet he has the same characteristics as my grandfather. Very, very similar. I mean, he is today too. It's funny that I named him Michael, you know? And I named him Michael because of my brother, who was killed in the service, and my grandfather. And my grandfather on my father's side. I mean, my -- yeah. My grandfather on my… LINDA ROSENLUND: Your great-grandfather or you grandfather? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: My grandfather, his name was Michelangelo. So a lot of Michaels in the DiGeronimos. LINDA ROSENLUND: Interesting. Now, those sodas that you were talking about and the ice cream, was there any place like that in Fitchburg or in Leominster that you used to go to? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, yeah. Downstairs at [Dormin's], and I don't really recall that going into drug stores when I was too young. 7 But, you know, the general ice cream cone has taken us to places around town for ice cream cones and things like that. Yes. LINDA ROSENLUND: So tell me about your father. How old was he when he came here? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: My father was nine years old. Yeah. And he entered the service in nineteen… when the war broke out, the World War One, now. Okay. He went, he was drafted, went in the service, he served. Then when he got out, he went to work in a foundry, and he didn't like to work there because for health reasons, you know, the breathing and everything, working in the foundry. And that's when he went to business with his brother who, Michael, who was killed, who was wounded in the World War One. And the two of them started with a supermarket in 1923. Not supermarket, I'm sorry, market. [Laughter] You'd thought it was big. Oh, about twice the size of this office! [Laughter] And that's what they started on Mechanic Street in Leominster. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. Now, about your father, who did he come here with? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: He came here with two of his brothers, and his father brought them over. My grandfather was married three times. And it wasn't because he divorced or anything, but his first wife died very, very young, and his second wife was my grandmother. And I never knew her. She died of a -- I don't think, she was just close to 40 years old. She died very young also. But she had a lot of children, many. I would think about a lot of them, probably, with the [unintelligible - 00:15:21] then after she died, he went to Italy and he married, he brought back another Italian lady that was to be my… step grandmother. And she had one, 8 which would be -- you probably know… my uncle Tony DiGeronimo, whose son is a priest, Michael DiGeronimo. So they're related, you know, they're half. He was a half-brother to my father. LINDA ROSENLUND: Why did your father decided to come to Fitchburg? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, no. No, we were in Leominster first. We moved -- yeah, we moved to Fitchburg. I'm sorry, yeah. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay, so… ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: We moved to Fitchburg when I was six, so I lived here until I was six years old. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: And then we moved to Fitchburg and then we moved back my junior year, my sophomore year. LINDA ROSENLUND: So, why Leominster then? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, the business is in Leominster. We all -- why did we go to Fitchburg? LINDA ROSENLUND: No, I'm sorry. [Laughter] ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: That's right. LINDA ROSENLUND: Why did your grandfather choose Leominster to settle? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: I don't know if I can give you an answer to that, really. Just coming into this country, yeah, I think it had something -- it must have something to do with building of the railroads, I think. Something -- I really, I would have to ask. Maybe my sister would probably know. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. I was just wondering if there were any family stories of why Leominster was chosen. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: I don't know. I really… I'd have to think about that one. LINDA ROSENLUND: Now, was your grandfather a laborer in Italy? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes. Not a laborer, no. He was like a sheriff. He was in charge of a jail. He didn't own it. I mean, he just worked as the principal in the jail that they had in Lacedonia.9 LINDA ROSENLUND: Now, that's a new one. I haven't heard that yet [laughter]. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yeah. That's the truth too. And I guess he left just to get to better things in America, like a lot of the Italians who came here. But he came earlier, that was in his first trip over. He came earlier then went back and got two of his sons and daughters and brought them back. Yeah. LINDA ROSENLUND: Have you been back to the village? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: I certainly have. LINDA ROSENLUND: Tell me about that. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yeah. A few years back my wife and I and my sister and her husband, Mike [DeBitteto], the four of us went to Italy for 17 days. Just a few years back, not a lot, a lot of years, maybe seven or eight years ago. And naturally, we had to go to… you know, when you're in Rome and then you go to Naples and you go to Capri and Positano, Amalfi Drive and the things like that. And then, oh it's time to go find Lacedonia. Well, what a job finding that! I mean, well, it's near Avellino, that's the thing. So, we got our directions and we took a ride through the [Malfi Drive], and… oh, humorous story. We rented a limo for the day with the driver, and I don't want to drive out there not knowing where I was going. And I asked him, I says… he says, "Where are you going?" We said, "We're going to Avellino. I want to go find out where my father was born, and that's in Lacedonia." And he says, "Yeah? This is Lacedonia. You never heard of it?" Now, here's a kind of a guy who should know his way around Italy, right? So, he says, "It's near Avellino?" I said, "Yeah," so we got out of Avellino. Well, he stuck. He didn't know where to go from there. So he started asking different people. And we couldn't talk Italian. My mother and father never spoke to 10 me, and I regret today, I would love to have had them to talk Italian to me every day. And, you know, besides the English language, I would have loved to really learn it. But I can understand a little, few things here and there, you know? I pick up on something. In fact, I know a few words in Italian. Not bad ones