Banda, La 1-1 Transcription

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Abstract

Part one of an interview with members of "La Banda" and others connected to the band.Topics include: Introductions to those present for the interview and a little information about their family histories. How the band was formed and why. Memories of learning to play instruments, being in the band, and receiving instruction. Family members, both past and present, that are also involved with music somehow, but not directly involved with La Banda. Examples of when and where La Banda performed. The evolution of the band name, from Banda Regione d'Italia to the Leominster Band. What the makeup of the band is now. Other local bands that members play in. ; 1 INTERVIEWER: Cindy Rosamund with the Center for Italian Culture. It's Wednesday, September 19th. We are at the home of Lucy and Mike Scaramuzzi in Leominster at 30 Elm Street. And we have invited people that are connected with, uh, the band from Leominster, La Banda – or at least it used it be called that. We have many people here gathered at Lucy and Mike's home. And at first I would like you to just introduce yourselves. If you could just tell me your name, when you were born, where you were born, and if you know when your parents came to this country. Okay. Yes. [Unintelligible - 00:00:44] Hold on. Oh you want to know… RESPONDENT: I think that they're in the hallway. INTERVIEWER: That's okay. You're a part of this discussion. And you're right. At first I thought I was coming here primarily to talk to people only in the band, but that's okay. I think all of you have some connection, if not with the band at least Leominster and that's what we're all about here. We're writing about the history of Leominster, particularly Italian-Americans. Okay? So first we'll start with you. RENA: Well, I'm Rena Bisceglia. And did you want – I forgot to say… INTERVIEWER: Oh that's okay. Just, um, introduce yourself, giving your entire name including your maiden name. RENA Okay. I'm… INTERVIEWER: If you would like to tell us when you were born, where and a little bit about your parents. RENA: Oh, I'm Rena Bisceglia, born here in Leominster September 16, 1922. And I'm married to Vincent Bisceglia and my father-in-law was Gaspare who started the Italian Colonial Band. And I am collecting um newspaper articles, whatever I can find of information to write down in a notebook. INTERVIEWER: Great.2 VINNIE: Oh yeah, I'm… my real name isn't what's put down in the birth certificate, which is [Regelio Vincenzo Bisceglia]. Because there were two Regelios, my cousin was named Regelio, I went by the name of Vincent. So I was ultimately known as Vincent Bisceglia. I was born in February 9, 1920 and my folks came over about 1909 I think. And they, my mother came over with her sisters and her uncle who's the chaperone to the four sisters. And the Bisceglia side tried to come over but they were stopped at Naples because my uncle had a little sty in his eye, so they wouldn't let the family come in. My grandfather had already been here. He was working in Connecticut somewhere, so they stayed in Naples; fortunately they had a relative there, Dorico, whom they stayed with. They stayed there six months until my grandfather went over and got them and brought them here. But can you imagine that a little sty in a kid's eye—and my uncle must have been around 9 or 10—and they stopped the whole family from coming over? [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: They came directly, well, they went to Connecticut and then they settled in Fitchburg? VINNIE: No, no my grandfather had been working in Connecticut, but then I think he moved to Leominster because there was an assortment of people from the old country to get a job with. This was known as a [unintelligible - 00:04:09] but my father's folks came in through Canada. And I think they stayed in Quebec for a number of months. In fact, they were thinking of settling in Quebec, but because they had so many relatives and friends here in Leominster, they finally came from Quebec here. INTERVIEWER: So which part… VINNIE: But they had a really roundabout route to here. INTERVIEWER: Right. Which part of Italy did they come from? VINNIE: San Giovanni, which is on the spur of the [unintelligible - 00:04:43] Antonio Gargano – the "spur of the boot." And it's, my 3 grandfather was born in Monte Saint'Angelo, which is a high mountain city, right on the spur of the boot. San Giovanni is a little lower down. They finally moved to San Giovanni. My grandfather was – besides being in La Banda in Italy under the direction of, he was famous at that time, Florante, who was a conductor of the local band. All the cities have bands in Italy. But he was a jeweler by trade. The whole family made jewelry and sold jewelry around the different towns. I remember one story my father told me. My grandfather was carrying his assortment of jewelry from Monte Saint-Angelo down to the seashore of Manfredonia, one of those seashore towns. And he was riding a donkey. Now my grandfather was pretty hefty, like a [unintelligible - 00:06:02] was, you know, good-sized height and very, very hefty. And he was riding the donkey, and the donkey was pretty smart. When my grandfather got on the donkey, he would walk right on the edge of the precipice. [Laughter] So my grandfather was afraid they would all topple down the precipice so he would get off the donkey. So when he got off, then the donkey would walk in a comfortable part. When he would get on again, he would walk on the precipice – pretty smart donkey. [Laughter] RENA: So he would get off. [Unintelligible - 00:06:42] making those trips and he went to live in San Giovanni and he married your grandmother. INTERVIEWER: Okay. So why don't we go to the next person and come back. ROLAND: Me. I'm Roland [Verson] and I was born 12-21-31 – December 21, 1931. I was from [unintelligible - 00:07:07] Italy. My father was from Foggia San Juan. VINNIE: San Juan. ROLAND: Provincia de Foggia, that's where the priest was from. Was it Pio?4 RENA: Father Pio. ROLAND: My mother was from Bisceglie, Italy – Bisceglie Bari, they call it. VINNIE: Yeah, we were there. ROLAND: You were there? VINNIE: I spent four days there when I was a kid in the summer. ROLAND: Oh yeah? VINNIE: Yeah, in [unintelligible - 00:07:49]. INTERVIEWER: Who traveled here to this country? Was it you? ROLAND: My father. INTERVIEWER: Your father. And what was his name? ROLAND: Michael [unintelligible - 00:08:00]. He, I think he was the first to come and then he sent for his mother and father and my… VINNIE: They all did it that way. INTERVIEWER: And they all come to Leominster first? ROLAND: Well, my mother was from Worcester when she came here. INTERVIEWER: And what was her name? ROLAND: Maria Misino. RENA: Misino, M-I-S-I-N-O. INTERVIEWER: Okay. ROLAND: All right. INTERVIEWER: Do you have a connection to the band? ROLAND: Oh yeah, boy, going on 50 years. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Well, I'll come back to you. Next. PELINO: My name is Pelino Masciongioli. I was October 15, 1939 in [unintelligible - 00:08:48], a province of Abruzzo in Italy. My mother and her family were here in the United States. My mother was born in Everett, Mass. in 1916. My maternal grandparents had come from Italy and they had their family, and in the early 20's they packed up and went back to Corfinio. My mother met my father, who was from Corfinio, and they got married in the late thirties. And then after the Second World War, my mother being 5 an American born citizen was allowed to come back into the country and bring me with her. We moved to Pennsylvania. That was in February 1949. In the fall of that year, my father and two younger sisters were able to join us in Pennsylvania. My father went to work in a coal mine. They had a lot of strikes at the time. We had other family here in Leominster and it was decided for the future of the family, and the children in particular, that we should move to Massachusetts, which we did, and both my folks worked in plastic factories and I was fortunate enough that they sent me to college. And moving to the United States, a younger brother was born in Pennsylvania and a younger sister was born in Leominster. It seems like every time my family moved [laughter] we got another member in the family. And I pretty much lived in Leominster since 1950. And all of the family is still in the area. INTERVIEWER: Now do you have a connection to the band? PELINO: No, I don't. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Let's go to the next… CHARLES: Charles Johns. I'm the oddball. I think I was the first non-Italian to join the Italian Colonial Band. I think I was about, I would say maybe age 12. I had been taking trumpet lessons from my [unintelligible - 00:10:59] old Fitchburg music store, and he decided to leave the area, so that night my father went looking around for somebody else to teach me and I ended up with John Bisceglia, who was Gaspare's brother. My mother was born in Canada and my father was born here in Leominster of English descent, so there's no Italian connection whatsoever. But my father got me started with lessons with John Bisceglia and after a little bit John suggested that I go down to their rehearsals at Lancaster Street School on Sundays and get some more experience. And I don't know, it must have been about two years and I was still wearing my Boy Scout uniform, they decided to let 6 me play in a band concert and I was playing [unintelligible - 00:12:11]. I can distinctly remember making a mistake that very first night and Gaspare looked at me like I could have crawled through the boards in the bandstand. But it's been quite an experience, quite a learning experience. I learned a lot from playing with them. INTERVIEWER: Okay, thank you. We'll go to Mike. MIKE: No, Lucy. INTERVIEWER: Lucy. Okay. LUCY: I am Lucy [unintelligible - 00:12:57]. I am Roland's sister. You just heard from him, so my information is the same as his. My only connection to the band is that my father was in it and I think he just about started out with Gaspare and I have about five uncles in it -- had five uncles in it and maybe two or three cousins besides my brother. INTERVIEWER: Tell me the names of your uncles. You said there were about five. LUCY: John [unintelligible - 00:13:27]. [Unintelligible - 00:13:34] that's Morris. Lorenzo Predicelli. [Francio Julius] was in it at one time. And I think Frank [unintelligible - 00:13:49] was in it at one time, wasn't he? I thought I saw him in one of the pictures. How many was that, four? INTERVIEWER: That's five. [Unintelligible - 00:14:05] SPEAKER: Frank Junior? LUCY: I thought I saw his picture. Maybe he wasn't. No. [unintelligible - 00:14:19] Then there was Joseph Predicelli who was in it too. RENA: Tommy? LUCY: Tommy Predicelli. We had more than our share. VINNIE: You had more than the Bisceglias. INTERVIEWER: Okay. LUCY: The five of those brought their children and… ROLAND: My father was the manager.7 INTERVIEWER: Your father? ROLAND: Yeah. Michael Predicelli. I was just a little kid. INTERVIEWER: Do you remember the year, approximately? Was it right from the beginning, 1920? ROLAND: No. It was actually – no, I just remember, when I was 10 or 11, he was the manager and he trained John Predicelli. Remember him? LUCY: I sure do. ROLAND: And he showed him the ropes. Then he took it over. INTERVIEWER: So some of the questions I ask may be repetitive and there are a few rules for that. One being there are a lot of people here and sometimes I'm concentrating on something else even though you just said something. I have to be honest. So why don't we first talk about why the band was formed in the first place. I have heard someone mention that it was a tradition in Italy? So… ROLAND: As I said, I think a while ago every town in Italy has its town band. So my grandfather was Capo Banda. He was sort of like a concert master or – not the conductor but like a concert master. And I remember, I think we have pictures, but I remember they took a picture in Italy with my grandfather, and my uncle and my father were little boys sitting down with him with their instruments. So actually when they came over here, there were three of them that were musicians. And then they just had music in their system so they, my father… Well, another thing, my father was an apprentice to this bandmaster. They didn't have copy machines in those days, so one of his jobs was to copy out all the parts for the band. So he told me that when he started out, he made quite a few mistakes, and of course the way they were taught in Europe—the way I was taught too—when you made a mistake you got banged around. [Laughter] So after a few times of that kind of treatment, you didn't make mistakes anymore. But I remember I got the same 8 treatment when made too many mistakes playing. My father would put the fiddle down and whack me. Of course, my cousins got the same treatment too. But one time he didn't put the fiddle down, he broke the bow. [Laughter] INTERVIEWER: Do you think that helped you learn? ROLAND: Well, made me hate it. I hated music until I was 50. But, you know, I did it because I had to do it and because I knew how to do it. RENA: Tell the story about the time you were practicing and you were reading comics. ROLAND: Oh, yeah, I was in the room. I had to practice three hours a day. So to while away the time, I would get some comic books and I was just doodling on the fiddle, you know, reading the comics and not paying any attention to the music. My father, he came in and said that sounds funny. He came through the door and he saw what I was doing, that I was reading the comic book. He put my fiddle down and whacked me. [Laughter] RENA: You couldn't fool him. ROLAND: No, I couldn't fool my father. RENA: He wasn't in the room but he knew… ROLAND: He was too savvy for that. INTERVIEWER: Charlie, did you .get that treatment when you were taking lessons with him? CHARLIE: No. No. He was very nice, very kind, but I'd be practicing and I'd get frustrated. He would go and take the trumpet, put it in the case, put it in the closet and not say another word. A couple of days later, I'd say where's my trumpet and he would go dig it out and I would get it back. But he played the smart play, I guess. I'll tell you when his father looked at me if I made a mistake—I'm telling you—it looked like daggers were flying. CHARLES: Oh yeah.9 LUCY: Mike has an expression your father used. Mike, are you here? MIKE: Yeah. LUCY: Mike was in the band for a little while, a short while. Mike, tell them about the time you made mistake with the [unintelligible - 00:19:55], remember? MIKE: I wasn't with them that long. LUCY: I know you weren't with them. But what would he say? He'd say, "Who made that [unintelligible - 00:20:06]?" MIKE: Oh, I remember. [Unintelligible - 00:20:08] INTERVIEWER: Can you tell me what that word means? [Unintelligible - 00:20:20] CHARLES: Yeah, bitter onions, bitter onions. INTERVIEWER: Mike, you need to introduce yourself, because when you deferred to Lucy, I thought you weren't connected to the band but now I have it, well you were. MIKE: I'm [unintelligible - 00:20:32]. INTERVIEWER: Well, that's okay. MIKE: [Unintelligible - 00:20:43] Lucy's husband connected to the band because I was a little kid. My father used to play in it, way back when I was a kid, so I became interested in it and when I was in junior high school, I took up the alto horn and was old enough to go down there to join the rehearsals, like Charlie said, with the Colonial Band, but I really wasn't that great. Just a few months and then I got too old for them and all that, or so I thought. But other than that… LUCY: He went to the Eagle Drum Corp because there were girls there. [Laughter] INTERVIEWER: Is that how he met you? LUCY: No.10 VINNIE: The Eagles was all men. There were a couple of twirlers. And Charlie was in there [unintelligible - 00:21:41]. We had the music that… INTERVIEWER: So you said your father was in the band? MIKE: He was, back when they first started. He started with the trombone. The trombone had the valve, like Lucy said, [unintelligible - 00:21:56]. I think he played baritone for a while and that's why I picked up the alto horn. INTERVIEWER: And what was his name? MIKE: [Unintelligible - 00:22:12] INTERVIEWER: And did he come to this country by himself or did he travel with someone? MIKE: I think he came from Italy alone, because he met my mother here in the States when they got married. LUCY: He was the only one from the family to come, right? MIKE: Right. [Unintelligible - 00:22:40] my mother came on [unintelligible - 00:22:44]. She was a [unintelligible - 00:22:51]. There were four of them that came. They met and they got married. INTERVIEWER: And what year did they come to this country? MIKE: 1912 or in that area. He was in the same village with Lucy's father. They were in the same town, Foggia. They both came from there and [unintelligible - 00:23:12] father also. They all came from Foggia. INTERVIEWER: And it was the same. At the beginning most of the members of the band were from Foggia, Italy? MIKE: Yeah. Most of them would have been. What I heard is they followed your father here because they don't have anything. [Laughter]11 CHARLIE: [Unintelligible - 00:23:44] they made a mistake by getting on a couple of [unintelligible - 00:23:43] it's pretty common, or after the war in Italy in 1946 or '47 in school, including a stick. CHARLES: That's how they taught us, with a stick. INTERVIEWER: How things have changed, huh? VINNIE: You can't touch them now. [Laughter] CHARLES: [Unintelligible - 00:24:00] I was taught the old way. The first thing you had in [unintelligible - 00:24:05] you were taught to read music. VINNIE: Oh yeah [unintelligible - 00:24:14]. CHARLES: I did that for a year before I got an instrument. And when I was taking my lesson, your father never knew that I couldn't understand or speak Italian. [Laughter] And I never told him. And I used to take my lesson and he used to swear up and down. And I could hear your mother would be in the kitchen and she would be sighing. She would be crocheting and sighing. It was funny because he used to swear at me for not knowing the lesson, but then in English, in broken English, he would tell me how good I was. [Laughter] LUCY: I can remember when my brother was taking lessons before he got his instrument, he would have to beat out the music. They had to go la-dah-dah-dah. CHARLIE: That's the solfeggio. VINNIE: Right. You sing the notes. LUCY: He would, sat up in bed one night in his sleep and he was doing this. CHARLES: My mother thought I was sick; I was going da-la-la-la-la-la. INTERVIEWER: So tell us more about that, how you learned music. Was that typical that…? VINNIE: Yeah. Solfeggio is reading the music by name. Like if you want to play the Star Spangled Banner, you go "fa-re-do-re-fa-ti, re-do-12 ti-la-re" you sing the notes and beat time. And that way you learn conducting at the same time and also following any conductor, but you've had your time pattern while you sang the notes. And even in the conservatory they taught us to memorize, say we had to memorize a concerto we would do it by solfeggio. Memorize the notes by name because – it's pretty tough at first but it helps to impress it on your memory. INTERVIEWER: How long before you got an instrument? VINNIE: A year. INTERVIEWER: A year? How… VINNIE: Well, we did it even after we would get the instrument. It's just the brain work instead of tactile. Then when you played it, you had the additional memory assist by the feel of the instrument, but this way, here, it's in your brain. You sing the notes and keep the time. INTERVIEWER: Who determined when you were ready to pick up an instrument? CHARLIE: Oh, he did. [Laughter] INTERVIEWER: The father? VINNIE: He determined when I quit. He sent me to the nuns, to St. Cecilia's. I must have been 4 or 5, really young, having no knowledge doing it. And I remember taking lessons with Sister Mary who was, she was related to the royalty in England but she was a convert to Catholicism. So she would teach me and I would spend most of my time looking at her headdress. There was a slit in one corner of it and I was always trying to see what kind of hair she had. She had a crew cut, I remember. They wouldn't show their hair at all. They just had the headdress. That was my favorite – looking at it while I took the lesson. CHARLIE: Your father, was he also in strings or just brass? VINNIE: No, they were all brass men. It was funny how he chose the violin for me. I guess that's what I mean. He was able to teach on that. I don't know. He never, he just sent me to the nuns and then when 13 Carluccio came to town, you know, Carluccio was [unintelligible - 00:28:37]. He had had quite a role in playing violin. LUCY: He studied in Milan. VINNIE: So he finally started teaching me. Carluccio did. I didn't stay long with the nuns. maybe three years, and then I went to Carluccio. CHARLIE: Now Vinnie Longo did the same thing, then he went to the nuns, and went to Carluccio. INTERVIEWER: Did Vinnie ever play with the band? VINNIE: Violin? No. Not that I know of. CHARLIE: He was connected to the school band. INTERVIEWER: So who determined which instrument you would play? SPEAKERS: Gaspare. INTERVIEWER: Did he have that much influence over other band members, let's say their sons? VINNIE: He did. Well, I think so because whenever they needed instruments, he would probably suggest. But he didn't suggest to me. He told me to do it. [Laughs] CHARLIE: You know your father was very precise. VINNIE: Oh yeah. CHARLIE: When he directed. The beat was always there. You could always see it. Well, I grew up with your father there conducting, so when I started to play with other conductors I had no idea what the hell they were doing – really. VINNIE: Yeah, a lot of them are ballet dancers. CHARLIE: I won't mention his name, but he conducts [Axis]. My sister liked [unintelligible - 00:30:22] so the only thing he does for me is make me hungry. He looks like he's whipping up pizza. [Laughter] VINNIE: Well, that was one of the criticisms of Toscanini because he was one of the greatest conductors, but a lot of wise guys said he's just 14 a time beater. Well, what else is a conductor but a time beater? If you can't keep time, go home. [Laughter] You will hear that from a lot of people who don't know music. You know, they look at