Dubois, Francis [Transcript]

Abstract

Transcript of interview with Francis Dubois about his experience in the U.S. Army Air Service (later the United States Army Air Corps) during World War I. He discusses his experiences during basic training, the war, being shipped to England and Ireland, and problems after the war with re-assimilation. He also discusses his opinions on subsequent wars and treatment of veterans. ; WWI Transcriptions Francis Dubois Transcriber: John Pino Date Started: 2/28/18 (Interview Begins) Fred Holder (Interviewer): This interview is taking place in the home of Mr. Francis Dubois, and I was wondering how old were you when you entered the service? Francis Dubois (Interviewee): 21 years old. Holder: And did you live in Fitchburg? Dubois: In Fitchburg, I lived on 48 Main St. at the time. Holder: What branch of service did you enter? The Army? Dubois: I was in the signal corps, forerunner of the air corps. I was in the aviation section of the signal corps. Holder: You live in Fitchburg all your life? Dubois: Born and brought up here. Holder: Were you drafted or did you volunteer? Dubois: I volunteered. Holder: When you entered the service, what did you think, you know, did it turn out to be what you expected? Dubois: Well I didn't know what to expect so I wasn't disappointed or disillusioned either. Either way, I just accepted it as it came. Holder: What was your family's attitude what was your parents' feelings about you going off to the war? Dubois: To be frank with you I don't know what their attitude might have been, I did not consult with them. I merely enlisted and that was it. Holder: Where'd you do your basic training? Dubois: Basic training was down in Waco, Texas, 3 months down there. Holder: What kind of- what did it consist of mostly? Dubois: Well drilling, that was entirely drilling. In the mud fields down there. Holder: What'd you do before the war? Dubois: I was in business at 748 Main St. as a photographer. Holder: And when you came back did you go back into photography? Dubois: I went back into photography. Holder: When you were um, when you went into the service, you went in as a private obviously, what was the pay like then? (Dubois and a person in the background start laughing) Dubois: Well I was fortunate, I got in when the pay was raised from 15 to 30$ for private. Holder: Is that a month? Dubois: That's a month, and there was a 10% increase if you served overseas. Holder: Did you serve overseas? Dubois: I did. Holder: Where sir? Dubois: From April to December, I went to England and Ireland. I did not get to France. Holder: When you went overseas, did you go over in the big transports? Dubois: I went over in an English ship, the Armadale Cassilan. It was a converted cruiser. Holder: When you um, when you were in England, what was the feelings of the people towards you? Dubois: When we got there it was very poor. They complained that we came over there after the war had been lost (intense depression and nihilism felt in England?). Holder: When was that? Dubois: In April (1917?). Holder: As you were there, over time did peoples' impressions improve? Dubois: What I told these people is "just wait a few months and see!" (Laughter) Dubois: "And by August things will turn and change." Holder: What rank were you by the time you were overseas, were you still a private? Dubois: No I was a corporal, that was as high as I got. Holder: That's as high as you got. How long were you in the service? Dubois: A year and 3 days. Holder: What type of food did you have when you were overseas? Dubois: In England well… not too hot, not too good. Our best meal over there was New Zealand rabbits. (Laughter) Dubois: And this may sound corny to you but uh, we would scrape the maggots off of them before we ate them. Holder: (Disgusted groan) (Man laughing in background) Dubois: Well, before we cooked them and ate them let me put it that way. In their raw state we scraped them first. Holder (somewhat bewildered by the previous conversation): Umm… The equipment that you were supplied with was it good? Dubois: Uhh, the "equipment?" What do you mean the "equipment?" Holder: Umm, well, like during your basic training were the rifles more or less new or were they old or the uniforms? Things of this nature. Dubois: The uniforms were alright, they were woolen uniforms. But as far as equipment or rifles and armaments go, I had a gun strapped to my waist for 48 hours. Two 24 hour stretches and I handled a rifle for about 30 seconds. Never drilled with a rifle. Holder: Now umm, your officers, how did they treat you? Dubois: Hm? Holder: The officers, how did they treat you sir? Dubois: We had American officers, they were alright. Holder: How did you feel towards them? Dubois: They were there and they used me alright so I can't complain. (Chuckles in background) Holder (chortling): You were one of the lucky ones I guess. Before you went overseas and you didn't enlist in the war what did you think you were going to fight for? Dubois: Well to put down the Kaiser (Kaiser Wilhelm II, emperor of Imperial Germany). And that was about it. To put an end to his uhh, well his aggressiveness. Holder: What was your view, well, how did you feel towards the German people? Was there animosity built up or? Dubois: Well, I can't say that I held any animosity toward them. Any more than I suppose they held for the American people. Holder: Now how about um… you said you didn't make it to France, did you meet any French officers maybe in England or any in Ireland? Dubois: No, I didn't meet any of em', but I was informed that had it lasted two weeks longer; I would have been in France. Holder: Um, when you came back- Dubois: I went to Ireland before I came back I went to Ireland from England. Holder: Did you like the Irish people better than the English? Dubois: Oh it was great over there! We could do anything and get away with anything! (Laughter) Dubois: The food was great over there! Good meat and everything else! Holder: What'd you do in Ireland? Dubois: I was training there also, continued training they tried to make and airplane mechanic out of