either, I'm talking about some pretty [laughter]. I can start off a little. Anyway, he finally talked to someone in this town there about Lacedonia. And he says, "Lacedonia?" He says, "That's about 30 0r 35 miles toward the Adriatic, right?" And I said, "Fine, let's go!" right? And the he says, "No, no, no," he says, "You gave me $300 to take you to Avellino," he says. I said, "Look, take me there. Whatever it is, I'll take care of you. Don't worry," you know? So, anyway, he complained all day long that he had to drive another 35 or so miles. So as we drove through -- and nice highways, up that way, gee, I saw a sign that said [Forgio] about 20 miles. And we were near Lacedonia, but it was kind of like Lacedonia was this way and Forgio -- I didn't know we were that close to Forgio. And I'm always kidding my friends who, their parents are from Forgio -- Forgians, they call them. And I kid them that, "Oh, that's not even in Italy," you know, "just Lacedonia is in Italy" [laughter]. But, so we got up there. It was up a little mountain. You could see it from a highway, you know? It was out in the -- cute little place. And we got into town, and I'll never forget… we saw my father's birthplace, of which we surely took pictures. I have pictures of all that. You know, one of the biggest shows of my life was going to see where my father was born. Don't mind me. I break up a little. But we did that. We went to -- oh, we were 11 walking along one of these streets, and I look down the road and I see DiGeronimo Market. LINDA ROSENLUND: A market? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yeah. I forget -- what was the name for market, do you know? ANNA ROSEVERO: Is it [unintelligible - 00:23:05] bodega? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Something like that. But they had a big sign on the road and everything. I really got excited at that. So I went down, and there was a little, small inn, about as big as this, about as big as my office here, no bigger than that. And he had all kinds of meats, fresh meats and cold cuts. He didn't have canned goods. It wasn't a full market, you know? But he had fish and different refrigeration cases, little produce, no groceries, really. So I walked in there and he was still waiting on a customer. Now, he doesn't know me. I didn't know him and he doesn't know -- his name was John DiGeronimo. And I… I didn't know how to start talking, because he started asking me, you know, what do I want to buy, you know? So I took my license plate and my license number, right, out of my wallet, and I handed it to him. I said, "I'm a DiGeronimo." He looked, he come, and he hugged me. He, "Follow me." My wife and I and my sister, we go, closes the market up right across the street to his home, right across the street. And there we met -- now, this has got to be a distant cousin I have, we couldn't even put out parents, but we must have been related somehow, you know, distance, [unintelligible - 00:24:52]. But we went over there and we met his wife, a lovely lady with two of the nicest daughters, and they were, they treated us as if they had known us… you know, we were so thrilled, and 12 they wanted us to stay overnight with them. I mean, they couldn't have been any more far, you know? And they didn't know we were coming or who we were, you know? They just -- we had some pictures with us, and we showed them pictures of my father, things about my father lived, he was born here and things like that, you know. But that was one of the nicest things. And naturally, they wouldn't let us go. We had to eat, we had to eat before we -- and now, the little guy is getting real nervous. When we finally left—and we must've stayed at least two or three hours with them—they wouldn't let us go. We kept saying that we got to go, and they actually stopped us. And we didn't want to barge on anybody, you know? So, anyway, we had a good time with them exchanging our family pin. Gloria did most of the talk, because Gloria, my wife's mother and father, were from Italy also. And that's another story, but you probably don't want to hear that one, I don't know. But they're from… I'd say Abruzzi, Corfinio and Abruzzi, and we went there too. Yeah, we -- I'll tell you a little bit about that. LINDA ROSENLUND: Yeah. Now, what year are we talking when you went back? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: When we went back? Oh, I'd say five, six years ago. LINDA ROSENLUND: Interesting. Did you see any family resemblance? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, yes, yes. Definitely DiGeronimo trait, and don't ask me what it is. We got to the nicest man, and I can't say enough about him. And we correspond, we used to. Now we haven't for the last couple of years. But first when we got home, we started back and forth, but it was nice. We sent them things and they sent us things, stuff like that. But it's a warm feeling, you know? 13 LINDA ROSENLUND: I have to ask you something, and it's not even about this, but you just mentioned -- did you mention your sister was married to… Michael? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: DiBitteto. LINDA ROSENLUND: Oh, it's very strange because I went to Assumption College with Mike DeBitteto. But when I came here and heard you talking, I thought of him immediately. Because there's something about you. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, it's got to be. It's got to be Michael. LINDA ROSENLUND: He worked at the insurance, yes? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes, right across the street. LINDA ROSENLUND: [Laughter] I've lost touch with him now, but I used to know him very well, and somehow you… you resemble him a little bit. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: He is my nephew. LINDA ROSENLUND: Very strange. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes. Nice boy, very nice boy. LINDA ROSENLUND: As soon as you said the name, I thought, "I have to share this." [Laughter] ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Are you going to leave a [catch], or I can tell him… LINDA ROSENLUND: I don't have one, but I'll leave my name. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Name? Yeah, yeah. I'd love to tell him about it. Yeah, great. LINDA ROSENLUND: Good. Interesting. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yeah, that's who I was with, his mother, with his mother and father on that trip, 17 days. We had a great time. LINDA ROSENLUND: Did you? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes. We want to go back now. They want to go back, so it's just, "Whenever you're ready." But I was playing on something next year, but I hope we'll be able to go by then. Things may be under control. They may have enough of 14 these maniacs so that we can live our lives again, you know? LINDA ROSENLUND: I was with a woman this morning who has a son that lives in Spain, and she told me that he told her that they arrested 30 people yesterday from Spain. Terrorists. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, wow. LINDA ROSENLUND: So, I think there's a lot happening in other countries. Maybe we're not even hearing about it. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh yeah? That's right, that's right. LINDA ROSENLUND: And that's scaring themselves to think that somebody [unintelligible - 00:28:57]. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: I know. LINDA ROSENLUND: So, why don't you tell me a little bit about growing up in Leominster? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: In Leominster? Shoot, Leominster I can't. Leominster I can't… LINDA ROSENLUND: Oh, I know, in Fitchburg, I'm sorry. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: This is the first grade. Oh, in fact, we moved from North Main before we went to Fitchburg. We moved from North Main Street here, we moved down to French Hill on 8th Street. And that's where I lived until we moved. I lived maybe five years there until we moved to Fitchburg. I'm surprised why you didn't ask me why we didn't move to Fitchburg with here from Leominster and my father's business in Leominster. Well, I had an uncle. I had an Uncle Mike who was closer to my father then my Uncle Louie, who came into business with my father. And he had a barber shop in Fitchburg. And he had a two-tenement house on the south side of Fitchburg, a nice, nice area and everything. And he wanted my father to move. He had the downstairs; he wanted [unintelligible - 00:30:18] live 15 upstairs and he wanted my father downstairs. So that's when we moved to Fitchburg. Now, my uncle never drove, and he… everywhere my father went, took his brother. They were so close. You know, a lot of brothers are close, but these two, I've never seen two brothers that close. I mean, they just lived their whole lives together. And he died of cancer on Easter Sunday. I'll never forget the barber. He was 46 years old. Yes, that's Ernie DiGeronimo's father. Yes, Doctor Ernie, you know him? LINDA ROSENLUND: And this is Michael? Michael? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: His name was Michael. LINDA ROSENLUND: Michael. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yeah. I told you, a lot of Michaels. [Laughter] But he was a great guy. My father, we had a camp down at Lake [Samosa], in the early '30s, and his family, we'd get in the car and the truck, and we'd get down the lake. He was always there. As a kid, I can always remember him being there. And we got along great until he passed away. Then my father was so shook he wanted to move back to Leominster. And that's when he bought the home on North Main Street. LINDA ROSENLUND: So tell me about Lake [Samosa]. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes, Lake [Samosa] No, I can remember my young [laughter] the days down there. My father, his business, we used to close Wednesday afternoon, 12 o'clock, we used to close. That was -- and Sunday, both the only days that market wasn't open. And naturally, in the summer months, that's where we used to spend all our time. In fact, we used to stay there, not just visit, not just go down for the day. You know, my mother used to stay there with the kids and everything. My father used to commute back and forth. 16 That's when I really [laughter], that's when I really started to work at the [laughter] in the market, in my father's market because, you know, he's going to work and I'm nine years old. And in them days, that's when the fathers wanted their sons—at least my father—wanted us to learn the business and do the things that we could do to help in his business. That's how we get started in my father's business. We used to -- you know, today everything comes in a 10-pound bag. In them days a 100-pound bag and you had to get a paper bushel bag, and we had to scoop the potatoes and then tie them up with twine. And that's how they sold potatoes in them days. And, I mean, it's the same thing is to have to bag those, and there were other things that we did. And I used to deliver my father's circulars, which today is an advertising thing like this. But it wasn't like that in them days; it was just maybe a piece of paper with the items that he was featuring. And we couldn't mail them. The mail was too expensive to mail them. And so my cousin Joe and I used to, once a week, a certain day, we used to deliver these to every home—not every home in Leominster, not the ones way out, but French Hill, the Italian section, West Side. We used to deliver these to every home, just drop them off at the door and keep going. I never [laughter], I never liked dogs because [laughter] -- that's why I've never had a dog to my children. They always said, "Dad, get me a dog." I had an experience with one and, you know, I was delivering, and he took a chunk out of me. But it wasn't serious, but it was enough to scare me from dogs. But Joe and I used to, we used to kid each other about it. We'd say, "Uh-oh, who's got to take this house?" [Laughter] God forbid if we had to do it, I mean, 17 you go back there, there's [imitates growling], you know. There we skipped a few houses [laughter]. You've got to answer to your father. LINDA ROSENLUND: Would you walk or take your bike? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, walk. LINDA ROSENLUND: Walk? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Walk. Yeah. I didn't have a bike. LINDA ROSENLUND: No? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, we -- you know, we didn't have a lot of money in them days. And I remember having bikes, but I was a little older when I got a bike. LINDA ROSENLUND: Do you have any of those old fliers? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: No. LINDA ROSENLUND: No? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: No, I don't. I may have some ads I used to put in the… oh, that's when we had the business here. I go back that far. LINDA ROSENLUND: So tell me what a day was like for you when you were about eight or nine? For example, did you go to school first, and then… ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes, oh, yes. Oh, I had to go to school, yes. LINDA ROSENLUND: So just tell me, give me an example of what a day was like in your life when you were about that age. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, I'll tell you maybe in Fitchburg, because I was six years old when we moved to Fitchburg and there was a school on South Street, Steep Hill in Fitchburg. You know where it is, because it's back and forth all the time, right? Hosmer School it was called, H-O-S-M-E-R, Hosmer School. It's a different thing now. Well, I went there for my second grade to my eighth grade. And from where I lived in Mountain Avenue, I had to walk down that hill. And you wouldn't mind it. Today I would mind if I had to 18 climb up, right? We had to walk to school. There were no buses, you know, school buses. You walked. And then when I went to Fitchburg High School, I had to walk from way up from Mountain Avenue all the way to Fitchburg High School, which was at the other, almost at the other end of town, right? But getting back to what you had asked me, yeah, I remember teachers' names. I remember… [Crotty], the principal. And she had that little whip, that little -- and she wasn't afraid to use it, you know? LINDA ROSENLUND: But I'm sure you never misbehaved. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: No, no, no. I never got hit, but I got some -- you know, a few taps and words, you know? Then there was a Miss O'Brien. She was my seventh grade teacher. I had a hard time with her, I don't know why. I don't think she liked me. You know, I'm not going to say this, because I don't want you to, I don't think she liked Italians. LINDA ROSENLUND: Oh, no? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, that's what I always thought. Because my brother would say boo, he had a mouthful, because my brother -- and I was quiet. I was really quiet, and I still am, but no one believes it. [Laughter] She had Michael, and then three years later she had me. And she gave Michael a really hard time. And Michael told me, he says, "Oh, you're going to get Miss O'Brien," and I says, "Yeah, I know it." But there are other -- Miss [Cunahan], and there was another O'Brien in the third grade. She was a peach. She was [unintelligible - 00:38:43]. I can still remember her, short, heavy-set woman, the nicest, a good teacher. I learned a lot from her. Geez, I'm surprised I remember these names. They're coming to me. LINDA ROSENLUND: It's funny how it comes back.19 ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: It's coming to me after, you know. But I enjoyed Hosmer. I played basketball as a kid at Hosmer. We played other elementary schools and things like that. And Miss Crotty, she was -- we used to have a field day at [Trocca] field, and we used to wear our… the same colors of the school. I think I was in yellow. I can't remember now. But we used to always dress with the colors, and we were proud of our Hosmer School, you know? Forget about Nolan School. You probably went to Nolan, didn't you? Sure. And, well, we were from Hosmer, and naturally, you know, everyone from there, [Wallow] Street School. We used to play basketball to all these schools, and it was nice. We'd get to meet other kids. But you always came from the best school, right? LINDA ROSENLUND: What would you do during your field day? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: I don't know. What would we do? I can't recall, but I remember going to Crocker Field with the family, and playing different games and things like that. Yes. LINDA ROSENLUND: So getting back to working, though. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, no. I've got a good story. I've got a good story. But we'll all get back to work. All right. I got to be a pretty good basketball player. My freshmen year, our team went undefeated, and we were going to the junior high. They called it junior high in them days. Now, the freshmen, the seniors, it's all high school now. So we left [unintelligible - 00:40:41], which was our junior high school. And my team was undefeated. The same guys were going into high school. Well, as I was getting older, my father kept relying on me more and more to do work. And, you know, so I never told him about the basketball. I was a little too young to have to report every day. But you know, I got to 20 be a sophomore, he kind of wanted me there mostly every day. Now, I had to come, get on a bus, come to Leominster. And I'll never forget my sophomore year, [unintelligible – 00:41:37] basketball season came, all the guys, we all went out for basketball. And I heard all the other guys I played with on the first team, they went to the varsity in their sophomore year and I was very unusual, because I wasn't going to be there. I went the first day to practice, and I didn't tell my parents. So my father thought, after school I'll have to come down to the market, and when he closes at six we go home, right? Well, I got there around five, 5:30 and, "Where you've been?" I says, "Dad," I says, "I'm going to play basketball for the high school [unintelligible- 00:42:24] Coach Oliver." Do you remember Johnny Oliver? Yeah? He lived at the corner of Mountain Avenue. And then I says, "Maybe he's putting me on the varsity because I'm a neighbor." It was my old team. It wasn't just me, you know? So anyway, "Playing basketball? But you got to work." Well, I never played another game. And you know, today it's so much different. You push your children to play sports and things like that, but my father was a lovely man, but he was very, very strict. I suppose he had to be at the business he had to run, and he relied on me. And you know, to him, that was all right, because I probably I wouldn't have had this if I tried to do something else in life. You know? So I always praise my father. I say, "Dad, thank god you disciplined me enough…" it broke my heart, you know? I'm only -- how old am I, 15 years old, you know? Fourteen, 15, and not to be able to play, which, I loved the sport anyway. LINDA ROSENLUND: Were you different with your own children? 21 ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, totally. [Laughter] Yes. And they all… most of them -- Jay, my oldest boy, David was the captain of the basketball team. Steven was captain of the basketball team his year and his year. So they were real -- they must've got a little few genes from me. Michael didn't go out for sports, and Jay didn't go out for sports. David played in the band. Oh, he enjoyed that too. He has a group now, they don't call them the… it will come. But they play locally. They're a band, they're a rock band. They play loud, loud music. I've gone a couple of times, but it's not my music. LINDA ROSENLUND: So he's not played for the Leominster band then? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: No. He played for the Leominster High School when he was in high school. Yeah. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. So tell me about the neighborhood that you lived in. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Here, I can't remember it all, because I don't think I was two years old when we moved down to French Hill on 8th Street. I remember down at 8th Street, though, the… no, I was on 7th Street. I'm sorry. 