the conductor and they say, "Do you really need that guy up there?" Well, of course. MIKE: Was it fairly common for the kids to be sent to the nuns? Did they provide that kind of service in the community? CHARLES: Yeah. VINNIE: That was something they all did, the nuns did was teach music. ROLAND: They did. CHARLES: You got to pay them. VINNIE: Oh, yeah – of course, you pay them. MIKE: It wasn't just one nun. There was a group of them that all provided lessons [unintelligible - 00:31:19] instruments. INTERVIEWER: Which instruments? Can you tell us which ones they could teach? VINNIE: Well, because I only knew that they taught violin, that is what I learned; my cousins here took the other lessons. CHARLES: Sister Mary. VINNIE: The same one? I would think it would be violin and piano. I don't think they were in to band instruments. CHARLES: Maybe flute or something. INTERVIEWER: Now, Vinnie, which instrument did you play in the band? VINNIE: Well, when I went to school, I think junior high – I didn't play in the band until I got to junior high. Then I joined, they had an old flute hanging around and doing nothing so they gave it to me to play. So I learned it and, of course, I had already been playing violin so it wasn't too long before I could play it. So when I started with the flute, I joined my father's band and played flute in the band. And in fact later on, I kept playing flute and piccolo. When I was in the Army, I played flute and piccolo in the marching band. That's what I did for four years.15 SPEAKER 1: I know why you played the piccolo. It was the lightest instrument to carry. [Laughter] VINNIE: Yeah, my father would razz me a lot because when I played in his band I played the flute. It's a bigger instrument. So when we were marching along, there would be kids following us so I would have some kid carrying my flute until it was time to play and then I would pick it up. And my father used to say you're lazy to even carry your flute. Speaking of laziness, I had to practice three hours a day by the clock and so it sounded like a long time to me. So I practice maybe half an hour, look at that clock. So I go to the kitchen clock and advance it 10 minutes. Then I would go practice some more, errrr, got another two hours to go. I'd go to the kitchen clock and advance it 10 minutes. I kept doing that until three hours went by. And the strangest thing, nobody ever said anything. My father and my mother, they never caught on or told me they caught on what I was doing, but every day that clock would be fixed. I would probably advance it about an hour. [Laughter] INTERVIEWER: Roland, how did you learn your instrument and which instrument did you play? ROLAND: I played the clarinet and saxophone from Vinnie's father. INTERVIEWER: So he gave lessons too? ROLAND: Yeah, I took lessons from him. INTERVIEWER: So you also learned music first for about a year? ROLAND: Yeah, and went through high school and went to the Navy School of Music when I was in the service. VINNIE: Oh you played in the marching band too, huh? ROLAND: Yeah. We had a [unintelligible - 00:34:57] Washington, D.C., the police that were out there, they would come for the school and they would get half a dozen guys from the school and take us to the armory and they gave us uniforms and we would play twice a week. Once on the Capitol steps we would play a concert, like we 16 do here, and then [unintelligible - 00:35:28] place where cherry blossoms. Captain says it's a good duty. He said, "Every time you play you get two days off in a week. So if you want to be a policeman, you come and see me." [Laughter] No, I didn't want to be a policeman. It was a lot of fun. I made two world cruises playing in the band. INTERVIEWER: Now tell me more about your father, Roland. He was in the band also? ROLAND: Yeah, and he was… INTERVIEWER: And did he learn an instrument probably much the same, in the same way that you did? VINNIE: I don't know. It's possible my father and uncle [unintelligible - 00:36:15], you know, to play in the band when they [unintelligible - 00:36:20]. ROLAND: I think that's what happened. LUCY: We have a feeling all those who [unintelligible - 00:36:21] were born with these instruments in their hands. INTERVIEWER: But do you know if your father was in the band in Italy? ROLAND: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: He was. And what instrument did he play? ROLAND: He played trombone. In fact, he was in the Army for about three months, I guess, he was playing in the band. INTERVIEWER: Do either of you know if the traditions goes beyond that, for example your grandfathers? ROLAND: Yeah, my grandfather was a baritone player. VINNIE: Yeah, my grandfather was too. They were all brass men. RENA: Your grandfather played in America with your father. VINNIE: Oh yeah, he was part of the original band, my grandfather was. ROLAND: I got a story about your father. He used to go mushrooming in the war. And one day, we were just kids, [unintelligible - 00:37:20] and I, and someone else, I forget who, and your father was picking 17 up mushrooms, and all of the sudden he stood up and he smiled. And he always used to carry a little notebook in his shirt pocket and pencil, and all the sudden he took it out and he started writing like crazy. He heard this bird chirping and he wrote a tune out of it. VINNIE: Yeah, I know all about that. INTERVIEWER: Now, Vinnie, you said your grandfather actually played in this country. Maybe I missed something… VINNIE: He played with my father's band. INTERVIEWER: Your father's band here. VINNIE: But he also, he belonged to the band originally in Italy. INTERVIEWER: Did your grandfather live in Leominster? VINNIE: Oh yeah. INTERVIEWER: Did he move here? VINNIE: He started off in Connecticut then he moved to Leominster and then he brought his family here to Leominster. INTERVIEWER: Okay. ROLAND: So your father started a band and recruited his father to play? VINNIE: Yeah. I guess his father probably yelled at him. [Unintelligible - 00:38:39] RENA: He first came to this country alone. VINNIE: Yeah. RENA: And he was here for a while and someone wrote back to Italy that he was becoming very skinny, as your Aunt Grace put it, and so your grandmother got very alarmed about it and asked him about it. And she wanted him to send back a photo so she could see what he looked like. But he didn't have the money for a photo. So he drew… he stood in front of the mirror and drew a picture of himself and mailed it back to her so she could see what he looked like. [Laughter] And then after a year or so, I guess he went over there and came back with the whole family. 18 INTERVIEWER: Do you have any stories of perhaps a great-grandfather playing an instrument? VINNIE: No, I don't go back that far. I know my grandfather, but that's it. INTERVIEWER: Now do you want to talk about the great-grandfather who had the 20 children? VINNIE: Oh. [Laughter] When I was growing up, folks would tell me about my grandfather was one of 17 children. RENA: Now he's talking about the one we just talked about, Vincenzo. VINNIE: And I always took it with a grain salt, the 17 children. And they said that a couple of them were shot by bandits, so they always said, you know, fantastic number of children. So one time, just before he died, I asked Frank [Jethro] who grew up in that town. I said, "Hey, tell me the truth Frank, there weren't 17 children." He said, "No, no, no – there was 24." [Laughter] So there must have been some truth in this, but they're all scattered around the country. Some in Kansas City, Missouri, some in… RENA: They're probably… VINNIE: Arkansas, some in New York City. Let's see… RENA: A lot of them are optometrists and one of them got to be a Protestant minister in Kansas City and there's an Italian cultural center in his name in Kansas City. VINNIE: John Bisceglia. He had the same name as my uncle – Presbyterian minister. RENA: Well, they were befriended by this church when they came to this country and so they just turned around and went with them. Then there were others that were goldsmiths. VINNIE: Jewelers. RENA: Jewelers, goldsmiths, and optometrists. One of them wrote to Tony. I have a letter that he wrote to Tony, and Charles was his name, so it was the next generation. They sent all the kids to school. 