Caligaris, Phyllis Lanza Transcription

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Abstract

Interview with Phyllis Lanza Caligaris. Topics include: Family history. Immigration of her grandfather, Emmanuel Montagna, and grandmother, Francesca Marrama, to the United States from Italy. Work history of her grandfather and how he would create a business, build it up, and sell it. Eventually, he opened Monty's Garden Restaurant in Leominster, MA. Her grandparents rented rooms to Italian immigrants in Leominster. What Monty's was like when it first opened, the people who worked there, the menu, the patrons, the hours. How the business changed over the years as it was passed on from Phyllis' grandfather, to her father, to her husband. Memories of her grandfather. What it means to be Italian. What it is like to be in business with family. ; 1 SPEAKER 1: It's Friday, December 7th. It's 10:20. We're at Monty's Restaurant, Central Street in Leominster. We're interviewing Phyllis Lanza Caligaris, and thank you, first of all, Phyllis. And I'm not sure; did I say your last name correctly? PHYLLIS: Correctly. SPEAKER 1: Okay. All right, and it's my understanding that your grandfather started Monty's. PHYLLIS: Yes. SPEAKER 1: So can you tell me a little bit about him personally? Not just the restaurant business, but… PHYLLIS: Okay. SPEAKER 1: What you remember about him? PHYLLIS: I can't determine what year he immigrated to the United States. There's no records in the Ellis Island files, so I assume he sailed into Boston. As with the rest of his siblings, I cannot find any info. But I know he was born 1879 and died 1960, and he came to America from a town called LaRocca. SPEAKER 1: Can you spell that? PHYLLIS: L-a capital R-O-C-C-A in the province of Abruzzi, A-B-R-U-Z-Z-I. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: I have no idea what year. SPEAKER 1: Now, what is his name? PHYLLIS: Emmanuel Montagna. SPEAKER 1: Okay. And when he came, you think, to Boston, was it alone? Or was he traveling with other people, do you know? PHYLLIS: I have no idea, I have no idea. SPEAKER 1: Did he ever mention why he left? PHYLLIS: Well, I imagine like all other immigrants, for a better life here in the United States. In Italy, there were no jobs, no future. As well as my father immigrated to the United States as a young boy at the age of 12. But this person, my grandfather, when he immigrated -- I don't know too 2 much about his early childhood, only from when he married my grandmother, and then his education and his endeavors from that point on. And if you'd like me to… SPEAKER 1: Tell me what your grandmother. Who did he marry? PHYLLIS: He married Francesca Marrama. SPEAKER 1: Can you spell that? PHYLLIS: M-A-R-R-A-M-A. SPEAKER 1: Okay. And was she from Abruzzi? PHYLLIS: The province of Abruzzi, but the town, the next town to LaRocca called Pendama. And that is spelled P-E-N-D-A-M-A. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: But they didn't know each other, and they met in Reedville, Mass, which is outside of Boston. They married in 1900 at the Stone Church where the reservoir is in West Boylston. And he, when he was a young man, was in construction and worked on that and helped build that church. It has nice memories, you know? To think that he worked on that church and helped build the reservoir, and he got married there. SPEAKER 1: Now was that -- I don't really know the history of that church. Was it indeed a church? PHYLLIS: Oh yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then for the longest time, it went idle, so to speak. And I still don't know today if they've refurbished it and are using it. SPEAKER 1: They don't use it as a church. I've actually never been inside, but I do know a lot of couples get their wedding. [Crosstalk] But I believe there aren't even windows in it. I think it's just a construction. PHYLLIS: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: So anyway, what was he doing in Reedville? PHYLLIS: I have no idea. For most of this history, comes down to me from my mother and what she remembered. And when I asked the question how they met, she said they met in [Ricco]. SPEAKER 1: Okay.3 PHYLLIS: And then at one point my grandmother was living in West Boylston, and he was working construction on the reservoir and the church; and whether they met there, I don't know, but I know they got married there. SPEAKER 1: Now what was your grandmo-, oh your grandmother was Marrama, okay. PHYLLIS: Marrama. SPEAKER 1: Marrama, okay. PHYLLIS: And she was 16 years old and he was 21. SPEAKER 1: Do you have any idea of why your grandfather would've come to Leominster? PHYLLIS: Usually, what happens with immigrants, they go to the town where other family members have gone before them, and they live with these family members until they get on their feet. And I'm sure that was the case because all of his siblings located in the Leominster area. SPEAKER 1: Okay. Do you want to tell me more about the church or West Boylston? PHYLLIS: No, no. I have no history on that at all. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: I do have a lot of history on him, and he couldn't speak English when he came here, so he knew in order to advance himself he would have to -- he taught himself as well as going to night school. And I was reading an article about him, and this is quoting the article: "After moving to Leominster, he took advantage of night school, where he was accorded one of the best pupils in the school, making rapid strides under the tutorship of Attorney J. Ward Healey, who was principal of the night school at that time." You know, it just was interesting. SPEAKER 1: Now where was that clipping from? PHYLLIS: It was from a 25th anniversary write-up about my grandmother and grandfather. SPEAKER 1: Oh, I see. Now, did your grandmother speak English? PHYLLIS: No, I'm sure she didn't. SPEAKER 1: So you didn't know her?4 PHYLLIS: Yes, I did. By the time I arrived, she spoke broken English, but you could understand her. See, these people were self-taught. You know, in order to survive, you had to learn English. SPEAKER 1: So he was working construction. How did he get involved in the restaurant business? PHYLLIS: That comes at the end. This gentleman was into everything. SPEAKER 1: Oh, okay. PHYLLIS: Everything. You'd be amazed at his life. They had three children. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: One son, who died, and two daughters. One of the daughters was my mother. SPEAKER 1: Okay. Why don't you tell me their names, the daughters? PHYLLIS: All right, okay. One was Mildred Lanza, Mildred Montagna Lanza, and the other one was Alice Montagna Tossi. SPEAKER 1: The son who died? PHYLLIS: His name was Henry Montagna. SPEAKER 1: I never thought of Henry as an Italian name, and I keep hearing it. PHYLLIS: I thought about that. I thought about that. And knowing my grandparents, I would've thought that they would've named him Henrico, which is Italian for Henry. But on the gravestone, it says Henry. So I was really surprised because that is not an -- well, they do have Henry in Italian. SPEAKER 1: I just interviewed someone with -- a Henry is in their family, too. PHYLLIS: Really? SPEAKER 1: So, okay. So unfortunately, their baby boy died. But you can just continue and tell me what you know about him. PHYLLIS: All right. My grandfather was as an ever-young man as well as through his adulthood, was a very enterprising man. In 1911 he opened the first movie house in Leominster called the Past Time. It was a silent movie house, and he charged 5 cents per person, and he gave away dishes to attract customers. The movie house was located in the old wood block in 5 the center of Leominster in Monument Square, and I imagine it was located there because he lived there with his family on the 3 rd floor. SPEAKER 1: Now, I think it was pretty common for theaters to offer dishes and plates, was it? PHYLLIS: Yep. SPEAKER 1: Do you have any of those original plates? PHYLLIS: No, no, no. Because I wasn't even born. My mother never kept anything, and I don't think Depression glass was in 1911. That was -- Depression glass was 1929, you know, so. But my mother told me this, she said… SPEAKER 1: So this is about 1911 then. PHYLLIS: 1911 when he opened the first movie theater in Leominster called the Past Time. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: And after the movie house, he went to work for Yale Novelty Manufacturing Company on the corner of Johnson and Lancaster Street in Leominster. And my grandmother also worked there, and they made celluloid hairpins. SPEAKER 1: Now, is this before your mother would've been born? PHYLLIS: My mother was born in 1904. So this was after. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: I think 1906. I think he was 2 years old when he died. SPEAKER 1: Right, so was he born… PHYLLIS: He was born first; probably 1902. SPEAKER 1: Okay. Working at the Yale Manufacturing Company, and when is this? Did they sell the movie house, or…? PHYLLIS: He would start businesses, prosper, and then sell them. And this is the events, how they transpired, according to my mother. So I don't know who he sold the movie house to, but then he went on to the Yale Novelty. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: Also worked for the Far Florist Company on Orchard Street, and there he developed a love of flowers and gardens, which would be incorporated 6 into the name of his last endeavor, which was this restaurant, Monty's Garden Restaurant. SPEAKER 1: Now, where did Monty come from? Montagna? PHYLLIS: Okay, that is the last endeavor, and that will explain all the names. Okay, if I can explain them? SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: And getting back to the timeline, he then opened the first pool parlor on Pleasant Street where the day and night store is. And during his ownership of the pool parlor, he promoted wrestling matches at the town hall featuring a man named Jack Morrow. Now, Jack Morrow was Italian, but they Americanized his name. I don't know what his Italian name was. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: Next business, he started the first bus line in Leominster at the start of Lancaster Street bringing workers down to the viscaloid shop on Lancaster Street. He had an open-bed truck with chairs in the back of it, and he would transport workers that worked in the factory down there. And eventually, if he made more money, he bought buses and had a bus company. The bus company he then sold to his brother Antonio Montagna. SPEAKER 1: I was wondering, did he have a partnership with his brothers when he was doing this? PHYLLIS: No, no, no. He did this all on his own. SPEAKER 1: On his own? PHYLLIS: Yeah. His next venture was an open food store in Monument Square, which is right where Friendly's is about now. And it was called the Montagna Food Company. As the business grew, he became partners with Luigi DiGiovanni, and he sold out to his partner, and the store was eventually to be named the Gloria Chain store, which became a full-service Italian market. SPEAKER 1: The Gloria Change Store? PHYLLIS: Chain.7 SPEAKER 1: Chain. PHYLLIS: Chain, C-H-A-I-N. SPEAKER 1: Where did Gloria come from? PHYLLIS: I have no idea; you'd have to ask descendents of Luigi DiGiovanni. Now, his next venture was selling oil burners in a building at the rear of 35 Central Street. It was called the Rainbow Oil Burner Company. And his future son-in-law, Phillip Lanza worked for him. He then bought the 3-decker building in the front of this 35 rear Central Street. He bought the 3-decker building that faced Central Street, and his family lived on the 3rd floor. The 2nd floor he rented out rooms to roomers, and the first floor he rented out to retail business. Always had an income coming in. And he had a lot of vision and he could foresee in 1933 that the repeal of prohibition was going to happen. So he went out and applied for the first liquor license in Leominster and opened the first restaurant in Leominster called Monty's Garden Restaurant. SPEAKER 1: This is the first restaurant? PHYLLIS: Restaurant, yep. SPEAKER 1: Wow. PHYLLIS: Now, Monty's… SPEAKER 1: Now what year was this? PHYLLIS: 1933. Monty's is short for Montagna; they used to call my grandfather Mr. Monty. And garden was because of the murals he had painted on the walls. And in fact, we still have some of the murals in the old section of the restaurant. He just loved the flowers and gardens. His home on Fort Pawn when he had it built, he had trellises and flowers hanging gardens all over and maintained them mostly himself. SPEAKER 1: Now, did he paint these murals, or he had…? PHYLLIS: He had them painted by a gentleman from Connecticut, and I believe his name is still on the mural, I think. We'd have to go look. Now this restaurant is still in the family, and with the 5th generation great-great 8 granddaughter working here, [Alana Fruschett]. Two of my daughters and one of my sons runs the restaurant. The other children, another son owns his own restaurant in Worcester. SPEAKER 1: And that was Stefano's. PHYLLIS: Stefano's, and my daughter and her husband own the pasta company below the restaurant, and her sister works there. So everyone in my family is in the food industry in one aspect or another. SPEAKER 1: Wow. So this is the same location as 1933, well I can see that it is. PHYLLIS: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: And did you ever think of expanding downstairs, to have the restaurant also downstairs? PHYLLIS: Well, my grandfather never wanted -- everybody's asked, why is the restaurant upstairs? Because he wanted to have retail stores down there to have the income. Plus, there are a lot of taverns located in this area. And he didn't want the people frequenting the taverns to just pop into the restaurant. Going up the stairs kind of prohibited -- it made for selective customers, let's put it that way. Okay? SPEAKER 1: So is this a 2-story building? I guess I didn't pay attention. PHYLLIS: Three-story. SPEAKER 1: Three? So what's above? PHYLLIS: Right now, they're using it for office space and storage. SPEAKER 1: And what was it used for back then? PHYLLIS: They lived on the 3rd floor, my grandparents and my aunt and my mother. Second floor was for roomers. He had tenants, you know, that would rent rooms. SPEAKER 1: On the second, here? PHYLLIS: Yes. SPEAKER 1: In this building? Behind the restaurant, or where? PHYLLIS: You know, this is a 3-story building. SPEAKER 1: Aren't we on the 2nd? PHYLLIS: This is where the roomers were, on this floor. 9 SPEAKER 1: Oh okay, before he opened the restaurant. PHYLLIS: Before he opened the restaurant. Once he opened the restaurant, on the 2nd floor -- he still had roomers on the 3rd floor because by then my aunt and my mother had moved out into their own homes. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: So they still rented rooms up there, and my grandmother was such a hard worker. She not only helped with the restaurant in cooking and cleaning, she'd have to take care of the rooms of the roomers too, you know? SPEAKER 1: So let's talk a little bit about the boarding, the rooms. Who did they rent these rooms to? PHYLLIS: Well, you know, what I mentioned how when an immigrant comes to an area where there are other relatives or people that they knew in Italy, they want to congregate or relocate in the same area that they do? Well, sometimes they're not necessarily people that have families here. So they didn't have anyone and they didn't know where to go, or where to live, or they didn't have the funds, and people would tell them to go see Mr. Monty, he will help you. So my grandfather rented out rooms to people that -- immigrants from Italy. And some were not immigrants, some were just people that relocated here and they would just say Mr. Montagna has a rooming house, he will help you. You know? And many people came here and rented rooms at one time, just to get started, you know? SPEAKER 1: About how many rooms are we talking about? PHYLLIS: About 4 rooms. SPEAKER 1: Four? PHYLLIS: Four rooms. Once he had the restaurant, now I don't know how many rooms -- there must have been quite a few rooms on the 2nd floor before the restaurant. See, I only have knowledge of the four upstairs. But before them, I have no idea. SPEAKER 1: And now there are offices up there, you said? PHYLLIS: Yeah, yeah.10 SPEAKER 1: So was it basically word of mouth? PHYLLIS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can remember when I lived above the restaurant with my family, because I think it was a stopping place for many people because we didn't have to pay rent, and we still had roomers, and I remember the Salvation Army calling a lot of times asking if we had rooms for people that they couldn't house, you know? But after awhile we just stopped doing it because it was too much work. By the time my father took over the restaurant, and my mother -- I remember she had a few roomers, but then by the time -- and then I had, when I lived up there, I took care of some rooms too. But after I moved out, they discontinued having the rooms. SPEAKER 1: Now, did your mother or sister also get involved n the restaurant business? PHYLLIS: Well, my aunt -- no, but her husband did work as a bartender for my grandfather early on in 1930s. SPEAKER 1: I'm not sure, did you give -- you did give me her married name. PHYLLIS: Yes, Tossi. SPEAKER 1: Tossi, okay. So your mother. PHYLLIS: My mother. SPEAKER 1: She worked so hard? PHYLLIS: Well, that was my grandmother. SPEAKER 1: Yes, your grandmother. PHYLLIS: My father also worked for my grandfather as a bartender, and later on becoming the cook. And my mother worked very hard too. She didn't do much down here in the line of cooking, but she cleaned the downstairs, and she cleaned the rooms for the roomers, so she worked hard also. SPEAKER 1: Now your grandfather, was he primarily a manager/owner of this restaurant, or did he actually cook? PHYLLIS: No, he didn't cook. He was out front management, the best salesman you could ever have. He treated his customers like royalty, knew everybody by their name, his old cronies, would pour them extra drinks, you know. 11 He'd be behind the bar most of the time, and that's where his customers wanted to see him, behind the bar. "Oh, here's Mr. Monty. Hi Monty, how you doing? How's this going?" You know, that's part of the out front management, know your customers, treat your customers well. And I have to go into his other life away from the restaurant. He had a very active life, and that is my next segment. SPEAKER 1: Okay, can we still talk about the restaurant a little bit more? PHYLLIS: Sure, sure. SPEAKER 1: Who did he hire as a cook? Was that also a family member? PHYLLIS: No, no, these two gentlemen were from Boston. He hired a Paul [Solafia], and we used to call him Tiny [Bissonet]. Now his descendants are still around as well as Mr. Solafia's descendents, but they have both passed on. And after that, then there was my father in the kitchen, and my father taught my husband what he knows today. And then my husband passed all those learning techniques to my sons and one daughter who worked in the kitchen. And you know, it's been passed down like that, same recipes. SPEAKER 1: Back then was there a specialty that people would come in for? PHYLLIS: I should show you the old menu. SPEAKER 1: Oh yeah. PHYLLIS: Do you want to [show that]? SPEAKER 1: Well we'll look at it after we're done. PHYLLIS: I mean, when you consider spaghetti and meatball and a salad for 50 cents. SPEAKER 1: That would be like a dream come true now, wouldn't it? PHYLLIS: Oh boy, that was wonderful. And don't forget, this was the only restaurant. You know? Maybe they had diners, but this was the only restaurant, and they served Italian and American food. At one point he was serving Chinese food, chop suey, chow mein, and remember the Asian gentleman coming in and delivering his product, and it seemed funny that an Italian restaurant would serve that. But then you think back, there was no other really sit-down nice restaurant. SPEAKER 1: Was there an Asian population that used to come in?12 PHYLLIS: No. SPEAKER 1: So this is just… PHYLLIS: This is, you know, people that were used to going to Boston to get Chinese food, thereby thinking again, you know, why let them go to Boston when they can get it here? My grandfather was always thinking, always thinking. SPEAKER 1: Now, who primarily were the customers? I mean it's my understanding that people back then, let's say Italians, didn't really go out to dinner. Or is that just a myth? PHYLLIS: That's a myth. That's a myth. Many couples today that have passed on used to tell me when I worked here, you know, we got engaged up here in the booth. I presented my wife with her diamond, or I asked her to marry me, and they continue to bring their children and their grandchildren. So it's a tradition, you know? Oh boy, when I was working I would hear many stories from the customers, "Oh, your grandfather did this," or he was that. But to pinpoint people, there were so many, and there were a lot of Italians. SPEAKER 1: There were. PHYLLIS: A lot of Italians, a lot of politicians because my grandfather was involved, not directly with politics but committees, civic committees. But we'll go into that after we finish here. SPEAKER 1: Well I imagine it was sort of exciting back in the early '30s and mid '30s to share the Italian culture with the rest of Leominster. Do you remember ethnic group coming in and maybe being used to that kind of food? PHYLLIS: Well, I really don't want to pinpoint. SPEAKER 1: You don't have to pinpoint particular people. PHYLLIS: Just even particular ethnic backgrounds, you know. But I remember working when I had customers come in. Sugar on the [unintelligible - 00:26:58]. Another time I remember serving—because I waitressed here too—I remember ketchup on their spaghetti and sauce. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't go back to the table, you know. 13 But your Italian people were used to eating food like that, that they would serve here, and American people that weren't familiar with some of the dishes. But once they tasted it, you know, they would always order certain things. And of course the menu items changed over the years. They still served meat, steaks. SPEAKER 1: So did your grandfather introduce that, steak? PHYLLIS: Oh yes. He used to go to Boston, I don't know how many times a week, whereas now with the expressway, and he would go to the butcher shop and he would buy sides of beef and cartons of fruit and cartons of fresh vegetables and bring them back. And I remember going with him when I was a little girl; it was so interesting, you know, and everybody knew him in Boston in the market area. But he could get a better price by doing it that way than going through a third person, you know? A middleman. So you know, I can remember when my father was cooking here seeing him go in the big walk-in cooler and taking a knife and cutting off steak, of a side of beef. Or cutting off a certain portion and making hamburger or a roast or whatever, you know? Those are my memories of the kitchen. SPEAKER 1: Now, did he have maybe a different clientele? Let's say for the bar area, there were kind of regulars there? PHYLLIS: Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of people would come in just to have a drink. But these were -- they were not the tavern people that would go for a drink. They'd come in, in suits, and you know, they may have a drink before they went to the movies. See, the movie house was right adjacent to this building, and many people would either come before the movie or after the movies because we were open until two o'clock at that time. SPEAKER 1: Two o'clock in the morning? PHYLLIS: Yep. The only restaurant in Leominster, you're going to stay open for your customers when, you know -- of course the movie house would run two shows, and people would want to eat after the show or before. SPEAKER 1: Would it be a full menu still until two o'clock?14 PHYLLIS: Oh yes, oh yeah. I can remember when my father came into the business, he would tell me it was really hard to work until two o'clock in the morning and then go to bed and get up the next day and work the next day, you know? So when he took it over, he did away with two o'clock. Twelve o'clock. And then when my husband came into the business, it was 11, and then it went to 10. He said this, you know, it's too much. SPEAKER 1: I was just reading that Americans in particular, they're getting up earlier, they're going to bed earlier. So do you see that? PHYLLIS: Well, yes. SPEAKER 1: I mean, not necessarily not to go to dinner. PHYLLIS: Well yes, we do. Because your dinner hour is -- you have your early birds at four o'clock; those are the ones that go to bed at eight. And then about 8:30 it dies down, and you'll have your stragglers who are coming in after shopping, or a movie will come in, and we're open until 10 for that. SPEAKER 1: It's so different let's say in Europe where things are just heating up then, right? PHYLLIS: I went to Spain and things -- you know, 10 o'clock was very early for them to go out to eat. You know? And breakfast, you couldn't get any breakfast until 11. SPEAKER 1: It's so different. PHYLLIS: Unless you just wanted a coffee. SPEAKER 1: So first of all, was the restaurant set up in this way? PHYLLIS: No, this room here was always here, but there were booths all along the wall. They remodeled it to make it a banquet room, and the addition -- oh goodness, I can't think of it. They put the addition on -- my daughter would know, from seating maybe 50 people, we expanded it to… SPEAKER 1: When he opened it he could seat about 50? PHYLLIS: Well yeah, yes, yes. I'd say that, 50, 60. But when my husband and I took it over, our business was booming so much that people -- there was a 2-hour wait. SPEAKER 1: Now when was this?15 PHYLLIS: 1960, when my husband -- well, we knew, first of all we asked our children before we think of an addition, are you willing to stay on and work? And they said yes. And we went on and added a whole new kitchen and a whole new dining room, keeping the same décor in the booths that our customers insisted upon. They said if you don't have these booths in your new section, we're not coming back, you know? And they were so happy to see that we did. SPEAKER 1: There's so much more pride… PHYLLIS: Oh God. SPEAKER 1: So now your grandmother, how involved was she in this enterprise? PHYLLIS: Well, she went right along with my grandfather. She helped cook, she helped cleaned the downstairs for the downstairs restaurant, and she maintained the cleaning in the rooms of the roomers. So she was busy, she was a hard worker, a very hard worker. SPEAKER 1: So your grandfather, he must have been satisfied finally because this is his -- was this his last endeavor? Or was that… PHYLLIS: Well, it was his last business endeavor. SPEAKER 1: Business? PHYLLIS: Yeah, once he moved from above the restaurant, he built a home on Fort Pond, and he was more or less in retirement. He would still come in to check and make sure everything was okay, that my father was doing what he wanted my father to do; but eventually he became sickly, and that's when he stopped. SPEAKER 1: How many days was it open? PHYLLIS: He had it open seven days a week. SPEAKER 1: Wow. PHYLLIS: But this is my grandfather the businessman, you know? You have customers, they want to eat, you open seven days a week. SPEAKER 1: So I don't imagine you had a big Italian population for Sundays, or did you?16 PHYLLIS: No, it was mostly the other ethnic backgrounds that came in on Sunday. Because, you know, the Italians always gathered at their grandmother's house or their mother's house for Sunday dinner. It was, you know, a lot of loners, a lot of other ethnic background couples that would come as a treat to go out on Sunday, you know? SPEAKER 1: Do you think this was all of his employees back in 1933? PHYLLIS: Oh yeah, yeah. SPEAKER 1: And did they typically stay with him for a long time? PHYLLIS: Well, I was born in '34, the only ones I don't remember, this gentleman, this gentleman, the rest I remember. SPEAKER 1: So the two… PHYLLIS: I don't remember their names except her. They stayed. Her name is Gabrielle [Grenash]. SPEAKER 1: Grenash? PHYLLIS: I don't remember the others. SPEAKER 1: So it looks like two, four, twelve, eleven to twelve employees. PHYLLIS: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: And I think marking before the tape was running, but can you just explain those costumes a little bit that the waitresses wore? PHYLLIS: Well, in Italy, each little province or town had their own native dress, and I think he probably wanted to incorporate that with the red, the white, and the green colors of the Italian flag. So where my grandfather came from, the women wore these vests, and it was like a -- what's the word? SPEAKER 1: Bra? PHYLLIS: Bustier? SPEAKER 1: Oh yeah. PHYLLIS: You know, similar to that with black and white peasant blouse. Their hair in some kind of black scarf. And I'm sure it was similar to that where my grandfather came from, and he wanted something that was going to be reminiscent of Italy and with the Italian colors as well. Now, I don't know if I still have [age groups]. The first one did go into something similar to 17 that, trying to keep a tradition, but then it just became too cost-effective, you know, [unintelligible - 00:36:47] them and launder them and everything. SPEAKER 1: I'm thinking of keeping them clean. PHYLLIS: Well, yeah. SPEAKER 1: Because that looks difficult to do. PHYLLIS: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: There's so much white. Now, was he open for lunch also? PHYLLIS: Oh yeah. SPEAKER 1: For lunch and dinner. PHYLLIS: Just lunch and dinner seven days a week. Then as a new generation took over, they'd cut the hours down, although my father did keep seven days a week. When my husband and I took it over, we decided on Tuesday to close, on Tuesday because all the other restaurants were closed on Monday, so why not stay open on Monday? SPEAKER 1: So you have some of your grandfather's marketing expertise, evidently. So tell me what a day in his