me. But I am not mechanically inclined, but they said "You're a mechanic," so I was a mechanic! Of sorts… (Laughter) Holder: Were you married during this time? Dubois: No I was single. I wasn't married until 2 years after I got back. Holder: Did you know the missus before you married here? Dubois: This is the missus (gestures over to his wife, who starts chuckling), she was a lady friend at that time. Holder: What was her feelings towards you being overseas? Dubois: I dunno, she never told me! (Dubois and his wife laugh) She could answer that for herself! Holder: Um, when you came back, what was the attitude of people upon your return? Were you a conquering hero or were they just happy to see you back or? Dubois: We received a nice welcome in New York harbor. They had all the fireboats squirtin' water up, I dunno how high but uh, a great welcome back. The only thing is that when you try to get back to where you were when you left. Assume the role that you have been in when you left, it was not so nice. You were a great guy when you went, but you were one of those fellas when you come back. Try to assume your place. Holder: Did you have trouble getting back to your photographer's job when you got back or things of this nature? Dubois: Uhh, slightly. Slightly. Holder: How about when you came back uhh, to Fitchburg and tried to set up your photography and- Dubois: Well that's what I'm talking about. Holder: Did the veterans' office help you at all? Dubois: The veterans were alright towards me but the uhh, competition I had left behind, they weren't so nice. They expected me to stay over there. Holder: So um, when you did come back though, the veterans' office at that time did they help you out in perhaps- Dubois: Well in WWI, the veterans didn't get much help from the government (important point) or anything else. Holder: You didn't receive your bonuses, how did you feel about that? Dubois: I uhh, I received a bonus… uhh. I forget how many years it was after I was discharged. But I did get a bonus. Holder: At the time you were supposed to get it, I dunno, very soon afterwards. How did you feel when you didn't get them, like a number of veterans didn't when they marched on Washington? (reference to the Bonus Army, when 4,000 disgruntled WWI veterans marched on Washington in 1932 to get their promised bonus in the immediate aftermath of the war) Dubois: We didn't anticipate we were gonna get em' so we weren't disappointed. Holder: So you weren't very surprised when you didn't get it after all. Dubois: No. Holder: What other benefits did you receive from the service? Dubois: What benefits? Holder: Yeah. Dubois: Well I dunno I think it toughened my body a little bit. It taught me a lot of things, I met a lot of different people. And I think that uhh, that's about what I got out of it. Holder: Now what kind of benefits did you get from say umm, in a monetary way from the government after you got out? Dubois: Oh I didn't… (Dubois thinks for a moment) I think we were given on discharge a ticket home and $60. Now I won't swear to the $60, I'm not too sure about it now. But afterwards I did get $950 when they paid the bonus. Holder: Um, in World War II did you see any service there sir? Dubois: World War II I was on the draft board in Fitchburg. Holder (sarcastically): Ehh that must have been a fun job. (Dubois wife laughs) Dubois: It was a good job. Holder: Was that more difficult than actually going over? Dubois: Much more, much more abuse too. And, it was an expense to anybody that was on the draft board. You paid for your own expenses, your own transportation. They gave you about a gallon of gas a month which you had to pay for, to get to and from the meetings. And that's about it. Holder: Now your chapter of the local legion, when did you join that organization? Dubois: I joined the American legion in 1919. And in 1948 I started the Cloygon(?) post 429. As first commander, I have been in office for quite a few years. I've been on the executive board, I've been the finance officer. Then I've pulled out for a while and now I'm back in again. Holder: What's the role of your organization now? Dubois: Well they try to uhh, induce patriotism. Watch out for the benefits of the veterans, their wives and children, the widows. It's a service organization. (Holder adjusts the microphone) Holder: Um, when you look back on the war, when you went over and everything, did you think it did you a lot of good going overseas like that? Dubois: Going overseas? Holder: Right. Dubois: Well it broadened my perspective of the world and its people. Cause' I met people on their own standing ground so to speak. I met the English in England, I was at camp Naughtyash. And I was at Sheffield airdromes. Holder: Would you ever go overseas again? Dubois: No. Holder: No? Huh. Did you ever meet any of those people overseas, did they come over to the United States? Dubois: There was one couple I met over there and they came to Boston. And I met them in Boston. And they came to Fitchburg once, that's the extent of it. Holder: Now um, when you look back on World War I, and you look back at World War II do you think that World War I really accomplished what you set out to do? Dubois: It's very evident we did not, World War I was supposed to be "the war to end all wars" (very popular phrase at the time of the war, coined by H.G. Wells), and I don't have to tell you any more of what's happened since. Holder: Now does it leave you disillusioned or disheartened or anything of that nature? Dubois: Oh no, that's life, that's the world. We're not all of the same mind so where's there a difference of opinion… sometimes it gets a little. well. a little "belligerent" if you wish. Holder: Umm, when you look back again at World War I, what experience sticks out most in your mind? Dubois: Nothing in particular now, not at this time. It's all in the dim past now all the edges have worn off, there's nothing that stands out now. Holder: When you came back to Fitchburg ya know, the general people, not the competition you said you were having trouble with, the average people, where they very