19 ROLAND: Tony played in the band too. RENA: Yeah, he played clarinet. SPEAKER: Is he [unintelligible - 00:41:54]? RENA: Of course. VINNIE: And there was a Steve Bisceglia that was a football player I saw somewhere. I remember seeing his name somewhere. I remember seeing his name. He played for like Alabama? INTERVIEWER: University of Alabama. VINNIE: A few years back, he was playing for them. He was a well-known football player. He was one of those from that game… RENA: I saw it on television. I couldn't believe my eyes because my [uncle] is called Steve and he was about the same age. He was at the Naval Academy at the same time that this boy was in Alabama and I saw Steve Bisceglia #44 on the back of his shirt and he was playing football. So I had Kathy write him a letter and it developed that he is of the Bisceglia wine family in Fresno, California. VINNIE: Oh yeah, we went there once. RENA: So he invited my Steve to go visit him. He said, "We will compare and see if we use the same toothpaste." [Laughter] INTERVIEWER: Roland, tell me about your grandfather. Do you know if he played an instrument? ROLAND: Yes. He played baritone, brass instruments, but it wasn't long before I was alive. I knew your father knew him. VINNIE: Oh he knew your grandfather? INTERVIEWER: And what was your grandfather's name? ROLAND: Joseph, Josepe Nicole [Franson] – Joseph Nicholas Franison]. INTERVIEWER: Now did he live in Leominster? ROLAND: Yes. INTERVIEWER: Okay. 20 LUCY: Now, [my brother] I think has an interesting story. He played a duet with Franklin. Didn't you? Didn't you play with your grandson at a band contest? So, that would be my grandfather, my father, [Roly] and Roly's grandson. INTERVIEWER: That's where I was going. MIKE: You're remembering middle school. INTERVIEWER: So do any of you have brothers that also played in the band? ROLAND: I didn't have any brothers. INTERVIEWER: You don't have any brothers? ROLAND: Two sisters. I had cousins. [Unintelligible - 00:44:20] INTERVIEWER: But if you had brothers, they would be expected to play in the band? VINNIE: Oh yeah, they all took a turn. Tony played too. ROLAND: Everybody did. LUCY: Now, of course, the Piermarini family, Cleto was the father, and all of his sons, Alfonz, Carl, Stephen and even Paul. Did Clyde ever play? ROLAND: I think Clyde was a piano player. VINNIE: Yeah, in Las Vegas. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Now, Vinni, you mentioned that you really hated music until you were about 50. VINNIE: Oh yeah. INTERVIEWER: You [unintelligible - 00:44:58]. Tell me a little bit about that. Was that you didn't want to let your father down, the community down – what was it? VINNIE: Well, uh… ROLAND: He didn't want to get whacked. [Laughter] VINNIE: No, it was just something I had to do. I accepted it. Didn't like it but I accepted it and I did the best I could. Of course, it's not good in a way because you only do it when you're pressured to do it. Even now I won't practice until I have to play somewhere and I 21 have to get ready, and that threat makes me, pushes me to practice. But I never practiced until, unless I was forced. LUCY: You were a music teacher in Fitchburg. Wasn't music the way you earned your living? VINNIE: Oh yeah, but I didn't operate the same way as my folks did. In fact, maybe I went the opposite way. I never pushed any kid, in fact, not on my kids. I never pushed them into music. They all like it and they all dabbled in it but I never pushed one of them because I remembered, you know. I never pushed them. RENA: May I interrupt and say that now you love it? VINNIE: Oh I like music, hell, yeah. RENA: And you found out that you… VINNIE: Since I was… RENA: Really, really love it. VINNIE: I thank my father. RENA: He did you a favor. VINNIE: For doing me a favor, right? INTERVIEWER: Do you regret that you didn't push your own children, now that you have a love for it? VINNIE: Sometimes I regret it. RENA: But he did, we did sent one of them to U. Mass and he majored in oboe. That was an instrument he wanted to play. But Vinnie tried it for two years and gave it up because he realized it just was not for him. [Laughter] He went into business and he had been CEO of all the companies and live onto and he has done fabulously well in business. So he just realized that even though he had the opportunity to be a musician that it wasn't for him. But his son is at B.U. and he is majoring in music. So this is, his grandson is majoring in music. INTERVIEWER: So the tradition continues. Didn't you feel pressure from your father to teach your children?22 VINNIE: No, just the opposite. I didn't want any kid to go through what I… INTERVIEWER: No, what I'm saying is, didn't your father give you pressure to teach your children… his grandchildren? VINNIE: No, well he had passed on by that time. But speaking of children playing music, I know one time there was something going on at St. Anne's, the band played and then we went inside and they had a little program with kids and my son Steve and another kid—I won't mention names because they might be embarrassed—but they had to play a number. My Steve was about 12 or 13, and the other kid was about the same age. They were pals. One played the piano and Steve played the violin. So they played this number and it sounded great. And all of the sudden, the piano player, they were about three-quarters through, he just discovered that his music was upside down. [Laughter] So he quickly turned it right side up but you never knew it because the kid sounded great. I'll never forget that. RENA: He was a pro from the beginning. VINNIE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: [Unintelligible - 00:49:24] LUCY: Vinnie, did your father finally find out that you loved music or had he passed on by that time? RENA: First, did he know you didn't like it? INTERVIEWER: Did he know that you didn't care for it? VINNIE: I never told him, no. I never told him I didn't like it. ROLAND: How old were you when you played with the San Antonio Symphony? VINNIE: Well, that was after the service. Wherever I was stationed I would play with the local symphony. I was Bangor and played with the Bangor Symphony. ROLAND: I thought you were there permanently.23 VINNIE: Went to Oklahoma and I played with the Oklahoma Symphony. But when the conductor at the Oklahoma became conductor of the San Antonio, the war was over, so then I went back as a civilian and played a couple of years with the San Antonio under the same conductor. ROLAND: Rena, tell your story about Vinnie, when he [unintelligible - 00:50:36]. I used to take my lessons on Saturday afternoon in Vinnie's living room. And I was taking my lesson and all of a sudden the