life was like owning the restaurant. PHYLLIS: Well, it was mostly -- you know he'd come in to his office, he'd go over the books, he'd do his bookkeeping, you know, his daily bookkeeping. And then he would take my grandmother and then go into Boston and spend the day in Boston purchasing the items I told you. And going to visit other friends, and then coming back so he could work the bar at night. SPEAKER 1: This is obviously after he became successful, but that's when you really remembered anyway. PHYLLIS: Yeah, I don't remember him working at the floor. I have pictures of him -- or in any other businesses he had, I wasn't around. And you know, it seems as though they didn't save too much then, like pictures and things. It was hard to come by some of these pictures that I do have. Now my children are all clamoring for them, you know? They want to carry on this heritage, and I'm so glad I talked to my mother. SPEAKER 1: Oh, I know. You have…18 PHYLLIS: So glad I talked to my mother about all this. SPEAKER 1: So what's the day for you like? Was it similar in any way? PHYLLIS: Well, when I was working here, I just worked the weekends because they were the busiest, keeping in mind I had six children at home [unintelligible - 00:39:13], and I'd be working. It was so busy, so very, very busy. Very stressful. Worrying about my children, are they okay, my teenagers, what are they doing, are they home on time, getting ready to seat the next customers, getting a call from home, it was horrible, it was horrible, that aspect of it. But the other aspect, the gratifying aspect was seeing customers that were older than me coming back and telling me stories about my grandfather, "Oh, Mr. Monty did this," or, "We've been coming here for 25 years," and knowing your customer by name. You know? They loved that if you recognized them, it meant something to them. And my husband was even busier than I was. He would be working 60 hours a week, it was hard for him. And that's when he decided to start cutting down the hours, the night hours, closing hours, and closing one day a week. He says, "I need that one day—not to relax, just to get things done," to have improvements done, or repairs done, or certain cleaning done to the stove, and things like that. He needed an extra day; and on his day off he was here all day. SPEAKER 1: Actually, you both talked about this. So you're glad that you continued with the business? PHYLLIS: Yes in one aspect because it's a two-sided feeling. The good side was it provided us with a very excellent way of life. Secondly, the other side of the coin, we had no family life. You know how the Italians get together on Sunday? We didn't have that. My husband was always working. So my father, who loved -- I'm an only child, so he just loved being with my children. He would take us out to dinner with all my children, so they got used to going out to eat very 19 young and being very critical of the menu and, you know. Being in the food business, you know, they grew up that way. Holidays my husband insisted, when he had the business, we close on Christmas, close on Thanksgiving, and close on Easter. We were open for New Year's Day, but you know, you had everybody that had hangovers come in on New Year's Day, so my husband said, we're closing New Year's Day, too. And that was really the only time we could get together as a family. So you have your advantages and you have your disadvantages, and you try to mesh them together. SPEAKER 1: Now, does that mean your grandfather was open during Christmas Day, Thanksgiving Day? PHYLLIS: Always the businessman. I remember coming up here into this room having Christmas dinner with my grandparents and my mother, and myself and my aunt and her family, and my father having to cook, you know, for us, for our customers that came in. You know, and he'd run in, you know, because he was busy in the kitchen. I always remembered that. I remember one Thanksgiving I had it by myself in a booth, I felt so terrible. Because my father was working, and my mother, she was upstairs, she didn't want to come down, and I don't know where the rest of the family was then, you know? But I remember being alone then. SPEAKER 1: Did that in any way become a stimulus for you to have six children? PHYLLIS: Well, it provided the stimulus to have as much family get-togethers as possible. You know, there's a lot of family time, let's all be together. If you want to bring your friends over that's okay, but this is our time. Tuesdays, Tuesday night it was a special time; either we went out to eat as a family, or we had people over. But that was our Sunday dinner, like -- because everybody would be home, my husband; and I would say don't plan anything for Tuesday night. That's our family night, you know? And I feel badly because today my children have to work around the schedule here, so they guard their time-20 off very, very much. So, "Ma, this is my only day off, you know? I'm going to do this; I'm going to spend time with my family." So it's hard even to get together now with them because they're, you know, six children. My son is working hard at his restaurant, my daughter downstairs who works all week long wants her Sundays to herself. In that aspect I'm sorry that we're not an average Italian family. But on the other hand, it's providing us with other things in life. SPEAKER 1: I'm sure you did the right things only because your children are in the business. PHYLLIS: Oh yes, oh yes. We provided a business for four of our children who -- my son also worked here, but then he wanted to have his own restaurant, which I think is wonderful. Now he knows how hard his father worked. You know, when I go to visit him, he'll say, "I can't get everything done. "This has happened, "that, and then one thing or another, and I laugh and I look at him and I say, "Think about your father, what he went through." SPEAKER 1: Your mother saw her father work like that. PHYLLIS: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: You saw your father. PHYLLIS: And she was used to it by the time her husband was in the business; she was used to seeing her father work all those hours. So she didn't -- I never heard her complaining that much about my father having to go into work certain nights, days, holidays, because she was brought up in that. Although I saw it, and I accepted it, I didn't like it. But I accepted it because it was our way of life, you know? But now the restaurant has provided my husband and I with so much opportunity, to travel and to do the things that we couldn't do, to have a social life, to have friends, and you know, we're appreciating that now. SPEAKER 1: Good. Your mother, your grandmother, you? PHYLLIS: Well, my grandmother did. I remember going to visit and staying with her at their home on Fort Pond, I used to love to go there because she would cook my favorite foods, like pancakes from scratch and different kind of 21 pastas, and it was nice being there. And we were right on the pond and I would bring all my friends over, and she'd feed everybody and we'd go swimming. My mother cooked when she lived in her own home, but when she moved above the restaurant, she didn't cook. "You hungry? Go ask your father for something to eat," you know? We didn't have meals together. My daughters all cook, are wonderful cooks. The one that has the store downstairs, out of this world, she's fabulous. But they all cook. And both my sons, even the son that works here, he cooks. So it's all in the food industry throughout the whole family. SPEAKER 1: Now I see… PHYLLIS: Oh yes, the