8th street was bound. The next street over, and I'm thinking the Lombardis. The Lombardis and Finney, they lived on 8th Street, and our backyards were together. And the Lombardis they were good friends of ours many years, and we're still very, very friendly with them. And they had a mother who did all the gardens and did all the cooking, and her husband passed away. And she brought up all their family. And I don't know how she did it, but she was an amazing woman. And she was very friendly with my mother, Clementine Lombardi. Her and my mother were like sisters, you know. And she used to make the bread, and you could smell it, but you know, we could smell it, and in the summer months especially, you know. But that's the young years that I can 22 remember, you know, playing with your sleds and things like that you do when you're kid, and hanging out the summertime in the yard with the Lombardi family and all the neighborhood. I had some good neighbors. I had some friends. But you know, to be that young and remember, you still have good memories of those things. Playing in the garden -- she never, Clementine never complained. Everything that she had was ours too, and she treated us like her own. She really did, she was a wonderful lady. She lived to be close to 100, yeah, Clementine. Lovely lady. And always visiting my mother. I'd drive her down, or Paul would take her down to my mother's, and my mother would get down there. So they were very, very close. She lived much longer than my mother, passed away at 79. Clementine lived to the almost a 100. Ninety-eight, I think. Wonderful, wonderful, hardworking lady. Boy, she worked. Of course, my mother didn't work, because my mother had to look kids. We had five. But those were nice days. LINDA ROSENLUND: You had five? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: I got six. My mother. Yeah. I had two brothers and two sisters. LINDA ROSENLUND: Okay. When I read some information about you, just from the Fitchburg Historical Society, they only listed your brothers for some reason. I don't know why. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: My brothers? LINDA ROSENLUND: Well, your brother. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Are you sure it wasn't my son? LINDA ROSENLUND: Arthur and Michael. There was no mention of sisters. So I didn't even know that you had any. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, really? 23 LINDA ROSENLUND: It was just an article, so maybe they were concentrating on the business, so they didn't… ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, all right. I'm going to give you this. You're going to read it and if you can pick anything from it that you'd like, that's fine with me. You don't have to mention the business. I don't -- you know, if that's not part of it, that's fine. LINDA ROSENLUND: Oh, it may be part of it, but it's just that we're trying to center on the history. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yeah. LINDA ROSENLUND: Fitchburg and Leominster and the Italians coming in. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Sure. LINDA ROSENLUND: So how was life different for your sisters then, growing up in your family? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, I don't know… other than being close to the brothers and brother and sister relationship, we got to live in -- well, we had a five-bedroom when we were up in Fitchburg, and my sister had… I remember my brother and I had a double bed, and Rita was the third one, and she had a single bed in the same room and everything. I mean, you never hear of that today. They want their own room, you know? It's a little different. And there was a closeness, because at night we talked and, you know, fight and whatever, you know? Not physically, but, you know, verbally. But you get very close to the family that way, you really do. Because my brother Michael was killed in the services two years older than I was, yet he treated -- I mean, he was with his friends. You know, three years, growing up, is a big difference. But he never treated me like too young to hang around with. My brother was very good to me. And I was good to him. Well, he was good to me. Let's put it that way. I 24 might have been a pain sometimes [laughter], you know? Little brothers are. LINDA ROSENLUND: So your sisters, though, were they expected to work at the supermarket? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: No. They had to take care of the home. That's what my mother had to do, bringing them up. And the girls had the different life. You know, in them days I don't think there were many high school women or girls who worked at the store, really. Maybe it's because I never saw my daughter or my sisters work, you know? But no, my father never called on the girls to come and do work in the store. And you know what? In my business, we never pushed ahead my daughters. I never pushed them. My daughters can do the business. Of course, my brother Jimmy, he's got the three boys, and Joe's got the two girls, but they never came into the -- Joe's, they never came into the business either. Just I don't know why but he just didn't push it. Not that they wouldn't come in. Like Jane, my daughter Jane, I mean, coming into the business, sure, they went to work as a cashier in the store, but they didn't come down to do the things that my sons do versus what my daughters. Like Lisa, when they got 16, they worked at my market. Not full-time, part-time, like a high school girl work. You know, cashier or stuff like that. Yeah, they did, but they didn't come into the business as such. LINDA ROSENLUND: Was education important to your family when you were growing up? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, yeah. Yeah. They all went to -- you mean, you don't mean my family? You mean my… LINDA ROSENLUND: Your parents. Was it important to your parents?25 ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, yes. Yes. Well, we were in the service, and we all went to college. I went to Becker's College, and I got an associate's degree in business. And then I was going to further my education and go for my bachelor's degree, but my father lost his stepbrother, who worked quite a bit for him. His stepbrother, yeah. And he went into business for himself, and he left when I was just starting another year of business school. And I guess I was the one who only went for two years. My cousins went for four years, so they couldn't come into the business. So I was the first one into my father's business full-time after my education at Becker College. I came in. My father needed help very bad, and so I says, "Dad, this is going to be my living." And I stopped going, and I came into the business. I had to help him out. Because, you know, my father and uncle, they couldn't do a lot of things that my step-uncle could do. He took all the [wasted] delivery; he took all of the orders. He could write clearer than my father and my uncle. And when he left, it left a big void in my father's business, and that's when I went in, in 1950. 