phone rang and Vinnie's mother went to answer and was talking to Vinnie and then she says, "He wants to talk to you," talking to her husband, Vinnie's father. Vinnie was in New York, I guess – and you had joined the Navy without calling your folks. VINNIE: Oh yeah. ROLAND: So [unintelligible - 00:51:18]. VINNIE: You heard that? ROLAND: Yeah, I was taking my lesson. I was right there. RENA: Oh dear me. ROLAND: Your father used to sit at one of the dining room chairs and I had to stand up before he comes out breathing fire. So I'm standing there and I remember your father saying, "Well, you signed the papers; it's too late now. Be a good boy." [Laughter] VINNIE: I didn't know that. RENA: [Unintelligible - 00:51:54] I visited you in the barraks and he was saluting and everybody… VINNIE: Oh yeah. I was playing in Bangor, Maine, in the band, and they came up to visit me once here and of course everybody salutes anybody else. So he was starting to salute everybody, following the band. [Laughter] INTERVIEWER: So when the band was formed in Leominster, how – did you ever get the story of exactly how that happened? I understand that they, these people played instruments, they were carrying over the 24 tradition from Italy. But when was the decision made to gather together and create a band for the Italian community? VINNIE: Well, I guess my father was the one that decided right along, or actually with his father when he was an apprentice to this conductor in Italy, so it was his desire of being in band music. So I guess they had a few players that had played in bands overseas so he got them together. I think it was only 16. ROLAND: Yeah. That's what I already thought was all these musicians out there, they just got together here and started playing. RENA: Yeah. VINNIE: There were enough of them to start a band so they had this tradition of band playing… ROLAND: Then they grew as time went along. INTERVIEWER: When they created the band, was it to play for the Italian community? VINNIE: Well, initially I guess it was to play for the functions of the Italian community. INTERVIEWER: Give me some examples of when and where they played, when you were a youngster. VINNIE: They used to play up at St. Anthony's in Fitchburg, some religious feast of some kind; they had a procession with [unintelligible - 00:54:06] and people would pin money on a statute, on a flag, and we would march all the way up to St. Anthony's Church and back there, and then they would have a concert and then usually fireworks after the concert. But that was difficult. It had these religious processions. ROLAND: Did that in Boston too. VINNIE: It was in Boston, right? RENA: Worcester. ROLAND: We played in Worcester. INTERVIEWER: So the band played in Boston also for…25 VINNIE: Yeah, they went there [unintelligible - 00:54:46]. CHARLIE: Did they play in Worcester for the second time…? ROLAND: Plus the time we played in Boston, we played in the Worcester in the morning and got on a bus and went to Boston RENA: I remember one article they played in Rutland for veterans who were disabled and couldn't get out to see a concert, so they would go there where they were. And they were so appreciative. That was a nice -- Rutland, Vermont actually. INTERVIEWER: Vermont. CHARLES: When I started taking trumpet lessons from his Uncle John, my mother was working at Santa [Cloth Works]. VINNIE: Oh, yeah. My father and mother worked there. CHARLES: My mother knew of the association between John and Gaspare and she kept saying every so often, "[Unintelligible - 00:55:46] no music; you go around singing operas." I was working with John. When I started playing, I was still in school and I've got a severe narrow upper palate and this dentist wanted to take and pull some teeth out to see if he couldn't flatten it and I would say, "No way! I play trumpet, so leave my teeth alone." He said, "Well, we'll take one out in the back on this side and one out in the back on this side, and we'll see what happens." I was also playing some dance work occasionally and I was playing, like Vinnie said – oh, I can't say. Well, I got into the band; it was almost every other week during the summer I had to [unintelligible - 00:56:51], went up to Fitchburg, and by Sunday night I could take my front teeth and push them back and forth; they were actually loose. And actually I was just taking out the two lower teeth; my teeth was actually pushed back just from playing all that time. VINNIE: Really? INTERVIEWER: Now at the beginning of this interview today, you had mentioned that when you got frustrated with the trumpet –26 CHARLES: Practicing. INTERVIEWER: That your mother would just put it away. CHARLES: She would get mad. Well, she would get mad and say, "That's enough," put it in the case, close the case up, and put it in the closet. INTERVIEWER: It sounds like you had a different experience than Vinnie. CHARLES: Nobody ever slapped me around. I slapped myself around. [Laughs] INTERVIEWER: I didn't quite mean that, but did you feel as much pressure? Was anyone looking to you to join a band? CHARLES: No, no. When I was in school, I was in the band at school and then, like I say, John was giving me lessons and he said, well – and I was there and everybody was kind of [fumbling], "Well, why don't you start coming down to the rehearsals on Sundays down at [unintelligible - 00:58:05] school?" Okay. When I went down there, I was so frustrated when I left that first day. None of the music was trumpets. Everything was manuscript. You put this thing out past and started to play and I don't think will [unintelligible - 00:58:30] I didn't have a clue as to where I was. I sat down. But after a while, I kept on it and… VINNIE: Yeah, I remember when Charlie – because he was so small, his feet wouldn't touch the floor; they would just dangle over the edge. Of course, now he's a big six-footer. But I can remember him rehearsing and I would see everybody else kind of growing up, and there's Charlie; he's just barely over the edge of the chair and playing his trumpet – probably one of the youngest to ever get into the band. ROLAND: They remember Charlie as the band was growing and they were trying to bring in good musicians. And the only good ones were the kids. Charlie Johns, [unintelligible - 00:59:13] and that's when the band started picking up.27 CHARLES: If I had one thing to say that I was sorry about, as far as belonging to the Leominster Colonial Band, it's, typical stupid young kid, I never learned the language. I had a golden opportunity to learn. But one thing that used to get to me was, for some reason, something would go wrong and his father would start after somebody and they were going back and forth in Italian and I didn't have a clue what was going on, but I always thought it's my fault [unintelligible - 01:00:03]. [Laughter] INTERVIEWER: So I take… I'm sorry. SPEAKER 2: As far as the tradition of playing on feast days, you know, because most towns in Italy had patron saints, you know, as a church, so that was a fairly common occurrence and you could go from town to town playing in feasts. But some of these social clubs that we started here, you know, like my folks belonged to the [Cofigno] Club. CHARLIE: Sons of Italy. SPEAKER 2: Okay, Sons of Italy, you know, Faggio Club, [Salodini], I imagine that, as I remember, they used to have dinners on occasion and dances. And so, the local bands would've been called on to come in. CHARLIE: Oh yeah. SPEAKER 2: And play on a lot of those