veal parmesan was a specialty. SPEAKER 1: Was that offered every day? PHYLLIS: Yes. You know, as the different owners took leadership of the restaurant, they brought in different foods, you know, different menus. My children today have much more on their menu than we had only for the fact that preparation time, you know, you can only do so much. You can't be making these very fancy dishes to order because we had a small kitchen and you couldn't do that. When they expanded, then they started expanding their menu. I will show you the original menu that's on the wall in the waiting room. SPEAKER 1: Was Friday a big fish day? PHYLLIS: Oh yeah, yes. He also went in and bought his -- I'm sorry, he bought his fish fresh in Boston also, transporting it back and forth. You know, he made sure he'd be there first thing on Thursday to pick up his fish supply, scallop, shrimp, haddock. SPEAKER 1: That leads me to another question. I was wondering if Fridays are still a big fish day. PHYLLIS: Oh yeah, oh yes, yeah. You'd be surprised, especially with today's customers are so health conscious. They'll have fish any time during the week, not only on Friday because it's, you know, it's good for you. So we 22 have a few specialties during the week of fish as well as our fish menu ever, not just on Fridays. SPEAKER 1: Is that different? I'm wondering, do people really primarily fish only on Fridays back then? And now it's more [accepted]? PHYLLIS: I have to think. You know, fish was very inexpensive years ago. Today fish is as expensive as steak, you know, certain types of fish. So I would assume fish could've been on the Italian table more than once a week if they could afford to buy it. You know, there was only one fish market in Leominster at the time, and I still remember my own family having fish more than once a week on Fridays. But I can't speak for others. You know, with the sauce, you can make a marinara -- what do you call it? I need to get -- a certain kind of sauce made with squid. SPEAKER 1: I don't know what it's called. PHYLLIS: I can't think of the name, senior moment. I'll think of it. And that's made with sauce. So Italians would have that with pasta, or they would make, good pasta. Anything -- clam sauce, they would make. And that wasn't just on Friday; that was anytime, you know, that the mother wanted to cook it. SPEAKER 1: Now did you call -- do you just call sauce "sauce"? I mean did you ever call it gravy? PHYLLIS: No. SPEAKER 1: Why is that? PHYLLIS: I don't know. But any Italian that's Italian calls it sauce. Anybody else, if they're not Italian, calls it gravy. When people say I want gravy, if somebody says gravy they bring them out brown gravy. SPEAKER 1: So how have things changed over the years? Let's say the clientele. PHYLLIS: The clientele changes with the times. I remember when I worked I had a lot of yuppies, that they wanted to go out; and no matter what the cost, they wanted good food. And they expected for you to provide that with a smile and excellent service, and then they were yours forever. I remember that in particular, a lot of young people, young professionals…23 SPEAKER 1: What year, about? Oh, they have to come. PHYLLIS: Do they have to come? SPEAKER 2: Yeah they have to -- unless you guys want to go into the lounge. PHYLLIS: Go into the lounge. SPEAKER 1: Sure. PHYLLIS: And then he had a mahogany bar, a 10-foot mahogany bar. But when that 4th generation came in, they decided it would be a business move, a better business move, to increase the size of the other dining room to have large parties come in. So, you know, the little bit of business the bar did there, they decided to take it out. SPEAKER 1: So the 4th generation is your children. PHYLLIS: Yes. SPEAKER 1: And you said the 5th is working too, your grandchildren? PHYLLIS: One of my daughters Darla is waitressing here. Who knows what she wants? It's a start. They all started working here when they were young, all my children. As soon as they were tall enough to wash dishes, they were behind there washing dishes. And then they learned how to make the salads and work the kitchen line. SPEAKER 1: How has the restaurant business changed over the years? Oh, first of all we were talking about the clientele and how you mentioned the people who were coming in. PHYLLIS: Yeah, that I thought were yuppies. SPEAKER 1: Yuppies. And I asked you what year. PHYLLIS: '79 is when we remodeled. SPEAKER 1: Remodeled? PHYLLIS: And enlarged the restaurant. SPEAKER 1: So how have people's expectations changed when they come out to eat? PHYLLIS: I think they're more knowledgeable today. Even then in 1979 people knew what they wanted. They wanted good quality, and they let me know about it. Whereas years and years ago, they just took whatever you put in front of them and were happy. They never would complain. Not that we 24 didn't give them good service or good food, but I note the clientele today are very discriminating, if that's the correct word. They know what they want and you gotta provide it. SPEAKER 1: I noticed the sign when we just walked in here to the lounge is catering, you offer catering now? PHYLLIS: Yeah, they just started doing that. You know, a lot of the restaurants are doing that now. People would come up and -- see, we don't deliver, but people would come up and say, well I want such and such for a group of 30. And we would suggest certain foods, certain sizes; do you want it hot or do you want it oven ready? You know, it's a big help. A lot of people -- you know, more people are eating out. There's two workers in the family all the time and they don't have time to come home and cook. So anything that makes life easier for them, and that's why the store downstairs, she has all prepared foods that people can buy by the pound and go home and heat it up and have a meal. SPEAKER 1: But do you do a take-out? PHYLLIS: Oh yeah. SPEAKER 1: When did that really start, do you think? PHYLLIS: Forever. SPEAKER 1: Forever? PHYLLIS: When my grandfather had it, he was -- I remember having take-out, and the customers that were shut-ins would call a taxi and call here and say, I'd like such and such, and the taxi is picking it up. SPEAKER 1: So you went from only one restaurant, you're the only restaurant in town, so now there's so many. PHYLLIS: Five or six Italian restaurants. And we know the owners very well, because they're all mostly Italians other than the ones that are in Fitchburg. And we're all very friendly with them, you know. SPEAKER 1: Do you try to offer something different than let's say their restaurants offer?25 PHYLLIS: Not really. We go our own way and do our own thing. They're always looking for new menus, new preparation of foods, different foods introduced, you know, all the specialties, that they will try different. LINDA: Hi, I'm Linda. SPEAKER 1: Linda. PHYLLIS: She's interviewing for Fitchburg State College. SPEAKER 1: We're almost done. SPEAKER 2: All right. Did you want to look at that box on my truck so I can leave it here? Because he's worried about these two. PHYLLIS: Nothing but good about you, honey. SPEAKER 1: A different type of menu. PHYLLIS: Menus. People are starting to come in. SPEAKER 1: Let me ask you about your grandfather as far as he was civic-minded. PHYLLIS: Yeah. SPEAKER 1: Okay. PHYLLIS: They would ask him to be their Marshall of their mini-parade, and I remember seeing a picture of my grandfather on a horse leading a parade. SPEAKER 1: Maybe the historical society has that. PHYLLIS: Maybe. I know they have a wonderful film that they just put on video that I was