helpful to you? Dubois: They were all nice to me. Except the competition. Holder: Right. Dubois: I can't complain about them. Holder: You're retired now I assume? Dubois: Yes. Holder: Umm, you've lived in Fitchburg all your life, you ever thought you'd like to, go over again? Dubois: Well I have had that thought but uhh, I dunno I like to stay at home now. My traveling days I feel are all behind me. The desire to travel has left me. Holder: Now, again, you know, when you look back at World War I and it was the "war to end all wars" and it failed and then World War II, um, when you look at World War I compared to World War II, does anything stick out in your mind there? Anything at all that you were thinking of? Dubois: Well one thing that does uhh, is the comparison of the treatment of the boys, what they get and what we got. When we got out, you're on your own and that's about it. When the World War II come along, they get all kinds of compensation, they get the education. They want to buy a house, they're helped to do that. Those are the things, the contrast that stands out in my mind. And as yet, the World War I veteran has not got a bonafide pension! You get a disability pension but not a right pension, they never gave it! And 20 years after the Spanish-American War, the Spanish-American War veterans got a pension (interesting, why no pensions for WWI vets? Can't be an issue of time period as pensions existed even before the Great War). An outright pension! World War I are the ones that the government forgot. Holder: Is that- now, Woodrow Wilson was president then and do you hold it against the Democrats that you never got a pension? Dubois: Well I can't say that the Democrats or the Republicans if one is as bad as the other. When it comes to giving it to the veterans, one is as bad as the other. Although I think the Democrats have been a little more liberal. But they've put the lid on too. Holder: Do you think that the American Legion should campaign more actively to get their- Dubois: It's pretty hard I think for them to campaign more actively than they are doing. Holder: What type of things are they doing to try and get it for em'? Dubois: Well they have a lobby in Washington and then there's a lot of literature that's spread around. A lot of the articles you read in the newspaper originate with the American Legion. And also with other veterans' organizations. We're not alone in this. Holder: Now, what do you think about other organizations? Why did you join the American Legion instead of one of the other ones? Dubois: It was the first one that I was able to join when I got out of the service. I did not join the veterans of foreign wars for, well… particular reasons that I didn't like at the time when it was available. But I have since joined the DAV, and I am a member of the Veterans of World War I. I belong to 3 organizations. Holder: Now, are you active in all 3? Dubois: No. Holder: Just the American Legion? Dubois: Just the Legion. Holder: The American Legion is famous for sponsoring things like baseball and baseball teams and what not and things like Flag Day and things of this nature, what other types of things do they do? Dubois: Well there are a lot of things that are not shown on the surface. We sponsor a lot of things, we've got 3 Eagle Scouts coming up, that we sponsor. We pay for their badges and so forth. A school needs a flag, we give it to them. Any new troop that starts, they come to the Legion for a flag or whatever they need. There's donations made to all these… call em' charities if you wish, the Christmas Seals, Easter Seals, you name em' all those things. We contribute to them and we sponsor different things. We have the Sally League coming up in Fitchburg. Where the Cloygon post is going to sponsor the entire league! Not just a part of it. We have sponsored the uhh, Little League at times. But we've discontinued that. We did have a team in the Legion baseball, but due to lack of interest by the players we've discontinued that. Holder: When you were overseas, did any of your friends get sent over into France and actually get wounded? Dubois: Yes, some of them got killed. Holder: Besides the obvious pain and loss, what was your reaction to that? Did it give you any doubts of why you should be there? Dubois: I never gave it any thought. Holder: You never gave it any thought? Dubois: No, I never gave a thought about it. Holder: Were any friends of yours or anybody you happened to know highly decorated? Dubois: Yes, there is one, here in Fitchburg. A fella by the name of Bouchet. He'd been highly decorated. Holder: Now you were not with him when he got the decorations obviously? Dubois: No I was not with him at all in the service. Holder: What was your reaction when you see him compared to you, when he got into the action, did you want to get into the action? Dubois: Its uhh, it's one of the things that you hanker for a little bit when you're in the service. You feel that you're being left out of the show. But, that's the way it was. I never wanted to be in the infantry, that's for sure. And this fella was in the infantry. I was in the aviation part, I had hoped to be an aerial photographer. But, that's the army you know, they put you where they feel like it. So many names down the list and you're that, regardless of what you were doing before, unless you had a lot of political influence, you just went where they sent you. Holder: Now what about when you were being transported overseas on the British ship there, were you worried about the U-boats? Dubois: You always looked out for them but during the last 2 days they were right with us. 2 days out from England, there were 2 U-boats in the pack of transport ships of 13 boats, and we were in the center, and there was a U-boat on each side. On each side of the boat, now at that particular time I had been on watch all night, so I was sleeping down at the bottom of the boat, until they started to throw out depth charges. Then I got up in a hurry like everybody else. We got up on deck hoping to see some action but all we saw was when they throw over the depth charges.