functions. Another way for people in the regions to get together, you know, they had common interests and backgrounds. SPEAKER 1: Oh great. SPEAKER 2: And we'd socialize. CHARLIE: I think it's a shame that that has gone by the books today, because a lot of the young people are never going to get to experience some of those things. INTERVIEWER: Are you talking about the social clubs or are you talking about the band?28 CHARLIE: No. Well, mainly the social clubs, but the bands – what Vinnie said, we used to go out… sometimes we'd play on a Friday night, then we'd go out on Saturday night, play another concert, [unintelligible - 1:01:25] on a Sunday; you'd march the society to church and then, God knows, we walked all over the water skirt barrier on a Sunday afternoon. SPEAKER 2: Oh yeah. CHARLIE: Went to [unintelligible - 1:01:37] and people will never get to see that anymore. It doesn't exist, except in Boston; you've got to learn to look down there. SPEAKER 2: They kept up the traditions better there. CHARLIE: Yeah. RENA: If I'm not mistaken, all those social clubs had a patron saint. CHARLIE: Right. RENA: And they would celebrate the feast of that saint by having a concert and dinners and so forth. VINNIE: They'd have a procession receiving everything. INTERVIEWER: Was the band paid a fee for performing? VINNIE: Oh yeah, oh yeah. They get paid the union dues, once we all joined the union, yeah. And they added up all the costs and that's how they charged the different societies. RENA: They joined the union in 1956, so before that? CHARLES: Well, they still got paid before '56. INTERVIEWER: By the Sons of Italy? CHARLIE: Because I went out to St. Louis in '53 and I was already in the union because I played out there a couple times. INTERVIEWER: You were in the union earlier? CHARLIE: '53, I think, I took the band out there in about '53 – because I was still in high school. When I got out of high school, then I transferred my union membership out there. RENA: Maybe the whole band wasn't in until a few years later.29 CHARLIE: I think the last time I played before I went out to St. Louis we had just joined the union then and played a concert in Barry. ROLAND: Before that, the city used to pay us. CHARLIE: Oh yeah, that's right, the city. ROLAND: And the pass was 3 dollars. [Laughter] RENA: I know, I know. [Laughs] ROLAND: And if you were just a kid, like Charlie and I were back then… CHARLIE: A buck-fifty. ROLAND: You got half price, a dollar fifty. [Laughter] CHARLIE: I remember when I put [unintelligible - 1:03:57]. RENA: And you rehearsed free of charge. CHARLIE: And the dagger looks when you made a mistake. [Laughter] VINNIE: His father could cut you off without touching you. He didn't have to slap you on the side of the head. CHARLIE: Well, I remember the first memory I had of the band; I was about 3 years old. My father used to take me to the band rehearsals. Now he would go to either Phillip [Carecci's house or my grandfather's house. But they didn't have a setup with stands or chairs. They all stood up. And, you know, they'd read out their lines. So it was just… quite a lack of room, out of the whole band, everybody's standing up. I was just barely 3, so I didn't know what to do with myself. So I see all these legs there, so I'm going under their legs like bridges; I'm going under this musician's legs and out the other one. I guess I kept it up too long, because my father stopped bringing me to the rehearsals. [Laughter] INTERVIEWER: How often did they rehearse? CHARLIE: How long? INTERVIEWER: How often? How many times? ROLAND: Oh once a week. INTERVIEWER: Once a week? ROLAND: Oh yeah that was set; every week there'd be a rehearsal. 30 CHARLIE: What was it, Sunday? ROLAND: Sunday morning. CHARLIE: Sunday morning, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Sunday morning? CHARLIE: I guess this [unintelligible - 01:05:27], down in the basement. RENA: And all the neighborhood kids would peer through the windows and watch. I remember going there. INTERVIEWER: So was it prestigious belonging to the band? VINNIE: Was there a procedure? INTERVIEWER: No prestigious. ROLAND: It was an honor. INTERVIEWER: Was it an honor? VINNIE: Oh yeah. I would guess. CHARLIE: I always considered it an honor, especially when I was the first one who couldn't speak the language. VINNIE: Until it was time to practice. [Laughter] CHARLIE: Yeah. SPEAKER 2: Everybody's seeing that a little kid in the Italian band. CHARLIE: Yeah, in the Boy Scout uniform. INTERVIEWER: So Charlie, when did you join the band? CHARLIE: I'd say it would have to be… oh, I'd say the late 40s. INTERVIEWER: And prior to that, there weren't any non-Italians? CHARLIE: Not that I know of. INTERVIEWER: And why was that? ROLAND: Well, it was an Italian band. It used to be made up of fathers and sons, you know, they came from Italy. It was the Leominster Italian Colonial Band. CHARLIE: Right. ROLAND: So then when Charlie came in, we had to change the name. [Laughter] No, [unintelligible - 1:06:47].31 INTERVIEWER: Now getting to the name change, are you saying that in jest? When it was no longer just Italians, is that when the name changed? VINNIE: Yeah. CHARLIE: Yeah. They started to get different, you know, out of the city there were very few. VINNIE: As the groups came in, so they decided to change it to just Leominster Band. CHARLIE: I can remember one time when they were playing, practicing, Roland was in there then, and something went wrong and then they got into a big feud about something. And Nicholas' father walked over behind him, standing right behind him and he's calling a mile a minute, and all of a sudden Roland reaches in his pocket, pulls out his handkerchief and puts it on the top of his head. [Laughter] I'd just sit there and I didn't have a clue as to what was going on. INTERVIEWER: Well, the band changed its name in about 1953? CHARLIE: No, I think it was later than that. RENA: Probably when they went on union – in 1956? But they made two changes: 1910 originally they were Banda Regione d'Italia, in honor of the people who backed them. And then the second time was 1916, I think, when they became Italian Colonial Band. INTERVIEWER: Was it the Italian or the Italian-American Colonial Band? RENA: I always heard of it as the Italian Colonial Band. VINNIE: Italian Colonial. RENA: Because it was still completely… VINNIE: Mostly Italian, yeah. RENA: And then in '53. VINNIE: They dropped the "Italian." RENA: Leominster Colonial Band. INTERVIEWER: Okay. Now why was the word "Colonial" chosen? Does anyone know?32 RENA: Because they were a colony of the Italians in the beginning, right? ROLAND: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: Because it was a colony? VINNIE: An Italian colony in Leominster. INTERVIEWER: Okay. And who chose the name? Did a group of people get together and talk about it or…? ROLAND: I don't know. Maybe the sponsoring group – who was it? Regione d'Italia was the sponsoring group? RENA: I have no idea about that. VINNIE: It just grew up that way. INTERVIEWER: Could it be your father did that too? VINNIE: Yeah. I think it was just common usage you know. RENA: You know, one thing I haven't found out yet is they had women come in. When did that happen? Who was it that was first in… is a girl? VINNIE: That was late [unintelligible - 1:09:40]. INTERVIEWER: Was she Italian? ROLAND: There were always men you know, that played in the thing way back then. RENA: But I think it was when you started; you started letting the