asked to go and see, and my grandfather is in many of the scenes, and my grandmother as well. I could not believe my grandmother was in them. SPEAKER 1: How exciting. PHYLLIS: It was. And the most exciting part for me was the last shot. They had shots of all the children in all the schools, and these Lancaster Street schools, it showed a shot of all the children, and of course they put the nursery school children in the front, there I was. I couldn't believe it. And I knew it was me. I knew it because I said I had a coat just like that. And I go, "Oh my God, that's me." It was so interesting. SPEAKER 1: Now, who produced that?26 PHYLLIS: It's the historical society. They showed it to the public, I had a private viewing, and then they showed it to the public and as soon as they get enough money, they're going to mass produce them to sell to different people. SPEAKER 1: Was this related to Italians or just Leominster in general? PHYLLIS: Leominster in general. It had pictures of the restaurant, scenes of the waitresses serving customers, my grandfather standing there, my grandfather behind the bar with my father and my uncle. They had a shot of the walk-in cooler with the beef hanging. I think it was a promotional film depicting what's in Leominster because certain businesses were depicted also, like Fuller Lumber Company that no longer exists, shots of them; DuPont; people coming out of work. So it looked like a promotional thing. It showed city council and my grandfather was on a lot of committees. So anyway getting back to -- he was a founding father of Saint Anna's Church. He served on many committees, and one of which was the selective service board, otherwise known as the draft board. And I remember hearing how difficult it was for him to draft some of the sons of his closest friends, draft them to go to war. It was very difficult for him. And as I said before, he helped many immigrant Italian families to get established once they arrived in Leominster; and if anyone needed financial help for a business or money to send their son to college, they would always come and ask my grandfather for a loan. And you know, he would help many Italian families become assimilated in the American culture; and as a result he became godfather to many Italian sons and daughters, many, because that was a note of compliment to someone to ask them to be godparent to their child. And as I said, he was a man ahead of his time with his wisdom, his vision, his kindness and generosity. And that's how we'll always remember him. SPEAKER 1: He died when you were in your 30s or so?27 PHYLLIS: No, I was married and had children. He died in 1960. My husband was working at the restaurant. We were living above the restaurant and I had three children. SPEAKER 1: But the point is you really got to know him. PHYLLIS: Oh yes, yes. I'd like to think I was one of his favorites. I wasn't afraid of him. He was a very stern man. He seemed stern to all the grandchildren, but he really was an old softie. And I'd always -- when I was away at school, when I was at private girl's school, and I'd come home, and I'd always want to be with him, or I would like pestering him, you know, and he would make like I was pestering him, but really not, you know? And I used to kid with him, and I used to play with his single strand of hair that he had, that you could curl it, and he'd let me do it, you know? But the others never got close to him because they thought he was so stern, but he wasn't. I'll always remember him. SPEAKER 1: You know, a question comes to mind, because usually I ask people if it was important for them to marry Italian. PHYLLIS: Yes, it was. SPEAKER 1: But in your instance I'm wondering how important it was to marry someone who liked the restaurant business. PHYLLIS: Well, when I first met my husband, that had no bearing whatsoever how I became falling in love with my husband, because his parents also owned a variety store/restaurant in Leominster, and he worked there. So in 1960 after we came back from Italy—because he was in the service—he had a decision to make whether to stay in the service and go to Korea, or get out of the service and either take over his father's business or take over my father's business, and he chose this restaurant. SPEAKER 1: And briefly about the last name Caligaris. You said it's Italian. PHYLLIS: It is. If you're in Italy, it's spelled with a C. In Greece, it's spelled with a K because there's no C in the Greek alphabet and there's no K in the Italian alphabet. And we assumed that it was an intermarriage between 28 some Greeks, you know. The Caligaris originated in the southern part of Italy, but my husband's relatives came from northern Italy; the [Piedmont] area, which is not in Italy. We have Turin and Milano, so you can see they intermarried and then they moved to northern Italy. And his family had vineyards in the province of Asti, where they make Asti Spumante. They used to make barberra wine, red wine. It's interesting going there to see the oxen come up the hill loaded with mounds of grapes. People would handpick the grapes. I remember my mother with the scissors, snipping off the grapes and putting them in the basket. [Unintelligible – 01:06:20] SPEAKER 1: Your grandfather was the founder of Saint Anna's, was he a religious man? PHYLLIS: Yes. He had the -- what do I want to say? The degree, the bishop Evans degree in the Knights of Columbus; it's one of the highest degrees you can get. And he was very active with the Knights of Columbus. Very religious, very generous to the church. SPEAKER 1: What would he think of the business today? Let's say he walked up the stairs like I just did. PHYLLIS: I often think about that, and I would say, if only my grandfather lived, you know, to see his different generations, what they've done to the restaurant and how they've improved on it and how his grandchildren and great grandchildren and great-great grandchild have still maintained ties to the restaurant, that would please him so much. SPEAKER 1: He would be shocked by the way food is prepared now? PHYLLIS: No, because my grandfather, as I said, is before his time. He knows there's always improvements. You have to be better and best yourself, so he would understand this. You know, he wasn't set in his ways. No, he would be very proud, very proud. He would be very proud that the new section still maintained the atmosphere of the old. He would be the happiest to know it was still family that was running the restaurant. SPEAKER 1: One more question, what does it mean to be Italian to you?29 PHYLLIS: We have such a proud heritage. I can't imagine being anything else than Italian. We're a very warm people, loving, family-oriented, giving. We understand the plight and unfortunate incidents of other ethnic people because we were in their place at one time, you know, and I think that helps us to understand the other ethnic backgrounds. I think being Italian has given me a wonderful sense of different types of food, not only Italian food but other foods that we would be willing to try, because it would be different. I'm sure you've heard of the saying Italians live to eat, not eat to live. And that is so true, so true. The first thing someone comes to your house, sit down, "Have this, have that," you know, that's our first thing that comes to mind is food. It's a big part of our life, a part of our heritage. Unfortunately the younger people don't have the time—let's put it that way—to become involved where they can be with fellow Italians like the Italian center down on Lancaster Street where we are members of and we have social gatherings with a lot of other Italians. You know? And it reinforces our heritage. Unfortunately the younger people don't do that. So consequently what's going to happen, the heritage, it's going to lose its meaning, you know? And there's so many intermarriages that it's thinning out, you know? My generation, they really would've liked you to marry someone of your ethnic background, which I did. The generation before mine, it was insisted upon. You marry your own. You know? Like every other ethnic background went the same way. But today's generation, it doesn't make any difference. SPEAKER 1: Did it make a difference with your children's generation? PHYLLIS: No, no. They were the ones that intermarried other backgrounds. I have -- let's see, one child that married a half-Italian, that's the best we could get. She was half-Italian. And all the rest married, you know, French, or Irish, Yankee or whatever. 