1950 I went into my father's business. And in '55 we opened up, this was our first supermarket. Yeah, five years later. Yes. And I had… my two cousins who came into the business after finished college, so they came in. My brother Jimmy, who had the four years left to go, he didn't come in until four years later. It will be a lot in there if you read, you can get some stuff out of. LINDA ROSENLUND: It sounds as if you never thought of doing anything else, about working? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: No, that's when I made the decision that that's what I wanted to do. And not only to help my father, naturally, 26 but to, you know -- because I got married in 1951, so I had to make up my mind to go full-time to work, you know? And that's what I knew most of over the years growing up and [unintelligible - 00:55:16] in the service. I spent two years in the service. Went overseas, 18 years old. LINDA ROSENLUND: After graduating from high school? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yeah. Yeah, 1944. LINDA ROSENLUND: Tell me a little bit about that. I know it must be painful for you to talk about it. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, I took my basic training, and then, the Battle of the Bulge, I was just through my basic training. I was going overseas, and we got word that my brother was killed. And I went overseas as an infantry replacement, because so many Americans got killed at that time that they were calling. They shortened my basic training, and I'm on the ship going overseas, and I joined my officer right after the Bulge in Bastogne, Germany as just the rifleman, an 18-year-old. I didn't know what it was about and all, but I got through it. I don't know how, but we did. LINDA ROSENLUND: So you got active duty then? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes. Yes. I was -- once a bullet goes over your head, you get a combat badge. And I'm very proud of it. I still have it on top of my bureau. It's a blue picture of a rifle, and the only time you could get it is if you were… LINDA ROSENLUND: I've been watching that special HBO, have you seen that? It's called Band of Brothers. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: I watched part of it. I didn't watch too much of it. I went to see a Ryan, what's that? LINDA ROSENLUND: Private Ryan. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Private Ryan. It stayed with me a little. Usually stuff like that doesn't, you know? I went two years ago, when it first 27 came out, and my wife says, "Do you really want to go see that?" And I says, "Yeah." But you know, we were [unintelligible – 00:57:31] at the time, let me tell you. And my daughter Lisa was down for a week. She was [unintelligible - 00:57:34]. And she was down with her husband and we went to the theater, and we went to see the Ryan movie, right? Private Ryan. And my daughter and my wife went to see some other movie in the same building. I can't say I enjoyed it, you know. It was so real, it really was. But I get over it. I mean, you know, but that's why I haven't looked, but they tell me it's a great series. LINDA ROSENLUND: So last Sunday, the segment was called "The Replacement," so -- and you just told me… ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Wow, really? LINDA ROSENLUND: Yeah. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yeah, that's how it went over. You know, it would have been nice if I could have gone over with [unintelligible - 00:58:37] same guys and everything when you go for replacement. LINDA ROSENLUND: I never even thought of it before. But then watching it, just to see how hard that was. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yeah. LINDA ROSENLUND: You weren't even sure who was on your team and who wasn't. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, yes. Yes. Well, I lived in the [unintelligible - 00:58:57] and I don't brag about that. I was in the foxhole for two weeks. It was just [unintelligible – 00:59:01] and chocolates and… just keep your head down, they said. Keep your head down; the artillery will take care of everything.28 LINDA ROSENLUND: So you actually stay in that foxhole? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, yes. Yeah. It's like a dream, "Did it really happen?" You know, "Did this really happen?" And we lost half a battalion. We went to a town in Germany, and we were dug in, and we were supposed to take the town over but we heard there was some SS troops, German troops—those were the tough ones, the SS. And the air force didn't want to bomb before we went in. They didn't think there was that much in there, but we had heard there were, you know? So the air force didn't want to bomb, so they made us go in, and we lost a lot of our guys. They could've bombed that town, but maybe they didn't want to hit the civilians. You know how we are in America. LINDA ROSENLUND: They showed something like that last week. There was, you know, the infantry comes in and they kind of case the area, and they saw a German tank. But the tank was hidden by a brick building. So one of the infantry soldiers ran up to a British tank and told the guy, "There's a tank right there around the building." And he said, "I was told not to damage any buildings." ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, boy. LINDA ROSENLUND: So he was forced… ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, I've got to watch that. That's quite different from Private Ryan, isn't it? LINDA ROSENLUND: And what's nice about it, it's just one hour. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes. That's enough. LINDA ROSENLUND: A little bit too much. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes. LINDA ROSENLUND: So tell me about being Italian. What does that mean to you? 29 ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: I don't know. Being Italian. You know, we're all Americans, but I don't know, there's just something, I have such respect for the Italians that… like they can do no wrong. But I know there's bad in every nationality. But I'm very proud of being Italian. I'm an American, but very proud of the heritage. I don't know, I'm proud of it because I'm proud of my father's heritage. But you know, I think now, what about my children? I mean, they have to be proud that I'm an American. And I was proud my father was an American also, you know? Though it isn't that -- I was so young when we came from Italy that he really was an American. You know? I mean, he didn't go to the only one -- he finished the eighth grade, and that was it, then he had to go to work. So in them days, that's the way it was. But I don't know if I answered your question, but yes, I'm very proud. LINDA ROSENLUND: You said that you're proud of the heritage. What does that mean, that you're proud of the [unintelligible – 01:02:22]? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: What the Italians brought to this country, you know? I got books, the magazines that I read on some of the famous Italians, who -- you know, I like to read about them. Anything to do with Italian, I'll -- you know, I'll spend time doing a lot of reading. But normally I'm not a big reader. I couldn't sit, takes me a -- even on a cruise, to do one book? Forget it. I can't even do a book on a cruise, you know what I mean? I'm not really a reader. I'm a short reader. LINDA ROSENLUND: So did you ever feel differently then maybe some of your friends that weren't Italian while you were growing up? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Not a bit. Not one single bit. I had a friend here that lived on the North Main Street here. His name was Bill [Chase]; 30 he was one of the closest friends of mine. He didn't have to be Italian, no. But, you know, I've had a lot of Italian friends also. But no, it never bothered me no matter what nationality they were. I was friends with some Jewish boys, nice boys. It never -- you know, sure, I'm proud of being Italian. I can kid someone say… you know, I can dig the Irish or something like that, but… or the French, nothing like… a lot of the times when I'm in their company, I'll say, "Too bad you're not Italian," you know, "we're the best." Kiddingly, you know, different thing. But never really mean it. I had some close Irish friends, very close Irish friends too. I tell them jokes about the Irish, something like that, and they tell me about being Italian. But no, there never -- all these years in business when the salesmen came in, if he was Italian, it didn't make a bit of difference or whatever nationality he was. If they had the goods and I wanted to buy, I bought it. I don't care. I did business with Jewish companies, wholesale companies. And you know what I can say? Maybe I shouldn't say it [laughter]. The Jewish people are good business people. They respect getting business from you and really, they are… it's amazing. It's amazing how you, in America, at least, a lot of people -- doesn't make any difference. We're Americans. That's the way I look at it. Yet I love the Italians. So, you know? LINDA ROSENLUND: Are there any customs or traditions that you tried to carry over in your own family? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Like pasta on Sunday? Definitely. My wife, every Sunday, she's got to make the sauce and -- all from scratch. The meatballs, the sausage, the pork. You put some pork in there too. All my kids and… no one can make meatballs 31 like my wife. And my wife has taught my daughter-in-laws exact, and they do the exact thing, and what do you think the kids will say? "How come it doesn't taste like granny's?" It's wonderful to have a reputation like that, isn't it? [Laughter] And I play bocce. For years I played bocce. And I love the sport. And you know what? There are -- now that I'm in two leagues [unintelligible – 01:06:28] and Italian center league, and there is many non-Italians that can play bocce as good as Italians. And you say, "Gee, how come?" You know? It's in our blood, but I guess all through the years that we played with some French and Irish and you know what nationality, they're as good as any Italian playing bocce. They know why. You know, you think that would be -- see, there's where the Americanism comes in. If you want to play, you can be Irish, you can play. And you get to be as good as anybody if you play at it. Golfers, look at the golfers today. You know, there aren't many Italian golfers. I don't know, you know? But anyway… LINDA ROSENLUND: I was thinking of the hockey players, how they all used to be Canadian. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: French. You know, but if you get away from that… I'm not a hockey enthusiast, but there are a lot, there aren't that many black hockey players. And I wonder why. They're fast. But in basketball, it's all you see now in basketball, you know? But football you see a lot of Italians in football. Why I don't know, but you do, but not in basketball. Not in basketball. You got to be fast, you got to be tall and fast. And I always kid my two boys who played basketball, I say to them, "David and Steven, oh, you guys only had the speed that some of the blacks have." There's something 32 about the blacks. They've got those flight feet, you know? But I don't mind them either. I like to watch basketball, and they're a big percentage of them. If it bothered me, I wouldn't get so interested in it. But I do. LINDA ROSENLUND: What kind of celebrations did you have for, let's say, Christmas? Have you followed tradition? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Oh, yes. Yeah. Night before Christmas, we have our seven fishes. We don't have any sauce that night. That comes the next day, with the ravioli. Now and today, we look forward, my kids look forward to the Christmas Eve dinner versus Christmas Day dinner. I don't know why, but you know? Christmas Day, you might have turkey, roast beef, and you have your ravioli. But that night you don't have any of that. It's all fish. It's all fish. The kids, the calamari, the pasta, the sauce, the -- what do they call it -- the [aglio e olio], right? Pour that white sauce over the pasta, as good as the red one [laughter]. But that's the tradition. And we exchange our gifts that night. Because if the kids, when the kids were young, the boys wanted to be Christmas morning with their kids, with their own kids, where they can open up their gifts and then they can put together the toys that they got. And then at night they come over to our house after they've had the day with themselves. But they will stay the night before until 11 or 12 o'clock. But then we give all the gifts out, you know? LINDA ROSENLUND: Do you feel like your generation rejected any values from the first generation? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: No, I can't think… the only thing I would say was… my father being that strict and no sports was on his game. I mean, his business is bringing up the same [unintelligible - 01:11:16] working hard. But you know, I never… I don't 33 know if I could ever tell my son, "I need you in the business. You can't play basketball." You know, especially if they're good at it. You know what I mean? But you know, you don't have to be that good now today. As long as they play the game, as long as they play the sport, it's the only thing I can really… I didn't reject it. Disappointed, yes. But I learned a lesson from it. When I got married, I said, "I'm not going to let it happen to my kids. If they want to play." It was a different situation. My father couldn't afford to pay people to do work in the store, you know? And today we have a business that we don't have to rely on -- I don't have to have my Sean, who just started college, I don't have to have him work in the business. He did. He worked in high school. David had him working in high school, but it isn't that he had to, you know what I mean? But it's good for him. It's good for all. I've got my little Katie, who turned 16, she's at St. Bernard's, and she works in the store. That's wonderful. But they don't take away from soccer or sports or Sean's baseball for the high school. He was their catcher for three years. And my son David never stopped; he never said no, he had to get to work at the Victory. And it's just a different world. It's different. It's a better world. I think it's a better world when you can have your kids, you know, spoil them rotten. [Laughter] What the heck. And, you know, the parents enjoy it as much as the kids do, playing ball. You can't miss a game. When Sean was playing over the [unintelligible - 01:13:29] field, what do you think I wouldn't do? I'd leave the office and go to watch the game. I didn't want to miss it. We missed that, yeah. In the years I was building the business, you know, if I 34 couldn't drive the kids to the play—and they all played little league and basketball and soccer—my wife used to drive them there if I get home from work late from the store, but, you know, throughout the years of this business. But truth is it's nice they can do these things today that we weren't able to, that my father wasn't able to do. And I'm sure if he lived in this generation, I know he'd be the same way. He wouldn't… how can you say it? I don't know. I'm trying to think of a word, it won't come out, but that's all right. LINDA ROSENLUND: Would you have been understanding if your sons didn't want to join you in the market business? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, there's another -- where do you get all these questions from? [Laughter] They are good. I'll never forget. I'll tell them when they get out of college -- my first boy, Jay, went to college, he went to Georgetown, three more years, became a lawyer. I wanted to set him up in an office in Leominster. I says, "We've got a good name in Leominster, you've got a good start." I says—and this is the way I put it—"Do you want cocktails for lunch, Saturdays and Sundays off? Or do you want to come to another business and work night and day, Saturdays, Sundays and nights." He said, "Dad, I want the business." And he helped build the business to what it is today. It's 20 years now. He's been the president of our company, and if it wasn't for him I probably would have sold out a few years back, you know? And my other boys they did the same thing. They finished their college, they all went to four years college, and I says to David, my next boy, "You want to come into the business?" "Yep, I'm ready." And I says, "You don't have to. If you can find something else 35 that you like, go ahead and try it. And then you can come back into the business. I never, never, never said: "No, you're coming to the business," not one of them. And they know that. You can ask them. I always said to them, "God forbid if the business didn't go, I don't want you to say that I forced you into the business." I want a clear mind on that, right? And my other two, I did the same thing to them. They all wanted to come into the business. It's very unusual, you know? Of course, you have family too? That's wonderful, yes. LINDA ROSENLUND: But they all got the hard work ethic? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes. They're all good workers too. They're not -- you know, they like this sport and stuff like that, and they have to take their children here and there, fine. But they do their job. They all do their job, which is very nice, you know? I'm very proud of them. I'm proud of my wife for bringing them up too, when I was still in business. You know, this guy's got me. I've got to share. If they didn't come over for two days, I've got to go up his house. LINDA ROSENLUND: Now, that's your grandson? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes. LINDA ROSENLUND: What's his name? He's your youngest grandson. ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Jack. LINDA ROSENLUND: Jack? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Yes, Jack. And I don't mean to single him out, don't worry. I had a lot of fun with all my others too. But this time I'm a little older and I've got a little more time, you know. If I go home for lunch, which I did today, she wasn't there today, I was disappointed. I thought she'd be there. [Laughter] She was [unintelligible - 01:17:41] devil, spoiled rotten and everything else. You should see 36 when he comes into this office, my. He's got to sit, I let him sit here. And then when we have to leave, right? He won't go. I've got to pick him up, pick him up to the car. He thinks I'm going with him and I don't, he's screaming out there. [Laughter] LINDA ROSENLUND: So how do you foresee your grandchildren's life different, as it will be different from yours? ARTHUR DIGERONIMO: Well, gee… you know, bringing up that question now, it's… when I've seen this happen, when this broke out, I didn't think of me, I thought of my kids and my grandchildren. What kind of a life is it going to be for them? You know, we were lucky. We were lucky, right, Ann? We had all this freedom for so many years, and now it's gone, but we can't act that way. We have to go forward as if everything's going to be all right. But you know, who knows what's going to happen? And I think that my four grandchildren, my kids too, because they're all in there. My daughters in their 30s, and my boys in their 40s, you know, they're still young, too, [unintelligible - 01:19:06] world, you know? Sorry, Jay. Jay, come on! Say hello to Anne and Linda. This is the guy I've been talking about. We're doing a little Italian culture. Maybe you can help me in a few questions. [Laughter] No, not the business. Why didn't grandpa, why didn't your great-grandfather come over to this? I know he took dad. He took your grandfather, and uncle… why did he come to Leominster, Fitchburg?/AT/lj/es