girls come in. [Laughter] CHARLIE: Well, why not? INTERVIEWER: Did a woman approach you and want to join the band? CHARLIE: No, it just grew up that way. The kids at school were learning instruments and the girls were too. So then when you needed an instrument, a particular instrument, like a lot of the flute players. Yeah, some of my students that I taught flute now play in [unintelligible - 1:10:24] she played flute in the band. You know, [unintelligible - 1:10:32], I taught them flute. So when they needed flute players, you know, the girls could play flute, so they 33 came in. There was no specific move to put women in or include women; it just grew that way. ROLAND: Wasn't it that their high school and… they could play so then they decided to get in? CHARLIE: Yeah, they started playing… the girls started playing in high school, so then they… RENA: It's interesting that up to a point it was all male. CHARLIE: Yeah, it was originally, yeah. RENA: It's nice to see some girls join. ROLAND: Some of them, a lot of them are music teachers; they teach in a public school. CHARLIE: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: That are now members of the band? VINNIE: Oh yeah a lot of women in the band now. RENA: Yeah. INTERVIEWER: How many members are in the band now? CHARLIE: It usually is around 30. Isn't that about the number they use now? ROLAND: About 30, yeah. INTERVIEWER: Now is that typical? Is that how many there were when you were younger? RENA: No. CHARLIE: Probably a little smaller. INTERVIEWER: Smaller? CHARLIE: Probably around 20-something, or 28, 26 maybe. ROLAND: I noticed when I was a kid they used to have three tubas, and you know, probably the tradition of just-male membership came from Italy. CHARLIE: Oh yeah. ROLAND: And that tradition was carried over. And I would guess that the term "Colonial Band" is probably their attempt at translating to join, the Banda Regione d'Italia. Okay? Try to translate that to an 34 American, probably the word Colonial was placed in there to refer to the "Regione" which means region. RENA: Region. Yeah, that sounds possible. CHARLIE: Oh I've got to tell this story before we forget it. We were just a little small town band but there was one time we made the national news, all over the country. And I won't mention his name, please don't say it because he feels embarrassed. But we were marching to the center of Leominster… ROLAND: Oh, yeah. CHARLIE: You remember that? And from Evergreen Cemetery marching in Leominster, we'd take a right on West Street. Well, there was a player on the extreme left front end and we took the turn on West Street, but he was so engrossed in his music, he kept walking straight [laughter] towards Pleasant Street and he didn't notice until he was almost up to Pleasant Street. He turned around, there was no band there. [Laughter] He went all the way back and somebody had taped the whole thing and they sent it in to some news channel and they put it on television. That was the only time we ever made the national news. [Laughter] INTERVIEWER: If they taped it, it had to be pretty recent, right? CHARLIE: Well, it was quite recent. You guys remember. But he always felt so bad about it that I won't mention his name. But he made a statement. INTERVIEWER: About what year was that? Do you know? ROLAND: It would've been after the war, I would imagine. CHARLIE: Oh about 8 years ago, rather recent. ROLAND: Oh recent? CHARLIE: It was rather recent. ROLAND: You think so? INTERVIEWER: So it's kind of someone – home movie collection? CHARLIE: Somebody's got the tape.35 RENA: What is the program where they put on several funny ads and then people vote? INTERVIEWER: America's Funniest Home Video or something. RENA: Home videos. CHARLIE: I want to see that. RENA: Somebody should enter it in to that program. Did he know that that was sent in? CHARLIE: Well, he found out eventually. [Laughter] He always gets up and he gets mad when he hears about it. ROLAND: Actually, somebody asked him if they could do it on that home video TV program. And he said, "Well, you can but don't mention my name." It was funny because what the band would do is every year they would take a luck coming out of a mechanic strike. And then that was way back when they had the wooden bandstand and it was right in the middle of town. So you automatically figured you're going to take a left. This year, they decided they were going to march up by… RENA: West Street by the common. ROLAND: Yeah, where the city hall parking lot is. RENA: Yeah. ROLAND: And what he did, he automatically went to the left because they used to give their speeches and everything. And that was great. INTERVIEWER: Now there was a band in Fitchburg also, and that disbanded. So did some of those members come over to Leominster? CHARLIE: Well, they still have a band in Fitchburg. ROLAND: Yeah, I play with them; Charlie and I play with them. CHARLIE: Yeah, Fitchburg Military Band. INTERVIEWER: All right, so was there an Italian band in Fitchburg? VINNIE: Not specifically. Probably most of the same musicians played in that band too. Like how many – are there more than you two that play in the Fitchburg's Military from Leominster?36 ROLAND: There's Gene. VINNIE: Gene? CHARLIE: Yeah. ROLAND: And most of the brass players. CHARLIE: Yeah, there's a lot of exchange between town bands. VINNIE: John used to be in it? CHARLIE: Oh yeah, they used to play in the Townsend Band. My father played in the Townsend band. They all shared the bands around here. ROLAND: On Memorial Day we would play in the morning, and then in the afternoon we used to play in Greenfield. And it was all hills. And we remember once we did the same thing; we were going up this tall one, and I don't know if Charlie remembers, but Roger Pascarelli, he was, they used to put the clarinets up front. CHARLIE: Yeah, yeah. ROLAND: And he was on one end, and I forgot – John Pacceli was on the other end, and we were marching and we came to this fork. And the first time we played, we didn't know where we were going. And it was funny it was like somebody split the band up. [Laughter] And there were two guys there, engrossed in their music and they were going this way, and the other guys were going that way. Remember that, Charlie? CHARLIE: Yep. ROLAND: [Unintelligible - 1:18:14] road you're taking, right? RENA: You go that way. INTERVIEWER: So when did – did the music change over time, the repertoire of the band? ROLAND: Yeah it did. Because in those days, the music was really heavy; it was quite long and everything, you know.37 VINNIE: Yeah, there were a lot of operatic excerpts played by the band. Now they have regular concert band music, you know, worldwide. But in those days, it was mostly operatic excerpts. ROLAND: Manuscript. VINNIE: Arranged for the band. RENA: And some of the music is about 200 years old and it is still played by this band, although they do play the modern as well. But as I think I read in one of the articles, it's like preserving a museum piece in the museum and they have preserved this music. They still have it; they have the music and they can play it if they want to. But now they're beginning to play more and more of the show tunes. INTERVIEWER: Now I was wondering, are there any bylaws or something that tries to preserve the culture of the band, for example, the 200-year-old music? Is there something in place that will hopefully keep this music alive for generations to come? CHARLIE: Well, just in the light read…/AT/jf/kg/ee