30 And you know, they adapt to our ways. They learn how to eat the foods that we eat, albeit it was very foreign to them. But now they love it. And I have one French son-in-law and he keeps reminding me, "Oh Ma, remember when you put that on the table for the first time and I didn't know what it was? And now I love it." SPEAKER 1: Now, were the spouses involved with the restaurant? PHYLLIS: At some point as an extra job, you know, bartending, one thing or another, you know? The wife would bartender or waitress. You know, that was just as extra money, not really -- the family really was the mainstay. They managed the restaurant and manned the restaurant. It's best not to have the in-laws on any decision. It has to be family, and they have to get along. They make a big effort. SPEAKER 1: Do they? PHYLLIS: They make a very big effort to get along. They have meetings. If anything happens they discuss it, which is good. You just can't have siblings run a restaurant and they're not happy about it, and it festers and festers, and -- no. That's why it's so out of the ordinary to have a restaurant go five generations. And if Alana is really not in a management end of it, who knows what she wants to do? Taking business administration, so who knows what she wants to do? SPEAKER 1: Are there any restaurants in the state, let's say, that span five generations? PHYLLIS: Not that I know of. SPEAKER 1: That really is amazing. PHYLLIS: What happens with people -- like in the Boston area, I know the Union House is an old restaurant. They claim to be the first restaurant in Massachusetts, and sure, if it's still owned by the same owner. SPEAKER 1: I thought it was sold. PHYLLIS: It could be. SPEAKER 1: I don't know. PHYLLIS: That never entered our mind. SPEAKER 1: Never?31 PHYLLIS: Never. SPEAKER 1: Even now? PHYLLIS: Never. Never entered our mind. SPEAKER 1: What was your hardest experience? PHYLLIS: Working those weekends when my children were home, worrying about them, not being able to be there to go over, you know, what was going on in my house. I found that very difficult. The stress working here -- I loved being—I'm a people person—I loved being with my customers, interacting with them, hearing if they enjoyed it, if they didn't enjoy it, why. But the stress was the cause of a heart attack for me. So after then my children became really involved and said, "Look, you just go up in the office and do a few things, and between the four of us we'll take care of the downstairs." And then eventually after awhile, they could handle everything. So I didn't have to work. SPEAKER 1: So what role do you play now? Do you play any in the restaurant? PHYLLIS: Nope. I come in, see my children on Friday, "Hi, how are you? How are you doing? How is this one doing? What's up?" and this and that, and just to keep in contact, go downstairs and see my two daughters. Once in awhile I'll go into Worcester to see my son and his wife and four children. SPEAKER 1: Do they live in Worcester? PHYLLIS: Yes, yeah, yeah. I'm enjoying life now. My husband and I are really enjoying life and we're reaping the rewards of hard work at the restaurant. And I know someday my children will too. They believe in more -- other management, other family members being managers, thereby giving them more time off to be with their families. They still work the weekends, but not all of them. One will be here. And then they rotate, so they all have time off, which is good. With my husband and I, I had no sisters, and his brother has another profession, so it was kind of all up to us to do it. SPEAKER 1: Please tell me now, your two daughters that work downstairs, that own that -- what's it called?32 PHYLLIS: The [Pasta] Company. My daughter, Sandra [Osborne] and her husband Richard own that. And I'm going to have to take you down there to show you. SPEAKER 1: Yeah, I want to see that. PHYLLIS: And just recently her sister came to work for her, and it's so wonderful. SPEAKER 1: And what's her name? PHYLLIS: Lynn. SPEAKER 1: Lynn? PHYLLIS: It's so wonderful that she's working for her sister just because family is there. When my daughter's not there she knows her sister is, and all will be run right. SPEAKER 1: And now the children up here, what are their names? PHYLLIS: Leslie. SPEAKER 1: Leslie. PHYLLIS: There's Dean. And they all have their own department that they run. Leslie is the -- she assists, manager, bookkeeper. Dean is the out front manager, hiring, firing waitresses, training them. Brian does the bar and hiring the bartenders and the cooks, overseeing the kitchen, at times, cooking himself, dishwashers. You know, it's divided up nicely, but at one point I was doing it all. My husband was doing the bookwork, but I was doing the hiring and firing of everybody, and it was so stressful. SPEAKER 1: And Steven is at Stefano's. PHYLLIS: Yeah. And, you know, his wife helps him. She has her own teaching job, but she helped him on the weekends, and his oldest daughter works on Saturday because it's that busy, as a waitress. And he was telling me that she knows the business already, that she could manage that business. So I can foresee his children going right through his business, which is -- it's good. You know, there's nothing like having family there. SPEAKER 1: That's right. Thank you, is there anything else you'd like to add? PHYLLIS: No, I think I covered my grandfather's life pretty much.33 SPEAKER 1: He sounds like a wonderful man. PHYLLIS: Wasn't he? SPEAKER 1: Remarkable. PHYLLIS: A remarkable person, you know? And my son said to me the other day -- he was interviewed by Maria Populous, she has the "Cooking with Maria." SPEAKER 1: Oh, okay. PHYLLIS: And they did an hour-segment on Stefano's and they interviewed him. At the initial interview, he said how disappointed he was that he never got to meet who all started this, you know? Shot of him cooking and doing his specialty, what he liked, and then his other two chefs. It was great. I was so proud of him. SPEAKER 1: So proud of your past, and it sounds like you're so proud of your future. PHYLLIS: Oh yeah, I've often said I want to be in the know. You know, when you look in the world today, you always have to be thankful for what you have because things could've been -- my parents had a good life, my father and mother, well, they worked hard. They worked very, very hard. SPEAKER 2: I'm putting my [unintelligible - 01:19:40] so don't worry about it. PHYLLIS: Okay dear. My children, they'll have a good life, because they married men who have good businesses, and they'll support them with a good life. So I can rest knowing that all my…/AT/pa/tf/es